Thanks neoprohibitionists!

Per Capita Incarceration:
# 1 United States: 715 per 100,000 people
# 2 Russia: 584 per 100,000 people
# 3 Belarus: 554 per 100,000 people
# 4 Palau: 523 per 100,000 people
# 5 Belize: 459 per 100,000 people
# 6 Suriname: 437 per 100,000 people
# 7 Dominica: 420 per 100,000 people
# 8 Ukraine: 416 per 100,000 people
# 9 Bahamas, The: 410 per 100,000 people
# 10 South Africa: 402 per 100,000 people

We're keeping goooooood company up there too. The Russians are losing their edge. The may have invented the gulag, but we know how to FILL them.


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pr...per-capita

Wow, each of those places must be a utopia to live in, considering how few people must be commiting crimes.

Wait, what is that - South Africa is dangerous as sin? Russia has remarkable crime problems? Palau's quality of life is ****** and they have a lacking judicial, enforcement and incarceration infrastructure?

But hey, THEY DON"T HAVE CRIMINALS IN JAIL! Herp durp.....

Why is it not clear that one of the reasons that the USA has a high quality of living and is a remarkably safe place to live hinges in many ways on a competent judiciary and incarceration schedule?

You want a one way ticket to go live in Surinam, let me know. I'll pick up half.

You really have some strange views.

(02-18-2011 10:30 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Wow, each of those places must be a utopia to live in, considering how few people must be commiting crimes.

Wait, what is that - South Africa is dangerous as sin? Russia has remarkable crime problems? Palau's quality of life is ****** and they have a lacking judicial, enforcement and incarceration infrastructure?

But hey, THEY DON"T HAVE CRIMINALS IN JAIL! Herp durp.....

Why is it not clear that one of the reasons that the USA has a high quality of living and is a remarkably safe place to live hinges in many ways on a competent judiciary and incarceration schedule?

You want a one way ticket to go live in Surinam, let me know. I'll pick up half.

You really have some strange views.

I think you are using the phrase "remarkably safe" pretty liberally. Some parts of the country are very safe, but virtually no major cities are.

And if our judiciary system was so effective, wouldn't it be deterring criminals from committing the crimes to begin with?

Palau? Had to look up Palau's population, and it's only 20,000. So if I'm reading that right, the number of people in prison there is roughly 100 (taking it down by one-fifth).

Anyhow, I don't think GTS' point was to illustrate how crime-ridden countries are (which, as LS correctly points out, is not necessarily reflected simply by showing incarceration data). But instead, how a significant percentage of that "715" number is actually non-violent dope smokers who shouldn't be locked away in crowded and taxpayer-funded prisons with murderers and rapists to begin with.

(02-18-2011 11:13 AM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  I think you are using the phrase "remarkably safe" pretty liberally. Some parts of the country are very safe, but virtually no major cities are.
And if our judiciary system was so effective, wouldn't it be deterring criminals from committing the crimes to begin with?

In any metric, you would find that the average American lives a rather safe life free of major concerns about crime, corruption, drugs, warlords, the mafia, coups, roving gangs of criminals, or tilted judiciary. Even in major cities. And especially when in comparison the countries used in the original post.

Our judiciary system isn’t built as a deterent; it’s built as a punishment.

(02-18-2011 11:22 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Anyhow, I don't think GTS' point was to illustrate how crime-ridden countries are (which, as LS correctly points out, is not necessarily reflected simply by showing incarceration data). But instead, how a significant percentage of that "715" number is actually non-violent dope smokers who shouldn't be locked away in crowded and taxpayer-funded prisons with murderers and rapists to begin with.

Then why the lazy post and structure? A mocking thread title, and an apples to oranges country comparison with no additional information?

Certainly not your fault, but if he has an axe to grind, let him turn the wheel.

(02-18-2011 11:45 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Then why the lazy post and structure? A mocking thread title, and an apples to oranges country comparison with no additional information?

Certainly not your fault, but if he has an axe to grind, let him turn the wheel.

I presume the end user could fill the gaps between "neoprohibitionists" and gulag. This must be why Ayn Rand wrote 30+ page monologues.

(02-18-2011 11:50 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I presume the end user could fill the gaps between "neoprohibitionists" and gulag. This must be why Ayn Rand wrote 30+ page monologues.

So I have to understand your misunderstanding of the word neoprohibitionist, and then figure out how belief that the influence of alcohol in society should be reduced through legislation and policies which further restrict the sale and possession of alcohol applies to the notorious Soviet-era forced labour camp systems?

Neo-prohibitionism (also spelled neoprohibitionism and neo-Prohibitionism) is the belief that the influence of alcohol in society should be reduced through legislation and policies which further restrict the sale and possession of alcohol in order to reduce average per capita consumption and change social norms to reduce its acceptability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-prohibitionism

(02-18-2011 11:58 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(02-18-2011 11:50 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I presume the end user could fill the gaps between "neoprohibitionists" and gulag. This must be why Ayn Rand wrote 30+ page monologues.

So I have to understand your misunderstanding of the word neoprohibitionist, and then figure out how belief that the influence of alcohol in society should be reduced through legislation and policies which further restrict the sale and possession of alcohol applies to the notorious Soviet-era forced labour camp systems?

Neo-prohibitionism (also spelled neoprohibitionism and neo-Prohibitionism) is the belief that the influence of alcohol in society should be reduced through legislation and policies which further restrict the sale and possession of alcohol in order to reduce average per capita consumption and change social norms to reduce its acceptability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-prohibitionism

I couldn't understand the connection either. Anyway, the Gulag WAS full, unfortunately.

The problem with this country is that people beleive they are owed s**t, and when they don't get what they want, they go out and take it. Until we either (A) break this entitlement mentality or (B) just give everyone whatever they want, we are stuck in this criminal quagmire.

That entitlement mentality is getting stronger among young folks. They are spoon fed this crap in our gubmint schools from the time they were knee high to a grasshopper. Pop culture reinforces it. They get the message that it only matters what YOU want. Everything is relative. Truth is not absolute but rather what you would like it to be. Somebody else can always be blamed for YOUR OWN failures. You can get ahead without really having to work hard for it. If things aren't going well, just quit and blame others. Move to another job - again. Rinse, repeat.

Young people often place more emphasis on the reinforcement from their peers than what values their parents tried to instill in them. Many also believe that their parents themselves and their parents' beliefs are stupid and that adults, in general, know very little. This belief may last well into their early adulthood, depending on whether the person has started a family or not. That has the effect of kicking them in the butt to become responsible.

I, too, knew everything when I was 14. Fortunately, for me, knowledge and life experience made me put away childish things and grow up. The current generation seems to grow up much later in their lives than we did. But reality will smack them in the face and I'm betting it happens sooner, rather than later. They will learn that life isn't fair. Not everything that they wish to have will happen. That there are actual consequences for their actions, or lack of action.

It's not the fault of kids that they don't know how much they don't know.

Luckily, and somewhat miraculously, many great young people still emerge with a firm grasp of reality. Sadly, too many of our current generation have been infused with the wrong set of beliefs and see themselves as entitled to what they have not earned.

We've probably got less white people incarcerated than any other country

(02-18-2011 05:06 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  We've probably got less white people incarcerated than any other country

Yeah, we should probably lock up some innocent white people in the name of equality.

China, Hitler and Stalin have a special way of dealing with their incarceration problems. China, by the way, now has a surplus of body parts for sale.

As a prosecutor, I can tell you it's extremely hard for someone to actually get prison time. We don't have simple harmless drug users in prison. We had drug addicts that rob and stab people in prison. Seriously, it's a myth to say that first-time drug users are going to prison. Even first-time crack sellers probably aren't going to prison and they're drug-dealers. I do think America has more people in prisons than those countries because China, Russia, etc, probably just take you out back and shoot you, rather than give you rights and imprison you.

(02-18-2011 05:19 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(02-18-2011 05:06 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  We've probably got less white people incarcerated than any other country

Yeah, we should probably lock up some innocent white people in the name of equality.

Half of Wall Street should be in jail.

(02-18-2011 03:30 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  That entitlement mentality is getting stronger among young folks. They are spoon fed this crap in our gubmint schools from the time they were knee high to a grasshopper. Pop culture reinforces it. They get the message that it only matters what YOU want. Everything is relative. Truth is not absolute but rather what you would like it to be. Somebody else can always be blamed for YOUR OWN failures. You can get ahead without really having to work hard for it. If things aren't going well, just quit and blame others. Move to another job - again. Rinse, repeat.

Young people often place more emphasis on the reinforcement from their peers than what values their parents tried to instill in them. Many also believe that their parents themselves and their parents' beliefs are stupid and that adults, in general, know very little. This belief may last well into their early adulthood, depending on whether the person has started a family or not. That has the effect of kicking them in the butt to become responsible.

I, too, knew everything when I was 14. Fortunately, for me, knowledge and life experience made me put away childish things and grow up. The current generation seems to grow up much later in their lives than we did. But reality will smack them in the face and I'm betting it happens sooner, rather than later. They will learn that life isn't fair. Not everything that they wish to have will happen. That there are actual consequences for their actions, or lack of action.

It's not the fault of kids that they don't know how much they don't know.

Luckily, and somewhat miraculously, many great young people still emerge with a firm grasp of reality. Sadly, too many of our current generation have been infused with the wrong set of beliefs and see themselves as entitled to what they have not earned.

Not sure why it's like that. I've heard of kids coming back from college thinking they know everything. Wasn't like that for me. What impressed me, rightly or not, was, e.g., History professors standing in front of classes and talking clearly and in an organized way about a topic for an hour, and only occasionally checking their notes. It was pretty much all in their heads. That's when I realized just how little I knew. But even before that, since I was an avid reader, I knew how much knowledge was out there that I had just barely scratched the surface of.

I think you're right though that reality will hit them eventually. Some kids grow up with that reality in place already. Some find out later.

(02-18-2011 05:32 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(02-18-2011 05:19 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(02-18-2011 05:06 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  We've probably got less white people incarcerated than any other country

Yeah, we should probably lock up some innocent white people in the name of equality.

Half of Wall Street should be in jail.

For what crime?

Application of the death penalty a little more would reduce those numbers. :microwave:

(02-18-2011 05:31 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  As a prosecutor, I can tell you it's extremely hard for someone to actually get prison time. We don't have simple harmless drug users in prison. We had drug addicts that rob and stab people in prison. Seriously, it's a myth to say that first-time drug users are going to prison. Even first-time crack sellers probably aren't going to prison and they're drug-dealers. I do think America has more people in prisons than those countries because China, Russia, etc, probably just take you out back and shoot you, rather than give you rights and imprison you.

Big difference between dope smokers and drug addicts.

(02-18-2011 08:42 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Application of the death penalty a little more would reduce those numbers. :microwave:

I used to believe in the death penalty.....but what about all the cases being overturned due to DNA evidence?