Both Congressional Republicans and Democrats dont like it.

Must be a good budget!

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/10/news/eco...?hpt=hp_t4

That does not mean it is the best plan for our Country.

(04-10-2013 11:01 AM)BobL Wrote:  Both Congressional Republicans and Democrats dont like it.

Must be a good budget!

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/10/news/eco...?hpt=hp_t4

Nice logic. It was meant to be something nobody wanted. "Look I put out an unworkable BUdget once again. What a great leader I am."

(04-10-2013 12:28 PM)HuskieJ Wrote:  

(04-10-2013 11:01 AM)BobL Wrote:  Both Congressional Republicans and Democrats dont like it.

Must be a good budget!

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/10/news/eco...?hpt=hp_t4

Nice logic. It was meant to be something nobody wanted. "Look I put out an unworkable BUdget once again. What a great leader I am."

You and klake(and others) are unreal...there are provisions that republicans want and provisions that democrats want...hence each is unhappy. Perhaps he should have just included dem issues...

as my kids say haters will hate...

His last budget was unanimously voted down by both sides of the aisle. That must have been a wonderful budget!

bobl just because he put out a budget that both sides don't like does not mean that it is a good budget. Is it balanced. Does it help to get people off welfare. does it move us toward energy independence. It like the Obama care budget. Have to pass it to see whats in it

(04-10-2013 11:01 AM)BobL Wrote:  Both Congressional Republicans and Democrats dont like it.

Must be a good budget!

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/10/news/eco...?hpt=hp_t4

Prez budget - DOA
House budget - DOA
Senate budget - DOA

3 for 3

(04-10-2013 02:00 PM)klake87 Wrote:  bobl just because he put out a budget that both sides don't like does not mean that it is a good budget. Is it balanced. Does it help to get people off welfare. does it move us toward energy independence. It like the Obama care budget. Have to pass it to see whats in it

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/po...oposal/94/

He can't read. He' ll tune in to Fox to get the Fair and Balanced explanation.

Obama's budget uses a declining interest rate on the increasing debt. Does anyone think the Chinese will take less interest as our debt increases? I don't.

(04-10-2013 02:00 PM)klake87 Wrote:  bobl just because he put out a budget that both sides don't like does not mean that it is a good budget. Is it balanced. Does it help to get people off welfare. does it move us toward energy independence. It like the Obama care budget. Have to pass it to see whats in it

Well, it slows the amount of money those on SS get so the Repubs should be happy- firt step to elimination or privatization.

(04-11-2013 12:10 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Well, it slows the amount of money those on SS get so the Repubs should be happy- firt step to elimination or privatization.

Or leave it as-is and it eliminates itself by going broke.

Even if nothing was done until 2035 and the trust fund ran out as the trustees project, it wouldn't "go broke" and "eliminate itself." It would simply scale back payments so that it paid out what it took in, and that's assuming Congress doesn't step in to fund it some other way.

(04-11-2013 10:13 AM)Max Power Wrote:  Even if nothing was done until 2035 and the trust fund ran out as the trustees project, it wouldn't "go broke" and "eliminate itself." It would simply scale back payments so that it paid out what it took in, and that's assuming Congress doesn't step in to fund it some other way.

There is no trust fund. The trust fund is full of IOU's, which are worthless. At the moment the "trust fund," needs to be tapped, those shortfalls will be covered with general revenues.

(04-11-2013 09:23 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(04-11-2013 12:10 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Well, it slows the amount of money those on SS get so the Repubs should be happy- firt step to elimination or privatization.

Or leave it as-is and it eliminates itself by going broke.

and/or means test. Keep in mind...any means testing must assure that everyone gets back what they contributed.

(04-11-2013 11:00 AM)BobL Wrote:  

(04-11-2013 09:23 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(04-11-2013 12:10 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Well, it slows the amount of money those on SS get so the Repubs should be happy- firt step to elimination or privatization.

Or leave it as-is and it eliminates itself by going broke.

and/or means test. Keep in mind...any means testing must assure that everyone gets back what they contributed.

That is reasonable. With interest? What if revenues don't cover that though? I don't know.

I do believe that ss needs to be essentially eliminated/dramatically restructured. However, that must be a planned/long term transition. My point was that doing nothing now, not making a decision, is really actually making a decision to let it die on the vine. I think a planned transition is a much better idea.

(04-11-2013 10:55 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(04-11-2013 10:13 AM)Max Power Wrote:  Even if nothing was done until 2035 and the trust fund ran out as the trustees project, it wouldn't "go broke" and "eliminate itself." It would simply scale back payments so that it paid out what it took in, and that's assuming Congress doesn't step in to fund it some other way.

There is no trust fund. The trust fund is full of IOU's, which are worthless. At the moment the "trust fund," needs to be tapped, those shortfalls will be covered with general revenues.

I dont believe that is correct..

Through 2022, the annual cash deficits will be made up by
redeeming trust fund assets from the General Fund of the Treasury.
Because these redemptions will be less than interest earnings, trust fund balances will continue to grow. After 2022, trust fund assets will be redeemed in amounts that exceed interest earnings until trust fund reserves are exhausted in 2036, one year earlier than was projected last year. Thereafter, tax income would be sufficient to pay only about three quarters of scheduled benefits through 2085.

http://www.ssa.gov/history/pdf/tr11summary.pdf

(04-11-2013 11:13 AM)BobL Wrote:  I dont believe that is correct..

Through 2022, the annual cash deficits will be made up by
redeeming trust fund assets from the General Fund of the Treasury.
Because these redemptions will be less than interest earnings, trust fund balances will continue to grow. After 2022, trust fund assets will be redeemed in amounts that exceed interest earnings until trust fund reserves are exhausted in 2036, one year earlier than was projected last year. Thereafter, tax income would be sufficient to pay only about three quarters of scheduled benefits through 2085.

http://www.ssa.gov/history/pdf/tr11summary.pdf

But the trust fund loans the principal out. There is no trust fund account with cash sitting in it. That money is spent every year on other things. When revenues no longer fulfill redemptions, general funds will be used to repay those IOU's.

We loan the money to ourselves and are paying interest to ourselves. So there is no real growth due to interest either.

(04-11-2013 11:28 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(04-11-2013 11:13 AM)BobL Wrote:  I dont believe that is correct..

Through 2022, the annual cash deficits will be made up by
redeeming trust fund assets from the General Fund of the Treasury.
Because these redemptions will be less than interest earnings, trust fund balances will continue to grow. After 2022, trust fund assets will be redeemed in amounts that exceed interest earnings until trust fund reserves are exhausted in 2036, one year earlier than was projected last year. Thereafter, tax income would be sufficient to pay only about three quarters of scheduled benefits through 2085.

http://www.ssa.gov/history/pdf/tr11summary.pdf

But the trust fund loans the principal out. There is no trust fund account with cash sitting in it. That money is spent every year on other things. When revenues no longer fulfill redemptions, general funds will be used to repay those IOU's.

We loan the money to ourselves and are paying interest to ourselves. So there is no real growth due to interest either.

there is a trust Fund with the monies "invested in Special Issue Bonds". These bonds have maturity dates and earn interest. To say the money is loaned out or is in IOU's is misleading at best.

http://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/investheld.cgi

(04-11-2013 11:41 AM)BobL Wrote:  there is a trust Fund with the monies "invested in Special Issue Bonds". These bonds have maturity dates and earn interest. To say the money is loaned out or is in IOU's is misleading at best.

http://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/investheld.cgi

It absolutely is correct and not misleading.

Who is obligated to repay those bonds? Who received the cash payments?

When those bonds were "purchased," where did the cash go? Into the general fund, where it was spent.

When those bonds are paid back, and when the interest is paid, where do those funds come from? Back out of the general fund.

Those bonds were not sold by the City of Schaumburg who then used the money to build a sewer plant. The City would then pay the funds back to the bondholder with interest.

Those bonds, instead, were sold to the federal government, by the federal government. The cash was put into the general fund and spent. It is gone. To pay back a bond, today, would require today's other tax revenue to be used. The money was simply shifted from the left hand to the right hand.

There is no account with any "surplus" payroll taxes. It is rolled into the general fund and spent.

The below is cut and pasted from the SSA page. Notice the quote "because the government spends this borrowed cash."

As stated above, money flowing into the trust funds is invested in U. S. Government securities. Because the government spends this borrowed cash, some people see the trust fund assets as an accumulation of securities that the government will be unable to make good on in the future. Without legislation to restore long-range solvency of the trust funds, redemption of long-term securities prior to maturity would be necessary.
Far from being "worthless IOUs," the investments held by the trust funds are backed by the full faith and credit of the U. S. Government. The government has always repaid Social Security, with interest. The special-issue securities are, therefore, just as safe as U.S. Savings Bonds or other financial instruments of the Federal government.

Many options are being considered to restore long-range trust fund solvency. These options are being considered now, over 20 years in advance of the year the funds are likely to be exhausted. It is thus likely that legislation will be enacted to restore long-term solvency, making it unlikely that the trust funds' securities will need to be redeemed on a large scale prior to maturity.