Given what we know about Hasan, how many more are possibly in the Military and what do we do about it?

Declare war on radical(Orthodox) Islam? Internment domestically? Stop all Immigration from Islamic Countries and clamp down on borders(knowing political consequences domestically)? Risk major oil shortages and trade blockades... causing Global Depression, paticularly when we can't tap into more of our own oil? What to do with CAIR........lots of questions here. My guess is we keep dancing around the obvious questions with rhetoric which makes many of us squirm("Religion of Peace"), etc., and pick and choose enemies that empower the Jihadist forces abroad(Taliban, Saddam, Iran...) while ignoring those forces that exist Domestically(certain Mosque, CAIR, and the ideology of Orthodox Islam itself).

Now, given the rampant Relativism in our humanist Culture the larger question is how and are we past the point of no return? How do you win if you can't call a Spade a Spade?

Seems to me they have us by the short hairs, ironically when we have lots of Material strength we have a major shortage of Immaterial Strength.

(11-09-2009 10:15 AM)GGniner Wrote:  Given what we know about Hasan, how many more are possibly in the Military and what do we do about it?

Declare war on radical(Orthodox) Islam? Internment domestically? Stop all Immigration from Islamic Countries and clamp down on borders(knowing political consequences domestically)? Risk major oil shortages and trade blockades... causing Global Depression, paticularly when we can't tap into more of our own oil? What to do with CAIR........lots of questions here. My guess is we keep dancing around the obvious questions with rhetoric which makes many of us squirm("Religion of Peace"), etc., and pick and choose enemies that empower the Jihadist forces abroad(Taliban, Saddam, Iran...) while ignoring those forces that exist Domestically(certain Mosque, CAIR, and the ideology of Orthodox Islam itself).

Now, given the rampant Relativism in our humanist Culture the larger question is how and are we past the point of no return? How do you win if you can't call a Spade a Spade?

Seems to me they have us by the short hairs, ironically when we have lots of Material strength we have a major shortage of Immaterial Strength.

All of this happens because of our (the lefties) desire to be liked rather than respected.

Real easy to screen people.

Part of your Security Clearance involves your religious beliefs. The Air Force investigated an enlisted man because he was a White Supremacist and attended the "church" set up by the Aryan Nation.

They threw his ass right out of the Air Force.

If you go to a church, temple, mosque, etc that preaches hate, you get tossed out of the military. Easy as that.

(11-09-2009 10:41 AM)WMD Owl Wrote:  Real easy to screen people.

Part of your Security Clearance involves your religious beliefs. The Air Force investigated an enlisted man because he was a White Supremacist and attended the "church" set up by the Aryan Nation.

They threw his ass right out of the Air Force.

If you go to a church, temple, mosque, etc that preaches hate, you get tossed out of the military. Easy as that.

Its Politically Correct to locate and remove Aryan Nation members. Not so much the "Religion of Peace" and other minority groups.

The larger problem is identifying the Orthodox Muslims from the less serious, non-Orthodox Muslims.

Either way, when we are basically at war with the teachings in both the Quran and Hadith, and the "Prophet" himself, letting members of that religion in our Armed Forces is risky, as is our Immigration policy.

Simple - outlaw religion. Shut down all places of worship. Problem solved.

(11-09-2009 11:28 AM)I45owl Wrote:  Simple - outlaw religion. Shut down all places of worship. Problem solved.

interesting idea given today's anniversary

This murdering SOB frequented nudie bars. Was he Orthodox or not? I say watch 'em all.

(11-09-2009 11:33 AM)Paul M Wrote:  This murdering SOB frequented nudie bars. Was he Orthodox or not? I say watch 'em all.

He was, we are talking about a cult religion here. Not one that borrows bits and pieces of its worldview from Christianity, but the real deal inversion of it. Much like Communism/Fascism in Eastern Europe, same thing different face. The Focus of Evil

(11-09-2009 11:29 AM)GGniner Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 11:28 AM)I45owl Wrote:  Simple - outlaw religion. Shut down all places of worship. Problem solved.

interesting idea given today's anniversary

Spoken by someone who probably remembers where he was when Father Coughlin died (or would have, had you been alive).

But, go ahead, tell us what principles you would readily abandon now that you've started down this path...

(11-09-2009 11:33 AM)Paul M Wrote:  This murdering SOB frequented nudie bars. Was he Orthodox or not? I say watch 'em all.

I'm not sure that Orthodoxy has much meaning when talking about Islam - certainly not the same meaning it does with Judaism or Christianity. I am less and less confident that "moderate Islam" is anything but a Western fantasy.

any Muslim can read Surahs 9:5, 9:29, and 9:111 plus the Sahih Bukhari and come to the same conclusions Muhammad did:

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/...2.sbt.html

Quote:Volume 4, Book 52, Number 50:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

The Prophet said, “A single endeavor (of fighting) in Allah’s Cause in the forenoon or in the afternoon is better than the world and whatever is in it.”

Muhammad did such things and advocated the same for his followers. Muhammad is the Muslim par excellence. He wasn’t some peaceful guy like Jesus.

Followers of the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world are not, by definition, going to act like followers of a guy who claimed that “paradise is found under the shade of swords.” At least, if they do, they’re doing it in spite of what they’re taught. Muslims are simply characterized by violence against unbelievers because that is how their religion has spread for over 1000 years.

(11-09-2009 11:46 AM)I45owl Wrote:  Spoken by someone who probably remembers where he was when Father Coughlin died (or would have, had you been alive).

given I'm not Catholic(in the modern sense) nor do I worship Humans, I could careless about Father Coughlin. Personally I think he was a joke but then I'm reformed and would.

Quote:But, go ahead, tell us what principles you would readily abandon now that you've started down this path...

Securing Liberty given real world realities isn't abandoning any princples.

I'm asking "What do we do" given the realities of the world. 24 thwarted organized plots since 9/11(thank God), but several Sudden Loan Jihad attacks have been committed domestically since 9/11 and no doubt many more will. What if anything do we do to stop it?

Or do we stick with Status Quo and hope nothing too bad happens the next time we get hit?

(11-09-2009 11:28 AM)I45owl Wrote:  Simple - outlaw religion. Shut down all places of worship. Problem solved.

Yep...that works. Take away Liberties of all because of the Islamic murderers.

(11-09-2009 12:00 PM)GGniner Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 11:46 AM)I45owl Wrote:  Spoken by someone who probably remembers where he was when Father Coughlin died (or would have, had you been alive).

given I'm not Catholic(in the modern sense) nor do I worship Humans, I could careless about Father Coughlin. Personally I think he was a joke but then I'm reformed and would.

And yet, your message is eerily similar. Caughlin's message was popular probably in spite of the fact that he was Catholic.

(11-09-2009 12:00 PM)GGniner Wrote:  

Quote:But, go ahead, tell us what principles you would readily abandon now that you've started down this path...

Securing Liberty given real world realities isn't abandoning any princples.

I'm asking "What do we do" given the realities of the world. 24 thwarted organized plots since 9/11(thank God), but several Sudden Loan Jihad attacks have been committed domestically since 9/11 and no doubt many more will. What if anything do we do to stop it?

Or do we stick with Status Quo and hope nothing too bad happens the next time we get hit?

How do you think declaring "war on <insert-meaningless-adjective> Islam" could possibly be productive? Whatever adjective you use there, over a Billion Muslims will disregard it and look at it (rightly) as an attack on their faith.

At a minimum, visa restrictions on nations with large Muslim populations and/or a history of Islamism, increased law enforcement, and a scorched-earth policy on any new military ventures are probably prudent. Impartiality towards secular concerns of Muslim nations (i.e. Bush's initiatives toward Turkey and its pursuit EU membership) should probably be continued.

As far as the "war on terror" and its supposed misnomer, we should not lose sight of one of its central goals, which is to diminish the use of terrorist groups as foreign policy proxies for the likes of Iran and Syria.

You can't really differentiate between radical and everyday muslims. If you kick them out you will be putting some honest people out of a job and out of the country.

(11-09-2009 11:33 AM)Paul M Wrote:  This murdering SOB frequented nudie bars. Was he Orthodox or not? I say watch 'em all.

I volunteer to surveil nudie bars for religious fanatics.

(11-09-2009 01:35 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 11:33 AM)Paul M Wrote:  This murdering SOB frequented nudie bars. Was he Orthodox or not? I say watch 'em all.

I volunteer to surveil nudie bars for religious fanatics.

Yeah, you keep your eyes out for dudes with turbans. I'll interview the chicks.

(11-09-2009 01:27 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  You can't really differentiate between radical and everyday muslims. If you kick them out you will be putting some honest people out of a job and out of the country.

In WW2 you could have a hard time distinguishing between Nazi's and regular Germans.

Look as Islamist praise the Fort Hood Shooting on the streets of NYC



Now ask yourself if Nazi's would've been able to hand out copies of Mein Kampf in the United States during WW2, freely, under the guise of "free speech"?


Near Fort Hood, Muslims praise the shootings



Killean Islamist: "I have no pity"

(11-09-2009 03:47 PM)GGniner Wrote:  Now ask yourself if Nazi's would've been able to hand out copies of Mein Kampf in the United States during WW2, freely, under the guise of "free speech"?

They didn't have to. They had Father Caughlin and Henry Ford to do their bidding - at least until later in the war.

But, yeah, these folks should be held to account...

(11-09-2009 01:26 PM)I45owl Wrote:  How do you think declaring "war on <insert-meaningless-adjective> Islam" could possibly be productive? Whatever adjective you use there, over a Billion Muslims will disregard it and look at it (rightly) as an attack on their faith.

Not saying necessarily we should, but rather asking. its a legitimate question given what is clearly the foundation of the religion and teachings such as at the Mosque he attended which is the same as some of 9/11 hijackers.

Basically what we are politically incorrectly stating or possibly advocating is the expulsion of all Muslims from the United States to be warranted based on shari'ah being a treasonous political doctrine that calls for the deprivation of Constitutional rights of infidels(us). Which is self-evident. Sharia is not compatible with Liberty.

Quote:At a minimum, visa restrictions on nations with large Muslim populations and/or a history of Islamism, increased law enforcement, and a scorched-earth policy on any new military ventures are probably prudent. Impartiality towards secular concerns of Muslim nations (i.e. Bush's initiatives toward Turkey and its pursuit EU membership) should probably be continued.

agree, with qualifications on 'secular muslim nations' part..

Quote:As far as the "war on terror" and its supposed misnomer, we should not lose sight of one of its central goals, which is to diminish the use of terrorist groups as foreign policy proxies for the likes of Iran and Syria.

agree, not personally advocating for Fortress America of course. What I would prefer is a more honest discussion on what/who the enemy is and how it will not be tolerated Domestically and why it won't.


Again, if this was WW2 and you had Nazi's living amongst us(Cheearing on the Nazi's in Europe) do you think it would've been tolerated out of a false understanding of "Free Speech" and "Multi-Culturalism"(i.e. Cultural Relativism)?

One big difference obviously, is that you could have German Nationals who hated Nazism and supported US. With Muslims you have to assume the supposed secular, pro-American Muslims never actually read all of the Qu'ran and hadith, the clear teachings of Muhammed, etc.

(11-09-2009 04:05 PM)GGniner Wrote:  Basically what we are politically incorrectly stating or possibly advocating is the expulsion of all Muslims from the United States to be warranted based on shari'ah being a treasonous political doctrine that calls for the deprivation of Constitutional rights of infidels(us). Which is self-evident. Sharia is not compatible with Liberty.

I don't think any of this is possible to codify, especially given you'd have to have people declare whether they want Sharia or not, and they are already instructed to lie in such situations.

(11-09-2009 04:05 PM)GGniner Wrote:  qualifications on 'secular muslim nations' part..

That is not at all what I said. I referred to secular concerns of muslim nations - trade, security, international law, and the like. The example was not Turkey - it was Turkey's desire to be an EU member, which President Bush lobbied for, even though it was an Islamist government that has since moved even more towards Islamism.