(12-22-2012 04:41 PM)Yoda Wrote:  

(12-22-2012 03:51 PM)porterhouse7070 Wrote:  Temple is now 2-0 in the last two meeting with Syracuse.

Yoda. Who is the better program between Temple and Syracuse?

No idea. I don't follow minor college football.

Seriously, as much I hang on all things non-AQ in the west, I don't really follow unranked teams in the east. I go from very interested to "normal ignorant college sports fan" by the time you get that far east.

Sorry. Although I have to say that I have a feeling that I just dodged a trick question.

Yoda out...


.

Its the same for fans in the east. No one follows MWC football. The easy has population and market. The west has far less viewer ship. That's why the MWC is mid major no matter what. NBE is the best hope for western schools to escape and develop. You get to compete against better teams and get eastern exposure.

(12-23-2012 12:31 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 12:23 AM)TonyTiger Wrote:  For the record, Tulane is west of Mississippi River. They belong in the west division, not Memphis ... !!!

Tulane is just barely East of the Mississippi River, just like Memphis.

To be technical, Tulane is actually South of the Mississippi River, but either way the school doesn't belong in a West Division after the split takes place. Memphis and Tulane should both be in the East, with the West beginning at the Texas border. The future Big East is not the same as the current CUSA.

(12-27-2012 09:15 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 12:31 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 12:23 AM)TonyTiger Wrote:  For the record, Tulane is west of Mississippi River. They belong in the west division, not Memphis ... !!!

Tulane is just barely East of the Mississippi River, just like Memphis.

To be technical, Tulane is actually South of the Mississippi River, . . .

Technically speaking, that's incorrect.



The Gulf of Mexico is south of the Mississippi River.

(12-27-2012 10:39 PM)Fireman451 Wrote:  Technically speaking, that's incorrect.

I was misremembering that the Mississippi River flowed into Lake Pontchartrain, for some reason, and I am 100% sure that Tulane is South of that body of water. Either way, so Tulane is slightly North of the Mississippi River, but does not belong in a West Division of whatever the Big East will morph into.

My in laws lived in Marreo, on bottom of that map. Tulane is in the city of Nawlins which is East bank, though it is actually West, East, and North of the river as it makes its horse shoe bend.
Bridge city, Westwego, Marreo, Harvey, Gretna, and Algiers are all on the West bank though they are due south of the river.

(12-22-2012 11:48 AM)Yoda Wrote:  

(12-22-2012 11:40 AM)Bearcat_Bounce Wrote:  HAHAHA. Thanks for the laugh.

Why is that so funny?

You beat us 28-20, in Cincy, in 2009
We beat you 28-14, the following year in Fresno.

Both years, we finished 8-5. In 2009, you were 12-1 and played in the Sugar Bowl and in 2010 you went 4-8.

Those were average years for us; we're doing better now. Still, we damn near knocked off you Sugar Bowl team in your house. So I'm not seeing anything that suggests that laughing is an appropriate response.

Yoda out...

when you guys win 10 games four out of five years come talk to us....otherswise there's nothing to say. yes, you beat us...when we were 4-8...nice job.

but lets be real...we have been to two bcs bowls, we have won 10 games 4 out of 5 years, we have won the big east four out of five years...fresno has not done any of this. Not trolling...just being real.

but nice job beating us the lone year we sucked.

(12-28-2012 12:39 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(12-22-2012 11:48 AM)Yoda Wrote:  

(12-22-2012 11:40 AM)Bearcat_Bounce Wrote:  HAHAHA. Thanks for the laugh.

Why is that so funny?

You beat us 28-20, in Cincy, in 2009
We beat you 28-14, the following year in Fresno.

Both years, we finished 8-5. In 2009, you were 12-1 and played in the Sugar Bowl and in 2010 you went 4-8.

Those were average years for us; we're doing better now. Still, we damn near knocked off you Sugar Bowl team in your house. So I'm not seeing anything that suggests that laughing is an appropriate response.

Yoda out...

when you guys win 10 games four out of five years come talk to us....otherswise there's nothing to say. yes, you beat us...when we were 4-8...nice job.

but lets be real...we have been to two bcs bowls, we have won 10 games 4 out of 5 years, we have won the big east four out of five years...fresno has not done any of this. Not trolling...just being real.

but nice job beating us the lone year we sucked.

One could say that every blind squirrel finds a nut.

(12-22-2012 11:24 AM)BSUTOP25 Wrote:  

(12-22-2012 11:19 AM)vick-mike Wrote:  MWC 2013 Big East 2014
Boise UConn
Fresno U Cinc
San Diego USF
Air Force Temple
Nevada Houston
Wyoming SMU
Colorado State UCF
UNLV Memphis
New Mexico ECU
Hawaii Tulane
San Jose
Utah St.

With all due apologies to Boise, I still take the BE-2014, in football and basketball.

Better football teams are in bold. Cincy and Fresno are a tossup as are Nevada and Houston and UNLV and Memphis. MWC > BECUSA in football .. especially if Houston comes West.

SMU>Wyoming, UC>Fresno, Hawai'i>Tulane (but Tulane has a higher ceiling), Houston has more upside than Nevada (but I don't know who is better right now), and USF is better than their record indicated. With the right coach, they can be pretty good. The real question is whether the nBE + (BSU, SDSU, and AIr Force) is better than the MWC + (BSU, SDSU, and AF)), and I think that it is.

The NBE is clearly on higher ground than the MWC. I feel the BE will be fine, so long Boise desires a tougher conference over a more regional one.

SJSU, Air Force, and Utah State cannot ALL sustain their recent success!

(12-25-2012 04:29 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(12-22-2012 04:41 PM)Yoda Wrote:  

(12-22-2012 03:51 PM)porterhouse7070 Wrote:  Temple is now 2-0 in the last two meeting with Syracuse.

Yoda. Who is the better program between Temple and Syracuse?

No idea. I don't follow minor college football.

Seriously, as much I hang on all things non-AQ in the west, I don't really follow unranked teams in the east. I go from very interested to "normal ignorant college sports fan" by the time you get that far east.

Sorry. Although I have to say that I have a feeling that I just dodged a trick question.

Yoda out...


.

Its the same for fans in the east. No one follows MWC football. The easy has population and market. The west has far less viewer ship. That's why the MWC is mid major no matter what. NBE is the best hope for western schools to escape and develop. You get to compete against better teams and get eastern exposure.

Since when is Temple 2-0 against Syracuse? And since when is Syracuse minor?

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=323280218

(12-28-2012 03:51 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(12-25-2012 04:29 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(12-22-2012 04:41 PM)Yoda Wrote:  

(12-22-2012 03:51 PM)porterhouse7070 Wrote:  Temple is now 2-0 in the last two meeting with Syracuse.

Yoda. Who is the better program between Temple and Syracuse?

No idea. I don't follow minor college football.

Seriously, as much I hang on all things non-AQ in the west, I don't really follow unranked teams in the east. I go from very interested to "normal ignorant college sports fan" by the time you get that far east.

Sorry. Although I have to say that I have a feeling that I just dodged a trick question.

Yoda out...


.

Its the same for fans in the east. No one follows MWC football. The easy has population and market. The west has far less viewer ship. That's why the MWC is mid major no matter what. NBE is the best hope for western schools to escape and develop. You get to compete against better teams and get eastern exposure.

Since when is Temple 2-0 against Syracuse? And since when is Syracuse minor?

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=323280218

Basketball. Basketball...

(12-28-2012 03:36 PM)uconnbaseball Wrote:  The NBE is clearly on higher ground than the MWC. I feel the BE will be fine, so long Boise desires a tougher conference over a more regional one.

SJSU, Air Force, and Utah State cannot ALL sustain their recent success!

Lets take out the swing schools and assume Boise, SDSU, UNLV, Fresno, SMU and Houston all will go one way or another. Assume UConn is gone but Cinci stays. You can see that average RPI's for the two conferences are virtually identical in both Revenue sports. It is hard to objectively make the case on conference is significantly better than the other. Yes teams go up and down but that can be said for both sides.

The Big East has higher population base while the MWC has lower travel costs for non revenue teams. Without an all sports western division the answer seems obvious for the western teams. Even with the all sports invite the western teams have to consider the rivalries they would be losing.

Team football RPI, basketball RPI
SJSU. 17, 205
Utah State 20, 88
Nevada 77, 203
Hawaii 127
Wyoming 100, 26
Colorado State 99, 23
Air Force 84, 189
New Mexico 116, 11

Average. 80.0 football
106.4 basketball

Versus
Cincinatti 26, 24
Temple 85, 33
ECU 64, 120
Memphis 106, 112
USF 97, 115
UCF 46, 140
Tulane 131, 194

Average
79.3 football
104 basketball

(12-28-2012 08:11 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(12-28-2012 03:36 PM)uconnbaseball Wrote:  The NBE is clearly on higher ground than the MWC. I feel the BE will be fine, so long Boise desires a tougher conference over a more regional one.

SJSU, Air Force, and Utah State cannot ALL sustain their recent success!

Lets take out the swing schools and assume Boise, SDSU, UNLV, Fresno, SMU and Houston all will go one way or another. Assume UConn is gone but Cinci stays. You can see that average RPI's for the two conferences are virtually identical in both Revenue sports. It is hard to objectively make the case on conference is significantly better than the other. Yes teams go up and down but that can be said for both sides.

The Big East has higher population base while the MWC has lower travel costs for non revenue teams. Without an all sports western division the answer seems obvious for the western teams. Even with the all sports invite the western teams have to consider the rivalries they would be losing.

Team football RPI, basketball RPI
SJSU. 17, 205
Utah State 20, 88
Nevada 77, 203
Hawaii 127
Wyoming 100, 26
Colorado State 99, 23
Air Force 84, 189
New Mexico 116, 11

Average. 80.0 football
106.4 basketball

Versus
Cincinatti 26, 24
Temple 85, 33
ECU 64, 120
Memphis 106, 112
USF 97, 115
UCF 46, 140
Tulane 131, 194

Average
79.3 football
104 basketball

Nice analysis . . . But hasn't the Big East essentially matched the ACC for years, and yet constantly was belittled in the national media . . . The more compelling question is which conference will the national media designate as the best-of-the-rest 6th conference regardless of average RPI, Sagrin, etc. . .ultimately, this will decide everything from membership, TV revenue, out of conference scheduling, season rankings, recruiting, etc

(12-28-2012 10:44 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  The more compelling question is which conference will the national media designate as the best-of-the-rest 6th conference regardless of average RPI, Sagrin, etc. . .ultimately, this will decide everything from membership, TV revenue, out of conference scheduling, season rankings, recruiting, etc

If the Big East keeps Boise, then the Big East.

If Boise is in the Mountain West, then no one.

Was there ever a bunch of speculation and debate about what the best non-AQ conference was? I don't think so. Was there chatter about whether the 16-team WAC or C-USA was stronger? I don't think so. Comparing the MWC to C-USA? No. After the ACC raided the Big East raided C-USA, there was debate over whether the MWC was better than the Big East. But no one is going to argue that the best-of-the-rest conference is better than the ACC. (No one on TV, that is.) So no one will care.

True, but the perception will effect rankings which effects bowls, recruiting, TV coverage, etc. . . The ESPiN guys may not debate it, but it will matter. . .

C-USA fans were delusional (us ECU fans included) to think the Big East was going to collapse, and MWC fans are equally as delusional.

If Boise leaves (Which most of their fanbase says is a stupid decision) then the Big East will probably raid the MWC further and leave Boise with no quality in conference opponents and wreck the MWC's SOS forever, thus ensuring Big East dominance of the bowl spot. Boise gets isolated in a conference with a much smaller TV contract than the Big East, and gets NOTHING to show for it. SDSU would probably opt to stay in a Big East with Fresno and UNLV.

(12-28-2012 08:11 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(12-28-2012 03:36 PM)uconnbaseball Wrote:  The NBE is clearly on higher ground than the MWC. I feel the BE will be fine, so long Boise desires a tougher conference over a more regional one.

SJSU, Air Force, and Utah State cannot ALL sustain their recent success!

Lets take out the swing schools and assume Boise, SDSU, UNLV, Fresno, SMU and Houston all will go one way or another. Assume UConn is gone but Cinci stays. You can see that average RPI's for the two conferences are virtually identical in both Revenue sports. It is hard to objectively make the case on conference is significantly better than the other. Yes teams go up and down but that can be said for both sides.

The Big East has higher population base while the MWC has lower travel costs for non revenue teams. Without an all sports western division the answer seems obvious for the western teams. Even with the all sports invite the western teams have to consider the rivalries they would be losing.

Team football RPI, basketball RPI
SJSU. 17, 205
Utah State 20, 88
Nevada 77, 203
Hawaii 127
Wyoming 100, 26
Colorado State 99, 23
Air Force 84, 189
New Mexico 116, 11

Average. 80.0 football
106.4 basketball

Versus
Cincinatti 26, 24
Temple 85, 33
ECU 64, 120
Memphis 106, 112
USF 97, 115
UCF 46, 140
Tulane 131, 194

Average
79.3 football
104 basketball

Where is UCONN going?

Also, early season RPI's are notoriously unreliable. I would do ending RPI and ending football rank for the last 5 years to get a better picture. Conferences have up and down years and an RPI based on under half a season is less than reliable.

(12-29-2012 02:17 AM)Steelbeard Wrote:  C-USA fans were delusional (us ECU fans included) to think the Big East was going to collapse, and MWC fans are equally as delusional.

If Boise leaves (Which most of their fanbase says is a stupid decision) then the Big East will probably raid the MWC further and leave Boise with no quality in conference opponents and wreck the MWC's SOS forever, thus ensuring Big East dominance of the bowl spot. Boise gets isolated in a conference with a much smaller TV contract than the Big East, and gets NOTHING to show for it. SDSU would probably opt to stay in a Big East with Fresno and UNLV.

If Boise leaves, I don't think the Big East CAN raid the MWC. The Big East will be sitting at about $3-$4M per school. The MWC's renegotiation with CBS, plus adding Boise State either BYU or SDSU probably gets them up to $2M per school.

Let's say that the MWC makes a sweetheart deal with either Boise and BYU or Boise and SDSU that they can join/stay and keep their home football rights. The MWC adds 4 Boise STate road games, or 7-8 BSU/BYU road games plus a CCG to the TV package. Assume that CBS takes the CCG as one of their 5 Tier One games. Figure that CBS takes 3 more Boise State games and Air Force's home game with either NAvy or Army as their other picks.

So you're looking at AFA, Hawaii, Nevada, Fresno, UNLV, CSU, Wyoming, USU and SJSU. That's pretty similar to the C-USA lineup that Fox and CBS each paid $7M a year for a share of two years ago. So figure that the Tier 2 football package gets about $5M for 10 games, with CBS matching for their 10 games. (I can't imagine that the renegotiated contract is giving CBS their Tier 2 games for free--I suspect that CBS' unstated position right now is that those games are, ahem, worthless.) So the football money is up to $8M + $5M + $5M = $18M.

Then there's basketball. Much like the NBE and C-7 packages, the basketball is worth something. Basketball doesn't get ratings like football does, but the advantage of basketball to TV is there's a lot of it.

With SDSU, UNLV, UNM and Utah State in the fold, plus Boise State if they sustain their success, you should be able to squeeze $6M out of the basketball package.

BYU won't rejoin the MWC or even make a deal with them. They're sitting pretty on what? 7 million a year? That means they don't need the MWC, the MWC needs them.

And the current $25 million number for the MWC relies on someone other than CBS buying games like UNLV @ Wyoming to actually reach that number, which isn't going to happen.

People saying the MWC is going to get more or equal to the Big East contract are grossly uninformed, or just spiteful about the Big East (C-USA, MWC folks)

(12-29-2012 07:20 AM)Steelbeard Wrote:  BYU won't rejoin the MWC or even make a deal with them. They're sitting pretty on what? 7 million a year? That means they don't need the MWC, the MWC needs them.

And the current $25 million number for the MWC relies on someone other than CBS buying games like UNLV @ Wyoming to actually reach that number, which isn't going to happen.

People saying the MWC is going to get more or equal to the Big East contract are grossly uninformed, or just spiteful about the Big East (C-USA, MWC folks)

Not equal, but close enough that going coast-to-coast won't look super-attractive, especially to a conference that's lost 10 members in the last 12 months.