(02-21-2012 03:26 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  As I wrote earlier, I think the game can happen next year at the Shoe. The UC fanbase is BETTER BEHAVED by miles over the XU fanbase.

The issue is the next year. This is where I think UC can win public opinion by playing that game.

Host them at the Shoe next year. Behave appropriately and beat the snot out of them.
Agree to the return trip to Cintas. If their fans behave the series can continue. This is made known upfront.

If they don't — no vulgar or non PC chants (i.e. Catholics vs. Convicts), no disrespectful costumes, no berating players before during or after by XU fans and no over the top trash talking — we cancel then and there at the presser right afterward.

People outside of Cincinnati will be tuned in to the game next year and the following year to see what happens. They behave and the series continues...they don't and we show the world that the XU fanbases' behavior during the Brawl wasn't an isolated event and why we have every right to cancel. It's no risk and all reward.

If we cancel now we get labeled chicken FOR ETERNITY.

I disagree. All UC would have to do is point out what happened when XU played Purdue and Butler. They have built up quite the reputation in recent years for their trash talking, lack of discipline and disgustingly pathetic fans. The secret is out on XU and there is no better time to cancel the series than right now.

(02-21-2012 03:30 PM)BearcatOtto Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 02:53 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 02:45 PM)BearcatOtto Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 02:15 PM)Marcus Wrote:  Yet another terrible decision by UC's administration.

Why in the world they continue to try to play nice with XU is beyond me. It's the same thing over and over, the media continues to $hit on UC in this city, makes them out to be the bad guys and the thugs, yet when XU starts acting that way UC's adminitration refuses to stand up for their own school and takes part in covering things up that would reflect badly on XU.

I can't believe they are continuing this game after what happened. Not only that but I cant believe they went out of their way to cover up what Kenny Frease did to the wife of a UC employee in the stands. It just pisses me off so much that this administration operates the way they do. In turn it continues to make XU look like the good guys and UC the bad guys. Would XU's administration cover up what happened had as UC player struck a coaches wife? Hell no. It would have been front story in the paper's, national news, etc...

I just cant believe they are continuing this series with the behavior through the years we see from the Xavier players and especially fans. Nothing good comes from it other than XU getting their Super Bowl every year and having the media in this city drool over what a great program they have.

Pretty sure that Whit knows exactly what happened in the first row with the coaches wife. He was sitting right there!

I also feel confident that if Freese would have actually struck a coach's wife that further action would have been taken, including eliminating the game in the future.

In the video I saw, I did not see any contact with Freese and anybody in the front row.

The video on channel 19 didn't show any physical altercation, however Frease and a couple others were definately standing on chairs throwing F bombs towards our AD and some 60 year old women. That's enough for me.

Father Graham can placate Williams all he wants. Series needs to end. Hostile environment is one thing. To act like a bunch of D Bags is another. Completely classless institution. Maybe they can go coverup more sexual assualts/rapes over there.

Classless...yes. But far from striking another person.

My point for Marcus' statement that there never was any contact with anyone in the stands. That is the basis of most of his argument about whether UC should continue to schedule any upcoming games with X.

Actually that is not the basis of most of my argument. Whether he struck her or not his actions directed towards her are just one of many examples of XU's lack of discpline and an example of the media in this city being biased towards Xavier by not covering this story and turning a blind eye to it. It also shows UC would rather cater to Xavier instead of defending their own by trying to keep the incident quiet. That is all I was saying whether he struck her or not what happened was inexusable and it is something a UC player would have been vilified a hundred times over had they done what Frease did.

(02-21-2012 03:32 PM)Marcus Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 03:26 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  As I wrote earlier, I think the game can happen next year at the Shoe. The UC fanbase is BETTER BEHAVED by miles over the XU fanbase.

The issue is the next year. This is where I think UC can win public opinion by playing that game.

Host them at the Shoe next year. Behave appropriately and beat the snot out of them.
Agree to the return trip to Cintas. If their fans behave the series can continue. This is made known upfront.

If they don't — no vulgar or non PC chants (i.e. Catholics vs. Convicts), no disrespectful costumes, no berating players before during or after by XU fans and no over the top trash talking — we cancel then and there at the presser right afterward.

People outside of Cincinnati will be tuned in to the game next year and the following year to see what happens. They behave and the series continues...they don't and we show the world that the XU fanbases' behavior during the Brawl wasn't an isolated event and why we have every right to cancel. It's no risk and all reward.

If we cancel now we get labeled chicken FOR ETERNITY.

I disagree. All UC would have to do is point out what happened when XU played Purdue and Butler. They have built up quite the reputation in recent years for their trash talking, lack of discipline and disgustingly pathetic fans. The secret is out on XU and there is no better time to cancel the series than right now.

Add in Vanderbilt to those two.

(02-21-2012 03:36 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 03:32 PM)Marcus Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 03:26 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  As I wrote earlier, I think the game can happen next year at the Shoe. The UC fanbase is BETTER BEHAVED by miles over the XU fanbase.

The issue is the next year. This is where I think UC can win public opinion by playing that game.

Host them at the Shoe next year. Behave appropriately and beat the snot out of them.
Agree to the return trip to Cintas. If their fans behave the series can continue. This is made known upfront.

If they don't — no vulgar or non PC chants (i.e. Catholics vs. Convicts), no disrespectful costumes, no berating players before during or after by XU fans and no over the top trash talking — we cancel then and there at the presser right afterward.

People outside of Cincinnati will be tuned in to the game next year and the following year to see what happens. They behave and the series continues...they don't and we show the world that the XU fanbases' behavior during the Brawl wasn't an isolated event and why we have every right to cancel. It's no risk and all reward.

If we cancel now we get labeled chicken FOR ETERNITY.

I disagree. All UC would have to do is point out what happened when XU played Purdue and Butler. They have built up quite the reputation in recent years for their trash talking, lack of discipline and disgustingly pathetic fans. The secret is out on XU and there is no better time to cancel the series than right now.

Add in Vanderbilt to those two.

Absolutely! I listen to some of the sports radio guys in Nasvhille from time to time like Frank Wycheck, Mark Howard, etc... and Xavier's reputation as a bunch of undisciplined thugs is well known down there as well. I dont know if Vandy is continuing their series with them or not but the guys in the media sure arent a fan of the Xavier program. Like I said the secret is out about them and what they are about.

(02-21-2012 03:26 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  As I wrote earlier, I think the game can happen next year at the Shoe. The UC fanbase is BETTER BEHAVED by miles over the XU fanbase.

The issue is the next year. This is where I think UC can win public opinion by playing that game.

Host them at the Shoe next year. Behave appropriately and beat the snot out of them.
Agree to the return trip to Cintas. If their fans behave the series can continue. This is made known upfront.

If they don't — no vulgar or non PC chants (i.e. Catholics vs. Convicts), no disrespectful costumes, no berating players before during or after by XU fans and no over the top trash talking — we cancel then and there at the presser right afterward.

People outside of Cincinnati will be tuned in to the game next year and the following year to see what happens. They behave and the series continues...they don't and we show the world that the XU fanbases' behavior during the Brawl wasn't an isolated event and why we have every right to cancel. It's no risk and all reward.

If we cancel now we get labeled chicken FOR ETERNITY.

If we verbalize those criteria for fan behavior, we get labeled a term worse than "chicken" FOR ETERNITY - and deservedly so. UC doesn't win by crying about the fans being mean or their players trash-talking (imagine that - on a basketball court no less!!!!) or making silly threats to cancel the series due to those issues. All that does is make us look like cry-babies and sets us up as hypocrites if any incident goes the other way.

UC wins by......Winning! Same as it ever was. Both schools know they have to beef up security and use experienced competent officials - that will be a given going forward. The answer to all the problems from UC's perspective is to line up, play hard and Win. It's really not much more complicated than that.

(02-21-2012 03:44 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 03:26 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  As I wrote earlier, I think the game can happen next year at the Shoe. The UC fanbase is BETTER BEHAVED by miles over the XU fanbase.

The issue is the next year. This is where I think UC can win public opinion by playing that game.

Host them at the Shoe next year. Behave appropriately and beat the snot out of them.
Agree to the return trip to Cintas. If their fans behave the series can continue. This is made known upfront.

If they don't — no vulgar or non PC chants (i.e. Catholics vs. Convicts), no disrespectful costumes, no berating players before during or after by XU fans and no over the top trash talking — we cancel then and there at the presser right afterward.

People outside of Cincinnati will be tuned in to the game next year and the following year to see what happens. They behave and the series continues...they don't and we show the world that the XU fanbases' behavior during the Brawl wasn't an isolated event and why we have every right to cancel. It's no risk and all reward.

If we cancel now we get labeled chicken FOR ETERNITY.

If we verbalize those criteria for fan behavior, we get labeled a term worse than "chicken" FOR ETERNITY - and deservedly so. UC doesn't win by crying about the fans being mean or their players trash-talking (imagine that - on a basketball court no less!!!!) or making silly threats to cancel the series due to those issues. All that does is make us look like cry-babies and sets us up as hypocrites if any incident goes the other way.

Both schools know they have to beef up security and use experienced competent officials - that will be a given going forward.

Why are UC's fans being grouped with Xavier's? They are on completely different levels as far as the way they act. It's not even comparable. That sounds like the BS politically correct garbage type of answer UC's administration seems to give time and time again and I think UC fans in general are tired of hearing.

Playing a rogue program like Xavier is beneficial to UC in no way, shape or form. Especially when you have media in this city that already have pre-determined, regardless of what the truth may be, that UC is and always will be the bad guy and Xavier will always be the good guy.

UC might be labeled something by the media in this town for a few weeks but who cares? If UC just ends the series and drops the issue entirely and completely stops talking about it then the labeling will go away when the media gets tired of getting no rise out of it.

I agree 100% with Marcus... Xavier has built their program by playing UC. Many of the
XU fans only buy tickets because of the UC game.. UC gets nothing from this game, it is time to end it for good..

Just my 2 cents:

1. I don't think any of you really understand the amount of "cover-ups" that happen at XU. I mean, people assume they know what goes on, and jump on the bandwagon along with everyone else. But it REALLY does run deep. I have a friend who works at XU (I don't want to say in what capacity) but they are far from cafeteria personel or a security guard. They would know what goes on behind closed doors. They have told me that Frease has been a problem child since he stepped on campus. He has been in trouble time and time again. Fortunately most of the time he has been detained by campus security (not the CPD). And it all gets swept under the rug. I can tell you that most that are in charge at XU will not be sorry to see him go.

2. I don't want to see the series cancelled because I don't think I could hear the constant accusations of "it's because you can't beat us", "9 of the past 11", "#1 in the country...#2 in the city". I know as fans we get that now anyway, but if UC decides to cancel it will be RELENTLESS. And to be honest, it will look that way. Like UC can't win, so they took their ball and went home. Right or wrong.

3. I for one would LOVE to see the game played at a neutral site. As big as this game already is for the city, I think it would become THE sporting event in the city. (maybe not as popular as Opening Day, but close) Selling out an 18-20K seat US Bank arena with fans of BOTH sides would be awesome. However, I will admit that the opportunity of a few scuffles breaking out, dramatically increases. But who cares...that happens at Bengals games every week!

4. Lastly, If they do cancel, you are right, I would want to see them do it AFTER this year. Think about how much pub this game is going to get when it rolls around. It will NOT be on ESPN2 or ESPNU. It will be on the main channel. It will be THE top story on every sports news outlet leading up to the game. (Just like it was in the days after this year) Think about it, how sweet would it be for all that coverage to climax with a Bearcat Victory to rub their noses in?

(02-21-2012 03:51 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  Just my 2 cents:


2. I don't want to see the series cancelled because I don't think I could hear the constant accusations of "it's because you can't beat us", "9 of the past 11", "#1 in the country...#2 in the city". I know as fans we get that now anyway, but if UC decides to cancel it will be RELENTLESS. And to be honest, it will look that way. Like UC can't win, so they took their ball and went home. Right or wrong.

I may be in the minority here, but I could care less how it would "look". The bottom line is ending the series would be far more damaging to Xavier's program than UC's. Xavier has built their program solely around the UC game. UC has nothing to gain by beating Xavier and everything to lose by losing to them. And that goes right along with the media perception. As long as this game is played the media in this city will paint UC as the bad guys and Xavier as the choir boys irregardless of the actual truth. UC is better off without the game and XU is worse off without the game. That is why I would cancel it in a heartbeat.

I'm hoping this is just a stalling tactic by Williams and Babcock, until after the game is played next season. I want to kick their butt one last time, and then wave goodbye to them.

Think about it. After Purdue's Matt Painter made his comments, the officials have been all over the Xavier players during games. Also, I fully expect alot of programs to not be willing to schedule Xavier for an OOC game from here on out, again based on Matt Painter's comments.

Cronin was praised for the way he handled the postgame of the brawl. Xavier has been sliced and diced in criticism for their lazy, unapologetic way they handled it.

If other programs refuse to schedule Xavier OOC, and UC kisses them goodbye...........how pathetic will their OOC schedule be? Hopefully very.

And I'm not sold on Mack as their coach. I think he's the first Xavier head coach to come along in a while that actually is going to be very mediocre with the chance of being bad. Perfect timing for their program to return to insignificance.

I don't want to play them anymore. I hate them because their fans, players, coaches, alumni, etc. are all complete ********. It's been that way from the day Huggins stepped foot on UC's campus and restored the roar to the Bearcat program.

They've proven by their immature actions that they can't handle success.

Kick them to the curb like the rest of the NCAA. The don't deserve anything from UC.

Give Babcock a chance to create a new rivalry game with IU or some close proximity name program.

(02-21-2012 04:04 PM)BearChatter v2.0 Wrote:  I'm hoping this is just a stalling tactic by Williams and Babcock, until after the game is played next season. I want to kick their butt one last time, and then wave goodbye to them.

Think about it. After Purdue's Matt Painter made his comments, the officials have been all over the Xavier players during games. Also, I fully expect alot of programs to not be willing to schedule Xavier for an OOC game from here on out, again based on Matt Painter's comments.

Cronin was praised for the way he handled the postgame of the brawl. Xavier has been sliced and diced in criticism for their lazy, unapologetic way they handled it.

If other programs refuse to schedule Xavier OOC, and UC kisses them goodbye...........how pathetic will their OOC schedule be? Hopefully very.

And I'm not sold on Mack as their coach. I think he's the first Xavier head coach to come along in a while that actually is going to be very mediocre with the chance of being bad. Perfect timing for their program to return to insignificance.

I don't want to play them anymore. I hate them because their fans, players, coaches, alumni, etc. are all complete ********. It's been that way from the day Huggins stepped foot on UC's campus and restored the roar to the Bearcat program.

They've proven by their immature actions that they can't handle success.

Kick them to the curb like the rest of the NCAA. The don't deserve anything from UC.

Give Babcock a chance to create a new rivalry game wit IU or some close proximity name program.

+1000 on everything you said.

As for Mack I totally agree. From what I've seen of him so far I think its obvious the guy has no control or discipline over his program.

UC needs all the quality non-conference games they can get.

I talked with a good friend of Pat Kelsey.. Kelsey and Mack got into it because the
players at XU were out of control.. Kelsey said it was wrong and didn't want to
be part of a program run like that and quit..
Pat Kelsey is now running summer camps for NBA players-- doing one for Lebron James..
A lot of dirty little secrets over there.. and we are letting them get away with it..

(02-21-2012 04:18 PM)KCat Wrote:  I talked with a good friend of Pat Kelsey.. Kelsey and Mack got into it because the
players at XU were out of control.. Kelsey said it was wrong and didn't want to
be part of a program run like that and quit..
Pat Kelsey is now running summer camps for NBA players-- doing one for Lebron James..
A lot of dirty little secrets over there.. and we are letting them get away with it..

Heard something similar. I dont know Pat personally but I know a lot of people close to him from Elder and I heard similar things for the reason's he resigned. The vibe I got was that he felt the program was totally out of control and he wanted no part of what they were doing there. And he's a former XU player mind you.

Wasn't he a highly regarded assistant? Maybe we could hire him as an up yours to X.

(02-21-2012 04:27 PM)Marcus Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 04:18 PM)KCat Wrote:  I talked with a good friend of Pat Kelsey.. Kelsey and Mack got into it because the
players at XU were out of control.. Kelsey said it was wrong and didn't want to
be part of a program run like that and quit..
Pat Kelsey is now running summer camps for NBA players-- doing one for Lebron James..
A lot of dirty little secrets over there.. and we are letting them get away with it..

Heard something similar. I dont know Pat personally but I know a lot of people close to him from Elder and I heard similar things for the reason's he resigned. The vibe I got was that he felt the program was totally out of control and he wanted no part of what they were doing there. And he's a former XU player mind you.

The rumor I've heard is something different and more specific.

I don't think you'll see anything but a decline with Mack at the helm over there. He's no Miller or Matta.

(02-21-2012 05:24 PM)levydl Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 04:27 PM)Marcus Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 04:18 PM)KCat Wrote:  I talked with a good friend of Pat Kelsey.. Kelsey and Mack got into it because the
players at XU were out of control.. Kelsey said it was wrong and didn't want to
be part of a program run like that and quit..
Pat Kelsey is now running summer camps for NBA players-- doing one for Lebron James..
A lot of dirty little secrets over there.. and we are letting them get away with it..

Heard something similar. I dont know Pat personally but I know a lot of people close to him from Elder and I heard similar things for the reason's he resigned. The vibe I got was that he felt the program was totally out of control and he wanted no part of what they were doing there. And he's a former XU player mind you.

The rumor I've heard is something different and more specific.

I heard something different as well, but I have no idea how reliable it is.

(02-21-2012 05:24 PM)levydl Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 04:27 PM)Marcus Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 04:18 PM)KCat Wrote:  I talked with a good friend of Pat Kelsey.. Kelsey and Mack got into it because the
players at XU were out of control.. Kelsey said it was wrong and didn't want to
be part of a program run like that and quit..
Pat Kelsey is now running summer camps for NBA players-- doing one for Lebron James..
A lot of dirty little secrets over there.. and we are letting them get away with it..

Heard something similar. I dont know Pat personally but I know a lot of people close to him from Elder and I heard similar things for the reason's he resigned. The vibe I got was that he felt the program was totally out of control and he wanted no part of what they were doing there. And he's a former XU player mind you.

The rumor I've heard is something different and more specific.

The other story out there, I've at least been told is false if it is the one that involves his "spouse".

(02-21-2012 03:30 PM)BearcatOtto Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 02:53 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 02:45 PM)BearcatOtto Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 02:15 PM)Marcus Wrote:  Yet another terrible decision by UC's administration.

Why in the world they continue to try to play nice with XU is beyond me. It's the same thing over and over, the media continues to $hit on UC in this city, makes them out to be the bad guys and the thugs, yet when XU starts acting that way UC's adminitration refuses to stand up for their own school and takes part in covering things up that would reflect badly on XU.

I can't believe they are continuing this game after what happened. Not only that but I cant believe they went out of their way to cover up what Kenny Frease did to the wife of a UC employee in the stands. It just pisses me off so much that this administration operates the way they do. In turn it continues to make XU look like the good guys and UC the bad guys. Would XU's administration cover up what happened had as UC player struck a coaches wife? Hell no. It would have been front story in the paper's, national news, etc...

I just cant believe they are continuing this series with the behavior through the years we see from the Xavier players and especially fans. Nothing good comes from it other than XU getting their Super Bowl every year and having the media in this city drool over what a great program they have.

Pretty sure that Whit knows exactly what happened in the first row with the coaches wife. He was sitting right there!

I also feel confident that if Freese would have actually struck a coach's wife that further action would have been taken, including eliminating the game in the future.

In the video I saw, I did not see any contact with Freese and anybody in the front row.

The video on channel 19 didn't show any physical altercation, however Frease and a couple others were definately standing on chairs throwing F bombs towards our AD and some 60 year old women. That's enough for me.

Father Graham can placate Williams all he wants. Series needs to end. Hostile environment is one thing. To act like a bunch of D Bags is another. Completely classless institution. Maybe they can go coverup more sexual assualts/rapes over there.

Classless...yes. But far from striking another person.

My point for Marcus' statement that there never was any contact with anyone in the stands. That is the basis of most of his argument about whether UC should continue to schedule any upcoming games with X.

There absolutely was "contact" as you put it. Just because YOU didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. The only reason that Frease isn't a guest of the county right now is that Williams stepped in.