(07-11-2013 09:13 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 12:18 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 04:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 11:40 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(07-08-2013 11:14 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  I have to stray from the Kansas choice. They aren't a very good football program. Maybe you are looking at it from a different angle.

Some options:

The state of Oklahoma is southern and OU would be a good cultural fit. Oklahoma also belongs in a conference with Alabama. An elite program that would be a great addition to the already elite conference. A border war with Arkansas would be epic.

Oklahoma State would probably have to come along. Their academics would be an issue. Another great rival for Arkansas

Texas. Sooner or later the SEC is going to have to lure Texas or the Pac 12 will. Snagging a team like Oklahoma might start that process. They are stubborn and want to run the show.

Miami to expand into the south Florida Market. Cons. Violation prone.

North Carolina. Cultural fit and expansion into the Atlantic coast market

I do agree with your points about the PAC 12. Eventually they have to deal with the Big XII schools. They have no other options that meets their requirements. If the SEC doesn't grab a couple, the PAC 12 or B1G will. I do not believe the Sooners fit the PAC 12 liberal culture. I also believe their goal is not to play Northern schools all year, every year. The only upside is playing their old rival Nebraska again. I still believe they would be a natural fit for the SEC.

They would have their game against Nebraska. They would maintain ties to Kansas. The Head Coaches of Oklahoma and Iowa have history together as was talked about constantly for their Bowl Game.

The Admin of Oklahoma would absolutely push Oklahoma towards the Big Ten instead of the SEC. They would probably face some blowback on that from fans and some alumni but so did President Loh of Maryland. As long as Oklahoma can maintain it's key rivalries of Texas and Oklahoma State, then it would be just fine.

They most certainly would have a better chance to win or finish strongly in the Big Ten and the Big Ten will Never be cut out of the National Picture. Oklahoma could definitely take advantage of that.

Sure there might be some fan support for an SEC move instead but there is no way that the persons making the decisions would choose the SEC over the B1G, in my opinion.

Their mistake. Okie in the B1G is the true fish out of water.....

I disagree. How would Oklahoma be a fish out of water with the likes of Kansas and Nebraska? Norman isn't all that far from Texas. It will still have a huge program and will still get plenty of Texas recruits. Oklahoma will still have a strong shot at any National Tournament in the Big Ten if they have a strong season.

I understand the talk about how Nebraska in the Big Ten may hurt some of their Texas recruiting and such but there is a very considerable geographic difference between Lincoln Nebraska and Norman Oklahoma.

I know this is the SEC Board so I am trying to be as nice about it as possible but Oklahoma would be just fine in the Big Ten. They could be just fine in the SEC too but how do you think they will do in the SEC, truthfully?

It's very unlikely that OU would end up in the Big. For one the Big would never take Oklahoma State and that is a guaranteed pair for any conference interested in OU.

Recruiting would take a major hit. Texas A&M got a big recruiting boost going to the SEC. But that’s the SEC, and the Aggies are based in Texas. OU’s Texas pipeline would be crippled. No games in Texas would be tough, and yes, that means OU-Texas would be endangered; if the Longhorns cut the cord with the Aggies, you don’t think the ‘Horns would cut the cord with the Sooners?

(07-12-2013 12:31 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Ugh. I have zero interest in conference games all the way in Texas. That's a solid 16 hours drive from the nearest ACC member. If I had my druthers, I'd constitute the ACC as:

ACC Atlantic South:
Miami
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson

ACC Atlantic North:
North Carolina
NC State
Virginia Tech
Duke

ACC Coastal South:
Virginia
Maryland
Cincinnati
Louisville

ACC Coastal North:
Syracuse
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Boston College

Well since Maryland is gone with a high degree of probability would you replace them with West Virginia and still add Cincinnati?

(07-12-2013 11:06 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(07-12-2013 10:23 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  6 team Texoma deal? Who besides them and OU/OSU/TTU?

(I hadn't heard this latest rumor)

I hadn't heard that, either, but I assume it would be Baylor and TCU to gain their votes for Big 12 dissolution. They are not going to dissolve unless they are going to a better situation.

That's the general idea. They feel that the number gives them essentially a divisional play that is part of the Old SWC plus the Oklahoma schools. There is some feeling that the SEC would certainly split the market with Texas in their state (Texas fans thinking here) should either Baylor or T.C.U. or Oklahoma wind up in the SEC. Any of those would likely give the DFW market as solidly to the SEC as it presently is with Texas (although A&M gives us a good bit of that market anyway along with L.S.U. and some Arkansas). The Horns are afraid that A&M could turn Texas into an SEC state only in their way of thinking it would take one more Texas school to do it (or Oklahoma). I think they believe that they can sell the whole state of Texas market idea to Larry Scott. We'll see.

What I think it boils down to is that they want to have 5 games against their old buddies and split travel for 4 games on the West coast (Colorado & Utah and the Arizonas would be closer of course).

It doesn't mean that they are going to get their desires but six would make sense geographically. I don't think T.C.U. is so dogmatic that they couldn't fit in with the PAC, but Baylor may be a bit different. I'm sure the PAC would be open to a Kansas school as long as the Oklahomas were in the mix. But it is talk that shows that some of the Texas faithful are convinced that movement is not over and that they aren't as happy as they paint themselves to be with the present Big 12.

I do not have a good grasp on the culture of Baylor or TCU, but does their religious affiliation define them so much that they absolutely would never part with it? I ask because almost every private school in this country started out as religious (most were Methodist that are now secular.) Many of them still keep a theology department, though, or at least have course offerings out of the philosophy department. Are TCU and Baylor anywhere near that point? Locally, Belmont recently gave up their Baptist affiliation, and that is when that started growing in every possible way as a university because it opened up other people/donors, whether Christian or not, who never felt ownership in the school because they were not Baptist.

No school should ever change their essence for what outsiders think or feel, but if either school is heading in that direction, it is not a bad idea to compartmentalize the religious aspect to academic study only and change the charter to a secular approach. TCU and Baylor hit many of the qualifications that the PAC would look for in a school; it is just the religious component that seems to be the major issue.

(07-12-2013 02:42 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I do not have a good grasp on the culture of Baylor or TCU, but does their religious affiliation define them so much that they absolutely would never part with it? I ask because almost every private school in this country started out as religious (most were Methodist that are now secular.) Many of them still keep a theology department, though, or at least have course offerings out of the philosophy department. Are TCU and Baylor anywhere near that point? Locally, Belmont recently gave up their Baptist affiliation, and that is when that started growing in every possible way as a university because it opened up other people/donors, whether Christian or not, who never felt ownership in the school because they were not Baptist.

No school should ever change their essence for what outsiders think or feel, but if either school is heading in that direction, it is not a bad idea to compartmentalize the religious aspect to academic study only and change the charter to a secular approach. TCU and Baylor hit many of the qualifications that the PAC would look for in a school; it is just the religious component that seems to be the major issue.

I'm pretty sure T.C.U. has compartmentalized religion and that they operate independently of denominational control. I'm not sure what the PAC objection is to Baylor. They are certainly open minded about other studies. I have always assumed it was because the Baptist Church may hold closer ties to them because of the seminary, or have even wondered if it had to do with a perception that they were too evangelistic. Anyway in the years ahead we'll probably hear more. Theologically I would say that Baylor was middle of the road. And from kids I've known that have gone there there is certainly academic freedom which really should be the only concern the PAC would have a right to voice (as with B.Y.U.). I doubt anyone could substantiate a claim that Baylor exhibits any issues over academic freedom.

By the way I learned just a year or so ago that Wake Forest is no longer officially affiliated with the Baptist Church.

(07-12-2013 02:42 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I do not have a good grasp on the culture of Baylor or TCU, but does their religious affiliation define them so much that they absolutely would never part with it? I ask because almost every private school in this country started out as religious (most were Methodist that are now secular.) Many of them still keep a theology department, though, or at least have course offerings out of the philosophy department. Are TCU and Baylor anywhere near that point? Locally, Belmont recently gave up their Baptist affiliation, and that is when that started growing in every possible way as a university because it opened up other people/donors, whether Christian or not, who never felt ownership in the school because they were not Baptist.

No school should ever change their essence for what outsiders think or feel, but if either school is heading in that direction, it is not a bad idea to compartmentalize the religious aspect to academic study only and change the charter to a secular approach. TCU and Baylor hit many of the qualifications that the PAC would look for in a school; it is just the religious component that seems to be the major issue.

The PAC has limited options now. Take at least four Big XII schools, go to sixteen, and form a Mountain Division.

(07-12-2013 01:05 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-11-2013 09:13 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 12:18 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 04:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 11:40 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  I do agree with your points about the PAC 12. Eventually they have to deal with the Big XII schools. They have no other options that meets their requirements. If the SEC doesn't grab a couple, the PAC 12 or B1G will. I do not believe the Sooners fit the PAC 12 liberal culture. I also believe their goal is not to play Northern schools all year, every year. The only upside is playing their old rival Nebraska again. I still believe they would be a natural fit for the SEC.

They would have their game against Nebraska. They would maintain ties to Kansas. The Head Coaches of Oklahoma and Iowa have history together as was talked about constantly for their Bowl Game.

The Admin of Oklahoma would absolutely push Oklahoma towards the Big Ten instead of the SEC. They would probably face some blowback on that from fans and some alumni but so did President Loh of Maryland. As long as Oklahoma can maintain it's key rivalries of Texas and Oklahoma State, then it would be just fine.

They most certainly would have a better chance to win or finish strongly in the Big Ten and the Big Ten will Never be cut out of the National Picture. Oklahoma could definitely take advantage of that.

Sure there might be some fan support for an SEC move instead but there is no way that the persons making the decisions would choose the SEC over the B1G, in my opinion.

Their mistake. Okie in the B1G is the true fish out of water.....

I disagree. How would Oklahoma be a fish out of water with the likes of Kansas and Nebraska? Norman isn't all that far from Texas. It will still have a huge program and will still get plenty of Texas recruits. Oklahoma will still have a strong shot at any National Tournament in the Big Ten if they have a strong season.

I understand the talk about how Nebraska in the Big Ten may hurt some of their Texas recruiting and such but there is a very considerable geographic difference between Lincoln Nebraska and Norman Oklahoma.

I know this is the SEC Board so I am trying to be as nice about it as possible but Oklahoma would be just fine in the Big Ten. They could be just fine in the SEC too but how do you think they will do in the SEC, truthfully?

It's very unlikely that OU would end up in the Big. For one the Big would never take Oklahoma State and that is a guaranteed pair for any conference interested in OU.

Recruiting would take a major hit. Texas A&M got a big recruiting boost going to the SEC. But that’s the SEC, and the Aggies are based in Texas. OU’s Texas pipeline would be crippled. No games in Texas would be tough, and yes, that means OU-Texas would be endangered; if the Longhorns cut the cord with the Aggies, you don’t think the ‘Horns would cut the cord with the Sooners?

Well recruiting would take a hit but your competition level would go down. I am not saying the top level of the Big Ten is a walk in the park but the Big 12 is a stronger conference across the board so any recruiting hit is mitigated.

Norman Oklahoma is still not that far from Texas and your facilities and your program itself will not take a hit which will still make Oklahoma a great place for football players to go to. Oklahoma would be one of the strongest programs in the Big Ten perennially. I doubt that would be the case in the SEC.

The Horns cut the cord with the Aggies because the Ags left under bad blood conditions. If this all happened, there would be mutual agreement. The RRR game in Dallas is huge for Texas. It is one of the stated reasons from Austin as to why they dont want a conference championship. They don't want to supposedly weaken the strength of the RRR game by having a possible rematch in the Championship game. I would say that is a pretty strong statement that Texas would look to save the RRR as an OOC game should the two programs separate to different conferences. Saving that game alone saves Oklahoma recruiting in the State of Texas.

They can't afford to get rid of the only remaining game on their schedule the t-shirt fans and most of the alums actually care about.

They are already having trouble with real attendance and season ticket sales because they no longer have any home conference games at DKR their fans care passionately about.

(07-12-2013 02:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well since Maryland is gone with a high degree of probability would you replace them with West Virginia and still add Cincinnati?

WV clearly fits the footprint. But there are three major issues:

1) No new major markets (DC and Pittsburgh are already via VT and Pitt).
2) LOL academics
3) Fan behavior .... even VT fans find WV fans abhorrent. I don't think I could get behind bringing them in unless and until a lengthy behavior cleanup campaign was undertaken.

(07-14-2013 11:11 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(07-12-2013 02:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well since Maryland is gone with a high degree of probability would you replace them with West Virginia and still add Cincinnati?

WV clearly fits the footprint. But there are three major issues:

1) No new major markets (DC and Pittsburgh are already via VT and Pitt).
2) LOL academics
3) Fan behavior .... even VT fans find WV fans abhorrent. I don't think I could get behind bringing them in unless and until a lengthy behavior cleanup campaign was undertaken.

I do thoroughly understand issues 2 & 3. I think both could be a potential snag for the SEC even though we desire entry into that market area. And while WVU only obliquely puts us there the issue becomes one of market presence versus academics and behavior for us as well. LSU fans (entity unto themselves) had some major behavior issues with WVU upon visiting Morgantown in their last series. It was not without notice at the conference office in Birmingham. But membership in the SEC would preclude alcohol sales inside the stadium (something West Virginia adds to their concessions). That could mitigate "some" of the behavior problems.

The SEC has some of the best Network support in college football, in fact they DO have the best network support. They have Tier 1 with CBS and they have Tier 2/3 with ESPN that actively supports them with all their talking head shows.

WVU may only have nominal support in the geographical areas mentioned but if they were ever allowed into the SEC they would be the representative of those areas in that highest displayed conference. People in those areas might not buy so many WVU jerseys but they would still watch some of their games against the big time programs of the SEC. In fact I think they would be more interested in those match ups instead of whom they are playing in the Big 12.

Does WVU have some behavioral issues? Yes but they are overplayed and the removal of alcohol would definitely help. ANY college football atmosphere will be crazy if you allow the fans to have alcohol available to them during the game. You cant stop tailgating but by the time the game is drawing near close, folks arent so innebriated.

New markets for the SEC and ESPN to show the conference in. A new strong regional rival for Tennessee. The Tennessee Brand seriously needs some help. It would be so awesome for the hilltoppers if you guys could land both VT and WVU.

A lot of talk from Tennessee is that they dont like to play VT due to recruiting competition but if the SEC moves to four divisions and those schools are all in the same division then that helps Tennessee rebuild it's program back to what it was. Strong rivalries in division that Tennessee can actually win on a regular basis.

Tennessee is one of the schools that really needs to look to the future and the changing atmosphere. Holding back progress and protecting the Alabama and Florida rivalries at the cost of continuing to slide downwards as a program, that is just not a winning scenario for the Volunteers.

You're right about the incidents at WVU being vastly overblown. If there's an incident in Morgantown the national media immediately picks it up as violence directed against fans of WVU's opponents, and suddenly their entire fanbase is saying they were treated badly. Every school has its percentage of kids getting ignorant. WVU is no different. But there are just as many incidents happening at football stadiums around the nation. I've had drinks thrown at me from Boston to Miami, simply for wearing the wrong colors. I've been hit with frozen fruit. I remember a 3 punch fight at Lane Stadium, that the son of the VT campus police captain started - and promptly lost. I've seen plenty of instances in Knoxville every year, and it's little different at any other campus around the country. But the national media doesn't seem to notice those...

But ask any B12 fan who's been to Morgantown and ask them about their experience. Ask them about their experience with WVU fans who made the trip to their town. Everyone I've talked to is loving West Virginia and WVU fans...

As for alcohol at Milan Puskar Stadium, I doubt you'll get WVU to stop selling it, without a serious financial gain. First of all, it generated an extra million dollars for the program, which ain't chump change for a school in one of the poorest states in the nation. 2nd, in stadium sales of beer, coupled with eliminating halftime tailgating, actually reduced the number of alcohol related incidents at Milan Puskar. Selling beer at the stadium keeps folks off more concentrated alcoholic concoctions, and sales end before the end of the 3rd quarter. I forget the percentages, but there was a significant reduction in the number of alcohol related incidents at WVU last season...

If I find the link for the story before I forget about posting this, I'll insert it...

(07-14-2013 01:08 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  New markets for the SEC and ESPN to show the conference in. A new strong regional rival for Tennessee. The Tennessee Brand seriously needs some help. It would be so awesome for the hilltoppers if you guys could land both VT and WVU.

A lot of talk from Tennessee is that they dont like to play VT due to recruiting competition but if the SEC moves to four divisions and those schools are all in the same division then that helps Tennessee rebuild it's program back to what it was. Strong rivalries in division that Tennessee can actually win on a regular basis.

Tennessee is one of the schools that really needs to look to the future and the changing atmosphere. Holding back progress and protecting the Alabama and Florida rivalries at the cost of continuing to slide downwards as a program, that is just not a winning scenario for the Volunteers.

He1nous,

Are you suggesting that UT can't win b/c of the ascension of other SEC programs? If that's the case then it won't matter what divisions/teams the Vols end up in. The reason things are terrible in Knoxville is b/c of former AD Mike Hamilton and his coaching decisions after firing Phil Fulmer. UT play in the SEC championship game as recently as 2007.

I'm not really sure how UT's position is that dissimilar from Auburn's. But schools rely heavily on out of state talent and are other overshadowed by more prominent programs. Both have endured a spat of terrible coaching hires which have knee-capped overall performance.

Bit,

Maybe it's b/c I was a Midshipman at the time, but during Navy's visit to Morgantown in 1999, I had a great experience. It was a competitive game and the fans were very generous and helpful (we did have to wear our SDB's to the game) and I don't recall one instance of couch-burning during my visit.

(07-15-2013 07:16 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(07-14-2013 01:08 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  New markets for the SEC and ESPN to show the conference in. A new strong regional rival for Tennessee. The Tennessee Brand seriously needs some help. It would be so awesome for the hilltoppers if you guys could land both VT and WVU.

A lot of talk from Tennessee is that they dont like to play VT due to recruiting competition but if the SEC moves to four divisions and those schools are all in the same division then that helps Tennessee rebuild it's program back to what it was. Strong rivalries in division that Tennessee can actually win on a regular basis.

Tennessee is one of the schools that really needs to look to the future and the changing atmosphere. Holding back progress and protecting the Alabama and Florida rivalries at the cost of continuing to slide downwards as a program, that is just not a winning scenario for the Volunteers.

He1nous,

Are you suggesting that UT can't win b/c of the ascension of other SEC programs? If that's the case then it won't matter what divisions/teams the Vols end up in. The reason things are terrible in Knoxville is b/c of former AD Mike Hamilton and his coaching decisions after firing Phil Fulmer. UT play in the SEC championship game as recently as 2007.

I'm not really sure how UT's position is that dissimilar from Auburn's. But schools rely heavily on out of state talent and are other overshadowed by more prominent programs. Both have endured a spat of terrible coaching hires which have knee-capped overall performance.

Bit,

Maybe it's b/c I was a Midshipman at the time, but during Navy's visit to Morgantown in 1999, I had a great experience. It was a competitive game and the fans were very generous and helpful (we did have to wear our SDB's to the game) and I don't recall one instance of couch-burning during my visit.

I can't imagine that a school that is capable of averaging over 100,000 fans per game would ever be significantly out the hunt for football recruits. UT for reasons different than those at Auburn followed a stable successful coach with a disaster of a head coach and then picked green fruit to follow him. I think if Davis is given time (5 years) the Volunteers and their fans will be back big time. My reasons are these.
1. Spurrier will likely retire within that time frame taking the stress off from South Carolina as a new guy builds his credentials.
2. Richt will likely be gone from Georgia with that time span for no other reasons than length of tenure. Big programs need turnover to keep fan interest these days. He may get hired away by an ACC school or a Big 10 school looking to improve their program.
3. I don't think Florida stays happy with Muschamp who heretofore has been only above average, not stellar.

With turnover looming for the three chief rivals in the East the time is very right for Davis to establish himself.

The money will be there.

Tennessee has cache.

In the West on the other hand Miles and Saban are settling in. I think Auburn can get back to a position to challenge but climbing back into the championship game will take some time.

And as far as the treatment of the Midshipmen at Morgantown I have nothing against West Virginia, but the Midshipmen would be treated fairly well by any fan base they visited. People simply respect the uniform, respect the tradition, and admire the young men and women who serve. Only the most ignorant and obtuse imbecile would taunt or abuse our cadets. So while I appreciate your experience and am glad you were well received I doubt that the U.S. Naval Academy experience at any venue is typical.

(07-15-2013 09:37 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-15-2013 07:16 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(07-14-2013 01:08 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  New markets for the SEC and ESPN to show the conference in. A new strong regional rival for Tennessee. The Tennessee Brand seriously needs some help. It would be so awesome for the hilltoppers if you guys could land both VT and WVU.

A lot of talk from Tennessee is that they dont like to play VT due to recruiting competition but if the SEC moves to four divisions and those schools are all in the same division then that helps Tennessee rebuild it's program back to what it was. Strong rivalries in division that Tennessee can actually win on a regular basis.

Tennessee is one of the schools that really needs to look to the future and the changing atmosphere. Holding back progress and protecting the Alabama and Florida rivalries at the cost of continuing to slide downwards as a program, that is just not a winning scenario for the Volunteers.

He1nous,

Are you suggesting that UT can't win b/c of the ascension of other SEC programs? If that's the case then it won't matter what divisions/teams the Vols end up in. The reason things are terrible in Knoxville is b/c of former AD Mike Hamilton and his coaching decisions after firing Phil Fulmer. UT play in the SEC championship game as recently as 2007.

I'm not really sure how UT's position is that dissimilar from Auburn's. But schools rely heavily on out of state talent and are other overshadowed by more prominent programs. Both have endured a spat of terrible coaching hires which have knee-capped overall performance.

Bit,

Maybe it's b/c I was a Midshipman at the time, but during Navy's visit to Morgantown in 1999, I had a great experience. It was a competitive game and the fans were very generous and helpful (we did have to wear our SDB's to the game) and I don't recall one instance of couch-burning during my visit.

I can't imagine that a school that is capable of averaging over 100,000 fans per game would ever be significantly out the hunt for football recruits. UT for reasons different than those at Auburn followed a stable successful coach with a disaster of a head coach and then picked green fruit to follow him. I think if Davis is given time (5 years) the Volunteers and their fans will be back big time. My reasons are these.
1. Spurrier will likely retire within that time frame taking the stress off from South Carolina as a new guy builds his credentials.
2. Richt will likely be gone from Georgia with that time span for no other reasons than length of tenure. Big programs need turnover to keep fan interest these days. He may get hired away by an ACC school or a Big 10 school looking to improve their program.
3. I don't think Florida stays happy with Muschamp who heretofore has been only above average, not stellar.

With turnover looming for the three chief rivals in the East the time is very right for Davis to establish himself.

The money will be there.

Tennessee has cache.

In the West on the other hand Miles and Saban are settling in. I think Auburn can get back to a position to challenge but climbing back into the championship game will take some time.

And as far as the treatment of the Midshipmen at Morgantown I have nothing against West Virginia, but the Midshipmen would be treated fairly well by any fan base they visited. People simply respect the uniform, respect the tradition, and admire the young men and women who serve. Only the most ignorant and obtuse imbecile would taunt or abuse our cadets. So while I appreciate your experience and am glad you were well received I doubt that the U.S. Naval Academy experience at any venue is typical.

I have seen fights and trouble from FSU, Florida to LSU and they don't sell beer. Anytime you have tens of thousands of fans there will be a little trouble. Honestly, the only place I never saw a fight with 200,000 people is the Talladega 500. lol

(07-15-2013 07:16 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(07-14-2013 01:08 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  New markets for the SEC and ESPN to show the conference in. A new strong regional rival for Tennessee. The Tennessee Brand seriously needs some help. It would be so awesome for the hilltoppers if you guys could land both VT and WVU.

A lot of talk from Tennessee is that they dont like to play VT due to recruiting competition but if the SEC moves to four divisions and those schools are all in the same division then that helps Tennessee rebuild it's program back to what it was. Strong rivalries in division that Tennessee can actually win on a regular basis.

Tennessee is one of the schools that really needs to look to the future and the changing atmosphere. Holding back progress and protecting the Alabama and Florida rivalries at the cost of continuing to slide downwards as a program, that is just not a winning scenario for the Volunteers.

He1nous,

Are you suggesting that UT can't win b/c of the ascension of other SEC programs? If that's the case then it won't matter what divisions/teams the Vols end up in. The reason things are terrible in Knoxville is b/c of former AD Mike Hamilton and his coaching decisions after firing Phil Fulmer. UT play in the SEC championship game as recently as 2007.

I'm not really sure how UT's position is that dissimilar from Auburn's. But schools rely heavily on out of state talent and are other overshadowed by more prominent programs. Both have endured a spat of terrible coaching hires which have knee-capped overall performance.

Bit,

Maybe it's b/c I was a Midshipman at the time, but during Navy's visit to Morgantown in 1999, I had a great experience. It was a competitive game and the fans were very generous and helpful (we did have to wear our SDB's to the game) and I don't recall one instance of couch-burning during my visit.

You may be right, I may be wrong but the damage is done and it is very obvious. Perhaps my perspective from the outside does not allow me to see enough to know what I am talking about, or perhaps my perspective from the outside allows me to provide unbiased judgement on the situation.

It doesn't look good for Tennessee at all. They couldn't lure away Louisville's Head Coach. With his contacts down in Florida that would have been awesome for Tennessee yet...they didn't have the clout to pull him away from Louisville. That does not speak highly for what is going on at Tennessee and their viewed potential with those in the know. Top coaches are not jumping to go there because of their situation.

If the SEC gave Tennessee a new division, then that massive brand with it's massive following could once again fluorish. Why? Because they wont continuously be beat down out of the running for the conference championship or tournament. If they are competing in a division that is more equal for them then they immediately become the perceived dominant power in that conference and recruits are going to like that. Tennessee will be seen as the favorite to make it to any future SEC Tournament from their "Northern Border" division. That is not just a positive thing for Tennesse, in my opinion, it is necessary.

(07-15-2013 03:31 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(07-15-2013 07:16 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(07-14-2013 01:08 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  New markets for the SEC and ESPN to show the conference in. A new strong regional rival for Tennessee. The Tennessee Brand seriously needs some help. It would be so awesome for the hilltoppers if you guys could land both VT and WVU.

A lot of talk from Tennessee is that they dont like to play VT due to recruiting competition but if the SEC moves to four divisions and those schools are all in the same division then that helps Tennessee rebuild it's program back to what it was. Strong rivalries in division that Tennessee can actually win on a regular basis.

Tennessee is one of the schools that really needs to look to the future and the changing atmosphere. Holding back progress and protecting the Alabama and Florida rivalries at the cost of continuing to slide downwards as a program, that is just not a winning scenario for the Volunteers.

He1nous,

Are you suggesting that UT can't win b/c of the ascension of other SEC programs? If that's the case then it won't matter what divisions/teams the Vols end up in. The reason things are terrible in Knoxville is b/c of former AD Mike Hamilton and his coaching decisions after firing Phil Fulmer. UT play in the SEC championship game as recently as 2007.

I'm not really sure how UT's position is that dissimilar from Auburn's. But schools rely heavily on out of state talent and are other overshadowed by more prominent programs. Both have endured a spat of terrible coaching hires which have knee-capped overall performance.

Bit,

Maybe it's b/c I was a Midshipman at the time, but during Navy's visit to Morgantown in 1999, I had a great experience. It was a competitive game and the fans were very generous and helpful (we did have to wear our SDB's to the game) and I don't recall one instance of couch-burning during my visit.

You may be right, I may be wrong but the damage is done and it is very obvious. Perhaps my perspective from the outside does not allow me to see enough to know what I am talking about, or perhaps my perspective from the outside allows me to provide unbiased judgement on the situation.

It doesn't look good for Tennessee at all. They couldn't lure away Louisville's Head Coach. With his contacts down in Florida that would have been awesome for Tennessee yet...they didn't have the clout to pull him away from Louisville. That does not speak highly for what is going on at Tennessee and their viewed potential with those in the know. Top coaches are not jumping to go there because of their situation.

If the SEC gave Tennessee a new division, then that massive brand with it's massive following could once again fluorish. Why? Because they wont continuously be beat down out of the running for the conference championship or tournament. If they are competing in a division that is more equal for them then they immediately become the perceived dominant power in that conference and recruits are going to like that. Tennessee will be seen as the favorite to make it to any future SEC Tournament from their "Northern Border" division. That is not just a positive thing for Tennesse, in my opinion, it is necessary.

I guess the fans will decide this in the end...

(07-15-2013 03:40 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(07-15-2013 03:31 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(07-15-2013 07:16 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(07-14-2013 01:08 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  New markets for the SEC and ESPN to show the conference in. A new strong regional rival for Tennessee. The Tennessee Brand seriously needs some help. It would be so awesome for the hilltoppers if you guys could land both VT and WVU.

A lot of talk from Tennessee is that they dont like to play VT due to recruiting competition but if the SEC moves to four divisions and those schools are all in the same division then that helps Tennessee rebuild it's program back to what it was. Strong rivalries in division that Tennessee can actually win on a regular basis.

Tennessee is one of the schools that really needs to look to the future and the changing atmosphere. Holding back progress and protecting the Alabama and Florida rivalries at the cost of continuing to slide downwards as a program, that is just not a winning scenario for the Volunteers.

He1nous,

Are you suggesting that UT can't win b/c of the ascension of other SEC programs? If that's the case then it won't matter what divisions/teams the Vols end up in. The reason things are terrible in Knoxville is b/c of former AD Mike Hamilton and his coaching decisions after firing Phil Fulmer. UT play in the SEC championship game as recently as 2007.

I'm not really sure how UT's position is that dissimilar from Auburn's. But schools rely heavily on out of state talent and are other overshadowed by more prominent programs. Both have endured a spat of terrible coaching hires which have knee-capped overall performance.

Bit,

Maybe it's b/c I was a Midshipman at the time, but during Navy's visit to Morgantown in 1999, I had a great experience. It was a competitive game and the fans were very generous and helpful (we did have to wear our SDB's to the game) and I don't recall one instance of couch-burning during my visit.

You may be right, I may be wrong but the damage is done and it is very obvious. Perhaps my perspective from the outside does not allow me to see enough to know what I am talking about, or perhaps my perspective from the outside allows me to provide unbiased judgement on the situation.

It doesn't look good for Tennessee at all. They couldn't lure away Louisville's Head Coach. With his contacts down in Florida that would have been awesome for Tennessee yet...they didn't have the clout to pull him away from Louisville. That does not speak highly for what is going on at Tennessee and their viewed potential with those in the know. Top coaches are not jumping to go there because of their situation.

If the SEC gave Tennessee a new division, then that massive brand with it's massive following could once again fluorish. Why? Because they wont continuously be beat down out of the running for the conference championship or tournament. If they are competing in a division that is more equal for them then they immediately become the perceived dominant power in that conference and recruits are going to like that. Tennessee will be seen as the favorite to make it to any future SEC Tournament from their "Northern Border" division. That is not just a positive thing for Tennesse, in my opinion, it is necessary.

I guess the fans will decide this in the end...

No they won't. Tennessee fans will support the Vols regardless and they have never waivered. If the fans mattered in this, Tennessee wouldn't be in such a dire situation when it comes to luring a top notch coach to lead the program.

All that matters is on the field performance for Tennessee. All those close games won't matter in the end. In the record books all that matters is the W's and L's and that is what matters when it comes to earning post season play. That is what is going to cause top notch recruits to pick other places in the SEC first. Tennessee has a Great Stadium but so do most other programs in the SEC. Sure there are a couple that are definitely lacking but they are not causing recruiting problems for Tennessee.

The SEC needs to stabilize that Elite Brand if the conference ever expands again. It would be silly to not "artificially" boost Tennessee back up to where it traditionally stands in the SEC hierarchy.

(07-15-2013 03:59 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(07-15-2013 03:40 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(07-15-2013 03:31 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(07-15-2013 07:16 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(07-14-2013 01:08 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  New markets for the SEC and ESPN to show the conference in. A new strong regional rival for Tennessee. The Tennessee Brand seriously needs some help. It would be so awesome for the hilltoppers if you guys could land both VT and WVU.

A lot of talk from Tennessee is that they dont like to play VT due to recruiting competition but if the SEC moves to four divisions and those schools are all in the same division then that helps Tennessee rebuild it's program back to what it was. Strong rivalries in division that Tennessee can actually win on a regular basis.

Tennessee is one of the schools that really needs to look to the future and the changing atmosphere. Holding back progress and protecting the Alabama and Florida rivalries at the cost of continuing to slide downwards as a program, that is just not a winning scenario for the Volunteers.

He1nous,

Are you suggesting that UT can't win b/c of the ascension of other SEC programs? If that's the case then it won't matter what divisions/teams the Vols end up in. The reason things are terrible in Knoxville is b/c of former AD Mike Hamilton and his coaching decisions after firing Phil Fulmer. UT play in the SEC championship game as recently as 2007.

I'm not really sure how UT's position is that dissimilar from Auburn's. But schools rely heavily on out of state talent and are other overshadowed by more prominent programs. Both have endured a spat of terrible coaching hires which have knee-capped overall performance.

Bit,

Maybe it's b/c I was a Midshipman at the time, but during Navy's visit to Morgantown in 1999, I had a great experience. It was a competitive game and the fans were very generous and helpful (we did have to wear our SDB's to the game) and I don't recall one instance of couch-burning during my visit.

You may be right, I may be wrong but the damage is done and it is very obvious. Perhaps my perspective from the outside does not allow me to see enough to know what I am talking about, or perhaps my perspective from the outside allows me to provide unbiased judgement on the situation.

It doesn't look good for Tennessee at all. They couldn't lure away Louisville's Head Coach. With his contacts down in Florida that would have been awesome for Tennessee yet...they didn't have the clout to pull him away from Louisville. That does not speak highly for what is going on at Tennessee and their viewed potential with those in the know. Top coaches are not jumping to go there because of their situation.

If the SEC gave Tennessee a new division, then that massive brand with it's massive following could once again fluorish. Why? Because they wont continuously be beat down out of the running for the conference championship or tournament. If they are competing in a division that is more equal for them then they immediately become the perceived dominant power in that conference and recruits are going to like that. Tennessee will be seen as the favorite to make it to any future SEC Tournament from their "Northern Border" division. That is not just a positive thing for Tennesse, in my opinion, it is necessary.

I guess the fans will decide this in the end...

No they won't. Tennessee fans will support the Vols regardless and they have never waivered. If the fans mattered in this, Tennessee wouldn't be in such a dire situation when it comes to luring a top notch coach to lead the program.

All that matters is on the field performance for Tennessee. All those close games won't matter in the end. In the record books all that matters is the W's and L's and that is what matters when it comes to earning post season play. That is what is going to cause top notch recruits to pick other places in the SEC first. Tennessee has a Great Stadium but so do most other programs in the SEC. Sure there are a couple that are definitely lacking but they are not causing recruiting problems for Tennessee.

The SEC needs to stabilize that Elite Brand if the conference ever expands again. It would be silly to not "artificially" boost Tennessee back up to where it traditionally stands in the SEC hierarchy.

Not too many years ago Tennessee was a super power. I believe this is an up and down thing. JMHO.

(07-15-2013 03:31 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  You may be right, I may be wrong but the damage is done and it is very obvious. Perhaps my perspective from the outside does not allow me to see enough to know what I am talking about, or perhaps my perspective from the outside allows me to provide unbiased judgement on the situation.

It doesn't look good for Tennessee at all. They couldn't lure away Louisville's Head Coach. With his contacts down in Florida that would have been awesome for Tennessee yet...they didn't have the clout to pull him away from Louisville. That does not speak highly for what is going on at Tennessee and their viewed potential with those in the know. Top coaches are not jumping to go there because of their situation.

If the SEC gave Tennessee a new division, then that massive brand with it's massive following could once again fluorish. Why? Because they wont continuously be beat down out of the running for the conference championship or tournament. If they are competing in a division that is more equal for them then they immediately become the perceived dominant power in that conference and recruits are going to like that. Tennessee will be seen as the favorite to make it to any future SEC Tournament from their "Northern Border" division. That is not just a positive thing for Tennesse, in my opinion, it is necessary.

With regard to the HC search, I think Strong felt a certain loyalty to Jurich for providing him his first HC opportunity. The Vols missed on Strong after the Kiffin debacle when they doubled down and hired Dooley.

I guess my question is why would your proposed 'Boarder' division give the Vols a better chance to win than staying with 'Bama? (UF was only a big rivalry in the 90's. Historically, the Vols have played most of the teams that now make up the SEC West). Vandy, UK and Mizzou are all better than Tennessee right now. WVU and VT have out-perfored the Vols in the last 5 years as well.

I just don't think you can create a division that would be favorable to the Vols that would accomplish what you're suggesting.