http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/03/sec...t-tre.html

Say hello to internet fascism... covered up by Obama in his best "Bush covering up the NSA spying on all traffic in AT&T's San Francisco datacenter" impression.

Disgusts me.

I cannot believe it. We have been sold out. Like China or any other country will agree to this.

Senate still has to ratify it, and Congress has to enact "enabling legislation" and I doubt that will happen.

I'm stealing broadband service so I wonder how they'll catch me? Being in the business I can think of a few ways, but they're time consuming and probably not worth it.

Anyway, this is something you'd think the left would be screaming out against it, not endorsing.

all Trademark owners want something done, internationally(because of Internet), with Intellectual Property. The Internet has opened all sorts of doors to anyone.

There are tons of sites like these:

http://dhgate.com
http://alibaba.com
http://ec21.com

that hooks buyers up with suppliers, technically anywhere, what they are dominated with are Counterfeit goods from China. Its alot harder to sell trademark goods on ebay now thinks to this, and the companies figuring out what is going on.......anyway its a huge problem for businesses now, and there is no real enforcement.

anyway, its a mess. Its not hard to look at what is happening thanks to Internet and modern technology and see how its leading to some sort of global governance.


You can imagine the type of pressure they have coming from Business

(11-04-2009 10:20 PM)GGniner Wrote:  all Trademark owners want something done, internationally(because of Internet), with Intellectual Property. The Internet has opened all sorts of doors to anyone.

There are tons of sites like these:

http://dhgate.com
http://alibaba.com
http://ec21.com

that hooks buyers up with suppliers, technically anywhere, what they are dominated with are Counterfeit goods from China. Its alot harder to sell trademark goods on ebay now thinks to this, and the companies figuring out what is going on.......anyway its a huge problem for businesses now, and there is no real enforcement.

anyway, its a mess. Its not hard to look at what is happening thanks to Internet and modern technology and see how its leading to some sort of global governance.


You can imagine the type of pressure they have coming from Business

Jesus tapdancing Christ. How in the holy fuckballs can somebody who calls themself a Republican NOT appreciate what the ULTIMATE FREE MARKET, aka the internet, has done for the world. The good outweighs the bad like the Milky Way outweighs the void in your skull.

If you want to regulate everything instead of pursuing and acting upon a minority of abusers -- go ahead and call yourself what you've been all along on civil liberties, deficits, and foreign policy: A BIG GOVERNMENT DEMOCRAT. You have more in common with Obama than you do with "Mr. Conservative" Barry Goldwater or "Mr. Republican" Robert Taft.

Just pointing out the realities of whats going on, this is something I know a few things about after paying an IP Laywer $200/hr in fees. Its unreal what all is going on out there.

If you can make a case that Intellectual Property is bogus, and you aren't really stealing from the owners then go ahead and make the case. Now is the time because this stuff is happening. Its not because of "Obama" or whoever, so much as the people/companies getting them elected this effects.

In the spirit of Football Season

Buy your Brett Favre Authentic Vikings Jersey here:

http://www.dhgate.com/nfl-jerseys-authen...c6c98.html



Those are nicer than what you'll buy in a store, unless you buy the $250 real Authentic jersey, above is Counterfeit version violating Reebok, NFL and Brett Favre Trademarks. As far as Reebok/Adiddas is concerned the above is stealing from them and NFL

oh, and a small order like that will make it through Customs easily....they have this figured out too.


You can buy the above and make a bunch of money, ebay use to be flooded with things like that. Now very little gets to be sold, most of the sellers are there for a quick hit before getting removed(and potentially bullied by some lawyers).


Check out the Software for sell(DO NOT BUY TO RESELL THOUGH, very dangerous).

You'll also see any name brand Golf Equipment available from China, all counterfeit.

Check out what happened to these guys outside Raleigh who were selling alot of stuff on Internet and Ebay:

http://www.titleist.com/news/newsdetail....s_releases


the NYC street vendor/countfeiter is online and global now.

(11-04-2009 11:08 PM)GGniner Wrote:  You'll also see any name brand Golf Equipment available from China, all counterfeit.

Check out what happened to these guys outside Raleigh who were selling alot of stuff on Internet and Ebay:

http://www.titleist.com/news/newsdetail....s_releases


the NYC street vendor/countfeiter is online and global now.

You want to legislate stupidity? Pass laws to protect people from themselves?

(11-04-2009 11:16 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(11-04-2009 11:08 PM)GGniner Wrote:  You'll also see any name brand Golf Equipment available from China, all counterfeit.

Check out what happened to these guys outside Raleigh who were selling alot of stuff on Internet and Ebay:

http://www.titleist.com/news/newsdetail....s_releases


the NYC street vendor/countfeiter is online and global now.

You want to legislate stupidity? Pass laws to protect people from themselves?

I was going to go somewhere, but to be nice and keep you from putting me on ignore, I will refrain for now. :)

(11-04-2009 11:16 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(11-04-2009 11:08 PM)GGniner Wrote:  You'll also see any name brand Golf Equipment available from China, all counterfeit.

Check out what happened to these guys outside Raleigh who were selling alot of stuff on Internet and Ebay:

http://www.titleist.com/news/newsdetail....s_releases


the NYC street vendor/countfeiter is online and global now.

You want to legislate stupidity? Pass laws to protect people from themselves?

I'm saying these companies are putting big pressure via Lobbyiest to stop this stuff from happening, with little leverage on the China end. I'm pretty confident that at alot of dept stores even there are identical black/grey market name brand goods even being sold. Gillette Razor blades for example, are a big thing. About the only way they can prove they are fakes is to find out which port of entry they came into.

There are alot of people innocently getting in trouble out there. The smaller scale, more innoncent side of it, is people looking for products online to sell and finding sites like the above. Then seeing Name brand products, they look real and they are told they are by the sellers in China, so buying in bulk then selling them here(Online, flea markets, wherever) and eventually getting busted.

My college age family member for example, recently bought DVD sets and Software from sellers in China for his summer job since couldn't find a regular job w/Economy, Chinese supplier telling him they were real. Nearly got in a butt load of trouble with Adobe. They are selling copies of Adobe Photoshop for $10/each from China, can sell for $200 plus on ebay. What the Chinese sellers are doing is somehow getting GroupID Passwords like a University would get and using them with what they are selling. He got a good lawyer and got a little lucky and it ended up just costing him $1000 plus inventory to get out of it(alot for a college kid).


Anyway, point is the Internet isn't going to remain the Wild West. There is alot of pressure coming from IP Owners(major companies) to put stops to alot of the stuff going on.

Incidently, the one area there is little mercy for anyone on is Downloading Music/Movies. Last thing you want to get caught doing. There is a Harvard Law Student about to go to Prison for awhile and owing $5 Million in fees because he listened to his idiot Professor and tried to fight it.

There is a legit National Security side to what I'm talking about above too, Al-Qaeda is doing alot of what I mention above to raise funds.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk...432410.ece
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120930,00.html

the world is the mess, and the Internet is opening all sorts of doors for all sorts of things. This is one reason why the liberalization of the world and defeating the Jihadist isn't negotiable subject.


few years ago I was buying some very nice Panther Jerseys' off ebay for $40 bucks roughly(on par with the $250 version in store). Anyway, bought like 10 from this seller in Dearborn, Michigan who was muslim(to resell to people I knew who would gladly pay $100). His emails were interesting, anyway after reading the above and knowing what Dearborn is a hotbed of, I've often wondered about that transaction.

(11-05-2009 09:26 AM)GGniner Wrote:  My college age family member for example, recently bought DVD sets and Software from sellers in China for his summer job since couldn't find a regular job w/Economy, Chinese supplier telling him they were real. Nearly got in a butt load of trouble with Adobe. They are selling copies of Adobe Photoshop for $10/each from China, can sell for $200 plus on ebay. What the Chinese sellers are doing is somehow getting GroupID Passwords like a University would get and using them with what they are selling. He got a good lawyer and got a little lucky and it ended up just costing him $1000 plus inventory to get out of it(alot for a college kid).

Your college age family member is an idiot. Honestly... did he really think that Adobe resellers make 2000% profit when selling adobe software?

He tried to take advantage of the cheap software and resell it, thinking he'd never get caught. Maybe he'll find his common sense somewhere...

(11-05-2009 09:46 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(11-05-2009 09:26 AM)GGniner Wrote:  My college age family member for example, recently bought DVD sets and Software from sellers in China for his summer job since couldn't find a regular job w/Economy, Chinese supplier telling him they were real. Nearly got in a butt load of trouble with Adobe. They are selling copies of Adobe Photoshop for $10/each from China, can sell for $200 plus on ebay. What the Chinese sellers are doing is somehow getting GroupID Passwords like a University would get and using them with what they are selling. He got a good lawyer and got a little lucky and it ended up just costing him $1000 plus inventory to get out of it(alot for a college kid).

Your college age family member is an idiot. Honestly... did he really think that Adobe resellers make 2000% profit when selling adobe software?

He tried to take advantage of the cheap software and resell it, thinking he'd never get caught. Maybe he'll find his common sense somewhere...

He was college age and told all sorts of stories from sellers about how legit they were. And they were real copies, the chinese had just figured out how to get them to work till adobe shut down their license#. There are some impressive outfits out there based in china, see the Amazon looking DHgate above.

I'd venture a guess about anyone on here, especially if you've ever bought something online, owns some counterfeit goods whether you know it or not. Lobbiest for these Companies know this and are putting huge pressure for something to be done, I have little doubt the Dems will go too far with it though. but its not la la land out there either.

(11-05-2009 09:46 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(11-05-2009 09:26 AM)GGniner Wrote:  My college age family member for example, recently bought DVD sets and Software from sellers in China for his summer job since couldn't find a regular job w/Economy, Chinese supplier telling him they were real. Nearly got in a butt load of trouble with Adobe. They are selling copies of Adobe Photoshop for $10/each from China, can sell for $200 plus on ebay. What the Chinese sellers are doing is somehow getting GroupID Passwords like a University would get and using them with what they are selling. He got a good lawyer and got a little lucky and it ended up just costing him $1000 plus inventory to get out of it(alot for a college kid).

Your college age family member is an idiot. Honestly... did he really think that Adobe resellers make 2000% profit when selling adobe software?

He tried to take advantage of the cheap software and resell it, thinking he'd never get caught. Maybe he'll find his common sense somewhere...

Puh-lease. Coming from you that cracks me up.

GGniner, I have no doubt that these concerns are legit and serious. Even national security serious.

But this law is NOT the answer.

The wild west analogy is completely off, b/c in the wild west, you could defend yourself. That isn't true these days. The gov't has insisted that they will handle all justice and legal enforcement thru their (archaic) structures. That doesn't work, and they don't care.

Or they put forth little effort to protect the legitimate business. Your links prove just how easy it is to find illegal knock-offs. Wouldn't take much enforcement at all to track these people down. BUt it doesn't happen.

In short, the gov't refuses to enforce laws that already exist. They've let the situation get worse. Becuase it provides the excuse that they NEED new laws to handle the situation. They tie hands of the victim, and then claim the power they've usurped isn't enough.

What they're after is more power...not justice, not the success of their citizens.

Quite frankly I think they like picking on college kids or housewives, with their spotty, capricious enforcement, b/c they can't fight back, and it's more power over more citizens. They've made people criminals, and they can control them better, w/ heavy-handed enforcement, or thru guilt.

(11-05-2009 10:28 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  Or they put forth little effort to protect the legitimate business. Your links prove just how easy it is to find illegal knock-offs. Wouldn't take much enforcement at all to track these people down. BUt it doesn't happen.

In short, the gov't refuses to enforce laws that already exist. They've let the situation get worse. Becuase it provides the excuse that they NEED new laws to handle the situation. They tie hands of the victim, and then claim the power they've usurped isn't enough.

How does the US Government stop Chinese Counterfeiters? Everynow and then the Chinese will do a PR stunt and take down a group over there(and torture or kill them in prison). The sellers on sites are all sitting in China, many have contacts in San Fransico and elsewhere. They will talk to you via Instant Messenger and show you products of theirs in China via Webcams(pretty amazing if you think about it). They take on American sounding names, send Christmas Cards to customers and will make a courtesy call every few months. Its amazing the operations they are running over there, through interent.


Incidently, the San Fran Customs Port is strictist in country, JFK is second. These chinese counterfeiters have figured out how to get the goods routed to the Chicago Port where Customs isn't as well funded for finding these packages(many of which are small now) and besides that with the small package volume its virtually impossible for them to stop anyway.

but yeah, you can't defend yourself, there isn't an Online Sherrif either. Alot of people are gettind defrauded internationally over the Internet, Nigeria is the obvious example but it happens all over the place. When it happens to you, not a thing you can do about it since the Perp is in a different country.

This stuff going on is why I say you can see how some form of International governance is going to emerge, lead by commerce.

(11-05-2009 10:28 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  Puh-lease. Coming from you that cracks me up.

Why is that? I know what the real pricing for these goods are. I know that there is not a 2000% markup by the resellers of any product. Buying it for your own use is 1 thing (still illegal, but I can see someone doing that who is cash strapped), but buying it to resell it at $200 a copy is just dumb. If you can't figure out that it is not legitimate based on the pricing then you are clueless.

(11-05-2009 10:54 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(11-05-2009 10:28 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  Puh-lease. Coming from you that cracks me up.

Why is that? I know what the real pricing for these goods are. I know that there is not a 2000% markup by the resellers of any product. Buying it for your own use is 1 thing (still illegal, but I can see someone doing that who is cash strapped), but buying it to resell it at $200 a copy is just dumb. If you can't figure out that it is not legitimate based on the pricing then you are clueless.

they think they are getting it from the source, not the distribution chains, and 'real deal'. everyone doesn't know markups for every product either. People will do it when they see others doing it online.

(11-05-2009 10:42 AM)GGniner Wrote:  How does the US Government stop Chinese Counterfeiters? E

The US Federal Reserve is the biggest counterfeiters in the world. China is a hot dog stand by comparison.