I'm a big fan of a couple of, what would be considered club sports, but I don't think they would work as scholarship sports at ETSU.

IMHO think hockey in the south only works in large metro areas, where you have enough transplanted yankees, and/or enough people who want to look at what is basicly a novelty to them.

PS. I have been to one "professional" game in Memphis years ago. I enjoyed going to the game, because it was rough, same response I had to my first Rugby game. But I haven't been to another game, because of the expense/interest balance problem, ie. it cost more than I was interested in paying.

Alabama-Huntsville has a strong scholarship hockey program.

Last year almost all of the attendance leaders of the ECHL were in the south. South Carolina (play in a small town outside of Charleston), Gwinnett, Florida (play outside of Ft. Myers- Florida Gulf Coast's club team plays at that arena), and Charlotte averaged more than 5,000 fans a game.

What is a large metro area? Is 455,000 not a large metro area? Maybe not compared to New York City, but when media markets are broken down it is one of the top third or 40 percent of the country.

You're writing off something you really know nothing about and I know lots about. You think the floor of a new arena will be wet if they have a hockey rink there. That's not going to happen.

I agree with you that you need more rinks.

But what a potential money making opportunity with the demographics of the area if one were to invest in such a thing. It would be the hot new thing in the area!

If all ETSU plans to build is a 5,000 seat arena I`d rather stick with what we have, at least that way we`d have a place with some history to it. A 5,000 seat arena is the most short-sighted idea in the world.

You don't build a facility based on what needs you have, you build based on what you will have or plan to have.

(10-17-2009 10:23 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  What is a large metro area? Is 455,000 not a large metro area?

No, its not, especially since part of that area is too close to Knoxville.

(10-17-2009 10:23 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  You're writing off something you really know nothing about and I know lots about. You think the floor of a new arena will be wet if they have a hockey rink there. That's not going to happen.

You are absolutly correct, I know next to nothing about hockey, I grew up eating grits.

Pitt we've have this discussion before. If Johnson City is the worst sports city in America, how do you expect it to support hockey?

Well, Fan1, when you sarcastically respond to something that would deliver better facilities to ETSU basketball and more events and additional revenue with a curling comment, that tells you all you need to know about the area as a sports town.

Regardless- the reasons I believe something like this has the potential for success are as follows-

A- Reggie Dunlap to Dickie Dunn- Remember in Slap Shot when Reggie cons the sportswriter into believing the Chiefs are going to move to Florida and not fold because all of the retired people miss hockey? There's some merit to that here.

Colonial Downs exists in large part because of the transplants to the area. It is well marketed. It can be successful.

B- Marketing- Professional sports in the Tri-Cities (Appalachian League) fail for a lot of reasons, but the main reason is a lack of marketing. There's not even a PR guy for these teams. That wouldn't be the case with a legit pro hockey franchise operating for profit.

C- You have to understand the culture of the area. It is NOT the hip-hop culture that basketball embraces.

It is the country music culture that NASCAR embraces and, to a lesser extent, the rock culture that hockey embraces.

It is, at the risk of offending people, a very WHITE culture. We're what, 97 percent white in terms of local demographics?

Ask yourself why places like Pittsburgh and Buffalo have NHL teams and not NBA teams. I don't think you can dismiss that Western Pennsylvania is only eight percent black, even if that answer offends people (and I'm sorry if it does).

That answer also explains why Nashville had an NHL expansion team before Atlanta.

D- I am guessing people don't know the difference between the ECHL and CHL and the SPHL here. Let me explain- the ECHL and CHL are like a AA minor league hockey league and the SPHL is like A. Knoxville currently has A (SPHL) because their arena is so old.

Can you imagine the source of pride if Johnson City had an ECHL or CHL franchise while Knoxville struggled with A?

Now, I can also see it failing miserably, simply because of the local media's attitude towards the sport.

Here's some inside baseball. Couple of years ago a newspaper in Aiken, SC wanted to hire me. But what I didn't want to do was move to Aiken and cover high school basketball, which is essentially what they wanted me to do.

I studied the area, what was being covered and what wasn't, and found the ECHL team in Augusta, which is 20 miles from Aiken.

I did some research, found 300 amateur hockey players in the area. I found out the team- called the Augusta Lynx- was buying advertising in the Aiken paper.

Yet the newspaper didn't cover the Lynx.

I said I'd take the job if I got to cover the Lynx. They refused, and so I didn't go to Aiken.

No regrets. I'd have been absolutely miserable covering high school basketball.

And then, last year, the Lynx went out of business.

I wasn't surprised with the fact there was a growing hockey market with the aforementioned success of the Thrashers, the South Carolina Stingrays, and even the Columbia Inferno, yet the media ignored it. In the case of that Aiken newspaper- they lost revenue because of that decision.

That could happen here, no question.

But, then again, with so many of the media close to retirement age around here, if they understood they'd better keep a major advertiser happy or else their pay envelope will be lighter . . .

If we get an arena that supports hockey, we are definitely going to get a cookie cutter arena. Just like JU's downtown arena or the North Charleston Arena. Are there any new arenas that support hockey, basketball, and concerts that arent a cookie cutter type arena? I'm asking here because I really don't know.

Yes it's successful and working just fine. It's working so well that the Sanderson's (Who own Legend's, The Stage, Nashville Crossroads), the guys who own Tootsie's and Robert's all own a piece of the franchise. They are having issues related to the ecomony similar to everyone else trying to sell tickets. Did you see the Charlotte race Saturday night?
And no, it doesn't have to be cookie cutter at all. The Sommet Center isn't a cookie cutter arena by any stretch, neither is the RBC Center (home of the Carolina Hurricanes and NC State)

(10-16-2009 11:35 AM)Buc Island Wrote:  I don't know... are the Preds really working in Nashville? I lived there for a couple of years when Balsillie was trying to buy the team. I also think there was some issue with the Sommet lease because they couldn't average 15,000 a game, if I remember correctly. 106.7 shoved it down your throat everyday though that the Preds meant so much to Nashville and how the show of support was so overwhelming... I never really bought it. It's nice to go to a game there, but a successful franchise or Nashville as a hockey town? I'm not sold.

But Nashville has a lot more to do than the TRI, so could a minor league affiliate work in JC and make a new arena a more palatable idea? Stranger things have happened...

i just recently started coming on here and i wanted to make a couple of comments. i for one really do believe that the dome killed football and it will eventually do the same to basketball. i honestly do believe if football had been played somewhere besides the dome it would have drawn alot more fans. i also believe that absketball would do well in a true arena. why dont they consider playing at freedom hall? it would have a better basketball atmosphere. im sure the city would let them. i think we really need to push the non scholarship football issue. its doable and alot cheaper and we can build it to scholarship status. they dont necessarily need to build a stadium right off the bat til they get it up and running the dome would do just fine for the first 5 or so years. but basketball needs to get out of the dome asap!

Freedom Hall is even more of a dump than the Dome.

(12-17-2010 04:31 PM)jam423 Wrote:  i just recently started coming on here and i wanted to make a couple of comments. i for one really do believe that the dome killed football and it will eventually do the same to basketball. i honestly do believe if football had been played somewhere besides the dome it would have drawn alot more fans. i also believe that absketball would do well in a true arena. why dont they consider playing at freedom hall? it would have a better basketball atmosphere. im sure the city would let them. i think we really need to push the non scholarship football issue. its doable and alot cheaper and we can build it to scholarship status. they dont necessarily need to build a stadium right off the bat til they get it up and running the dome would do just fine for the first 5 or so years. but basketball needs to get out of the dome asap!

There were overtures made toward the city several years ago about the options of combining efforts to have basketball at Freedom Hall... if I'm remembering correctly the renovations alone were not going to be cost-effective in terms of getting the place up to D1 standards. I may be off on the direction of the overtures but I do know that it was looked at.. might have been more of a "pat on the head" look by ETSU to keep the relationship with the City Council civil... pretty sure it was some time during Paduch's reign on the Council...

the Doctor's will remember better than I...

i was not sure if was ever considered or even an option. i haven't been in freedom hall in 10 or so years and it was kinda nice then. i thought they did some work on freedom hall about 6 or 7 years ago or maybe it was just talked about?

I remember Freedom Hall was the location. North Carolina and Michael Jordan actually played ETSU in Freedom Hall. It wasn't pretty... This was before the dome.

We now live in an era where ETSU has trouble getting games...playing North Carolina at home...yeah, that was special.

Who knows the story how this game came to be?

(12-18-2010 04:23 AM)Mister Jennings Wrote:  I remember Freedom Hall was the location. North Carolina and Michael Jordan actually played ETSU in Freedom Hall. It wasn't pretty... This was before the dome.

I wasn't aware UNC played us when they had Jordan. I knew they came here once but I thought it was before that.

I remember being at the game in Freedom Hall. I remember seeing Phil Ford play buy not Michael.The coach was just before Sonny Smith had come. I think he was Leroy Fisher and the Bucs were pretty horrible under him. The reason that Dean Smith had come to JC was to help ETSU inaugurate the Mini-Dome and he had agreed to be a part of the festivities. Of course the Dome was delayed in being completed and the game was forced to Freedom Hall. Dean Smith did not seem bothered at all and played the game there and it was an easy one for the Tar Heels. Just my memory.

(12-18-2010 04:23 AM)Mister Jennings Wrote:  I remember Freedom Hall was the location. North Carolina and Michael Jordan actually played ETSU in Freedom Hall. It wasn't pretty... This was before the dome.

We now live in an era where ETSU has trouble getting games...playing North Carolina at home...yeah, that was special.

Who knows the story how this game came to be?

UNC and ETSU played in '73-'74, '74-'75 & '75-'76. The media guide doesn't say where the games were played but did they do 2 for 1's then? Jordan wasn't a freshman until '81-'82.

(12-18-2010 10:31 AM)bucfan81 Wrote:  I remember being at the game in Freedom Hall. I remember seeing Phil Ford play buy not Michael.The coach was just before Sonny Smith had come. I think he was Leroy Fisher and the Bucs were pretty horrible under him. The reason that Dean Smith had come to JC was to help ETSU inaugurate the Mini-Dome and he had agreed to be a part of the festivities. Of course the Dome was delayed in being completed and the game was forced to Freedom Hall. Dean Smith did not seem bothered at all and played the game there and it was an easy one for the Tar Heels. Just my memory.

Tarheels

December 20

1975--Kupchak, Ford, Davis Star at ETSU
JOHNSON CITY, Tenn.--Mitch Kupchak made 12 of 13 field goal attempts for 24 points as North Carolina crushed East Tennessee State, 104-67, at Freedom Hall.

Carolina shot 64.1 percent from the floor in rolling to its impressive victory.

In addition to Kupchak, Phil Ford and Walter Davis each hit nine of 11 shots, while Tommy LaGarde was six for 10. Ford finished with 19 points and 11 assists. Davis had 18 points, five rebounds and five assists, while LaGarde added 15 points and 10 rebounds.

Kupchak grabbed 11 rebounds as Carolina dominated the backboards, 50-33. Although John Kuester did not score a point, he had nine assists as the Tar Heels constantly worked the ball inside for easy shots or scored off fast break opportunities.

Carolina never trailed in the game after Ford nailed an 18-foot jumper in the first 20 seconds. The Buccaneers did manage three ties in the early moments. But, with the score 6-6, the Tar Heels scored 10 straight points in less than three minutes to begin pulling away. Davis hit three long jumpers in this stretch, Kupchak, scored on a tap-in and Ford had a layup.

Carolina built a 53-33 lead by halftime. Ford had 15 points in the first 20 minutes, Davis added 14 and Kupchak had 10.

Tar Heel Coach Dean Smith substituted freely throughout the second half as every Tar Heel player except Kuester scored.

That was a wonderful UNC team. They had everything. (Except Worthy, Perkins and Jordan - lol.) Always loved Ford's game. I remember that game moderately well. Not sure if it was a sell-out or not. If not it was very close. And note that that was before the 3-point line. It might have been 120-75 had that been in existence. No, that ETSU team left some things to be desired - defense being one of them. That was just before the good D.C. Smith, et al, teams.......

(10-15-2009 06:38 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  The PBR in a new arena owned by ETSU, that maybe was "close" to campus would be great. Of course fat Barbie Breedlove and the rest of the waterheads at ETSU would have to understand that alcohol would need to be sold at the arena to maximize profits.
As for Freedom Hall, that place is actually worse than the building with the same name in Louisville, it should be demolished immediately.
Pitt hit the nail on the head with the Knoxville Coliseum, it's a DUMP of a building. Roanoke didn't have that problem when they had hockey, and Nashville doesn't either.
As for the Curb Center, it's small, but what Belmont needs and is a heck of alot nicer than what we have. I do agree with the beef on concessions, though Allen Arena has worse. ETSU's concessions are nothing to brag about.
Next off, Pitt, the only reason the media in this market would get on hockey is because they don't understand the game, and are too old, outdated and lazy to try to learn and understand it. That being said high school basketball up there is HORRENDOUS. Little Johnny playing the 6'3 post who has an amazing layup at Unaka is brutal to watch.

you can't sell alcohol at college sporting events

(12-18-2010 01:54 PM)jam423 Wrote:  

(10-15-2009 06:38 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  The PBR in a new arena owned by ETSU, that maybe was "close" to campus would be great. Of course fat Barbie Breedlove and the rest of the waterheads at ETSU would have to understand that alcohol would need to be sold at the arena to maximize profits.
As for Freedom Hall, that place is actually worse than the building with the same name in Louisville, it should be demolished immediately.
Pitt hit the nail on the head with the Knoxville Coliseum, it's a DUMP of a building. Roanoke didn't have that problem when they had hockey, and Nashville doesn't either.
As for the Curb Center, it's small, but what Belmont needs and is a heck of alot nicer than what we have. I do agree with the beef on concessions, though Allen Arena has worse. ETSU's concessions are nothing to brag about.
Next off, Pitt, the only reason the media in this market would get on hockey is because they don't understand the game, and are too old, outdated and lazy to try to learn and understand it. That being said high school basketball up there is HORRENDOUS. Little Johnny playing the 6'3 post who has an amazing layup at Unaka is brutal to watch.

you can't sell alcohol at college sporting events

If I remember right, Syracuse sells at the Carrier Dome. But the NCAA may have just "encouraged" schools not to sell booze if they have been:

http://ccsap.wsu.edu/default.asp?PageID=3352