I've ran across a number of Fundamentalists and non-Denominational Christians who not only does not believe in Evolution, but believe the earth is no more than 10,000 years old.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp

Young-Earth creationism.

I think you're insane if you don't believe in evolution, to an extent. Even in our own time on earth we can observe evolutionary changes. These don't, IMO, go against God's teachings.

However, I find evolution across something even as specialized as "genus" tough to believe. I'll readily admit that I don't know enough about biology (it's my least favorite natural science) to have a response that I'm happy with.

Mico-evolution, yes. Definitely.
Macro-evolution... Don't see the evidence, or even logic, behind it.

I don't have an answer to the "age of earth" question. But if you have the faith needed to believe a number of items in The Bible, you should be able to believe that a "year" or "day" in Genesis is not what we perceive as those durations. I know this isn't logical, but as I've grown older I've come to see how logic often ruins your day and life.

(06-21-2011 06:48 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Young-Earth creationism.

I would fall into that group; however, it is NOT a salvation issue. Personally,I put my faith in the Words of the Bible and not the words of scientists.

Evolution clever theory has not passed the scientific testing. There is not any historical evidence of change in the DNA of man or ape into man. I do believe in micro evolution, we are bigger and can not do this or that...... but not macro evolution.

The earth is millions of years young, but even this shall pass.

(06-21-2011 06:53 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(06-21-2011 06:48 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Young-Earth creationism.

I would fall into that group; however, it is NOT a salvation issue. Personally,I put my faith in the Words of the Bible and not the words of scientists.

tsk. tsk. Exactly how does this:



evolve into this:



if not for macro-evolution?

To me, evolution proves the existence of God. I actually don't see how you can be both a scientist and an atheist. The more science discovers, the more support there is for the concept that there's a detailed plan, and that requires an omnipotent planner.

Clearly, that there is a god would not necessarily prove that it is the Christian God. But that's the one that works for me.

(06-21-2011 07:37 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  The earth is millions of years young, but even this shall pass.

At least get this part right - billions, as in about 4.5 billion ... just enough to require 33 bits.

(06-21-2011 06:23 PM)miko33 Wrote:  I've ran across a number of Fundamentalists and non-Denominational Christians who not only does not believe in Evolution, but believe the earth is no more than 10,000 years old.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp

I tend to be an old-Earth believer.

I can appreciate why a Young Earth Creationist believes the way he does, but I think the vehemence with which many YEC believe (e.g. Ken Hamm) is a disservice to them.

(06-21-2011 08:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  To me, evolution proves the existence of God. I actually don't see how you can be both a scientist and an atheist. The more science discovers, the more support there is for the concept that there's a detailed plan, and that requires an omnipotent planner.

Clearly, that there is a god would not necessarily prove that it is the Christian God. But that's the one that works for me.

I think I'm in the same boat. I think a belief in God along with an appreciation for the sciences and mathematics is not contradictory. I think too many of the "YEC's(?)" have to willfully bury their head in the sand and ignore all of the scientific evidence that proves their theories wrong. I find faith can be strengthened by studying the world and the universe.

(06-21-2011 08:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  ....... I actually don't see how you can be both a scientist and an atheist. The more science discovers, the more support there is for the concept that there's a detailed plan, and that requires an omnipotent planner.......

+1.... Knowledge reveals GOD. The perfect balance of the elements of the atmosphere. The perfect dance of the stars and planets. DNA. Photosynthesis.

I think therefore I am. ......2 x 0 = 0,...8 x 0 = 0 ....666 x 0 = 0..... Life is not an illusion and mathematically we know and understand that we are not self created from nothing.

The Bible does not say how old the earth is, and from a Christian or Biblical point of view, it doesn't matter. Thousands of years old or billions of years old, or somewhere in between: So What?

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

That, probably the best-known English-translation of Genesis 1:1, is the most audacious claim in the Bible. Once a person accepts and believes that there is a God with the power to do that, all the other "weird" stuff in the Bible (virgin birth, resurrection, etc.) seems like pretty small potatos in comparison, if you ask me. And determining the exact "age" of the planet is even smaller than most.

(06-21-2011 06:50 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  I think you're insane if you don't believe in evolution, to an extent.

Lateral, not vertical. Of course we evolve. We didn't evolve from a f'n ape.

(06-21-2011 09:37 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  

(06-21-2011 08:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  ....... I actually don't see how you can be both a scientist and an atheist. The more science discovers, the more support there is for the concept that there's a detailed plan, and that requires an omnipotent planner.......

+1.... Knowledge reveals GOD. The perfect balance of the elements of the atmosphere. The perfect dance of the stars and planets. DNA. Photosynthesis.

I think therefore I am. ......2 x 0 = 0,...8 x 0 = 0 ....666 x 0 = 0..... Life is not an illusion and mathematically we know and understand that we are not self created from nothing.

We would not exist if there were no moon for tidal action. We would not exist if ice did not float on water. We would not exist if the temp. range of liquid water were smaller. If earth were not in the Goldilocks zone. If the atmosphere were thinner, the magnetic field weaker or stronger. Mass extinction on this planet happens, and could happen again. It's hard to conclude that there is no design, when chaos is more common.

(06-21-2011 10:16 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(06-21-2011 09:37 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  

(06-21-2011 08:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  ....... I actually don't see how you can be both a scientist and an atheist. The more science discovers, the more support there is for the concept that there's a detailed plan, and that requires an omnipotent planner.......

+1.... Knowledge reveals GOD. The perfect balance of the elements of the atmosphere. The perfect dance of the stars and planets. DNA. Photosynthesis.

I think therefore I am. ......2 x 0 = 0,...8 x 0 = 0 ....666 x 0 = 0..... Life is not an illusion and mathematically we know and understand that we are not self created from nothing.

We would not exist if there were no moon for tidal action. We would not exist if ice did not float on water. We would not exist if the temp. range of liquid water were smaller. If earth were not in the Goldilocks zone. If the atmosphere were thinner, the magnetic field weaker or stronger. Mass extinction on this planet happens, and could happen again. It's hard to conclude that there is no design, when chaos is more common.

Yes...I would agree. It is very hard for me to believe that all the things that are required for living things to thrive here in the vacuum of space just happened. If so..none of us need to play the lottery. We already won it.

I think that evolution does exist in different forms and the bible doesn't dispute it. The bible said that God created man in his own image, he also created the heavens and earth, and all of the other creatures on it. Nowhere did it say that these things would go unchanged, because in the long run, it's not important enough to influence the religion. Is his image how we remained? I don't know.

(06-21-2011 06:53 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(06-21-2011 06:48 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Young-Earth creationism.

I would fall into that group; however, it is NOT a salvation issue. Personally,I put my faith in the Words of the Bible and not the words of scientists.

Then I suggest you move from "South of Crazytown" to "Crazytown".

(06-21-2011 10:12 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(06-21-2011 06:50 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  I think you're insane if you don't believe in evolution, to an extent.

Lateral, not vertical. Of course we evolve. We didn't evolve from a f'n ape.

It is obvious YOU didn't but most of us did.

(06-22-2011 02:04 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(06-21-2011 10:12 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(06-21-2011 06:50 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  I think you're insane if you don't believe in evolution, to an extent.

Lateral, not vertical. Of course we evolve. We didn't evolve from a f'n ape.

It is obvious YOU didn't but most of us did.

Rebs was born that way, baby! ( there. The board gots it's daily injection of gay and gaga at once.)

(06-22-2011 12:00 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I think that evolution does exist in different forms and the bible doesn't dispute it. The bible said that God created man in his own image, he also created the heavens and earth, and all of the other creatures on it. Nowhere did it say that these things would go unchanged, because in the long run, it's not important enough to influence the religion. Is his image how we remained? I don't know.

You as I see the Bible as book chocked full of allegories...Starting from the beginning. It takes one hell of a leap of faith to believe it literally. I have no problem with those that do. I just could never be one of them. I have enough trouble buying into any of it.