Dogfan the only positive of the move is I would never have to consider donating another dollar to this university.

I am and will continue to be excited about playing in Soldier field like most sane people. I just am completely baffled by those who don't appreciate what a great opportunity it is for our school to play there.

If we go FCS, the number of football scholarships we can offer will drop from 85 to 65. Then we can lower the number of women's scholarships. BCS football costs a lot and if our revenues are only $17-18 million, it is hard to sustain.

(06-17-2009 07:50 AM)klake87 Wrote:  Contraction, in the end will not be good for the BCS schools. They need the doormats like NIU to become bowl eligible. If you are Illinois or Northwestern, do you want a full Big 10 Schedule then also have to schedule at least three of your games against other BCS teams. Illinois could start off the season with Florida, Texas and USC then go to the big ten schedule. No chance that they would get to the magical 6 wins without playing MAC like teams. The number of bowls would decrease drastically and the lower end BCS schools would feel the pinch.

You mean like last year when they scheduled Western Michigan? Oh, wait. They lost to WMU.......

I know what you are saying though. In most years Illinois and other BCS teams are going to beat a MAC opponent and they want to have them available to schedule against. I just wanted to get a 'stir' in above......

If we drop to FCS, it would be sad, but it is a reality we must face in the near future. If it happens, so be it. It won't bother me all that much, and I will continue to support the team. I think that in the back of my mind, I never really felt that NIU and our MAC brethren - as well as all the similar small conferences - belonged in FBS anyway. Although the bowl opportunities will go down the toilet, we will be involved in a nice playoff system.

If the current FCS remains the same, I see us paired in some sort of conference alignment with WIU, SIU, and ISU if the MAC gets broken up. This could be interesting. However, in my mind, it would make more sense for the FCS to have two levels: one for the current small conference FBS teams that would move down to FCS (sort of like a purgatory between heaven and hell), and another level for current FCS teams. This could work, and I am open to it. Maybe NIU could even aspire to be near the top in the new division. Maybe if we move down, we could now get some of those studs who leave the FBS for the FCS.

There would be a loss of ticket, sponsor, and donor revenue. Plus, I don't see our games on a major radio outlet, but maybe we can work out some sort of media network deal (assuming we have the money with declining revenues). But, hey, the FCS teams seem to survive and survive well. If it happens, we'll just have to learn to live with it.

(06-17-2009 09:08 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  If we drop to FCS, it would be sad, but it is a reality we must face in the near future. If it happens, so be it. It won't bother me all that much, and I will continue to support the team. I think that in the back of my mind, I never really felt that NIU and our MAC brethren - as well as all the similar small conferences - belonged in FBS anyway. Although the bowl opportunities will go down the toilet, we will be involved in a nice playoff system.

If the current FCS remains the same, I see us paired in some sort of conference alignment with WIU, SIU, and ISU if the MAC gets broken up. This could be interesting. However, in my mind, it would make more sense for the FCS to have two levels: one for the current small conference FBS teams that would move down to FCS (sort of like a purgatory between heaven and hell), and another level for current FCS teams. This could work, and I am open to it. Maybe NIU could even aspire to be near the top in the new division. Maybe if we move down, we could now get some of those studs who leave the FBS for the FCS.

There would be a loss of ticket, sponsor, and donor revenue. Plus, I don't see our games on a major radio outlet, but maybe we can work out some sort of media network deal (assuming we have the money with declining revenues). But, hey, the FCS teams seem to survive and survive well. If it happens, we'll just have to learn to live with it.

Those losses alone would make it moot to move down to 1-AA. 1-AA football is also a money-loser just like 1-A but losing money in ticket sales, sponsorship, donor revenue, TV revenue, BCS revenue, etc. make 1-AA football just as much of a money-loser as 1-A football.

Look at football revenues at NIU compared to ISU and SIU:

NIU Football - $5,351,447
Ill. State Football - $1,269,077
So. Illinois Football - $1,449,395

Now look at football expenses at NIU compared to ISU and SIU:

NIU Football - $5,280,045
Ill. State Football - $2,202,038
So. Illinois Football - $3,212,602

Source: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics

(06-17-2009 09:26 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(06-17-2009 09:08 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  If we drop to FCS, it would be sad, but it is a reality we must face in the near future. If it happens, so be it. It won't bother me all that much, and I will continue to support the team. I think that in the back of my mind, I never really felt that NIU and our MAC brethren - as well as all the similar small conferences - belonged in FBS anyway. Although the bowl opportunities will go down the toilet, we will be involved in a nice playoff system.

If the current FCS remains the same, I see us paired in some sort of conference alignment with WIU, SIU, and ISU if the MAC gets broken up. This could be interesting. However, in my mind, it would make more sense for the FCS to have two levels: one for the current small conference FBS teams that would move down to FCS (sort of like a purgatory between heaven and hell), and another level for current FCS teams. This could work, and I am open to it. Maybe NIU could even aspire to be near the top in the new division. Maybe if we move down, we could now get some of those studs who leave the FBS for the FCS.

There would be a loss of ticket, sponsor, and donor revenue. Plus, I don't see our games on a major radio outlet, but maybe we can work out some sort of media network deal (assuming we have the money with declining revenues). But, hey, the FCS teams seem to survive and survive well. If it happens, we'll just have to learn to live with it.

Those losses alone would make it moot to move down to 1-AA. 1-AA football is also a money-loser just like 1-A but losing money in ticket sales, sponsorship, donor revenue, TV revenue, BCS revenue, etc. make 1-AA football just as much of a money-loser as 1-A football.

Look at football revenues at NIU compared to ISU and SIU:

NIU Football - $5,351,447
Ill. State Football - $1,269,077
So. Illinois Football - $1,449,395

Now look at football expenses at NIU compared to ISU and SIU:

NIU Football - $1,136,956
Ill. State Football - $374,986
So. Illinois Football - $680,135

Source: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics

Yet, look at our football revenue/expenses compared with the bigger FBS schools. This just supports my idea that if MAC and similar conferences move down to FCS, there will need to be at least two levels. Or, as an alternative, a small schools division of FBS may work just as well.

I wish someone would start a sports station to compete with ESPN. The second tier could get them started with football and basketball programing. ESPN started off small and has grown into a power.

Then schools like NIU would not need to wait for the scraps from the Big Boys.

(06-17-2009 10:01 AM)klake87 Wrote:  I wish someone would start a sports station to compete with ESPN. The second tier could get them started with football and basketball programing. ESPN started off small and has grown into a power.

Then schools like NIU would not need to wait for the scraps from the Big Boys.

I would be happy to sell them my low-power, low-budget, low-viewership DFCN (Dog Fan Cable Network). Right now, interest in my "Dog Fan All the Time" 24/7 programming seems to be diminishing for some strange reason. I just can't understand it. I show all the sexy, racy programming on me in the late evening after the kids go to bed, but I am still losing sponsorship and viewership. Must be the damn economy!

There seems to be a view that the financial success of BCS schools is somehow bad for NIU when in fact it has no impact whatsoever. It doesn't matter to NIU if Ohio State's football budget is $100 million or $1 trillion. We don't compete with BCS schools, it's not like they're going to come and put us out of business. NIU needs to focus on keeping its own financial house in order and everything will be fine. And the opportunities for the NIU football program to generate revenue have never been greater.

Since so many on this board are fretting about a drop to FCS let's follow that logic. Worst case scenario is that some MAC schools decide to drop to FCS, which they would be crazy to do in my opinion. NIU would be an unbelievably attractive target for Conference USA. You think they wouldn't want a presence in the Chicago market? There could be a north division of C-USA that includes the FBS remnants of the MAC plus some others. Or an entirely new conference could spring up with the former MAC members and some others, maybe including some FCS teams in Illinois who would like to make the leap to FBS. I see numerous possibilities where this works out well for NIU.

This stuff makes me chuckle sometimes...

The MAC isn't going FCS. That's just silly.

The forces are growing to indicate that most mid-majors will be dropped down to FCS within a few years. The economic reality is such that most mid-majors can't conscioiusly continue to compete. Also, the BCS conferences in my opinion would like to consolidate their power further and will be pushing hard to see a meaningful reduction in the number of Division I football programs.

Survivors? Schools like Utah, Boise State and Central Florida who arent' bashful about their very serious financial commitment to football.

Five years? I'll say we are down to 75 tops Division I programs. And that every current MAC team is playing at the FCS level.

(06-17-2009 11:32 AM)Nigel Incubator-Jones Wrote:  The forces are growing to indicate that most mid-majors will be dropped down to FCS within a few years. The economic reality is such that most mid-majors can't conscioiusly continue to compete. Also, the BCS conferences in my opinion would like to consolidate their power further and will be pushing hard to see a meaningful reduction in the number of Division I football programs.

Survivors? Schools like Utah, Boise State and Central Florida who arent' bashful about their very serious financial commitment to football.

Five years? I'll say we are down to 75 tops Division I programs. And that every current MAC team is playing at the FCS level.

If, as you opine, most mid-majors would drop to FCS (and I don't disagree), this would not bother me at all. We would be with similar schools that are in the same financial position and with schools that do not want to be slaves to the BCS stranglehold and ESPN, and continually playing the big boys in their stadiums to make enough money to survive. Either we move to FCS or become a small-school division in the FBS, neither would upset me. If we can divest ourselves from the MAC as it exists now, I would be a happy camper. IMO, either scenario would make us stronger. If either happens, it would take a massive sell job by Athletics to keep the ticket and donor revenue coming in.

Toledo is renovating and expanding its Larimer Building.Combine that with
the Fetterman Training Center(IPF),the new turf(last season),future Glass Bowl upgrades and the establishment of a two state Rocket radio network -UT is one of those schools that is committed to moving ahead.

The only way we should support a fall to FCS would be in concert with a complete and total shakeup of conferences. No way I would support a drop to FCS to play in a conference of rejects from FBS and a couple homeless FCS programs. It would be Big West all over again.

I might grudgingly support a conference of some combination of all the directional Illinois schools + Illinois State, filled out with like minded state schools from the states bordering Illinois, perhaps Indiana State, Bowling Green and Northern Iowa.

NIU
EIU
SIU
WIU
ILSU
INSU
BSU
UNI

However my feeling is that NIU itself is a very attractive school to remain FBS. A LOT of things would have to go VERY wrong for NIU to drop to FCS. I don't 1/3 of those problems coming to future fruition.

I'm not buying this. If anything, I think the trend is going the other way. If the current rules were in place in 2003, NIU would have gotten a bowl bid over one of the 6-6 teams that beat us out. Also, it wasn't that long ago that a MAC team had to win the conference in order to guarantee a bowl. Now you don't even have to win your division.

The success of Utah and Boise in the BCS bowls also helps tremendously. The NCAA sees how successful the basketball tournament has been because of the presence of "Cinderellas". It is moving toward having more Cinderellas in football. It is now easier for a mid-major to get a BCS bowl than it was just a couple years ago. We came very close to having 2 this year.

Is the deck still stacked against the non-BCS schools of 1A(FBS)? Yes. But it seems to be getting less so.

While there are some programs that I could see moving down...EMU being one, I feel that many of the MAC programs, in both football and basketball have made a commitment to move forward, not backward. Toledo, NIU, BGSU, CMU, WMU, and Miami have invested a lot of money into their programs and I don't see any possibility of them moving to FCS. We go from some people feeling we should try to get into the Big Ten to others supporting a move to the Gateway Conference.

i don't think we will see the MAC moving down to FCS as a whole.. unless maybe one or two decide to drop down on their own accord

(06-17-2009 01:25 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  While there are some programs that I could see moving down...EMU being one, I feel that many of the MAC programs, in both football and basketball have made a commitment to move forward, not backward. Toledo, NIU, BGSU, CMU, WMU, and Miami have invested a lot of money into their programs and I don't see any possibility of them moving to FCS. We go from some people feeling we should try to get into the Big Ten to others supporting a move to the Gateway Conference.

No one in their right mind would want to see us move to the FCS just for kicks. It is an economic reality these days that many schools are having trouble financially. NIU appears to be one of those schools. Many, if not most, MAC schools are having trouble even coming close to filling their stadiums. Interest in MAC football seems to have waned. With the exception of Toledo, many schools seem to be having trouble getting donor and/or sponsorship revenue. I would rather see the move to FCS or a re-alignment of FBS than for us to bleed fianancially and need to take in money by playing more and more OOC games with the big boys in their stadiums (and getting shellacked) and turning more and more of our home games into away games in SF - in addition to our annual November mid-week night games. Maybe with some kind of re-alignment, we'd actually have a chance to win a conference championship. If it happens, it happens - and I won't lose much sleep over it.

My first thought was to attack NIJ because for the most part he/she looks to know but really does not know much of anything. However, look at the other side of the argument. Going to FCS might not be bad at all, in fact it could prove to be better in the long run both money wise and recognition wise. Why?

1) You would have few teams left at the BCS level. We all know that you will have the same teams time and time again playing for the championship. Like limited supply and choice it has a limited life. Sooner rather than later people will get tired of seeing Oklahoma, Ohio State, USC and Florida playing in the championship game over and over.

2) Alot of teams would be classified as FCS and some good teams at that. The competition will be better and more pure than the prima donna's of the BCS. You could have a cinderella story almost every year.

3) You can not create a playoff and a good size one at that. If you find a great brain to market it, it could be bigger and draw more fans and sponsors overall than the BCS will be able to. You could then have a true National Champion at the FCS level instead of the mythical, computer and subjective opinion champion that the BCS crowns.

4) You create a policy that no FCS team plays a BCS team. Make the FCS brand just as if not more intriquing than the BCS brand which is already tarnished. Market it as the only true Series than crowns only a true champion in the spirit of fair and open competition to all its members.

In 5 years or so you could have more people paying attention to the FCS than the BCS because there are a whole bunch more people who went to, have their kids going to or have in their community a university that would be branded FCS.

So goodbye prima donna's of the BCS, I think it would work out fine in the end.

(06-17-2009 01:44 PM)COHUSKIE Wrote:  My first thought was to attack NIJ because for the most part he/she looks to know but really does not know much of anything. However, look at the other side of the argument. Going to FCS might not be bad at all, in fact it could prove to be better in the long run both money wise and recognition wise. Why?

1) You would have few teams left at the BCS level. We all know that you will have the same teams time and time again playing for the championship. Like limited supply and choice it has a limited life. Sooner rather than later people will get tired of seeing Oklahoma, Ohio State, USC and Florida playing in the championship game over and over.

2) Alot of teams would be classified as FCS and some good teams at that. The competition will be better and more pure than the prima donna's of the BCS. You could have a cinderella story almost every year.

3) You can not create a playoff and a good size one at that. If you find a great brain to market it, it could be bigger and draw more fans and sponsors overall than the BCS will be able to. You could then have a true National Champion at the FCS level instead of the mythical, computer and subjective opinion champion that the BCS crowns.

4) You create a policy that no FCS team plays a BCS team. Make the FCS brand just as if not more intriquing than the BCS brand which is already tarnished. Market it as the only true Series than crowns only a true champion in the spirit of fair and open competition to all its members.

In 5 years or so you could have more people paying attention to the FCS than the BCS because there are a whole bunch more people who went to, have their kids going to or have in their community a university that would be branded FCS.

So goodbye prima donna's of the BCS, I think it would work out fine in the end.

Excellent post. I like your ideas, especially #4.