(06-21-2013 11:19 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 10:53 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  From JD:

"Source: #Rice president David Leebron met w/ athletic staff this week, says school to hire AD search firm; process will take few months"

And, with that, it strikes me that the battle is already lost. Color me a cynic.

NOT a good sign.

(06-21-2013 11:34 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 11:28 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 10:53 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  From JD:

"Source: #Rice president David Leebron met w/ athletic staff this week, says school to hire AD search firm; process will take few months"

Not a very impressive display of "Unconventional Wisdom"

Well, how did we handle it the last time to get RG? Was that an outside search firm?

Yes. The same firm will not be used this time.

(06-21-2013 11:40 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 11:34 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 11:28 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 10:53 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  From JD:

"Source: #Rice president David Leebron met w/ athletic staff this week, says school to hire AD search firm; process will take few months"

Not a very impressive display of "Unconventional Wisdom"

Well, how did we handle it the last time to get RG? Was that an outside search firm?

Yes. The same firm will not be used this time.

Ok, nice to know. Not exactly sure how we were supposed to handle it.

What's the issue here?

I think we should absolutely use an outside firm to help find candidates.

[deleted ... I was demonstrating my ignorance]

(06-21-2013 12:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I hate the idea of an outside search firm. Hopefully they are at least using administration money instead of athletic department money? For godsake, have some balls and ovaries and take the bull by the horns on this. If the administration and BOT combined aren't capable of hiring a capable athletic director in less than a few months, how are they able to run a university? Serious question, this isn't biochem or neuroscience, it is human resources. Not too frickin' hard.

And it seems highly unlikely that any search firm will understand anything about the uniqueness of the situation at Rice athletics or seriously way any kind of unconventional thinking. Most likely result is a conventional choice. Not that a conventional choice won't work, but the process likely makes it much harder for someone from outside the world of college athletics.

An outside search firm was used last time only to identify candidates. That list went to the committee at Rice to interview. It is up to Leebron and others to identify the qualities necessary so that the search firm can find the right people and then the committee can pick the right man or woman for the job. This process is done all over the country at many different universities. So apparently, it is a bit difficult and time consuming to compile a thorough list of interested candidates.

As well, I would argue that CDC was a conventional choice and it worked just fine. He was a young guy at a senior post under his AD at Arizona, ready to take the next step. I don't see why a search firm wouldn't look for something similar. Nor do I see why the firm would be limited to inside college athletics. Michigan hired a consulting firm to gather candidates for their most recent AD hire, who was outside college athletics.

(06-21-2013 11:41 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 11:40 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 11:34 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 11:28 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 10:53 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  From JD:

"Source: #Rice president David Leebron met w/ athletic staff this week, says school to hire AD search firm; process will take few months"

Not a very impressive display of "Unconventional Wisdom"

Well, how did we handle it the last time to get RG? Was that an outside search firm?

Yes. The same firm will not be used this time.

Ok, nice to know. Not exactly sure how we were supposed to handle it.

The search firm identified folks they thought would be good candidates and asked them if they were interested in being interviewed. Andy Noel AD at Cornell told me that when he was asked the timeline they wanted a decision in was too short for him to adequately decide if he wanted to go farther.

(06-21-2013 12:07 PM)At Ease Wrote:  What's the issue here?

I think we should absolutely use an outside firm to help find candidates.

Yes. That's how these things are done. Leebron isn't going to work the phones trying to identify candidates. This firm will do the legwork and then it's up to Rice to select their guy.

(06-21-2013 12:29 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 12:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I hate the idea of an outside search firm. Hopefully they are at least using administration money instead of athletic department money? For godsake, have some balls and ovaries and take the bull by the horns on this. If the administration and BOT combined aren't capable of hiring a capable athletic director in less than a few months, how are they able to run a university? Serious question, this isn't biochem or neuroscience, it is human resources. Not too frickin' hard.

And it seems highly unlikely that any search firm will understand anything about the uniqueness of the situation at Rice athletics or seriously way any kind of unconventional thinking. Most likely result is a conventional choice. Not that a conventional choice won't work, but the process likely makes it much harder for someone from outside the world of college athletics.

An outside search firm was used last time only to identify candidates. That list went to the committee at Rice to interview. It is up to Leebron and others to identify the qualities necessary so that the search firm can find the right people and then the committee can pick the right man or woman for the job. This process is done all over the country at many different universities. So apparently, it is a bit difficult and time consuming to compile a thorough list of interested candidates.

As well, I would argue that CDC was a conventional choice and it worked just fine. He was a young guy at a senior post under his AD at Arizona, ready to take the next step. I don't see why a search firm wouldn't look for something similar. Nor do I see why the firm would be limited to inside college athletics. Michigan hired a consulting firm to gather candidates for their most recent AD hire, who was outside college athletics.

Nevermind then, that makes me feel better. I was thinking the search firm would also make a hiring recommendation. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, and sometimes it makes you look the fool...

I know Bobby Tudor was pretty heavily involved in the CDC hire. I don't think he was as involved in the RG hire. I am hoping he will be heavily involved again this time.

(06-21-2013 12:07 PM)At Ease Wrote:  What's the issue here?

I think we should absolutely use an outside firm to help find candidates.

I agree a firm should be used, but what is the criteria that they will use to look for candidates? What's the goal here? I would think that whatever the process would be, deciding that and announcing something up front would be key. I'm concerned at this stage that the criteria seems to be "we need a body to fill this role". It's hard for me to see something like a successful business person arising as a candidate when the first step is to kick it out to a search firm.

(06-21-2013 12:52 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Nevermind then, that makes me feel better. I was thinking the search firm would also make a hiring recommendation. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, and sometimes it makes you look the fool...

I just kind of let it lead me where it wants to and I'll suffer the consequences ....

An outside search firm pretty much guarantees a "safe" hire. The firm has a reputation to protect, so they won't take any chances. And whoever makes the final hiring decision can always say, "He/She was recommended by XYZ search firm."

Given that we need a paradigm-buster and not a safe hire, this is probably not a great way to go.

My guess is that we'll probably get an older guy who has had a couple of gigs and is running out the string. Exactly what we do not need.

I would hope they'd vet him a bit extra for hints of racism, but that's probably about as far as it will go.

(06-21-2013 02:24 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  An outside search firm pretty much guarantees a "safe" hire. The firm has a reputation to protect, so they won't take any chances. And whoever makes the final hiring decision can always say, "He/She was recommended by XYZ search firm."

Given that we need a paradigm-buster and not a safe hire, this is probably not a great way to go.

My guess is that we'll probably get an older guy who has had a couple of gigs and is running out the string. Exactly what we do not need.

I would hope they'd vet him a bit extra for hints of racism, but that's probably about as far as it will go.

As I said before, Michigan hired a consulting firm and ended up with someone outside college athletics. It all depends on the criteria laid out for the firm. If the criteria is laid out for someone safe, then yeah, probably will be someone safe. I guess we have trust to Leebron and Bobby Tudor's leadership to try to get the right guy.

(06-21-2013 02:24 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  An outside search firm pretty much guarantees a "safe" hire. The firm has a reputation to protect, so they won't take any chances. And whoever makes the final hiring decision can always say, "He/She was recommended by XYZ search firm."

Given that we need a paradigm-buster and not a safe hire, this is probably not a great way to go.

My guess is that we'll probably get an older guy who has had a couple of gigs and is running out the string. Exactly what we do not need.

I would hope they'd vet him a bit extra for hints of racism, but that's probably about as far as it will go.

+1

An eloquent explanation of my comment about this not being a good example of "Unconventional Wisdon".

(06-21-2013 02:41 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 02:24 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  An outside search firm pretty much guarantees a "safe" hire. The firm has a reputation to protect, so they won't take any chances. And whoever makes the final hiring decision can always say, "He/She was recommended by XYZ search firm."

Given that we need a paradigm-buster and not a safe hire, this is probably not a great way to go.

My guess is that we'll probably get an older guy who has had a couple of gigs and is running out the string. Exactly what we do not need.

I would hope they'd vet him a bit extra for hints of racism, but that's probably about as far as it will go.

As I said before, Michigan hired a consulting firm and ended up with someone outside college athletics. It all depends on the criteria laid out for the firm. If the criteria is laid out for someone safe, then yeah, probably will be someone safe. I guess we have trust to Leebron and Bobby Tudor's leadership to try to get the right guy.

Agreed. I think it will hinge on what Rice and the BOT are telling that firm they are interested in. If they tell the firm they want someone young, charismatic, and up-and-coming, and that firm comes back recommending an older guy, that doesn't exactly make them look great either.

(06-21-2013 02:41 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 02:24 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  An outside search firm pretty much guarantees a "safe" hire. The firm has a reputation to protect, so they won't take any chances. And whoever makes the final hiring decision can always say, "He/She was recommended by XYZ search firm."

Given that we need a paradigm-buster and not a safe hire, this is probably not a great way to go.

My guess is that we'll probably get an older guy who has had a couple of gigs and is running out the string. Exactly what we do not need.

I would hope they'd vet him a bit extra for hints of racism, but that's probably about as far as it will go.

As I said before, Michigan hired a consulting firm and ended up with someone outside college athletics. It all depends on the criteria laid out for the firm. If the criteria is laid out for someone safe, then yeah, probably will be someone safe. I guess we have trust to Leebron and Bobby Tudor's leadership to try to get the right guy.

It can certainly happen. And I'm pretty sure Bobby Tudor was more involved with the CDC hire than in the RG hire, so I'm hoping he will be heavily involved this time. If he wants to leave his mark on athletics, this would be a good first step.

One of Bobby's roles in the CDC hire was calling Scot Thompson to do some background checking. Bobby apparently called Scot and mentioned that he was working on the AD search. Scot's response was something like, "Well if you're thinking about Chris, you can forget it, because whatever you offer, we'll pay more to keep him." I think that pretty much sealed the deal for Bobby.

We could talk to Van Gundy, Hyman, et al. if only to see if they can recommend some up-and-comers.

If the search firm connects us with an excellent candidate whom we would not have found on our own, the search firm is worth it. It's that important.

I see now articles from JD (and David Baron) now say Mello will not be considered for the AD job unlike previous articles which said it wasn't clear if he would be considered.

(06-22-2013 08:46 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  I see now articles from JD (and David Baron) now say Mello will not be considered for the AD job unlike previous articles which said it wasn't clear if he would be considered.

He's a really nice guy, but given his CV and that RG brought him in ....

(06-21-2013 03:47 PM)Caelligh Wrote:  We could talk to Van Gundy, Hyman, et al. if only to see if they can recommend some up-and-comers.

If the search firm connects us with an excellent candidate whom we would not have found on our own, the search firm is worth it. It's that important.

Not pointing this response at you, Caelligh, but at others who believe that the use of an AD search firm provides the wrong signal and a bad first step. What-- do you expect Leebron and/or the BOT to spearhead the search themselves, and be responsible for identifying candidates from around the country? The job of a quality search firm is to identify candidates that meet the criteria and qualifications set by the search committee. It is the responsibility of the seach committee to determine the type of candidate they're looking for-- which would include the inclusion of potential "Rice guys"-- and to make the ultimate hiring decision; all the search firm does is identify candidates that match the selection committee's criteria and undertake a prescreening to narrow the list of potentially viable candidates to an appropriate number.

The keys from my perspective are: (1) who's on the Selection Committee, and (2) what are the selection criteria....and I would hope that this is made public to the Rice community, as that would be a very positive first step in not only transparency., but in righting the wrong of the Greenspan regime.