I think a message we can all agree on. IMO the longer LU version is a little better.


At the National Prayer Breakfast (Inaugeration) with Obama Present





Long Version, last year @ Liberty Univ.

I should have noted, Benjamin Solomon "Ben" Carson, Sr. (born September 18, 1951) is an African American neurosurgeon and the Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital. He was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian award in the United States, by President George W. Bush in 2008.

He grew up dirt poor in Detroit.

Dr. Carson's message is powerful, important, and true. I hope that as many people as possible will hear it and reflect on it.

However, it is also directly at-odds with the prevailing spirit of the academic/media/political class. That class, as a group, will do everything it can do, to marginalize and ignore Dr. Carson's message.

He's right on the HSA's. That's the biggest tragedy imo on the health care debate. The GOP should have worked with Obama in 2009 when they were formulating a plan. HSA's should have been a part of it. Pre Fund them for the poor. Have a national pool of insurance for the big stuff. Meet certain requirements for tax breaks. Can you imagine how Fox News would have handled that? Obama wants to control your waist line. Cholesterol, Body Fat %, should be monitored somehow andd rewarded. We needed GOP ideas in the health plan. They decided to sit on the sidelines.

(02-11-2013 12:53 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  He's right on the HSA's. That's the biggest tragedy imo on the health care debate... HSA's should have been a part of it.

For the sake of argument (and for no other reason), I will accept your claim that the GOP "decided" to not participate in the health-care debate in 2009-2010, and that Obama was ready and willing to engage "GOP ideas" in a spirit of good-faith and with an open mind. That still does not explain why, if HSA's are a good idea, the Democrats and the Obama administration omitted them from the final result.

I don't think they are omitted because I still have one. I like it. i have to come up with the first 2400 out of pocket. After that it's 100 percent covered. I fund my HSA at the fullest extent allowed by law.

(02-11-2013 02:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I don't think they are omitted because I still have one. I like it. i have to come up with the first 2400 out of pocket. After that it's 100 percent covered. I fund my HSA at the fullest extent allowed by law.

1. Many things that were omitted from ObamaCare have not -- yet -- been eliminated. Two different things, entirely.

2. Then what did you mean by saying "HSA's should have been a part of it."?

5 Ways To Protect Yourself Against Obamacare

Quote:2) Use a Health Savings Account (HSA).

HSAs are tax-free savings accounts where patients can deposit their own money to be spent later for medical needs. Most patients use HSAs for routine predictable expenses (e.g., flu shots, well-baby checks), coupled with a high-deductible insurance plan to cover unlikely-but-expensive serious accidents and illnesses.

Because patients with HSAs control their own medical spending, they and their doctors have greater control over treatment choices without requiring approval from government or private insurers. Patients with HSAs enjoy comparably good outcomes as patients with traditional insurance, while spending significantly less. As an added bonus, many doctors’ offices offer HSA patients a significant discount, because they don’t have to deal with insurance paperwork.

(02-11-2013 12:53 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The GOP should have worked with Obama in 2009 when they were formulating a plan. They decided to sit on the sidelines.

As I recall, they weren't really given a seat at the table and NONE of their ideas were given serious consideration........ essentially the Democrats, who at the time controlled both houses of congress, went behind closed doors and this monstrosity was the result.

Just another example of a totally Democrat piece of legislation that you are trying to somehow twist to "it's the Republicans fault".

SOP.

(02-11-2013 05:09 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 12:53 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The GOP should have worked with Obama in 2009 when they were formulating a plan. They decided to sit on the sidelines.

As I recall, they weren't really given a seat at the table and NONE of their ideas were given serious consideration........ essentially the Democrats, who at the time controlled both houses of congress, went behind closed doors and this monstrosity was the result.

Just another example of a totally Democrat piece of legislation that you are trying to somehow twist to "it's the Republicans fault".

SOP.

You mean that 'totally Democrat piece of legislation' that was based mainly on a GOP idea?

This horses ar$$ of a law could almost only come from a donkey.

(02-11-2013 04:36 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  5 Ways To Protect Yourself Against Obamacare

Quote:2) Use a Health Savings Account (HSA).

HSAs are tax-free savings accounts where patients can deposit their own money to be spent later for medical needs. Most patients use HSAs for routine predictable expenses (e.g., flu shots, well-baby checks), coupled with a high-deductible insurance plan to cover unlikely-but-expensive serious accidents and illnesses.

Because patients with HSAs control their own medical spending, they and their doctors have greater control over treatment choices without requiring approval from government or private insurers. Patients with HSAs enjoy comparably good outcomes as patients with traditional insurance, while spending significantly less. As an added bonus, many doctors’ offices offer HSA patients a significant discount, because they don’t have to deal with insurance paperwork.

You realize that this basically means, the way around Obamacare is to pay for your doctor out of your own pocket, outside of the insurance you are forced to buy. The idea that it is pre-tax is only marginally different than the current ability to deduct medical expenses from your income... and wow... the whole line "Patients with HSAs enjoy comparably good outcomes as patients with traditional insurance, while spending significantly less" is misleading as it doesn't say "spending less than what". You MAY get a discount from your doctor for paying cash and not making them file with insurance, but you may not. When you consider that Insurance has already negotiated a deep discount, you're really expecting a lot. The only way you spend less on healthcare is if you USE less healthcare... but you can't choose to go uncovered... other than cash... so you're still spending more than you did originally.

comments about saving money with regard to Obamacare are really just ways of saying "it could have been worse".

(02-11-2013 05:18 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  You mean that 'totally Democrat piece of legislation' that was based mainly on a GOP idea?

Cancer and a healed wound are both based on the same genetic idea. One minor change and you go from healing to killing

(02-11-2013 05:18 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 05:09 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 12:53 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The GOP should have worked with Obama in 2009 when they were formulating a plan. They decided to sit on the sidelines.

As I recall, they weren't really given a seat at the table and NONE of their ideas were given serious consideration........ essentially the Democrats, who at the time controlled both houses of congress, went behind closed doors and this monstrosity was the result.

Just another example of a totally Democrat piece of legislation that you are trying to somehow twist to "it's the Republicans fault".

SOP.

You mean that 'totally Democrat piece of legislation' that was based mainly on a GOP idea?

An idea studied, debated and discarded as a bad idea. Of course once discarded as a bad idea and deposited on the trash heap, those who dig through dumps looking for their ideas found it and promptly claimed it as their own.

(02-11-2013 05:18 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  You mean that 'totally Democrat piece of legislation' that was based mainly on a GOP idea?

This is one of those talking point lies that needs to be called out every time it is repeated in error. It's totally wrong on several levels.

First, does being "based mainly on a GOP idea" somehow lend credibility? Answer, it doesn't.

Second, Obamacare uses the words "mandate" and "exchanges" that were contained in the GOP 1990s proposal, but the terms have different meanings and are part of an approach that is conceptually the polar opposite of the GOP proposal. So "based mainly on" is simply an egregious lie.

Third, the guts of Obamacare have nothing to do with the republican plan you reference. There was nothing like the IPAB in that republican plan, nor the Health Choices Commission, nor the Council on Comparative Outcomes. And that republican plan promoted health spending accounts (HSAs) as a way to contain costs, whereas Obamacare effectively abolishes them, and it included a reform of medical malpractice which Obamacare omits.

Tom, your statement is inaccurate in many other ways as well, but that's enough for now. You are either poorly informed or lying. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are poorly informed.

(02-11-2013 05:18 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 05:09 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 12:53 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The GOP should have worked with Obama in 2009 when they were formulating a plan. They decided to sit on the sidelines.

As I recall, they weren't really given a seat at the table and NONE of their ideas were given serious consideration........ essentially the Democrats, who at the time controlled both houses of congress, went behind closed doors and this monstrosity was the result.

Just another example of a totally Democrat piece of legislation that you are trying to somehow twist to "it's the Republicans fault".

SOP.

You mean that 'totally Democrat piece of legislation' that was based mainly on a GOP idea?

No matter how you try to spin it - Democrats OWN this. Now..... they'll lie and a ton of their ill-informed constituents will believe that somehow it's the Republicans fault.

(02-11-2013 09:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Tom, your statement is inaccurate in many other ways as well, but that's enough for now. You are either poorly informed or lying. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are poorly informed.

He always starts poorly informed. Then he goes to lying once you point it out.

Libs start from the mistaken premise that Obamacare was about making the health care system better. It wasn't. It was from the beginning about moving us toward a single payer system.

Mach's fantasy about how republicans refused to work with Obama is laughable. Dems didn't need to work with them and didn't want to. Republicans would have hindered their goal of getting us closer to single payer.

Obamacare is about controlling the electorate and controlling an industry that accounts for a few trillion of our GDP. It's about control. No more, no less.

Bingo, Niner. Good post.

I'd like to add though, his speech was about much more than Obamacare. It's gaining more and more National attention and I've seen references from a dozen or more politician's Facebook pages. The Wall Street Journal is urging Dr. Carson to run for President 2016.

Here's an interview on Hannity after the speech:

Red Commie leftwing Tom is a MAObama worshipper

Makes me think Texas has the right idea about succession.

Watched "Gifted Hands-The Ben Carson Story" on Netflix last night. Great movie!