I'd love to see what the 01-02 team and the 04-05 team would have done vs this years version of CUSA. I'd also like to see VCU trying to press Burks in Atlantis. As for the 03-04 team they lost to a team full of pros who went to the final four. Talk about a team that got shafted in seeding.
Cal did a great job motivating and challenging our players. Pastner is learning and he has a more restrained personality that X.
CJP is doing a great job, but this core from the get go has had a milk and cookies personality. Nothing wrong with that but sometimes you need some jalapeno pepper in the mix. CDR absolutely hated to lose.
Geron was a great addition but we still need a little more attitude. I'm not sure if any of our newcomers fit that bill..Burks and Andre Allen were both bulldogs.
Our guards and wings will be among the best in the nation next year. Hopefully our bigs will let it all hang out next season, esp Tarik. The bigs should be more free to play without worrying about fouls with the addition of Nichols.
In the mean time I hope they are all working on free throws
(03-30-2013 06:44 PM)rolexjames Wrote: Both coaches recruiting according to personality. Cal is a tough mean cuss and Josh is not. Josh's a competitor but he's not emotional. Cal wears his emotions on his sleeve. It's reflected in the players. Joey, CDR, Sean Banks, Billy Richmond, Shawn Taggart all emotional. Earl Barron was not and he and Cal didn't get along. Cal had kids that would fight in a heart beat. Josh doesn't or haven't recruited those players except for Geron.
Also, the practice styles are different. Cal practices were designed to crack you so you would develop some mental toughness, Josh practice is about skill development.
It's not a criticism just an observation.
Really? Josh isn't emotional?
I would submit that Josh's forth year team was just as tough as Cal's forth year team and would beat them 9 times out of ten.
Burks, Banks, Hunt and Barclay.
Child please.
Beat that team?
That team had 2 NBA players (Burks and Carney) as well as (freshman Banks) who was an NBA talent that year. Plus Jeremy Hunt.
It would have been a close game and this year's team would probably come out on top. Burks would probably have his way with JJ, but the 2013 frontline would have had problems with foul trouble against the 2004 frontline of Erwin, Barclay and Lopez. The 2004 team didn't shoot very well, and had very similar rebounding and turnover numbers.
Depth would play a major part. Once you get past the starting 5; next in line for minutes played were Erwin, Lopez and Barclay. None of the bigs were in the top 5 of minutes played. Every single guard on the team (Burks, Hunt, Rice) played starter minutes.
(03-30-2013 06:44 PM)rolexjames Wrote: Both coaches recruiting according to personality. Cal is a tough mean cuss and Josh is not. Josh's a competitor but he's not emotional. Cal wears his emotions on his sleeve. It's reflected in the players. Joey, CDR, Sean Banks, Billy Richmond, Shawn Taggart all emotional. Earl Barron was not and he and Cal didn't get along. Cal had kids that would fight in a heart beat. Josh doesn't or haven't recruited those players except for Geron.
Also, the practice styles are different. Cal practices were designed to crack you so you would develop some mental toughness, Josh practice is about skill development.
It's not a criticism just an observation.
Really? Josh isn't emotional?
I would submit that Josh's forth year team was just as tough as Cal's forth year team and would beat them 9 times out of ten.
Burks, Banks, Hunt and Barclay.
Child please.
Beat that team?
That team had 2 NBA players (Burks and Carney) as well as (freshman Banks) who was an NBA talent that year. Plus Jeremy Hunt.
It would have been a close game and this year's team would probably come out on top. Burks would probably have his way with JJ, but the 2013 frontline would have had problems with foul trouble against the 2004 frontline of Erwin, Barclay and Lopez. The 2004 team didn't shoot very well, and had very similar rebounding and turnover numbers.
Depth would play a major part. Once you get past the starting 5; next in line for minutes played were Erwin, Lopez and Barclay. None of the bigs were in the top 5 of minutes played. Every single guard on the team (Burks, Hunt, Rice) played starter minutes.
Fair assessment, but as for depth...the 2013 (in all reality) had little depth.
vs. MSU, Memphis only played seven players and even vs. USM in the CUSA final (2OT) Memphis only played seven players...four of which played 40+ minutes.
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2013 01:56 PM by salukiblue.)
Classic example of Sagarin and Kenpom throwing out stupid, meaningless numbers, and rewarding teams for losing games. The 2005 team was 19-15 with home losses to Ole Piss, Louisiana Tech, Providence, and TCU and road losses to UAB, Houston, and St. Louis.
...yet somehow Kenpom had the 2005 team rated HIGHER than the 2013 team. When you bring stuff like this up, it makes you look not so smart.
...it actually doesn't look good on paper. Barclay was tough, but Lopez didn't play a particularly tough style. Both were slower than they were tough. Also, they wouldn't have come close to getting Black or Shaq in foul trouble, which pretty much eliminates a major advantage that every other opponent had against us this year.
(03-30-2013 06:44 PM)rolexjames Wrote: Both coaches recruiting according to personality. Cal is a tough mean cuss and Josh is not. Josh's a competitor but he's not emotional. Cal wears his emotions on his sleeve. It's reflected in the players. Joey, CDR, Sean Banks, Billy Richmond, Shawn Taggart all emotional. Earl Barron was not and he and Cal didn't get along. Cal had kids that would fight in a heart beat. Josh doesn't or haven't recruited those players except for Geron.
Also, the practice styles are different. Cal practices were designed to crack you so you would develop some mental toughness, Josh practice is about skill development.
It's not a criticism just an observation.
Really? Josh isn't emotional?
I would submit that Josh's forth year team was just as tough as Cal's forth year team and would beat them 9 times out of ten.
Burks, Banks, Hunt and Barclay.
Child please.
Beat that team?
That team had 2 NBA players (Burks and Carney) as well as (freshman Banks) who was an NBA talent that year. Plus Jeremy Hunt.
It would have been a close game and this year's team would probably come out on top. Burks would probably have his way with JJ, but the 2013 frontline would have had problems with foul trouble against the 2004 frontline of Erwin, Barclay and Lopez. The 2004 team didn't shoot very well, and had very similar rebounding and turnover numbers.
Depth would play a major part. Once you get past the starting 5; next in line for minutes played were Erwin, Lopez and Barclay. None of the bigs were in the top 5 of minutes played. Every single guard on the team (Burks, Hunt, Rice) played starter minutes.
Fair assessment, but as for depth...the 2013 (in all reality) had little depth.
vs. MSU, Memphis only played seven players and even vs. USM in the CUSA final (2OT) Memphis only played seven players...four of which played 40+ minutes.
Non Starter Minutes Played
2005
15.1 Dorsey 4.6 ppg/6.0 rebounds
15.0 Barclay 2.1 ppg/3.9 rebounds
11.6 Waki 3.2 ppg/2.3 rebounds
Classic example of Sagarin and Kenpom throwing out stupid, meaningless numbers, and rewarding teams for losing games. The 2005 team was 19-15 with home losses to Ole Piss, Louisiana Tech, Providence, and TCU and road losses to UAB, Houston, and St. Louis.
...yet somehow Kenpom had the 2005 team rated HIGHER than the 2013 team. When you bring stuff like this up, it makes you look not so smart.
The 05 team also had wins agains nationally ranked Louisville and Charlotte. Had win vs. at large St. Mary's too.
More importantly, though, the comparison was between the 04 and 13 teams. Sean Banks would have been the best player on THIS year's team, and if not Banks, Burks would have been the best player on this year's team too.
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2013 02:47 PM by salukiblue.)
(03-30-2013 06:44 PM)rolexjames Wrote: Both coaches recruiting according to personality. Cal is a tough mean cuss and Josh is not. Josh's a competitor but he's not emotional. Cal wears his emotions on his sleeve. It's reflected in the players. Joey, CDR, Sean Banks, Billy Richmond, Shawn Taggart all emotional. Earl Barron was not and he and Cal didn't get along. Cal had kids that would fight in a heart beat. Josh doesn't or haven't recruited those players except for Geron.
Also, the practice styles are different. Cal practices were designed to crack you so you would develop some mental toughness, Josh practice is about skill development.
It's not a criticism just an observation.
Really? Josh isn't emotional?
I would submit that Josh's forth year team was just as tough as Cal's forth year team and would beat them 9 times out of ten.
Burks, Banks, Hunt and Barclay.
Child please.
Beat that team?
That team had 2 NBA players (Burks and Carney) as well as (freshman Banks) who was an NBA talent that year. Plus Jeremy Hunt.
It would have been a close game and this year's team would probably come out on top. Burks would probably have his way with JJ, but the 2013 frontline would have had problems with foul trouble against the 2004 frontline of Erwin, Barclay and Lopez. The 2004 team didn't shoot very well, and had very similar rebounding and turnover numbers.
Depth would play a major part. Once you get past the starting 5; next in line for minutes played were Erwin, Lopez and Barclay. None of the bigs were in the top 5 of minutes played. Every single guard on the team (Burks, Hunt, Rice) played starter minutes.
Fair assessment, but as for depth...the 2013 (in all reality) had little depth.
vs. MSU, Memphis only played seven players and even vs. USM in the CUSA final (2OT) Memphis only played seven players...four of which played 40+ minutes.
I don't mean to pile on because that's not the type of person I am, but...
Classic example of Sagarin and Kenpom throwing out stupid, meaningless numbers, and rewarding teams for losing games. The 2005 team was 19-15 with home losses to Ole Piss, Louisiana Tech, Providence, and TCU and road losses to UAB, Houston, and St. Louis.
...yet somehow Kenpom had the 2005 team rated HIGHER than the 2013 team. When you bring stuff like this up, it makes you look not so smart.
(04-01-2013 09:37 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote: Ok, results are pretty much in for the Kenpom/Sagarin/RPI bracket challenge:
In first place,
Sagarin with 68 of a possible 128 points. Correctly predicted only 4 of 8 Elite 8 teams, 1 of 4 Final Four teams and it's champion, Louisville, is still in play.
Kenpom is second with 67 of a possible 128 points. Correctly predicted 4 of 8 E8 teams, 1 of 4 F4 teams. It's champion, Florida, is out but it can still get more points with Louisville to the finals. Will still lose to Sagarin though.
RPI is last with 56 of a possible 128 points. Correctly picked only 3 of 8 E8 games, 0 of 4 F4 games. Has no F4 teams correct, so cannot garner anymore points and loses miserably.
Classic example of Sagarin and Kenpom throwing out stupid, meaningless numbers, and rewarding teams for losing games. The 2005 team was 19-15 with home losses to Ole Piss, Louisiana Tech, Providence, and TCU and road losses to UAB, Houston, and St. Louis.
...yet somehow Kenpom had the 2005 team rated HIGHER than the 2013 team. When you bring stuff like this up, it makes you look not so smart.
The 05 team also had wins agains nationally ranked Louisville and Charlotte. Had win vs. at large St. Mary's too.
More importantly, though, the comparison was between the 04 and 13 teams. Sean Banks would have been the best player on THIS year's team, and if not Banks, Burks would have been the best player on this year's team too.
Sorry to correct you, but Charlotte was not ranked when we beat them. Also, if you are saying that wins against Louisville and St. Mary's trump home losses to Ole Piss, Providence, Louisiana Tech and TCU, then there is honestly no hope for you.
You can dribble all the nonsense you want; the 2005 team was 19-15 going into the tournament. Kenpom, the Easter Bunny, Sagarin, the Tooth Fairy or anyone else that had them rated higher than this year's team is crazy.
Classic example of Sagarin and Kenpom throwing out stupid, meaningless numbers, and rewarding teams for losing games. The 2005 team was 19-15 with home losses to Ole Piss, Louisiana Tech, Providence, and TCU and road losses to UAB, Houston, and St. Louis.
...yet somehow Kenpom had the 2005 team rated HIGHER than the 2013 team. When you bring stuff like this up, it makes you look not so smart.
(04-01-2013 09:37 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote: Ok, results are pretty much in for the Kenpom/Sagarin/RPI bracket challenge:
In first place,
Sagarin with 68 of a possible 128 points. Correctly predicted only 4 of 8 Elite 8 teams, 1 of 4 Final Four teams and it's champion, Louisville, is still in play.
Kenpom is second with 67 of a possible 128 points. Correctly predicted 4 of 8 E8 teams, 1 of 4 F4 teams. It's champion, Florida, is out but it can still get more points with Louisville to the finals. Will still lose to Sagarin though.
RPI is last with 56 of a possible 128 points. Correctly picked only 3 of 8 E8 games, 0 of 4 F4 games. Has no F4 teams correct, so cannot garner anymore points and loses miserably.
2005 Memphis Tigers
19-15 with home losses to Ole Piss, Louisiana Tech, Providence, TCU, but rated higher than the 2013 team. Pretty much game, set and match as far as RPI/Sagarin/Kenpom go.
Classic example of Sagarin and Kenpom throwing out stupid, meaningless numbers, and rewarding teams for losing games. The 2005 team was 19-15 with home losses to Ole Piss, Louisiana Tech, Providence, and TCU and road losses to UAB, Houston, and St. Louis.
...yet somehow Kenpom had the 2005 team rated HIGHER than the 2013 team. When you bring stuff like this up, it makes you look not so smart.
(04-01-2013 09:37 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote: Ok, results are pretty much in for the Kenpom/Sagarin/RPI bracket challenge:
In first place,
Sagarin with 68 of a possible 128 points. Correctly predicted only 4 of 8 Elite 8 teams, 1 of 4 Final Four teams and it's champion, Louisville, is still in play.
Kenpom is second with 67 of a possible 128 points. Correctly predicted 4 of 8 E8 teams, 1 of 4 F4 teams. It's champion, Florida, is out but it can still get more points with Louisville to the finals. Will still lose to Sagarin though.
RPI is last with 56 of a possible 128 points. Correctly picked only 3 of 8 E8 games, 0 of 4 F4 games. Has no F4 teams correct, so cannot garner anymore points and loses miserably.
2005 Memphis Tigers
19-15 with home losses to Ole Piss, Louisiana Tech, Providence, TCU, but rated higher than the 2013 team. Pretty much game, set and match as far as RPI/Sagarin/Kenpom go.
(04-02-2013 03:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote: Ummm...the discussion about teams (again) is the 03-04 vs. the 12-13 team.
Transitt said the '13 team was tougher than the '04 team and that the '13 team would win 9 out of 10 games vs. the '04 team.
Care to re-focus on that?
I said the 13 team was better...not tougher.
I think Burks may have been a BIT better than Joe, but not much.
Geron is better than either Hunt or Rice. (both of whom were good)
Crawford is more versatile than either Hunt or Rice were. Carney showed spurts that season but also did things like dribble the ball off his foot a lot. He hadn't grown into the All American we remember.
the 13 team's backcourt, imho, would be too deep for the 04 team. That's my opinion.
I also think the statement that Banks and Burks were both better than anyone on the 13 team is flawed. Yes, both put up better numbers individually. However, was the 04 team top five in the country in assists? The 13 team was more balanced
This is all conjecture. However, the discussion is ridiculous to begin with. How is it that a team goes 31-5 and people still act like the coach and all the players suck and the season was somehow a failure (and no , Saluki, I'm not being overly dramatic. If you read this board and don't see people posting in that fashion then I suggest Hooked on Phonics because it's pretty in your face).
I don't care what league we're in. 31-5 and 16-0 in conference is hard to do and requires a combination of good coaching and good playing. I cannot even believe that's up for debate on this board.
(04-02-2013 03:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote: Ummm...the discussion about teams (again) is the 03-04 vs. the 12-13 team.
Transitt said the '13 team was tougher than the '04 team and that the '13 team would win 9 out of 10 games vs. the '04 team.
Care to re-focus on that?
You put the 2005 numbers in there which opened you up to ridicule. Now you're embarassed so you want to refocus. Poor baby, typical Socrates.
Banks played half of the team's minutes at the 4, so the toughness angle needs to be thrown out the door. Burks was super tough and DWash was also tough his freshman season, but nobody else stood out in particular.
When the 2004 team faced an Oklahoma State team that was similar to Michigan State; the game was literally over in 10 minutes. It was 23-10 after 10 minutes 31-12 after 14 minutes; and 41-19 at halftime.
The 2013 team didn't hang around against Michigan State because they missed shots. The 2004 team...full of supposed tough guys...couldn't stay in the game for 10 minutes because they were peeing their pants.
(04-02-2013 02:45 PM)salukiblue Wrote: The 05 team also had wins agains nationally ranked Louisville and Charlotte. Had win vs. at large St. Mary's too.
More importantly, though, the comparison was between the 04 and 13 teams. Sean Banks would have been the best player on THIS year's team, and if not Banks, Burks would have been the best player on this year's team too.
Sorry to correct you, but Charlotte was not ranked when we beat them.
/
Tougher players - under Cal or under Pastner?
