(04-30-2013 05:49 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  [quote='MTPiKapp' pid='9275009' dateline='1367084546']
[quote='Kit-Cat' pid='9274524' dateline='1367072371']
As for CUSA, i don't see any MAC schools leaving to join. That conference lost its best schools and is terribly unstable with membership spread out too far. I could see a MAC school opting for the MWC though.

But there is nothing that suggests that a MAC team would be attractive to the MWC.

(04-30-2013 05:56 AM)CajunExpress Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 05:49 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  As for CUSA, i don't see any MAC schools leaving to join. That conference lost its best schools and is terribly unstable with membership spread out too far. I could see a MAC school opting for the MWC though.

But there is nothing that suggests that a MAC team would be attractive to the MWC.

I was merely indicating what it would take for a MAC school to leave the MAC. No one is leaving the MAC to join CUSA.

(04-28-2013 01:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 06:40 AM)DawggoneEagle Wrote:  Well, all that I'n sure is true, but they are nationally recognized, a tradition rich institution, not exactly one of a kind, but unique. It would open up South Carolina as a new market. Charleston is a nice city for travel. Their attendance numbers are better than Georgia State's, though not as good as JSU or Liberty.
I'm not concerned with their enrollment numbers. Heck look at Miami and Wake Forrest, they aren't much different than Mercer's Macon campus.

Facility wise, they need little to do. I'm not saying they can come in and compete at the same level as Georgia Southern or Appalachian State, although neither an App fan nor a Georgia Southern fan can boast about The Citadel game on the 2012 schedule/results. But remember Georgia State was 1-10 in the CAA last year, The Citadel would have been all over them. Whose to say G.State can do any better.

Some student athletes need that kind of structure and turn out quite well, otherwise GMC wouldn't be the JUCO football factory that it is.
Insofar as the notion of "we're trying to get away from those kind of schools", I wouldn't characterize The Citadel in the same way as I would Samford, Elon, Furman, and Western Carolina.

Lastly, if The Citadel Mafia runs the State of South Carolina, what does that say about the Univ. South Carolina and Clem-&-Son. As a veteran, I say good for them !

Miami has over 10,000 students (over 15,000 including grads) and an endowment of 750 Million.

Wake Forest has an endowment of 1.5 Billion. And they have close to 5,000 undergrads. They also play in the ACC, which helps them tremendously with recruiting and budgeting.

Neither Miami nor Wake are really comparable to The Citadel.

And unfortunately we don't have the resources of receive the money of the ACC. So not sure why the comparison is valid.
The Citadel is what it is as we all are.

(04-27-2013 10:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-27-2013 07:59 PM)DawggoneEagle Wrote:  My first choice is still The Citadel, they are a natural progression in the footprint.

Here's the problem with the Citadel

1) If you didn't go there, you probably don't like them very much. Citadel grads run the state of South Carolina. Not just the government, but pretty much everything. They boost each other up (which to a point is a good thing). And everyone in SC knows it. And many resent it (mildly - but you don't go root for a school that you resent). As a result, The Citadel has the casual/local fan profile of a private school.

2) Citadel grads are very loyal to their school. But the problem is...there aren't many grads out there. The Citadel is tiny. For all their supposed power, they couldn't raise the money to take The Citadel private when they wanted to stay all male. The school has a total undergraduate enrollment of 2,000. That's it.

3) The Citadel can't compete at the FBS level. They'll never get the kind of recruits needed to compete at the FBS level. FBS level recruits aren't going to put up with the military stuff in any large numbers. They've had 3 winning seasons in the FCS in the last 20 years. And haven't finished better than 7-4 once during the last two decades.

A strange school with less than 2000 undergraduate students and a bad FCS success profile? I'm not sure the Citadel is even viable as a FBS program.

I don't hate the Citadel. I even went to their camp as a kid and 4 close relatives wear the ring. But they don't belong in FBS. That's just the reality.

When I first suggested them I knew there would be some opposititon, but, then when South announced the start up of a varsity football program and joining the SBC there was opposition from most of the football playing members. I am quite sure that The Citidel will not even be consideried, but if they were committed to moving up, then I'd like for them to be in the SBC.

The Citadel is probably happy to remain FCS and continue as they have for years, but would like them in the SB, doubt that will ever happen though because doubt they have the drive to do it. Probably glad GaSo and App is leaving the SoCon so that they can pretty much dominate it, especially if they bring in VMI and another school that they like.
UMass for football only would be a good remedy right now. They have not exactly set the world on fire in MAC football but they have been through transition.
JMU looks as if they are going to stand on the sidelines and watch the train go by. Surprising after building 1/2 a new stadium. People thought they were investing for FBS, but maybe it was just to be more competitive in FCS.

I really hope we are not seriously considering UMass.

I'd be thrilled with "citadel" but it will never happen.

Citadel? Seriously? Lord...this board goes to weird places sometimes. UMass too is just as absurd. It's getting to the point of self-parody. The conference is obviously desperate for options if Illinois State and Indiana State are turning them down. I say close our eyes and add Lamar. They got oil money.

North Dakota State is looking for a home, they are closer than Idaho and probably just as good. They would accept probably, there is a guy on the MAC board all the time trying to convince us.

(04-30-2013 10:11 AM)GaSouthern Wrote:  I really hope we are not seriously considering UMass.

I'd be thrilled with "citadel" but it will never happen.

There is no one aside from fans talking about UMass to the Sun Belt.

It's just offseason boredom getting the better of folks.

(04-30-2013 10:06 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  The Citadel is probably happy to remain FCS and continue as they have for years, but would like them in the SB, doubt that will ever happen though because doubt they have the drive to do it. Probably glad GaSo and App is leaving the SoCon so that they can pretty much dominate it, especially if they bring in VMI and another school that they like.
UMass for football only would be a good remedy right now. They have not exactly set the world on fire in MAC football but they have been through transition.
JMU looks as if they are going to stand on the sidelines and watch the train go by. Surprising after building 1/2 a new stadium. People thought they were investing for FBS, but maybe it was just to be more competitive in FCS.

JMU appears to be 'nah - we'll just build a massive stadium so we can host Elon and Coastal Carolina' because we think we're better than the Sun Belt'. I really don't see a MAC bid coming. Neither do I see a CUSA bid coming. I guess they could happen, but its really doubtful. Its frustrating, but its their decision. They don't want us. I think its time we moved on. At this point, I think I'd rather have a NDSU team not looking for the exits on day one as a football only member over JMU.

JMU should just share an AD with William and Mary, because it seems that they have the same attitude towards athletics.

Moving on to a decision. If we have to move this year, its looking like Jacksonville State. If we can wait till next year, lets see if we can snag Missouri State. Or see if UTA wants to move up. If we go for a Southland moveup, I say SHSU over Lamar.

I think its obvious that JMU thinks they're better than the Belt. Many in Appy thought that too. But unlike Appy, JMU might not get another bite at the apple.

(04-30-2013 11:16 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 10:06 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  The Citadel is probably happy to remain FCS and continue as they have for years, but would like them in the SB, doubt that will ever happen though because doubt they have the drive to do it. Probably glad GaSo and App is leaving the SoCon so that they can pretty much dominate it, especially if they bring in VMI and another school that they like.
UMass for football only would be a good remedy right now. They have not exactly set the world on fire in MAC football but they have been through transition.
JMU looks as if they are going to stand on the sidelines and watch the train go by. Surprising after building 1/2 a new stadium. People thought they were investing for FBS, but maybe it was just to be more competitive in FCS.

JMU appears to be 'nah - we'll just build a massive stadium so we can host Elon and Coastal Carolina' because we think we're better than the Sun Belt'. I really don't see a MAC bid coming. Neither do I see a CUSA bid coming. I guess they could happen, but its really doubtful. Its frustrating, but its their decision. They don't want us. I think its time we moved on. At this point, I think I'd rather have a NDSU team not looking for the exits on day one as a football only member over JMU.

JMU should just share an AD with William and Mary, because it seems that they have the same attitude towards athletics.

Moving on to a decision. If we have to move this year, its looking like Jacksonville State. If we can wait till next year, lets see if we can snag Missouri State. Or see if UTA wants to move up. If we go for a Southland moveup, I say SHSU over Lamar.

I think its obvious that JMU thinks they're better than the Belt. Many in Appy thought that too. But unlike Appy, JMU might not get another bite at the apple.

Don't look at it as if too good, some at App wanted CUSA really badly when East Carolina was in CUSA. They were one of our closest rivals for years. Marshall also to some extent. Plus would have been easier travel, more local. Didn't mean that we thought any less of the Sun Belt.

(04-30-2013 11:16 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 10:06 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  The Citadel is probably happy to remain FCS and continue as they have for years, but would like them in the SB, doubt that will ever happen though because doubt they have the drive to do it. Probably glad GaSo and App is leaving the SoCon so that they can pretty much dominate it, especially if they bring in VMI and another school that they like.
UMass for football only would be a good remedy right now. They have not exactly set the world on fire in MAC football but they have been through transition.
JMU looks as if they are going to stand on the sidelines and watch the train go by. Surprising after building 1/2 a new stadium. People thought they were investing for FBS, but maybe it was just to be more competitive in FCS.

JMU appears to be 'nah - we'll just build a massive stadium so we can host Elon and Coastal Carolina' because we think we're better than the Sun Belt'. I really don't see a MAC bid coming. Neither do I see a CUSA bid coming. I guess they could happen, but its really doubtful. Its frustrating, but its their decision. They don't want us. I think its time we moved on. At this point, I think I'd rather have a NDSU team not looking for the exits on day one as a football only member over JMU.

JMU should just share an AD with William and Mary, because it seems that they have the same attitude towards athletics.

Moving on to a decision. If we have to move this year, its looking like Jacksonville State. If we can wait till next year, lets see if we can snag Missouri State. Or see if UTA wants to move up. If we go for a Southland moveup, I say SHSU over Lamar.

I think its obvious that JMU thinks they're better than the Belt. Many in Appy thought that too. But unlike Appy, JMU might not get another bite at the apple.

Im pretty confident that if UMass joins the MAC all sports that #14 will be either JMU or Delaware. JMU is definitely going FBS and their stalling of the Sun Belt likely means CUSA or The MAC is in play. Karl Benson can huff and puff all he wants but JMU is calling his bluff. The MAC wont stay at an odd number so its in the UMass court whether we will be a 12 or 14 team league and JMU is waiting to see how it plays out.

Why would any school want to go to the MAC when they could come to the Sun Belt? Nah, that dog doesn't hunt.

(04-30-2013 12:19 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Why would any school want to go to the MAC when they could come to the Sun Belt? Nah, that dog doesn't hunt.

JMU fans showed a map of where their alumni live. Their are few in the South, most are from Virginia north to Massachusetts (UMass) and New York (U at Buffalo). They also would like some closer academic peers. No sense discussing this though as you wont agree and I cant convince you but their is a reason they have spurned the Sun Belt bid even though openings are closing. It could very well that ODU and Marshall are lobbying JMU to CUSA still although that is less likely now. I highly doubt they join the Sun Belt though or they already would have.

If the MAC goes to 14 with Delaware instead of JMU and CUSA isnt adding any more, than JMU will go football only to the SBC. That is definitely plausible.

Some may but a lot of people seem to not want JMU in CUSA. Wonder if their support is just lip service.
JMU probably realizes they would not win a lot of games in the Sun Belt is probably a big problem also.
If their students do come from that area of the NE a lot would think they would want in the SB even more.

(04-30-2013 08:34 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 05:56 AM)CajunExpress Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 05:49 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  As for CUSA, i don't see any MAC schools leaving to join. That conference lost its best schools and is terribly unstable with membership spread out too far. I could see a MAC school opting for the MWC though.

But there is nothing that suggests that a MAC team would be attractive to the MWC.

I was merely indicating what it would take for a MAC school to leave the MAC. No one is leaving the MAC to join CUSA.

I wonder why not? Evidently it's a hip, happ'nin place...:bolt:

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(04-30-2013 12:31 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  If the MAC goes to 14 with Delaware instead of JMU and CUSA isnt adding any more, than JMU will go football only to the SBC. That is definitely plausible.

Why would you go to 14? Divides up the money and saddles you with another moveup. I'd make UMASS sign a grant of rights before I tried to add a team to help them. Although Harrisonburg is a LOONG way from Amherst. I'm not sure how JMU "helps" balance UMass.

JMU wants to play in CUSA. If you take them, get ready for another Marshall situation. Or UCF situation.

I think you guys got stuck with UMass because you tried to help out who really wanted to play elsewhere (Temple). Temple left anyway. UMass will too, if they get good enough to warrent an AAC bid.

UMass is a no win situation for the MAC. If they don't suck, they'll leave. And if they show a pulse and some attendence, they'll get a bid to go somewhere else. And if you take a moveup to 'help' them out, you might get stuck with a team you probably didn't want anyway.

The Belt took Denver to balance out NMSU. It was a mistake (NMSU then left). CUSA took ODU and UNCC to balance out ECU. ECU then left (it remains to be seen if those were good ads, but I think CUSA would rather have ASU and ULL at this point). You guys took UMass to balance out Temple.

UD is about as likely to move up at this point as Sam Houston. Maybe in 4 or 5 years, but right now.....nah.

However UMass to the Belt would solve our immediate problem of needing 12 football playing schools
for the 2014 championship game.

(04-30-2013 12:31 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  If the MAC goes to 14 with Delaware instead of JMU and CUSA isnt adding any more, than JMU will go football only to the SBC. That is definitely plausible.

What would be the benefit of the MAC going to 14? I would think if anything, they'd be looking to reduce down to 12.