(04-12-2009 01:17 AM)RobertN Wrote: I don't remeber you bitching about Bush and the Republicans when they had control for 6 years.
Maybe you have a memory lapse sickness like CRS, but the first 6 years under Bush weren't NEARLY as bad as his last two. The Republicans lost the 2006 election on one thing alone, people had turned against the Iraqi war. Now it's 2009, where are we? Still in Iraq. During Bush's first 6 years we were attacked, which slammed the stock market, the stock market rebounded and we went to war with two terrorist-supporting nations. We haven't been attack since. Well, yet that is.
I think that was kind of my point. In your opinion the first six years went well because Bush got everything he wanted and fit into your beliefs(despite the many flaws ). Now that Obama is NOT catering to your beliefs, it is all because of too much power in one party.
Btw, I seem to recall this country being attacked AFTER 9/11. Did you have a memory lapse of the anthrax attacks? Don't they count? You revisionist history buffs seem to conveniently forget this.
(04-12-2009 08:18 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I was at a conference on Wednesday, and the main speaker was a "futurist".
Pretty interesting, I'd write more if anyone was interested, but one topic, in a half dozen or so parts, stuck in my head. According to this futurist:
** in the next 18 months, advances in battery technology will allow solar panel and wind turbine technology to effectively store all their generated energy.
** these same advances will allow a solar panel in Fairbanks be as effective as collecting and storing needed energy as a solar panel in Scottsdale, but the panel in Scottsdale could generate additional, un-needed at the source energy.
** all this additional energy will be sent back into the grid, reducing if not eliminating the need for any type of power generating systems.
** in the next 36 months, homeowners will quickly be able to take advantage of this technology and will be able to remove themselves from the energy grid. He estimated an initial investment in the technology would pay itself off in three years. Effective energy independence for the average homeowner.
The reason I write this is because this futurist (John Houle) predicted that the manpower, investment and execution of this Homeowner Energy Independence shift will employ more, spend and generate more, and be more important to the growth of the US and the world than all the monies, people and information needed for the duration of Silicon Valley, the Information Age and computers.
This investment and honest economic activity would effectively eliminate any concern over inflation, unemployment or recession.
I fully agree...Technology and those in search of profit in the free market are probably our only shot at derailing disaster. Government does NOT produce or innovate. It only consumes,pollutes and stagnates progress.
I am sure glad NASA never gave us anything of use. We should just shut it down. it is just a huge waste of money.
I understand that that it is hard in our current statist paradigm to conceive of the free market exploring space. I also understand that most people can live with stealing from their neighbors to finance things "they" feel are important.
(04-13-2009 01:53 AM)RobertN Wrote: Hmm. I don't see "nucular" waste problem or the possible meltdown of the plants with solar panels. I do question the battery as the wa to go. Much of the material used to make them comes from outside the US.
OH OK Robert, you Da Man About Batteries and all, the Chemical Engineer Genius type person and stuff ....
Have no clue as to the Absolute Destructive Poison of "100 Million Batteries" in Garbage Dumps all over BFE USA ????
And I don't care if they are Wet Cell or Dry Cell batteries, What do YOU do with them once they are Spent Beyond Recovery there Master Robert ????
(04-13-2009 01:53 AM)RobertN Wrote: Hmm. I don't see "nucular" waste problem or the possible meltdown of the plants with solar panels. I do question the battery as the wa to go. Much of the material used to make them comes from outside the US.
How many people have died in the production, distribution and use of "nucular" power Robbie?
If most of the matterial for batteries come from outside the US, maybe that's how we deal with battery waste. We send it back at the end of it's usefulness instead of polluting our land. Oh, that's right, that would make us the worlds evil consumer polluting third world countries.
(04-12-2009 08:18 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I was at a conference on Wednesday, and the main speaker was a "futurist".
Pretty interesting, I'd write more if anyone was interested, but one topic, in a half dozen or so parts, stuck in my head. According to this futurist:
** in the next 18 months, advances in battery technology will allow solar panel and wind turbine technology to effectively store all their generated energy.
** these same advances will allow a solar panel in Fairbanks be as effective as collecting and storing needed energy as a solar panel in Scottsdale, but the panel in Scottsdale could generate additional, un-needed at the source energy.
** all this additional energy will be sent back into the grid, reducing if not eliminating the need for any type of power generating systems.
** in the next 36 months, homeowners will quickly be able to take advantage of this technology and will be able to remove themselves from the energy grid. He estimated an initial investment in the technology would pay itself off in three years. Effective energy independence for the average homeowner.
The reason I write this is because this futurist (John Houle) predicted that the manpower, investment and execution of this Homeowner Energy Independence shift will employ more, spend and generate more, and be more important to the growth of the US and the world than all the monies, people and information needed for the duration of Silicon Valley, the Information Age and computers.
This investment and honest economic activity would effectively eliminate any concern over inflation, unemployment or recession.
This is probably true, watch these 5 videos called "The Free Market Case for Green" with TJ Rodgers from a year ago
from what I remember, he said just what you mentioned above, that they are getting the economics behind Silicone to the point to where installing Solar Panel shingles on your house will be a no brainer due to the fact that the investment cost will pay for itself in like a year and a half.
its interesting, Rodgers is the guy that bought Sun Power for like $500k and now its worth billions...all on speculation of this materializing I beleive.
Whats interesting to think about, one of the big things that brought us out of the early 80's recession was the Silicon Chip
Quote:Does solar power “pay,” in the capitalist sense of the word? Almost. According to T. J. Rodgers, solar power is on the edge of ROI — of generating a worthwhile return on investment. And while there’s a learning curve involved in the process of efficiently capturing solar energy, it is neither steep nor prolonged.
here is the whole thing
fst fwd to between 15 and 19 minute range
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2009 08:39 AM by GGniner.)
(04-11-2009 11:18 PM)West Is the Best Wrote: For the first time in my life I am concerned about the future of our country.
If Obama's election was the first tme you were concerned about the future of our conutry, then you really don't have anything to offer on the issue anyway.
Keeping your mind closed to the constitutional raping, executive power grabs, fearmongering, coprporate whoring, and other atrocities perpetuated by the last administration says all we need to know about the value of your opinions.
This board seriously puts other right wing circle jerks to shame. There is absolutely zero objectivity here. None.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2009 09:03 AM by Artifice.)
04-13-2009 09:02 AM
SumOfAllFears
Grim Reaper of Misguided Liberal Souls
Posts: 18,213
Joined: Nov 2008
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(04-13-2009 09:02 AM)Artifice Wrote: Keeping your mind closed to the constitutional raping, executive power grabs, fearmongering, coprporate whoring, and other atrocities perpetuated by the last administration says all we need to know about the value of your opinions.
For a moment I thought you were talking about Obama's administration.
04-13-2009 10:02 AM
SumOfAllFears
Grim Reaper of Misguided Liberal Souls
Posts: 18,213
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 58
I Root For: America
Location:
(04-13-2009 09:02 AM)Artifice Wrote: Keeping your mind closed to the constitutional raping, executive power grabs, fearmongering, coprporate whoring, and other atrocities perpetuated by the last administration says all we need to know about the value of your opinions.
For a moment I thought you were talking about Obama's administration.
Orifice is like that, he gets mixed up easily, often and repeatedly.
(04-13-2009 09:02 AM)Artifice Wrote: Keeping your mind closed to the constitutional raping, executive power grabs, fearmongering, coprporate whoring, and other atrocities perpetuated by the last administration says all we need to know about the value of your opinions.
For a moment I thought you were talking about Obama's administration.
From what I've seen so far, I'd say it applies equally to both.
(04-11-2009 11:18 PM)West Is the Best Wrote: For the first time in my life I am concerned about the future of our country.
If Obama's election was the first tme you were concerned about the future of our conutry, then you really don't have anything to offer on the issue anyway.
Keeping your mind closed to the constitutional raping, executive power grabs, fearmongering, coprporate whoring, and other atrocities perpetuated by the last administration says all we need to know about the value of your opinions.
This board seriously puts other right wing circle jerks to shame. There is absolutely zero objectivity here. None.
Bush and Crew had September 11th 2001 to contend with ....
So what is the Obama excuse for, and I QUOTE: --->
the constitutional raping, executive power grabs, fearmongering, coprporate whoring, and other atrocities.
(04-12-2009 08:18 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I was at a conference on Wednesday, and the main speaker was a "futurist".
Pretty interesting, I'd write more if anyone was interested, but one topic, in a half dozen or so parts, stuck in my head. According to this futurist:
** in the next 18 months, advances in battery technology will allow solar panel and wind turbine technology to effectively store all their generated energy.
** these same advances will allow a solar panel in Fairbanks be as effective as collecting and storing needed energy as a solar panel in Scottsdale, but the panel in Scottsdale could generate additional, un-needed at the source energy.
** all this additional energy will be sent back into the grid, reducing if not eliminating the need for any type of power generating systems.
** in the next 36 months, homeowners will quickly be able to take advantage of this technology and will be able to remove themselves from the energy grid. He estimated an initial investment in the technology would pay itself off in three years. Effective energy independence for the average homeowner.
The reason I write this is because this futurist (John Houle) predicted that the manpower, investment and execution of this Homeowner Energy Independence shift will employ more, spend and generate more, and be more important to the growth of the US and the world than all the monies, people and information needed for the duration of Silicon Valley, the Information Age and computers.
This investment and honest economic activity would effectively eliminate any concern over inflation, unemployment or recession.
Apart from the fact that this is complete horse**** from a technology perspective, I think it ignores some serious issues that a "futurist" should be paying attention to.
1. BTTT, I too am concerned for this country. If this country is a big experiment, w/ social "scientists" engaged, then they are s#itty scientist. Every tweak we perform on the founding fathers' intentions gets accepted as if it's good. When do we ever go back and say, "oops, that was a mistake." What arrogance to think we always get it right. We give everyone the right to vote (started out as landowners, people w/ a stake in the game), we give 18 year olds the right to vote, we push for public schools (despite their explicit history as social engineering tools), we institute an income tax, we don't let states secede, we set up scads of executive agencies, we ignore the 10th amendment, we accept the 17th amendment...Can't we admit that maybe we've made mistakes w/ at least a few of these?
2. "Change we need" Really? And why exactly did we "need" this change? We're still in Iraq and Afghanistan. GM is about to delcare bankruptcy. The banks recovered before the bailout plans could even be enacted.
A president who cares about "the poor" and the "middle class"? Seems to me we have ample evidence that when "caring" means defying the laws of economics, you'll hurt these very people, just as denying the laws of physics will get you smacked down.
When is some "futurist" going to put the pieces together and point out that the American public is F'N STUPID, and believes all sorts of CRAP if it's on TV? When is some "futurist" going to point out that the future is easy to predict based on the dumb things being shown on PBSand being taught in schools?
(04-13-2009 09:02 AM)Artifice Wrote: Keeping your mind closed to the constitutional raping, executive power grabs, fearmongering, coprporate whoring, and other atrocities perpetuated by the last administration says all we need to know about the value of your opinions.
For a moment I thought you were talking about Obama's administration.
From what I've seen so far, I'd say it applies equally to both.
+1...Both gangs love to point the finger at each other. I hope Americans are beginning to understand that these people in power do NOT have their best interests at heart. They are ONLY concerned with extending the scope and size of government..."In the manner THEY think is best". That is why government continues to expand and our liberties evaporate.
ALL governmental systems eventually create tyranny. It can be NO other way.
(04-12-2009 08:18 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I was at a conference on Wednesday, and the main speaker was a "futurist".
Pretty interesting, I'd write more if anyone was interested, but one topic, in a half dozen or so parts, stuck in my head. According to this futurist:
** in the next 18 months, advances in battery technology will allow solar panel and wind turbine technology to effectively store all their generated energy.
** these same advances will allow a solar panel in Fairbanks be as effective as collecting and storing needed energy as a solar panel in Scottsdale, but the panel in Scottsdale could generate additional, un-needed at the source energy.
** all this additional energy will be sent back into the grid, reducing if not eliminating the need for any type of power generating systems.
** in the next 36 months, homeowners will quickly be able to take advantage of this technology and will be able to remove themselves from the energy grid. He estimated an initial investment in the technology would pay itself off in three years. Effective energy independence for the average homeowner.
The reason I write this is because this futurist (John Houle) predicted that the manpower, investment and execution of this Homeowner Energy Independence shift will employ more, spend and generate more, and be more important to the growth of the US and the world than all the monies, people and information needed for the duration of Silicon Valley, the Information Age and computers.
This investment and honest economic activity would effectively eliminate any concern over inflation, unemployment or recession.
Change "months" to "years" in the foregoing, and you'd have a much more likely projection. Putting all our eggs in the basket of alternative energy is an extremely stupid strategy. We need to get there someday, but we're not going to do anything but cripple our country and our economy unless we realize that "someday" is probably at least 20 years in the future, and we need to find a way to get from here to there first.
As a good rule of thumb, something that exists only in a lab today is at least 20 years from being implementable on a large scale. Something that is being worked on in a lab today, but so far hasn't actually happened, is even further away.
The oft-repeated mantra that, "If we could put a man on the moon in ten years, we can solve the energy problem in less time," rests squarely upon the great misconception that the space program consisted of JFK giving a speech and our landing on the moon less than 10 years later. We were already 15-20 years into a concerted effort to get to the moon when JFK gave his speech. The first seven astronauts were selected during the Eisenhower adminstration, and several of them had already flown in space by the time JFK gave his "why does Rice play Texas?" speech (as I like to call it), to give at least two examples of how far along we were. What JFK's speech did was to make a decision between two then-competing strategies--one, to build a space station first and then go to the moon from the space station (the preferred approach of Werner Von Braun and the army, which would have had us on the moon by about 1975), or two, to go straight to the moon from earth (which JFK's timeline essentially commited us to, since this was the only option that had any chance to get us there during the decade). That's all it did. It didn't start the space program.
Starting with a gross mischaracterization of the truth, and implying that it somehow suggests speedy resolution to a totally different problem, is a bit disingenuous at best.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2009 05:22 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
(04-12-2009 08:18 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I was at a conference on Wednesday, and the main speaker was a "futurist".
Pretty interesting, I'd write more if anyone was interested, but one topic, in a half dozen or so parts, stuck in my head. According to this futurist:
** in the next 18 months, advances in battery technology will allow solar panel and wind turbine technology to effectively store all their generated energy.
** these same advances will allow a solar panel in Fairbanks be as effective as collecting and storing needed energy as a solar panel in Scottsdale, but the panel in Scottsdale could generate additional, un-needed at the source energy.
** all this additional energy will be sent back into the grid, reducing if not eliminating the need for any type of power generating systems.
** in the next 36 months, homeowners will quickly be able to take advantage of this technology and will be able to remove themselves from the energy grid. He estimated an initial investment in the technology would pay itself off in three years. Effective energy independence for the average homeowner.
The reason I write this is because this futurist (John Houle) predicted that the manpower, investment and execution of this Homeowner Energy Independence shift will employ more, spend and generate more, and be more important to the growth of the US and the world than all the monies, people and information needed for the duration of Silicon Valley, the Information Age and computers.
This investment and honest economic activity would effectively eliminate any concern over inflation, unemployment or recession.
Apart from the fact that this is complete horse**** from a technology perspective, I think it ignores some serious issues that a "futurist" should be paying attention to.
1. BTTT, I too am concerned for this country. If this country is a big experiment, w/ social "scientists" engaged, then they are s#itty scientist. Every tweak we perform on the founding fathers' intentions gets accepted as if it's good. When do we ever go back and say, "oops, that was a mistake." What arrogance to think we always get it right. We give everyone the right to vote (started out as landowners, people w/ a stake in the game), we give 18 year olds the right to vote, we push for public schools (despite their explicit history as social engineering tools), we institute an income tax, we don't let states secede, we set up scads of executive agencies, we ignore the 10th amendment, we accept the 17th amendment...Can't we admit that maybe we've made mistakes w/ at least a few of these?
2. "Change we need" Really? And why exactly did we "need" this change? We're still in Iraq and Afghanistan. GM is about to delcare bankruptcy. The banks recovered before the bailout plans could even be enacted.
A president who cares about "the poor" and the "middle class"? Seems to me we have ample evidence that when "caring" means defying the laws of economics, you'll hurt these very people, just as denying the laws of physics will get you smacked down.
When is some "futurist" going to put the pieces together and point out that the American public is F'N STUPID, and believes all sorts of CRAP if it's on TV? When is some "futurist" going to point out that the future is easy to predict based on the dumb things being shown on PBSand being taught in schools?
I agree that American are simply "ignorant" not "stupid". We have been totally indoctrinated by a Prussian style education model that has taught us to worship the state and become it's good worker bees.
I enjoy the futurist POV...I like Ray Kurzweil ....Stanford professor emitirus. He has been doing this for a couple of centuries and has been pretty accurate in his theories. I think the guy is 80+yrs old. I like his prediction about computer technology...specifically the jump to terabytes.(sp?)
His theory is that a lot of discoveries are being held back because we lack the current computer power and we are on the verge of new technological and industrial age. I hope he is correct...anyway it's fun stuff to ponder anyway.
(04-13-2009 01:53 AM)RobertN Wrote: Hmm. I don't see "nucular" waste problem or the possible meltdown of the plants with solar panels. I do question the battery as the wa to go. Much of the material used to make them comes from outside the US.
There is a far greater problem of plastic bag waste problem than there is with nuclear waste problem. The IAEA estimated about 50 deaths due to the Chernobyl accident. How about how many have died due to coal or petroleum or batteries? Likely thousands upon thousands for each.
(04-13-2009 05:15 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: I enjoy the futurist POV...I like Ray Kurzweil ....Stanford professor emitirus. He has been doing this for a couple of centuries and has been pretty accurate in his theories. I think the guy is 80+yrs old. I like his prediction about computer technology...specifically the jump to terabytes.(sp?)
His theory is that a lot of discoveries are being held back because we lack the current computer power and we are on the verge of new technological and industrial age. I hope he is correct...anyway it's fun stuff to ponder anyway.
It would be fun, if we were free to enjoy technology. Instead it's just one more form of entertainment, keeping people distracted from reality. It's an updated version of Nietsche's interpretation of religion.
). Now that Obama is NOT catering to your beliefs, it is all because of too much power in one party. 
