(12-07-2012 12:02 PM)WheresWaldo42 Wrote:  Major, I think you comment that "Ours should be a better job by virtually every measure" is the problem that we have here in Kalamazoo. We have a higher opinion of ourselves than anybody else does.

As for the comments about being dysfunctional, the issue at hand is the fact that they fired their existing HC without having any kind of game plan as to what the next step would be. Whether they are dysfunctional or not, the perception that they didnt know whether to have a search committee or not, hadnt spoken with any candidates after a week, and continue to look like they dont have any viable candidates makes them look dysfunctional.

As for keeping things tight lipped, I have no problem with that. In fact, there are parts of that that I like. But at least letting people know that they are making progress and talking to legitimate candidates might help ease some of the fans concerns.

Back to the original question. With the perception of from outside of where things are between the 2 schools, I would take the Kent St situation in a heartbeat over WMU. Just my opinion.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but our athletic department receives more donor $$$ than any other team in the MAC. This alone should make WMU one of the top 4 jobs in the conference.

How do you know the admin didn't have a plan in place? You THINK there wasn't a plan because they haven't divulged it via mlive or Rivals. They want everyone in the dark so they can do their job effectively.

The search committee is complete BS. The admin HAS to respond with "we aren't sure if we will be using a search committee". Why, because it's plan B, only to be utilized if the initial interest in the job opening isn't near their expectations.

Hadn't spoken with any candidates after a week? Or conducted formal interviews? Or, are they simply not telling us? Why would they not tell us? BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT THE SEARCH TO BE PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE.

Who says they don't have any viable candidates? You are guessing that because there isn't any information.


If you are completely fine with it being tight lipped, then your entire beef really isn't a beef and your criticism is based solely on a few articles/updates from the local media that contain nothing of substance.


IMO, they are doing everything right. The sky isn't falling and the last thing they should do is start dropping names and/or divulging info at this point.

(12-07-2012 12:02 PM)WheresWaldo42 Wrote:  Major, I think you comment that "Ours should be a better job by virtually every measure" is the problem that we have here in Kalamazoo. We have a higher opinion of ourselves than anybody else does.

As for the comments about being dysfunctional, the issue at hand is the fact that they fired their existing HC without having any kind of game plan as to what the next step would be. Whether they are dysfunctional or not, the perception that they didnt know whether to have a search committee or not, hadnt spoken with any candidates after a week, and continue to look like they dont have any viable candidates makes them look dysfunctional.

As for keeping things tight lipped, I have no problem with that. In fact, there are parts of that that I like. But at least letting people know that they are making progress and talking to legitimate candidates might help ease some of the fans concerns.

Back to the original question. With the perception of from outside of where things are between the 2 schools, I would take the Kent St situation in a heartbeat over WMU. Just my opinion.

As an outsider (but someone plenty familiar with the MAC) WMU is easily the better of the two jobs. The facilities are some of the best in the MAC. There is a relative tradition of success here. While the Bill Cubit era was frustrating in that the Broncos never got over the top, they were also always respectable. There are wins over AQ schools, bowl appearances, and Cubit proved that you could convince southern kids to come to Kalamazoo.

Now, working against that are some fairly sizable obstacles. First, WMU is falling behind in the arms race for dollars. Personally, I don't see how WMU can hope to keep up with NIU, Toledo, and perhaps Ball St & CMU when so much of their athletic resources go to a division 1 hockey program. Don't get me wrong, I love hockey and think it's great that WMU plays hockey at the highest level. I also know that NIU seems perpetually broke and I can't even begin to guess where the money would come from to maintain hockey as a varsity sport without it sucking football dry. WMU has to be in the same boat to an extent. Second, I don't know for sure, but it seems like WMU's administration is at best middling. KSU is proving they can run a very successful athletic dept. Those are structural problems that WMU will have to address.

However, unless you're just looking at next year (which would mean you've got a carpetbagger coach and I think I like WMUs overall talent next year, too), WMU has it all over KSU as a football job.

EA3, while I appreciate your opinions, we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Like I have said all along, I have no problem with them deciding to go in a different direction. But the PERCEPTION is that they weren't adequately prepared for the moving forward process. I'm not only speaking for myself, but several others that I have discussed this with.

My belief is that regardless of how correct or incorrect I am on that, KB and Dunn overestimate the level of WMU and their program. And we as fans are going to be underwhelmed with whoever theyend up hiring.

(12-07-2012 01:19 PM)WheresWaldo42 Wrote:  EA3, while I appreciate your opinions, we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Like I have said all along, I have no problem with them deciding to go in a different direction. But the PERCEPTION is that they weren't adequately prepared for the moving forward process. I'm not only speaking for myself, but several others that I have discussed this with.

My belief is that regardless of how correct or incorrect I am on that, KB and Dunn overestimate the level of WMU and their program. And we as fans are going to be underwhelmed with whoever theyend up hiring.

Fair enough. We don't agree.

(12-07-2012 01:19 PM)WheresWaldo42 Wrote:  EA3, while I appreciate your opinions, we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Like I have said all along, I have no problem with them deciding to go in a different direction. But the PERCEPTION is that they weren't adequately prepared for the moving forward process. I'm not only speaking for myself, but several others that I have discussed this with.

My belief is that regardless of how correct or incorrect I am on that, KB and Dunn overestimate the level of WMU and their program. And we as fans are going to be underwhelmed with whoever theyend up hiring.

I really don't think they anticipated the landscape that has become this coaching carousel in college football. Seems like everyday some teams coach leaves for a new vacancy.

I think you will only be "underwhelmed" if your pinning your hopes on a target we likely would never be in the running for anyway. I choose to pin my hopes on the program moving forward in a positive manner with whomever they choose as head coach.

Well said.

I think based on what we have read over the last few weeks, that some people will be underwhelmed. Its all about getting the right guy to move the program forward.

FWIW...

We have talked to several well-connected people -- including ones with D1 coaching experience -- that would agree with Hoople and support his points that WMU is a highly sought after place (comparatively to other MAC schools). The most common ones we hear are "facilities" and "recruiting area."

They're blowing smoke up your a$$.

(12-07-2012 02:48 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  They're blowing smoke up your a$$.

Not true. Even though I've been out of college coaching for over a decade I still have a lot of friends at that level, talk to college guys when they come through recruiting and at clinics.

WMU is considered a good job with a lot of potential.

So why doesn't WMU ever live up to its potential and get over the hump in terms of being a dominant program in the MAC?

(12-08-2012 09:41 AM)WA_Bronco Wrote:  So why doesn't WMU ever live up to its potential and get over the hump in terms of being a dominant program in the MAC?

Assuming that's not a rhetorical question, probably should be separate thread.

That potential thing is a cop out rationalization. Where are the results? Can't blame Cubit for all of that, he was working against the same institutional headwinds and was only our HC since 2004.

You talk about what a great job it is here, but with the climate surrounding the program, and the lack of results to illustrate that it's not a productive one, how can anyone think that? We've enjoyed that "less than stellar" reputation for years, decades, no matter who the AD is btw.

It's practically impossible for a program to dominate the MAC for more than a four year stretch in basketball or football under the current conditions. Lots of parity.

Not talking about dominating EA3.

(12-08-2012 12:12 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Not talking about dominating EA3.

I know....but another poster doesn't understand why we can't dominate.

I'd like to even see results now and then, and you guys are going to see really soon that there's more to the problem than "firing the HC" to fix.

Dominate program in the MAC???

Yeah, right now it's NIU. Before that it was CMU, but has CMU really been dominate. They have 7 winning seasons in 20 years.

There is no dominate program in the MAC. It's loaded with parity. Winning the MAC often comes down to scheduling and dumb luck. Once in awhile you can attribute it to great coaching, I'd probably put Kent in that catagory this year.

I do think the MAC has a few basketball programs that dominate in recruiting and producing wins. In football I think it's a crapshoot, and WMU has as good a chance as anyone at winning the MAC.

As for NIU guy worrying that hockey is taking money out of our bank account, that's b.s. Lawson ice arena has long been paid for, and the ice time is a money maker. Outside of a once a year trip to Alaska it's a bus league. It outdraws NIU's basketball program twice over $$$

Toledo came the closest with Jaba the coach for a few years, otherwise it's up and down.

(12-08-2012 12:36 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Jaba the coach

This made me literally laugh out loud even though I've never seen a Star Wars movie.

(12-08-2012 11:44 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  That potential thing is a cop out rationalization. Where are the results? Can't blame Cubit for all of that, he was working against the same institutional headwinds and was only our HC since 2004.

You talk about what a great job it is here, but with the climate surrounding the program, and the lack of results to illustrate that it's not a productive one, how can anyone think that? We've enjoyed that "less than stellar" reputation for years, decades, no matter who the AD is btw.

DB, seriously - settle down.

First, Bill was head coach since 2005, not 2004.

And it is unlikely any school is going to "dominate" a league like MAC in Football.

My earlier post just stated what the perception of our job is in the coaching community, whether you agree or not.

Nobody said this is a "great" job - just a good one with potential.

Yes, it's not just who's the head coach.

But reality is when you've been header for several years - Cubit, Darnell, Molde, etc etc. - regardless of how good a guy you are or what else you've done - if you haven't brought home trophies, "dominated" our in-state rivals, attendance is down, and the future doesn't look any better - change is coming.

That is the fact of coaching life when you sign on.