(02-08-2012 09:03 AM)CMUprof Wrote:  Not a Temple flame, I promise! But, what does the BE get out of bringing in Temple? Obviously a very good BB program. Also, a better FB team than what Memphis has to currently offer. With their own T-Boone Pickens lite (the FedEx guy) Memphis should be able to put some money into their FB program and make it more respectable than it has been.

What they do get with Memphis is a new market that they currently are not in. Would Temple increase TV sets in Philadelphia over what they currently have with Villanova? If it was about a strong fan base then ECU would already be in a BCS conf.

Taking Memphis, and not Temple, is a sign that the BE will either have to boot nova or live without the Owls because that conference will not suffer both.

There is no objective measure by which the Owls would not have been a better choice.

I think in the climate of today though, if Temple were to have a Top Ten-type season or if they strung together a couple of Top 25 seasons, the Big East would come calling again. It would be easier to overrule any Nova objections if Temple had big sustained success. And I think this is possibly true for Buffalo and UMass as well, probably longer term success would be needed, say, 3 big seasons in a row and the Big East would take a look. Could it be true of other MAC schools? Let's say Toledo had been just dominant for four years in a row, cracking the Top 25, certainly.

In that sense the smaller conferences are like farm leagues for larger ones.

The Conf-USA situation now, at least it makes it less likely that any MAC schools would get poached by that league, I hope.

(02-08-2012 10:05 AM)MacLord Wrote:  I think in the climate of today though, if Temple were to have a Top Ten-type season or if they strung together a couple of Top 25 seasons, the Big East would come calling again. It would be easier to overrule any Nova objections if Temple had big sustained success. And I think this is possibly true for Buffalo and UMass as well, probably longer term success would be needed, say, 3 big seasons in a row and the Big East would take a look. Could it be true of other MAC schools? Let's say Toledo had been just dominant for four years in a row, cracking the Top 25, certainly.

How about NIU. Consecutive 11-win seasons, consecutive division titles/Championship game appearances, a MAC Championship title, consecutive end-of-season #26 ranking.

What would NIU need to add on to the last two years? Another year or two?

Sorry, but the chances of a Toledo or NIU going to the Big East, even after 3-4 dominant seasons in the MAC, are very slim.

(02-08-2012 10:16 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  Sorry, but the chances of a Toledo or NIU going to the Big East, even after 3-4 dominant seasons in the MAC, are very slim.

I wouldn't have bet on Boise State joining the Big East prior to a year ago, but desperate times....

(02-08-2012 09:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-08-2012 09:03 AM)CMUprof Wrote:  Not a Temple flame, I promise! But, what does the BE get out of bringing in Temple? Obviously a very good BB program. Also, a better FB team than what Memphis has to currently offer. With their own T-Boone Pickens lite (the FedEx guy) Memphis should be able to put some money into their FB program and make it more respectable than it has been.

What they do get with Memphis is a new market that they currently are not in. Would Temple increase TV sets in Philadelphia over what they currently have with Villanova? If it was about a strong fan base then ECU would already be in a BCS conf.

Taking Memphis, and not Temple, is a sign that the BE will either have to boot nova or live without the Owls because that conference will not suffer both.

There is no objective measure by which the Owls would not have been a better choice.

Sure there is, new tv markets. According to Nielsen Memphis is #48 with about 700,000. Nowhere near Temple's #4 market with 3 million, but the Big East is already there with Villanova. I don't believe that doubling up in Philadelphia expands their ability to negotiate a better tv deal.

(02-08-2012 10:11 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  

(02-08-2012 10:05 AM)MacLord Wrote:  I think in the climate of today though, if Temple were to have a Top Ten-type season or if they strung together a couple of Top 25 seasons, the Big East would come calling again. It would be easier to overrule any Nova objections if Temple had big sustained success. And I think this is possibly true for Buffalo and UMass as well, probably longer term success would be needed, say, 3 big seasons in a row and the Big East would take a look. Could it be true of other MAC schools? Let's say Toledo had been just dominant for four years in a row, cracking the Top 25, certainly.

How about NIU. Consecutive 11-win seasons, consecutive division titles/Championship game appearances, a MAC Championship title, consecutive end-of-season #26 ranking.

What would NIU need to add on to the last two years? Another year or two?

A hoops program not ranked south of 300 in the rpi standings...

(02-08-2012 10:16 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  Sorry, but the chances of a Toledo or NIU going to the Big East, even after 3-4 dominant seasons in the MAC, are very slim.

I wasn't thinking the "big" East.

After AQ status is gone, it will simply be one of the next three conferences after the Big Four (Big 12, PAC-12, B1G, SEC), along with the ACC and the MAC.

(02-08-2012 10:18 AM)CMUprof Wrote:  

(02-08-2012 09:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-08-2012 09:03 AM)CMUprof Wrote:  Not a Temple flame, I promise! But, what does the BE get out of bringing in Temple? Obviously a very good BB program. Also, a better FB team than what Memphis has to currently offer. With their own T-Boone Pickens lite (the FedEx guy) Memphis should be able to put some money into their FB program and make it more respectable than it has been.

What they do get with Memphis is a new market that they currently are not in. Would Temple increase TV sets in Philadelphia over what they currently have with Villanova? If it was about a strong fan base then ECU would already be in a BCS conf.

Taking Memphis, and not Temple, is a sign that the BE will either have to boot nova or live without the Owls because that conference will not suffer both.

There is no objective measure by which the Owls would not have been a better choice.

Sure there is, new tv markets. According to Nielsen Memphis is #48 with about 700,000. Nowhere near Temple's #4 market with 3 million, but the Big East is already there with Villanova. I don't believe that doubling up in Philadelphia expands their ability to negotiate a better tv deal.

Actually, Memphis is now #49 down one spot from the previous year.

(02-08-2012 10:11 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  

(02-08-2012 10:05 AM)MacLord Wrote:  I think in the climate of today though, if Temple were to have a Top Ten-type season or if they strung together a couple of Top 25 seasons, the Big East would come calling again. It would be easier to overrule any Nova objections if Temple had big sustained success. And I think this is possibly true for Buffalo and UMass as well, probably longer term success would be needed, say, 3 big seasons in a row and the Big East would take a look. Could it be true of other MAC schools? Let's say Toledo had been just dominant for four years in a row, cracking the Top 25, certainly.

How about NIU. Consecutive 11-win seasons, consecutive division titles/Championship game appearances, a MAC Championship title, consecutive end-of-season #26 ranking.

What would NIU need to add on to the last two years? Another year or two?

CMU had a 4 year stretch better than that (aside from the 11 win seasons, we had a 10 and a 12 though) with 3 out of 4 division and MAC titles and a top 25 ranking. Nobody came sniffing around.

Granted, these are different times and NIU is better poised with proximity to Chicago. I can't imagine being the AD at NIU that says "we are moving on again, but this time it will work."

(02-08-2012 10:19 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-08-2012 10:11 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  

(02-08-2012 10:05 AM)MacLord Wrote:  I think in the climate of today though, if Temple were to have a Top Ten-type season or if they strung together a couple of Top 25 seasons, the Big East would come calling again. It would be easier to overrule any Nova objections if Temple had big sustained success. And I think this is possibly true for Buffalo and UMass as well, probably longer term success would be needed, say, 3 big seasons in a row and the Big East would take a look. Could it be true of other MAC schools? Let's say Toledo had been just dominant for four years in a row, cracking the Top 25, certainly.

How about NIU. Consecutive 11-win seasons, consecutive division titles/Championship game appearances, a MAC Championship title, consecutive end-of-season #26 ranking.

What would NIU need to add on to the last two years? Another year or two?

A hoops program not ranked south of 300 in the rpi standings...

Bingo.

(02-08-2012 10:27 AM)CMUprof Wrote:  CMU had a 4 year stretch better than that (aside from the 11 win seasons, we had a 10 and a 12 though) with 3 out of 4 division and MAC titles and a top 25 ranking. Nobody came sniffing around.

Granted, these are different times and NIU is better poised with proximity to Chicago. I can't imagine being the AD at NIU that says "we are moving on again, but this time it will work."

With all due respect, Mt. Pleasant and the Flint-Saginaw-Bay City TV market (#68) isn't Dekalb and the Chicago DMA (#3).

That's a really, really big difference.

The top TV market "non-AQ" fbs schools are:

#3 DMA - NIU
#4 DMA - Temple
#5 DMA - UNT

In today's market, these schools SHOULD be highly attractive and with sustained success (4 years?) as suggested in the earlier post, they SHOULD be targets for conferences looking to expand.

(02-08-2012 10:42 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  The top TV market "non-AQ" fbs schools are:

#3 DMA - NIU
#4 DMA - Temple
#5 DMA - UNT

In today's market, these schools SHOULD be highly attractive and with sustained success (4 years?) as suggested in the earlier post, they SHOULD be targets for conferences looking to expand.

Its not just the size of the market, this is a specious argument that people throw around all the time. Market size *might* matter to the mid majors but what is the DMA ranking for Columbus, Ohio? Now who gets more folks watching them on TV, Ohio State or NorthWestern (which is actually in Chicago).

That's not to say if you're choosing between two programs, all else being equal, you might go for the market but there are at least several non athletic factors that rank above market size.

My intention was not to suggest what MAC schools would or would not get a look, but to say that in these times success on the field is definitely an element. Boise got where they were by sustained national-level success. Put it this way, if Temple played football upon joining the MAC as they had for the many years they were not in the MAC, do you think we'd be discussing them moving to the Big East, even in these lean times? The Big East could afford to say, well, if Temple ever gets good again, then we can talk. They did get good, but not good enough to really move the needle. Had they dominated the MAC for four years, I think they'd be gone, no question.

Other MAC schools can make cases for themselves for various reasons. Some better than others. My main point as pertinent to this thread is, yes, Temple, we accept your thanks, but if you get TOO good in this league, in this climate, you will be gone, methinks.

(02-08-2012 10:49 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  ...NorthWestern (which is actually in Chicago).

No. Northwestern is in Evanston, which is a city that is part of the Chicago DMA just like DeKalb is.

(02-08-2012 10:53 AM)MacLord Wrote:  ...Temple, we accept your thanks...

(02-08-2012 10:18 AM)MacLord Wrote:  

(02-08-2012 10:16 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  Sorry, but the chances of a Toledo or NIU going to the Big East, even after 3-4 dominant seasons in the MAC, are very slim.

I wouldn't have bet on Boise State joining the Big East prior to a year ago, but desperate times....

Totally different. Let me put it this way, Toledo and NIU's chances of going to a BCS AQ conference are very, very slim....regardless of which conference it is.

Boise State had a much better chance of going to a BCS AQ conference than Toledo or NIU for several years.

(02-08-2012 09:26 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-08-2012 08:28 AM)TUJim Wrote:  I doubt if Temple would take an all sports invite to CUSA with Memphis moving to the BE....better bball teams in the A10. For football only, don't see the point. I think Temple like any of the top MAC football schools would take a football only invite to a BCS AQ conference, other then that the money would have to be awfully good to make a move worthwhile. I think the MAC could be in a good position come 2013 when the AQ agreement expires....with Memphis for football to me at that point you have to consider the BE a "mid major" for football. Just wish we could get at least 4 primary bowl tie ins instead of 3

That kind of what I was thinking, whats the point of CUSA football only right now? No team in the MAC, not even Temple or UMass would pay 2 million to leave the conference just to play football with CUSA. Like you say the money is just not that much better.

As to the bowl set up there will be opportunities for the MAC and SunBelt to poach a bowl game or two unless CUSA pulls some decent members out of their hat.

Going back to your idea of reaching out to East Carolina and Marshall, something like that could help the MAC renegotiate a better TV deal.

I would think that ECU misses its mid week CUSA exposure from years ago and might be willing to explore a similar package with the MAC.

Could the MAC pickup the Belk Bowl for its #1 with ECU as part of the conference? I don't know.

Looking at it from the other side, does it just make sense for CUSA to make a few "strategic adds" to take themselves back to 12.

West: UTEP, Rice, Tulsa, Tulane, Ark State, So Miss.
East: Marshall, WKU, Middle Tenn, UAB, ECU, FIU

WKU/MTSU would give Marshall and UAB a few natural rivals. Ark State is located directly across from Memphis and would help recoup that market for CUSA.

The MWC takes in Utah State, SJSU, Idaho. The Sun Belt down to 6 teams takes in UTSA, Texas St, La Tech, New Mexico State.

The WAC ends up absorbed as a football conference, preventing more schools from moving up to the top level.

(02-08-2012 10:21 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  

(02-08-2012 10:16 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  Sorry, but the chances of a Toledo or NIU going to the Big East, even after 3-4 dominant seasons in the MAC, are very slim.

I wasn't thinking the "big" East.

After AQ status is gone, it will simply be one of the next three conferences after the Big Four (Big 12, PAC-12, B1G, SEC), along with the ACC and the MAC.

A lot of IF's there. Besides, the point is that financially "we" don't fit with them. Unless Toledo or NIU start acting the part, they are not getting a sniff.

I've said for a long time that a school has to jump to a conference that is PERCEIVED as a step up from the MAC first. This perception is not all about play on the field, if at all. It's about money more than anything else.