The FCS is being crippled and literally killed off as more and more prominent programs going FBS.
When will the Montanas and other Big Sky schools make the move up?

For that matter, can the whole Big Sky conference just move up to FBS??

(04-08-2013 09:41 AM)HERD-it-wuz-DJ Wrote:  The FCS is being crippled and literally killed off as more and more prominent programs going FBS.
When will the Montanas and other Big Sky schools make the move up?

For that matter, can the whole Big Sky conference just move up to FBS??

They had their chance. The WAC desperately tried to attract some Big Sky schools to save itself, but the BS held together. Now the WAC is gone as a FBS alternative. With the new conference lineups almost set, and the current rule requiring an invitation from an FBS conference in order to move up, the opportunity to move up may be lost for the forseeable future

(04-08-2013 09:41 AM)HERD-it-wuz-DJ Wrote:  The FCS is being crippled and literally killed off as more and more prominent programs going FBS.
When will the Montanas and other Big Sky schools make the move up?

For that matter, can the whole Big Sky conference just move up to FBS??

It may be more likley that the bottom tier of FBS will become FCS than it is the whole Big Sky will move up to FBS. If there is some sort of split where upper FBS becomes 60-80 schools, Im not sure a 40 school lower FBS division makes alot of sense. I could see some current FCS schools being shifted to the bottom division of FBS or the bottom portion of FBS becoming part of FCS.

FCS is not dying. It will be fine. Other schools will step up. When Boise, Idaho, Marshall, and Nevada left, the Montana schools had crappy stadiums, were lucky to get crowds over 7K. People were talking about the death of I-AA then.

App State 16 years ago was just another Southern Conference team. The Dakota schools were still D2

Montana schools were not ready a few years ago, and if they had jumped, they'd be in Idaho's shoes right now.

FCS is shrinking outside of the Big Sky. 2 of the top conferences have lost multiple teams- CAA and Southern. Southland lost a team.

What will kill FCS is when the FBS schools stop scheduling those schools. Big Ten has already done that. Others will soon follow.

(04-08-2013 10:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  FCS is shrinking outside of the Big Sky. 2 of the top conferences have lost multiple teams- CAA and Southern. Southland lost a team.

What will kill FCS is when the FBS schools stop scheduling those schools. Big Ten has already done that. Others will soon follow.

Kennesaw State is adding a team. Houston Baptist is adding a team. Incarnate Word and Abliene Christian, both solid programs, are moving to FCS. North Alabama, another solid program, wants to move to FCS.

Second item is worrying, but we will see if that lasts

(04-08-2013 10:49 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 10:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  FCS is shrinking outside of the Big Sky. 2 of the top conferences have lost multiple teams- CAA and Southern. Southland lost a team.

What will kill FCS is when the FBS schools stop scheduling those schools. Big Ten has already done that. Others will soon follow.

Kennesaw State is adding a team. Houston Baptist is adding a team. Incarnate Word and Abliene Christian, both solid programs, are moving to FCS. North Alabama, another solid program, wants to move to FCS.

Second item is worrying, but we will see if that lasts

That's the thing though. you're starting to see a much different system
you have the g5 teams
then you have the rest of the fbs schools- this is becoming more and more what FCS was
then you have FCS, which is becoming more and more like D2.

I think you'll find FBS move up to about 150 schools or so- another 20 or so.

(04-08-2013 09:53 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 09:41 AM)HERD-it-wuz-DJ Wrote:  The FCS is being crippled and literally killed off as more and more prominent programs going FBS.
When will the Montanas and other Big Sky schools make the move up?

For that matter, can the whole Big Sky conference just move up to FBS??

They had their chance. The WAC desperately tried to attract some Big Sky schools to save itself, but the BS held together. Now the WAC is gone as a FBS alternative. With the new conference lineups almost set, and the current rule requiring an invitation from an FBS conference in order to move up, the opportunity to move up may be lost for the forseeable future

This. Montana and Montana State missed the boat. Unless the Sun Belt wants more football-only only members, they have no FBS option.

(04-08-2013 10:04 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 09:41 AM)HERD-it-wuz-DJ Wrote:  The FCS is being crippled and literally killed off as more and more prominent programs going FBS.
When will the Montanas and other Big Sky schools make the move up?

For that matter, can the whole Big Sky conference just move up to FBS??

It may be more likley that the bottom tier of FBS will become FCS than it is the whole Big Sky will move up to FBS. If there is some sort of split where upper FBS becomes 60-80 schools, Im not sure a 40 school lower FBS division makes alot of sense. I could see some current FCS schools being shifted to the bottom division of FBS or the bottom portion of FBS becoming part of FCS.

Current FBS schools will not drop back to a level with current FCS programs. If anything, I see a scenario where the top 5 have their championship and CUSA, MAC, SBC, MWC, and AAC have a championship of their own.

Many of the schools left in FCS have facilities on par with some high schools. Every school in FBS has made huge financial commitments to their facilities and there is no way they'll go back to competing with DI programs that have DII or DIII level facilities and support.

(04-08-2013 10:58 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 10:04 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 09:41 AM)HERD-it-wuz-DJ Wrote:  The FCS is being crippled and literally killed off as more and more prominent programs going FBS.
When will the Montanas and other Big Sky schools make the move up?

For that matter, can the whole Big Sky conference just move up to FBS??

It may be more likley that the bottom tier of FBS will become FCS than it is the whole Big Sky will move up to FBS. If there is some sort of split where upper FBS becomes 60-80 schools, Im not sure a 40 school lower FBS division makes alot of sense. I could see some current FCS schools being shifted to the bottom division of FBS or the bottom portion of FBS becoming part of FCS.

Current FBS schools will not drop back to a level with current FCS programs. If anything, I see a scenario where the top 5 have their championship and CUSA, MAC, SBC, MWC, and AAC have a championship of their own.

Many of the schools left in FCS have facilities on par with some high schools. Every school in FBS has made huge financial commitments to their facilities and there is no way they'll go back to competing with DI programs that have DII or DIII level facilities and support.

I really dont see a full drop back to FCS to be honest. I think what is more likely is an upper FBS league with the top 70-80 schools (about the historical average size for the top level of college football). A lower FBS which likley includes many of the larger current FCS programs (to make it a reasonable size). The smaller FCS programs you referenced would continue to exist in the FCS division. Now, might it be that FBS simply eliminates the lower third of its membership and FCS has an upper and lower division---yes, that could happen and it would essentially look the same. However, thats probably not palatable to those at the FBS level, so you probably see a lower FBS division with most of the top programs from FCS added.

Please montana and most of the FCS cannot come up with the cash to increase scholarships and add new programs to go FBS. As the top FBS programs schedule fewer FCS schools the lose of the payday will cause the FCS as a whole to offer fewer scholarships and reduce programs. FCS will not die but it will offer a lower level of play then it does today.

Big boys need the g5 for scheduling purposes. If the AQ5 only play themselves they only get 6 home games and that won't fly with their current budgets. G5 is fine and going nowhere for that reason. They will have just enough money to survive but that is about it. Appy and GSU are jumping up as they see there won't be many more openings in the G5. with a fixed payout from the playoffs the g5 won't keep expanding and diluting the payout to each school so the upward movement is about done imho.

I could see Montana by themselves being an attractive replacement school for any future loss the MWC might have. UM in FBS would deliver pretty much all of MT's 1 mil population.

Of course that ignores many realities and probably won't happen and any future MWC expansion will probably be Cali schools

(04-08-2013 10:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  FCS is shrinking outside of the Big Sky. 2 of the top conferences have lost multiple teams- CAA and Southern. Southland lost a team.

Practically the entire Sunbelt and much of the current CUSA was once FCS, so movement from FCS to FBS is nothing new.

Quote:What will kill FCS is when the FBS schools stop scheduling those schools. Big Ten has already done that. Others will soon follow.

Wisconsin's Barry Alvarez was the one that said the Big Ten would stop scheduling FCS, but he was only speaking for his own school. The idea of losing to Northern Iowa and Cal Poly, both of which the Badgers barely squeaked by recently, were just too much for him to take. Minnesota has been a total embarrassment to the Big Ten, going 2-3 versus the Dakota schools in recent years (and the two wins should have gone the other way).

I don't think Alvarez was just speaking for his school. I think he said Big Ten not playing FCS schools.

Would be very interested to see if they reinsert the rule about having 1 FCS win every 4 years count towards bowl eligibility. That would end the FCS games to a large degree.

(04-08-2013 12:24 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think Alvarez was just speaking for his school. I think he said Big Ten not playing FCS schools.

Would be very interested to see if they reinsert the rule about having 1 FCS win every 4 years count towards bowl eligibility. That would end the FCS games to a large degree.

Quote:FARGO – Upon further review, North Dakota State athletic director Gene Taylor said talk of the Big Ten Conference banning its schools from playing Football Championship Subdivision programs is just that. Talk.
“It’s just a discussion point,” Taylor said. “Hold on to your hats. It’s not time to panic.”

Taylor’s comments were in response to those made by University of Wisconsin athletic director Barry Alvarez, who told a Madison, Wis., radio station that Big Ten officials agreed to stop playing FCS opponents, a division that includes North Dakota State and the University of North Dakota.

Taylor said he got his information from another Big Ten athletic director on Wednesday, who told him some schools in the power conference don’t want to give up the FCS game.

“One of (the ADs) said we’re not all in the upper echelon of the Big Ten,” Taylor said. “We need those guys. Our coaches would hang us if we played only non-FCS teams.”

https://secure.forumcomm.com/?publisher_...N=47058658

(04-08-2013 11:57 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I could see Montana by themselves being an attractive replacement school for any future loss the MWC might have. UM in FBS would deliver pretty much all of MT's 1 mil population.

Of course that ignores many realities and probably won't happen and any future MWC expansion will probably be Cali schools

Montana has had, shall we say, judicial issues, that inhibited any move up. Montana State athletics has some rather substantial debt after their stadium expansion that must be addressed.

Longer-term, the economy of Bozeman (much more entrepreneurial with a deeper science and engineering base) will surpass the ability of Missoula's flower children to support FBS. Bozeman also is much closer to Billings, which is booming.

(04-08-2013 01:20 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 11:57 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I could see Montana by themselves being an attractive replacement school for any future loss the MWC might have. UM in FBS would deliver pretty much all of MT's 1 mil population.

Of course that ignores many realities and probably won't happen and any future MWC expansion will probably be Cali schools

Montana has had, shall we say, judicial issues, that inhibited any move up. Montana State athletics has some rather substantial debt after their stadium expansion that must be addressed.

Longer-term, the economy of Bozeman (much more entrepreneurial with a deeper science and engineering base) will surpass the ability of Missoula's flower children to support FBS. Bozeman also is much closer to Billings, which is booming.

Actually Agree. IN the long run Montana State is in a much better position to make a move to FBS. They have more big $$ boosters and access to a larger market with Billings being close. ANd yes Billings is booming and projected to cross the 160,000 mark in less then 10 years

(04-08-2013 12:41 PM)FargoBison Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 12:24 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think Alvarez was just speaking for his school. I think he said Big Ten not playing FCS schools.

Would be very interested to see if they reinsert the rule about having 1 FCS win every 4 years count towards bowl eligibility. That would end the FCS games to a large degree.

Quote:FARGO – Upon further review, North Dakota State athletic director Gene Taylor said talk of the Big Ten Conference banning its schools from playing Football Championship Subdivision programs is just that. Talk.
“It’s just a discussion point,” Taylor said. “Hold on to your hats. It’s not time to panic.”

Taylor’s comments were in response to those made by University of Wisconsin athletic director Barry Alvarez, who told a Madison, Wis., radio station that Big Ten officials agreed to stop playing FCS opponents, a division that includes North Dakota State and the University of North Dakota.

Taylor said he got his information from another Big Ten athletic director on Wednesday, who told him some schools in the power conference don’t want to give up the FCS game.

“One of (the ADs) said we’re not all in the upper echelon of the Big Ten,” Taylor said. “We need those guys. Our coaches would hang us if we played only non-FCS teams.”

https://secure.forumcomm.com/?publisher_...N=47058658

Big money TV will not tolerate FCS games for much longer and pay top dollar. MWC and AAC are being encouraged to upgrade their OOC games to make them more attractive for TV. FCS games against the top teams will be occurring at a much lower rate shortly. With the PAC and the BIG at 9 game seasons and a strength of schedule component being added to who makes the playoff games it is only a matter of time. FCS is living off the FBS dime and that can't last.

(04-08-2013 12:21 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 10:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  FCS is shrinking outside of the Big Sky. 2 of the top conferences have lost multiple teams- CAA and Southern. Southland lost a team.

Practically the entire Sunbelt and much of the current CUSA was once FCS, so movement from FCS to FBS is nothing new.

Quote:What will kill FCS is when the FBS schools stop scheduling those schools. Big Ten has already done that. Others will soon follow.

Wisconsin's Barry Alvarez was the one that said the Big Ten would stop scheduling FCS, but he was only speaking for his own school. The idea of losing to Northern Iowa and Cal Poly, both of which the Badgers barely squeaked by recently, were just too much for him to take. Minnesota has been a total embarrassment to the Big Ten, going 2-3 versus the Dakota schools in recent years (and the two wins should have gone the other way).

B10 attendance like nearly every other conference at ever level has been dropping. Even diehard alumni do not want to pony up $60-$100 to watch an FCS team, even good ones. Attendance drops of 3-5K per game means that minor sports get dropped.

The BCS conferences are struggling to maintain their air of superiority while some of their lesser teams fall to some of the better FCS teams (JAX State defeated MS State in Starkville). The money is still on their side however as shown ina national research study in 2010 (the latest year for complete figures). I put the research results on Blazertalk.com in the Bar & Grill Forum, if you care to look.

In 2010, the MEDIAN SEC school spent $163,931 per athlete for #1 rank in the BCS, and the lowest in the BCS was the Big East's median school at only $102,020 per athlete.

In spending for the regular students, there was only about $9,000 per pupil difference between #1 the Big 10 and the lowest D1 conference median school while in spending for athletes the difference between just #1 -SEC and #2 - Big 12 was over $36,000.