(04-25-2011 03:25 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Since you're a reasonable fan, where do you see USF in the Tampa market? You think they're a major player or has it sort of cooled since the big success you had when you came into the Big East and jumped up the ranks for those few weeks? I know Orlando has seemed to make a fairly large push to support UCF as a city. We're still behind UF and most likely FSU, but we seem to be above UM and gaining on FSU. I just want to know if USF is the same, or if having the Bucs might be hurting you as you already have a hometown football team to root for?

Tampa is a Bucs town, but it's also a huge college football town. It's not like one of those northern cities, like Boston or New York or Philly where rooting for the NFL means you don't care about college football. In Tampa, people fly their USF or Florida or FSU flags on Saturday and their Bucs flags on sunday.

USF's self-identity has improved by leaps and bounds since football was introduced. When i was living in the dorms during the 1980s, you would see lots of UF or FSU or Miami flags and banners in USF dorm rooms, but no USF gear. That has changed dramatically. The football team has provided a very strong cohesive element for the USF community.

That said, the Tampa Bay area still is 'owned' by UF and FSU fans. Even Miami has a large contingent. E.g., when Miami played the Bulls in Tampa in November 2009, probably 35% to 40% of the crowd was wearing Miami gear. That's about where we currently stand ...

(04-25-2011 07:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 03:25 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Since you're a reasonable fan, where do you see USF in the Tampa market? You think they're a major player or has it sort of cooled since the big success you had when you came into the Big East and jumped up the ranks for those few weeks? I know Orlando has seemed to make a fairly large push to support UCF as a city. We're still behind UF and most likely FSU, but we seem to be above UM and gaining on FSU. I just want to know if USF is the same, or if having the Bucs might be hurting you as you already have a hometown football team to root for?

Tampa is a Bucs town, but it's also a huge college football town. It's not like one of those northern cities, like Boston or New York or Philly where rooting for the NFL means you don't care about college football. In Tampa, people fly their USF or Florida or FSU flags on Saturday and their Bucs flags on sunday.

USF's self-identity has improved by leaps and bounds since football was introduced. When i was living in the dorms during the 1980s, you would see lots of UF or FSU or Miami flags and banners in USF dorm rooms, but no USF gear. That has changed dramatically. The football team has provided a very strong cohesive element for the USF community.

That said, the Tampa Bay area still is 'owned' by UF and FSU fans. Even Miami has a large contingent. E.g., when Miami played the Bulls in Tampa in November 2009, probably 35% to 40% of the crowd was wearing Miami gear. That's about where we currently stand ...

I wouldnt go that far. While I think we are still behind the gators in the area, I think we are ahead of FSU. You cant judge the support due to crowds, Miami had a lot of their fans also come up for the game. It would be like me judging the support for USF in Miami area by the USF fans at the last game. I think in Tampa you see a lot more USF support than FSU

FSU as a whole doesn't seem to own any markets south of Tally but they just have a major chunk of *EVERY* market, at least from what I've seen. Agree?

(04-25-2011 07:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 03:25 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Since you're a reasonable fan, where do you see USF in the Tampa market? You think they're a major player or has it sort of cooled since the big success you had when you came into the Big East and jumped up the ranks for those few weeks? I know Orlando has seemed to make a fairly large push to support UCF as a city. We're still behind UF and most likely FSU, but we seem to be above UM and gaining on FSU. I just want to know if USF is the same, or if having the Bucs might be hurting you as you already have a hometown football team to root for?

Tampa is a Bucs town, but it's also a huge college football town. It's not like one of those northern cities, like Boston or New York or Philly where rooting for the NFL means you don't care about college football. In Tampa, people fly their USF or Florida or FSU flags on Saturday and their Bucs flags on sunday.

USF's self-identity has improved by leaps and bounds since football was introduced. When i was living in the dorms during the 1980s, you would see lots of UF or FSU or Miami flags and banners in USF dorm rooms, but no USF gear. That has changed dramatically. The football team has provided a very strong cohesive element for the USF community.

That said, the Tampa Bay area still is 'owned' by UF and FSU fans. Even Miami has a large contingent. E.g., when Miami played the Bulls in Tampa in November 2009, probably 35% to 40% of the crowd was wearing Miami gear. That's about where we currently stand ...

You are overstating FSU's reach and certainly Miami's.

UF is admired statewide. FSU not so much. Miami has been chased out this market and Orlando.

USF television and radio ratings run second only to UF in the Tampa Bay area. In fact, FSU hasn't been able to find a following or station broadcast their coaches show for football and basketball on a consistent basis. Miami is an afterthought in this market and haven't had a Bay are beat writer assigned to cover them regularly for years.

Every dog has its day!

(04-25-2011 09:45 PM)CyberBull Wrote:  You are overstating FSU's reach and certainly Miami's.

UF is admired statewide. FSU not so much. Miami has been chased out this market and Orlando.

USF television and radio ratings run second only to UF in the Tampa Bay area. In fact, FSU hasn't been able to find a following or station broadcast their coaches show for football and basketball on a consistent basis. Miami is an afterthought in this market and haven't had a Bay are beat writer assigned to cover them regularly for years.

I think USF has been an overall successful addition to the BE. That being said, the overstatements have generally been about the supposed downfalls of FSU and Miami. Maybe all of these USF and UCF fans are correct that no one is paying attention to them in Florida for some reason (which I find to be doubtful), but they're still massive national draws even in relative down periods.

Out of the 8 most watched college football games in the history of ESPN, 3 of them are Miami-FSU games and there's also a Miami-Florida game and a FSU-Clemson game. That means 5 out of the 8 most-watched games on ESPN ever involved Miami, FSU or both of them. One game is from 1994, but all of the others are from the past 4 seasons, so it's not just from the "ancient history" of the 1990s, either[/i]. As a result, they are monumentally more powerful TV entities than many people here seem to want to give them credit for (which I'm guessing is the result of "What have you done for me lately?" syndrome)... and when they actually get really good again (and anyone that doesn't think that will happen is drinking some wacky Kool-Aid), they will blow the ratings out of the water even further.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/seminoles/...pn-history

(04-25-2011 09:21 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  FSU as a whole doesn't seem to own any markets south of Tally but they just have a major chunk of *EVERY* market, at least from what I've seen. Agree?

Agree. They don't even own Jacksonville - UF does. But there is a sizeable FSU contingent anywhere you go in the state.

(04-25-2011 10:03 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 09:45 PM)CyberBull Wrote:  You are overstating FSU's reach and certainly Miami's.

UF is admired statewide. FSU not so much. Miami has been chased out this market and Orlando.

USF television and radio ratings run second only to UF in the Tampa Bay area. In fact, FSU hasn't been able to find a following or station broadcast their coaches show for football and basketball on a consistent basis. Miami is an afterthought in this market and haven't had a Bay are beat writer assigned to cover them regularly for years.

I think USF has been an overall successful addition to the BE. That being said, the overstatements have generally been about the supposed downfalls of FSU and Miami. Maybe all of these USF and UCF fans are correct that no one is paying attention to them in Florida for some reason (which I find to be doubtful)

I doubt it too. I only hesitate to fully combat the notion because i no longer live in Florida so am not in daily touch with the happenings. But when i lived there, FSU and Miami were strong in the Tampa area, FSU really so, and when i visit the area twice a year (summer vacation and thanksgiving), i get the same impression.

I think Bulls fans who think we have surpassed FSU in the Tampa area are kidding themselves, but i hope i'm wrong.

When I lived in the Western Panhandle (near Destin) of Florida in the late 90s...it was FSU first but UF, Auburn and Bama were also major players. Miami was basically nonexistent.

(04-25-2011 10:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 09:21 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  FSU as a whole doesn't seem to own any markets south of Tally but they just have a major chunk of *EVERY* market, at least from what I've seen. Agree?

Agree. They don't even own Jacksonville - UF does. But there is a sizeable FSU contingent anywhere you go in the state.

I think FSU is fairly comparable to Texas A&M - they can never quite own their states like their rivals that are the flagships (UF and UT, respectively), but they still have extremely large support in virtually every market in their states. The main difference is from a nationwide perspective, where FSU is an elite national TV draw in a way A&M isn't (and probably never will be).

(04-25-2011 10:03 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 09:45 PM)CyberBull Wrote:  You are overstating FSU's reach and certainly Miami's.

UF is admired statewide. FSU not so much. Miami has been chased out this market and Orlando.

USF television and radio ratings run second only to UF in the Tampa Bay area. In fact, FSU hasn't been able to find a following or station broadcast their coaches show for football and basketball on a consistent basis. Miami is an afterthought in this market and haven't had a Bay are beat writer assigned to cover them regularly for years.

I think USF has been an overall successful addition to the BE. That being said, the overstatements have generally been about the supposed downfalls of FSU and Miami. Maybe all of these USF and UCF fans are correct that no one is paying attention to them in Florida for some reason (which I find to be doubtful), but they're still massive national draws even in relative down periods.

Out of the 8 most watched college football games in the history of ESPN, 3 of them are Miami-FSU games and there's also a Miami-Florida game and a FSU-Clemson game. That means 5 out of the 8 most-watched games on ESPN ever involved Miami, FSU or both of them. One game is from 1994, but all of the others are from the past 4 seasons, so it's not just from the "ancient history" of the 1990s, either[/i]. As a result, they are monumentally more powerful TV entities than many people here seem to want to give them credit for (which I'm guessing is the result of "What have you done for me lately?" syndrome)... and when they actually get really good again (and anyone that doesn't think that will happen is drinking some wacky Kool-Aid), they will blow the ratings out of the water even further.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/seminoles/...pn-history

Though it's dated from September 2010, it's good to see that the WVU-UL game which drew a 5.3 rating and 4,915,915 TVHHs was still amongst the Top 5 of all-time. The list stopped at #8 because this was an FSU focus but I suspect that the UL-RU game was either at #10 or just outside the Top 10 with its 5.03 rating and 4,642,069 TVHHs.

It's interesting to note that #1, #3, #4, and #8 were all Labor Day Monday Night College Football games. The only game not to make the Top 8 list from 2006 forward was Tenn vs UCLA in 2008. This year's game will be Miami vs Maryland. Not sure that will do as well as those in Top 8 already.

Cheers,
Neil

(04-26-2011 12:26 AM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 10:03 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 09:45 PM)CyberBull Wrote:  You are overstating FSU's reach and certainly Miami's.

UF is admired statewide. FSU not so much. Miami has been chased out this market and Orlando.

USF television and radio ratings run second only to UF in the Tampa Bay area. In fact, FSU hasn't been able to find a following or station broadcast their coaches show for football and basketball on a consistent basis. Miami is an afterthought in this market and haven't had a Bay are beat writer assigned to cover them regularly for years.

I think USF has been an overall successful addition to the BE. That being said, the overstatements have generally been about the supposed downfalls of FSU and Miami. Maybe all of these USF and UCF fans are correct that no one is paying attention to them in Florida for some reason (which I find to be doubtful), but they're still massive national draws even in relative down periods.

Out of the 8 most watched college football games in the history of ESPN, 3 of them are Miami-FSU games and there's also a Miami-Florida game and a FSU-Clemson game. That means 5 out of the 8 most-watched games on ESPN ever involved Miami, FSU or both of them. One game is from 1994, but all of the others are from the past 4 seasons, so it's not just from the "ancient history" of the 1990s, either[/i]. As a result, they are monumentally more powerful TV entities than many people here seem to want to give them credit for (which I'm guessing is the result of "What have you done for me lately?" syndrome)... and when they actually get really good again (and anyone that doesn't think that will happen is drinking some wacky Kool-Aid), they will blow the ratings out of the water even further.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/seminoles/...pn-history

Though it's dated from September 2010, it's good to see that the WVU-UL game which drew a 5.3 rating and 4,915,915 TVHHs was still amongst the Top 5 of all-time. The list stopped at #8 because this was an FSU focus but I suspect that the UL-RU game was either at #10 or just outside the Top 10 with its 5.03 rating and 4,642,069 TVHHs.

It's interesting to note that #1, #3, #4, and #8 were all Labor Day Monday Night College Football games. The only game not to make the Top 8 list from 2006 forward was Tenn vs UCLA in 2008. This year's game will be Miami vs Maryland. Not sure that will do as well as those in Top 8 already.

Cheers,
Neil

Frank is very good at spinning as if all those great ratings were due to FSU and Miami along as if time slots did not matter. Lawyers are good at making arguments while leaving out important data. Put FSU vs. Miami on a WED night in the middle of Oct when they both suck and see how many people watch. That's the real test. People like to watch teams when they are good, not just names on the front of the jerseys only. There is a reason why Boise vs. VTECH was most watched while WVU vs. UL was #5.

Based on those data, I am surprised ACC did not get a $5B over 5 years cause they obviously got the most watched teams in the history of college football. I remember the same argument being used on how UNC/DUKE basketball was the greatest teams on earth better than any other in existence. ACC commissioner must be the biggest idiot on earth cause he landed such horrible TV deal for the ACC.

(04-25-2011 10:03 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 09:45 PM)CyberBull Wrote:  You are overstating FSU's reach and certainly Miami's.

UF is admired statewide. FSU not so much. Miami has been chased out this market and Orlando.

USF television and radio ratings run second only to UF in the Tampa Bay area. In fact, FSU hasn't been able to find a following or station broadcast their coaches show for football and basketball on a consistent basis. Miami is an afterthought in this market and haven't had a Bay are beat writer assigned to cover them regularly for years.

I think USF has been an overall successful addition to the BE. That being said, the overstatements have generally been about the supposed downfalls of FSU and Miami. Maybe all of these USF and UCF fans are correct that no one is paying attention to them in Florida for some reason (which I find to be doubtful), but they're still massive national draws even in relative down periods.

Out of the 8 most watched college football games in the history of ESPN, 3 of them are Miami-FSU games and there's also a Miami-Florida game and a FSU-Clemson game. That means 5 out of the 8 most-watched games on ESPN ever involved Miami, FSU or both of them. One game is from 1994, but all of the others are from the past 4 seasons, so it's not just from the "ancient history" of the 1990s, either[/i]. As a result, they are monumentally more powerful TV entities than many people here seem to want to give them credit for (which I'm guessing is the result of "What have you done for me lately?" syndrome)... and when they actually get really good again (and anyone that doesn't think that will happen is drinking some wacky Kool-Aid), they will blow the ratings out of the water even further.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/seminoles/...pn-history

Of course you get a different picture here:

http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/17...tched-game

(04-25-2011 10:25 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  When I lived in the Western Panhandle (near Destin) of Florida in the late 90s...it was FSU first but UF, Auburn and Bama were also major players. Miami was basically nonexistent.

Good point. FSU definitely is ahead of Florida in that 200 mile stretch of desolation between Tally and Pensacola, and since Alabama is right above that area, Auburn and Bama have good support there too.

I think it might be a good idea to defer, regarding what programs have the most fans in what areas of Florida, to those who
have their feet on the ground in Florida.

(04-26-2011 06:31 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  I think it might be a good idea to defer, regarding what programs have the most fans in what areas of Florida, to those who
have their feet on the ground in Florida.

Excellent point.

Its all about perception. But does perception always reflect reality? Many times it does, but not always.

Being a native Floridian from the Tampa Bay area, who hasnt lived there since 1987, I can tell you that back then, FSU was number 1 in the State. Florida has since caught up and passed them by. Miami always had a good representation in Tampa Bay. But I can tell you that USF has a large following in the Tampa Bay area today. Is it more than FSU? I cant say for sure, but things change from decade to decade. FSU is no longer the dominant power like they were in the 80s and USF is not some little fcs school anymore either.

What many might not realize was that for 14 straight seasons (1987-2000) FSU finished in the Top 4 in the final AP and/or Coaches Poll rankings.

Since 2000, FSU has finished in the Top 10 just once, in one poll, the 2003 Coaches Poll.

FSU picked up a ton of bandwagon fans during those "good times"...as even before FSU started winning (i.e. their undefeated regular season in 1979), a winless UF team that same season would still draw much larger crowds than FSU....as UF was the flagship "old boys" Univ...while FSU, was mostly a girls school till the late 1940's-early 50's when they went back to being co-ed again.

Back in the 1980's and early 1990's...there were not nearly has many college football games on TV...as it was programs like FSU, Miami, Michigan, Penn State, etc...that seem to control much of the airwaves.

Times have certainly changed...as it seems that most of the 50 plus college football games played on each Saturday can be found on some TV channel or another.

As USF and UCF alumni bases continue to grow (both schools will have over 300,000 alumni by 2020), no clue how their programs will rank in the state as far as popularity...but odds are...it will only continue to grow in the coming years. (Yes, realize one doesn't need to be an alum to be a fan of the Univ, because USF and UCF have a lot of big time donors that never took a class at said institution).

Florida State is not going away quietly. They posted 10 wins last season for the first time in years and they are pulling in top ranked recruiting classes under Jimbo. They look to be heading toward a resurgence.

(04-26-2011 01:08 AM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 12:26 AM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 10:03 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 09:45 PM)CyberBull Wrote:  You are overstating FSU's reach and certainly Miami's.

UF is admired statewide. FSU not so much. Miami has been chased out this market and Orlando.

USF television and radio ratings run second only to UF in the Tampa Bay area. In fact, FSU hasn't been able to find a following or station broadcast their coaches show for football and basketball on a consistent basis. Miami is an afterthought in this market and haven't had a Bay are beat writer assigned to cover them regularly for years.

I think USF has been an overall successful addition to the BE. That being said, the overstatements have generally been about the supposed downfalls of FSU and Miami. Maybe all of these USF and UCF fans are correct that no one is paying attention to them in Florida for some reason (which I find to be doubtful), but they're still massive national draws even in relative down periods.

Out of the 8 most watched college football games in the history of ESPN, 3 of them are Miami-FSU games and there's also a Miami-Florida game and a FSU-Clemson game. That means 5 out of the 8 most-watched games on ESPN ever involved Miami, FSU or both of them. One game is from 1994, but all of the others are from the past 4 seasons, so it's not just from the "ancient history" of the 1990s, either[/i]. As a result, they are monumentally more powerful TV entities than many people here seem to want to give them credit for (which I'm guessing is the result of "What have you done for me lately?" syndrome)... and when they actually get really good again (and anyone that doesn't think that will happen is drinking some wacky Kool-Aid), they will blow the ratings out of the water even further.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/seminoles/...pn-history

Though it's dated from September 2010, it's good to see that the WVU-UL game which drew a 5.3 rating and 4,915,915 TVHHs was still amongst the Top 5 of all-time. The list stopped at #8 because this was an FSU focus but I suspect that the UL-RU game was either at #10 or just outside the Top 10 with its 5.03 rating and 4,642,069 TVHHs.

It's interesting to note that #1, #3, #4, and #8 were all Labor Day Monday Night College Football games. The only game not to make the Top 8 list from 2006 forward was Tenn vs UCLA in 2008. This year's game will be Miami vs Maryland. Not sure that will do as well as those in Top 8 already.

Cheers,
Neil

Frank is very good at spinning as if all those great ratings were due to FSU and Miami along as if time slots did not matter. Lawyers are good at making arguments while leaving out important data. Put FSU vs. Miami on a WED night in the middle of Oct when they both suck and see how many people watch. That's the real test. People like to watch teams when they are good, not just names on the front of the jerseys only. There is a reason why Boise vs. VTECH was most watched while WVU vs. UL was #5.

Based on those data, I am surprised ACC did not get a $5B over 5 years cause they obviously got the most watched teams in the history of college football. I remember the same argument being used on how UNC/DUKE basketball was the greatest teams on earth better than any other in existence. ACC commissioner must be the biggest idiot on earth cause he landed such horrible TV deal for the ACC.

Time slots absolutely matter. However, getting the best time slots is also a function of how popular you are. Also, a large people on this board seem to have this belief that fan bases for Florida State and Miami have disappeared, which I vehemently disagree with. TV contracts are completely about Average Joe Sports Fan in Anytown, USA, and FSU and Miami still have incredible value on that front that a school like UCF would never match no matter how popular they get in Orlando proper.

Let's put it this way: would the BE *ever* pick UCF over Miami or FSU if those 2 latter schools were available? Heck, if the BE could trade with the ACC *any* 2 current BE members for Miami and FSU, do you think they'd hesitate for more than 2 seconds? I don't think there's any question about what the answers would be and that gives you the true insight into who's more valuable. So, who's spinning whom, here?

The only spin is coming from those that are pumping up the expansion candidates and playing down the influence of the massive traditional powers that they directly compete with.

(04-26-2011 06:08 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 10:25 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  When I lived in the Western Panhandle (near Destin) of Florida in the late 90s...it was FSU first but UF, Auburn and Bama were also major players. Miami was basically nonexistent.

Good point. FSU definitely is ahead of Florida in that 200 mile stretch of desolation between Tally and Pensacola, and since Alabama is right above that area, Auburn and Bama have good support there too.

That's why I said south of Tally, you head north or west from there it's FSU first, then Alabama/UGA/Clemson.

And I think nationally FSU is a big draw, as is Miami, but within the state their support isn't all that great. FSU's is getting better now that the whole Bowden fiasco is over and they're putting together a hell of a team, but UM I think has dug itself into such a hole it's gonna be tough to recover. Plus, their administration doesn't seem to care how well their athletics do as long as the academics don't suffer, so that's gonna hurt them quite a bit.