(05-06-2013 07:07 PM)GjlNIU Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 06:29 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 05:42 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 05:27 PM)HuskiePride12 Wrote:  If they don't at least TRY to get into the deal that a MAC school gets one game a year on Sat on ESPN 2 they have no negotiation skills. 11am kickoff that is fine.

We get less fans for an 11am kickoff on Saturday than a November weeknight kickoff vs Toledo.

That's because we're playing Tennessee-Martin or Cal Poly on Saturday, and Toledo on a weeknight.

That is a factor, but more students also show up to the weeknight games since they are actually ON campus and not at home.

There are pro's and con's to both. If we compare the Kansas game and the Toledo game both have comparable attendance. The hatred of weeknight games and the attendance issues is a myth for NIU. Sure less of us can make it because of work, family obligations, etc. But so many more students come out to the game.

If DeKalb were exciting enough on the weekend for students to stick around might help attendance quite a bit.

The students only come out to the Toledo game on a weeknight. They aren't there for the game after Thanksgiving. And half of them leave at halftime too. If we had Tennessee-Martin on a weeknight, how well would we draw?

Non-saturday attendance since 2007:
Kent St: 13831
Ball St: 8237
CMU: 13543
Navy: 17950
EMU: 10527
Ball St: 13305
Toledo: 18472
Ball St: 12391
EMU: 15111
UMass: 11114
Toledo: 17813

(05-06-2013 07:12 PM)HuskieRak Wrote:  Wonder what a FoxSports1 or NBC Sports would offer?This current deal is such a joke. Sun Belt is making $1mil/school in their deal.

Good question. I hope the MAC shops the number from ESPN a little to those networks and CBS.

(05-06-2013 08:46 PM)HuskiePride12 Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 07:12 PM)HuskieRak Wrote:  Wonder what a FoxSports1 or NBC Sports would offer?This current deal is such a joke. Sun Belt is making $1mil/school in their deal.

Good question. I hope the MAC shops the number from ESPN a little to those networks and CBS.

They are re-negotiating they can't shop games around... It's in the middle of a deal. If ESPN wants to they can tell the MAC to live with the deal for another 4 years and there isn't anything we could do about it

(05-06-2013 08:31 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 07:07 PM)GjlNIU Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 06:29 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 05:42 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 05:27 PM)HuskiePride12 Wrote:  If they don't at least TRY to get into the deal that a MAC school gets one game a year on Sat on ESPN 2 they have no negotiation skills. 11am kickoff that is fine.

We get less fans for an 11am kickoff on Saturday than a November weeknight kickoff vs Toledo.

That's because we're playing Tennessee-Martin or Cal Poly on Saturday, and Toledo on a weeknight.

That is a factor, but more students also show up to the weeknight games since they are actually ON campus and not at home.

There are pro's and con's to both. If we compare the Kansas game and the Toledo game both have comparable attendance. The hatred of weeknight games and the attendance issues is a myth for NIU. Sure less of us can make it because of work, family obligations, etc. But so many more students come out to the game.

If DeKalb were exciting enough on the weekend for students to stick around might help attendance quite a bit.

The students only come out to the Toledo game on a weeknight. They aren't there for the game after Thanksgiving. And half of them leave at halftime too. If we had Tennessee-Martin on a weeknight, how well would we draw?

Non-saturday attendance since 2007:
Kent St: 13831
Ball St: 8237
CMU: 13543
Navy: 17950
EMU: 10527
Ball St: 13305
Toledo: 18472
Ball St: 12391
EMU: 15111
UMass: 11114
Toledo: 17813

I think some of this is misleading. At least for Miami, it has more to do with warm weather than what day we play. November games in the cold rain or snow dont draw good. It just happens we play the ESPN games in November so the midweek game is to blame even though its really the sleet, ice , and rain keeping them away.

Its like the old joke where the mad scientist see a frog with no legs and after commanding the frog to jump and it doesn't, concludes that frogs with no legs must be deaf.

What is the attendance numbers since 2007 for November Saturday games?

(05-06-2013 07:07 PM)GjlNIU Wrote:  That is a factor, but more students also show up to the weeknight games since they are actually ON campus and not at home.
There are pro's and con's to both. If we compare the Kansas game and the Toledo game both have comparable attendance. The hatred of weeknight games and the attendance issues is a myth for NIU. Sure less of us can make it because of work, family obligations, etc. But so many more students come out to the game.
If DeKalb were exciting enough on the weekend for students to stick around might help attendance quite a bit.

First and foremost, our student attendance doesn't enter into the equation because they're getting in for free and they don't stick around for the second half. The students in general are bandwagon jumpers, so an NIU vs. Toledo on a Saturday morning can be an excuse for them to have breakfast at some bar. Money -- from tickets, tailgating, concessions, etc. -- is made from season ticket holders and general public. So work, family obligations are a major concern and so is the fact local businesses are less willing to support the program when they get nothing from weeknight games. There's a bigger picture to be considered and DeKalb isn't "exciting" because the students don't make it "exciting."

The big thing about the ESPN weekday games is that they eat away at Saturday attendance too. NIU's season ticket base has never been lower than last year. Luckily an Orange Bowl appearance should boost our numbers slightly. It really hit me @ Toledo 2 years ago seeing a stadium 1/3rd full for such a huge game, just not right.

Our stadium has never been 1/3rd full for a Toledo game.

I really don't care what Toledo's attendance is either.

(05-06-2013 10:03 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 07:07 PM)GjlNIU Wrote:  That is a factor, but more students also show up to the weeknight games since they are actually ON campus and not at home.
There are pro's and con's to both. If we compare the Kansas game and the Toledo game both have comparable attendance. The hatred of weeknight games and the attendance issues is a myth for NIU. Sure less of us can make it because of work, family obligations, etc. But so many more students come out to the game.
If DeKalb were exciting enough on the weekend for students to stick around might help attendance quite a bit.

First and foremost, our student attendance doesn't enter into the equation because they're getting in for free and they don't stick around for the second half. The students in general are bandwagon jumpers, so an NIU vs. Toledo on a Saturday morning can be an excuse for them to have breakfast at some bar. Money -- from tickets, tailgating, concessions, etc. -- is made from season ticket holders and general public. So work, family obligations are a major concern and so is the fact local businesses are less willing to support the program when they get nothing from weeknight games. There's a bigger picture to be considered and DeKalb isn't "exciting" because the students don't make it "exciting."

Students do NOT get in FREE. Students (parents) are required to pay just over $500 each year for an athletic fee which includes admission to sporting events. NIU athletic programs are subsidized around $10,000,000 by this athletic fee.

I am sure most students would love to purchase just game tickets. NIU would be lucky to make $400,000 off purchased student tickets for football and basketball games. The Northern Star runs a story every year about this.

Most big time schools do not charge an athletic fee. U of I students do not pay an athletic fee and must purchase sporting event tickets.

(05-06-2013 10:27 PM)7 Wrote:  Our stadium has never been 1/3rd full for a Toledo game.

I really don't care what Toledo's attendance is either.

And at Huskie Stadium, you would be near capacity if it was on a Saturday.

What is especially concerning to me though is for teams in the middle and bottom tier who basically just do not have any fans show up mid week and are thus losing Saturday fans. Weeknight games could effectively end d1 football programs for about half of the MAC schools. Heck, maybe thats all part of the desired weeding out process, lets just hope we dont fall in that tier anytime soon.

(05-06-2013 10:31 PM)NIU75 Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 10:03 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 07:07 PM)GjlNIU Wrote:  That is a factor, but more students also show up to the weeknight games since they are actually ON campus and not at home.
There are pro's and con's to both. If we compare the Kansas game and the Toledo game both have comparable attendance. The hatred of weeknight games and the attendance issues is a myth for NIU. Sure less of us can make it because of work, family obligations, etc. But so many more students come out to the game.
If DeKalb were exciting enough on the weekend for students to stick around might help attendance quite a bit.

First and foremost, our student attendance doesn't enter into the equation because they're getting in for free and they don't stick around for the second half. The students in general are bandwagon jumpers, so an NIU vs. Toledo on a Saturday morning can be an excuse for them to have breakfast at some bar. Money -- from tickets, tailgating, concessions, etc. -- is made from season ticket holders and general public. So work, family obligations are a major concern and so is the fact local businesses are less willing to support the program when they get nothing from weeknight games. There's a bigger picture to be considered and DeKalb isn't "exciting" because the students don't make it "exciting."

Students do NOT get in FREE. Students (parents) are required to pay just over $500 each year for an athletic fee which includes admission to sporting events. NIU athletic programs are subsidized around $10,000,000 by this athletic fee.

I am sure most students would love to purchase just game tickets. NIU would be lucky to make $400,000 off purchased student tickets for football and basketball games. The Northern Star runs a story every year about this.

Most big time schools do not charge an athletic fee. U of I students do not pay an athletic fee and must purchase sporting event tickets.

+1 that athletic fee like every other fee always finds a way to go up a few bucks every year too. If it weren't for the athletic fee (I believe it's only for full time students) I can't image they'd even have enough money to fund much of anything with athletics.

(05-06-2013 08:31 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 07:07 PM)GjlNIU Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 06:29 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 05:42 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 05:27 PM)HuskiePride12 Wrote:  If they don't at least TRY to get into the deal that a MAC school gets one game a year on Sat on ESPN 2 they have no negotiation skills. 11am kickoff that is fine.

We get less fans for an 11am kickoff on Saturday than a November weeknight kickoff vs Toledo.

That's because we're playing Tennessee-Martin or Cal Poly on Saturday, and Toledo on a weeknight.

That is a factor, but more students also show up to the weeknight games since they are actually ON campus and not at home.

There are pro's and con's to both. If we compare the Kansas game and the Toledo game both have comparable attendance. The hatred of weeknight games and the attendance issues is a myth for NIU. Sure less of us can make it because of work, family obligations, etc. But so many more students come out to the game.

If DeKalb were exciting enough on the weekend for students to stick around might help attendance quite a bit.

The students only come out to the Toledo game on a weeknight. They aren't there for the game after Thanksgiving. And half of them leave at halftime too. If we had Tennessee-Martin on a weeknight, how well would we draw?

Non-saturday attendance since 2007:
Kent St: 13831
Ball St: 8237
CMU: 13543
Navy: 17950
EMU: 10527
Ball St: 13305
Toledo: 18472
Ball St: 12391
EMU: 15111
UMass: 11114
Toledo: 17813

Personally I thought more students stuck around for the whole game a good part of last season and were much louder and more into the game than years past. As for the attendance, I think weather and quality of the opponent is a much greater indicator than the day of the week. Quality of opponent is clearly a factor in the games listed above.

Plus if it gets us on TV it gets us on TV! The only way the MAC will ever be playing Saturday football on a basic cable channel is if the MAC can prove it can pull in the ratings. The harsh reality is and we all know it is that we live in the shadow of the Big 1000. People go to WMU, CMU, and EMU but they grew up fans of Michigan. People go to BSU but they grew up Perdue or IU fans. And in Chicago the majority of people don't care about college sports and if they do they care about ND.

So lets just enjoy the fact that we get to play on ESPN2, hope that NIU can make some more money with the renegotiation and try to go to as many week night games as we can because they are here to stay. Like it or not.

(05-06-2013 08:31 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 07:07 PM)GjlNIU Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 06:29 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 05:42 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 05:27 PM)HuskiePride12 Wrote:  If they don't at least TRY to get into the deal that a MAC school gets one game a year on Sat on ESPN 2 they have no negotiation skills. 11am kickoff that is fine.

We get less fans for an 11am kickoff on Saturday than a November weeknight kickoff vs Toledo.

That's because we're playing Tennessee-Martin or Cal Poly on Saturday, and Toledo on a weeknight.

That is a factor, but more students also show up to the weeknight games since they are actually ON campus and not at home.

There are pro's and con's to both. If we compare the Kansas game and the Toledo game both have comparable attendance. The hatred of weeknight games and the attendance issues is a myth for NIU. Sure less of us can make it because of work, family obligations, etc. But so many more students come out to the game.

If DeKalb were exciting enough on the weekend for students to stick around might help attendance quite a bit.

The students only come out to the Toledo game on a weeknight. They aren't there for the game after Thanksgiving. And half of them leave at halftime too. If we had Tennessee-Martin on a weeknight, how well would we draw?

Non-saturday attendance since 2007:
Kent St: 13831
Ball St: 8237
CMU: 13543
Navy: 17950
EMU: 10527
Ball St: 13305
Toledo: 18472
Ball St: 12391
EMU: 15111
UMass: 11114
Toledo: 17813

fyi, the games in bold were on saturdays (EMU was Friday of T'giving weekend).

That's only 7 weeknight games in 6 years. Trading (maybe) a couple thousand tickets once a year to play the only game on national TV that night is not a sacrifice, its a steal. Those who claim MACtion is bad for their fanbase have no evidence to support their claim.

With that being said, ESPN better kick out some more cash, we've earned it.

(05-06-2013 11:43 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 08:31 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 07:07 PM)GjlNIU Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 06:29 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 05:42 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  We get less fans for an 11am kickoff on Saturday than a November weeknight kickoff vs Toledo.

That's because we're playing Tennessee-Martin or Cal Poly on Saturday, and Toledo on a weeknight.

That is a factor, but more students also show up to the weeknight games since they are actually ON campus and not at home.

There are pro's and con's to both. If we compare the Kansas game and the Toledo game both have comparable attendance. The hatred of weeknight games and the attendance issues is a myth for NIU. Sure less of us can make it because of work, family obligations, etc. But so many more students come out to the game.

If DeKalb were exciting enough on the weekend for students to stick around might help attendance quite a bit.

The students only come out to the Toledo game on a weeknight. They aren't there for the game after Thanksgiving. And half of them leave at halftime too. If we had Tennessee-Martin on a weeknight, how well would we draw?

Non-saturday attendance since 2007:
Kent St: 13831
Ball St: 8237
CMU: 13543
Navy: 17950
EMU: 10527
Ball St: 13305
Toledo: 18472
Ball St: 12391
EMU: 15111
UMass: 11114
Toledo: 17813

fyi, the games in bold were on saturdays (EMU was Friday of T'giving weekend).

That's only 7 weeknight games in 6 years. Trading (maybe) a couple thousand tickets once a year to play the only game on national TV that night is not a sacrifice, its a steal. Those who claim MACtion is bad for their fanbase have no evidence to support their claim.

With that being said, ESPN better kick out some more cash, we've earned it.

+1

(05-06-2013 05:16 PM)NIUslumo Wrote:  From a weeknight game perspective, I can't envision a scenario where this gets better. ESPN has no interest in signing us up for Saturday games.

I understand the MAC, as long as we remain partnered with ESPN, has little chance of getting televised Saturday games. But if we are going to play weekday games then they should be shown on ESPN/ESPN2 and only pushed to ESPNU as a last resort. There should be no ESPN3-only games on weekdays. It makes little sense to hurt attendance and alienate fans by playing a weekday game to have it shown only online.

Also, move the MAC Championship game to Saturday. I could care less if it is shown on ESPNU. Let MAC fans have the opportunity to attend the MAC Championship. It is difficult to have fans travel 6+ hours on a weekday to see their team play.

And finally, there needs to be more money. If ESPN can afford to pay other conferences billions of dollars then they can surely afford to make sure each MAC school makes at least $2 million each.

(05-07-2013 12:17 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 05:16 PM)NIUslumo Wrote:  From a weeknight game perspective, I can't envision a scenario where this gets better. ESPN has no interest in signing us up for Saturday games.

I understand the MAC, as long as we remain partnered with ESPN, has little chance of getting televised Saturday games. But if we are going to play weekday games then they should be shown on ESPN/ESPN2 and only pushed to ESPNU as a last resort. There should be no ESPN3-only games on weekdays. It makes little sense to hurt attendance and alienate fans by playing a weekday game to have it shown only online.

Also, move the MAC Championship game to Saturday. I could care less if it is shown on ESPNU. Let MAC fans have the opportunity to attend the MAC Championship. It is difficult to have fans travel 6+ hours on a weekday to see their team play.

And finally, there needs to be more money. If ESPN can afford to pay other conferences billions of dollars then they can surely afford to make sure each MAC school makes at least $2 million each.

Hopefully ESPN views the MAC as worth that much money, that's a big jump from $100,000 per school. It'd be interesting to see if we could get something else going with NBC Sports Net. I'm pretty sure they only have the MVC.

(05-07-2013 12:26 AM)GjlNIU Wrote:  

(05-07-2013 12:17 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  And finally, there needs to be more money. If ESPN can afford to pay other conferences billions of dollars then they can surely afford to make sure each MAC school makes at least $2 million each.

Hopefully ESPN views the MAC as worth that much money, that's a big jump from $100,000 per school. It'd be interesting to see if we could get something else going with NBC Sports Net. I'm pretty sure they only have the MVC.

If a conference (CUSA) full of startup football programs, 1-AA programs, and Sun Belt schools can command $1 million each then certainly we should receive more.

I'm don't see the MAC having much sway in this; I can't imagine the negotiations are going to end with the results most seem to want. ESPN will probably cough up a little more money and get more years. I'd love to be wrong.

The MAC needs to let the four years run out and get the heck out of this trainwreck.

Be careful what you wish for.

Lots of beer muscles on this thread....