(10-22-2026 05:20 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The PCSA may actually cause a super league by accident. If the conferences are capped at 20 and UNC, Miami, Florida State, and Clemson go independent and it is successful, what’s is to stop Ohio State and Michigan to do it if they can find an Olympic sports home.

It is designed to stop that. You can't do a joint TV contract.

(10-22-2026 06:39 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:28 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:20 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The PCSA may actually cause a super league by accident. If the conferences are capped at 20 and UNC, Miami, Florida State, and Clemson go independent and it is successful, what’s is to stop Ohio State and Michigan to do it if they can find an Olympic sports home.

Sure. What is to stop either from deciding they are better off with ND and those four as regulars on their football schedule over some of the teams they play now?

NCAA ban on single sport FBS football conferences plus federal anti-trust issues with independent schools pooling media rights. I had a Thought Patrol on northern schools doing this last offseason and that was the ultimate answer. I suppose schools could try to not pool media rights but if they don't the networks will rip them apart. These "lesser blue bloods" like FSU and Clemson will never be able to get ND style deals because they don't have the ND fanbase's size or wealth. At best they get something equivalent to a little more than a maximum ACC share but with a miserable streaming deal that would see them off of America's televisions and out of America's thoughts.

Are you OK? This comes off as a bit ax-grinding. Talk of schools being ‘ripped apart’ and ‘miserable’ and ‘lesser’ and hopeless—concluding with a fantasy of exiling them from the Beaver vision of America for thinking uppity thoughts.

Anyway.

The ACC permits a ND-style arrangement for any schools that want it, and locks in a $75M exit fee for schools leaving for one sport in a batch of six.

This is information we do have. We also have what we know of legislation in progress.

Beyond that, we are in the realm of conjecture. We don’t know how the spreadsheets would read because there is much we do not know about what any media arrangement would be or what any scheduling agreements with conferences might entail.

We can wonder. That’s where we are on this right now. There was a time when a 24-team playoff was in the same space.

Your own conjectures above suggest something like this can work for schools as an interim move, at least, should a 3-year indie requirement remain in the PCSA. And that may be all it needs to do.

(10-22-2026 07:17 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:39 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:28 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:20 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The PCSA may actually cause a super league by accident. If the conferences are capped at 20 and UNC, Miami, Florida State, and Clemson go independent and it is successful, what’s is to stop Ohio State and Michigan to do it if they can find an Olympic sports home.

Sure. What is to stop either from deciding they are better off with ND and those four as regulars on their football schedule over some of the teams they play now?

NCAA ban on single sport FBS football conferences plus federal anti-trust issues with independent schools pooling media rights. I had a Thought Patrol on northern schools doing this last offseason and that was the ultimate answer. I suppose schools could try to not pool media rights but if they don't the networks will rip them apart. These "lesser blue bloods" like FSU and Clemson will never be able to get ND style deals because they don't have the ND fanbase's size or wealth. At best they get something equivalent to a little more than a maximum ACC share but with a miserable streaming deal that would see them off of America's televisions and out of America's thoughts.

Are you OK? This comes off as a bit ax-grinding. Talk of schools being ‘ripped apart’ and ‘miserable’ and ‘lesser’ and hopeless—concluding with a fantasy of exiling them from the Beaver vision of America for thinking uppity thoughts.

Anyway.

The ACC permits a ND-style arrangement for any schools that want it, and locks in a $75M exit fee for schools leaving for one sport in a batch of six.

This is information we do have. We also have what we know of legislation in progress.

Beyond that, we are in the realm of conjecture. We don’t know how the spreadsheets would read because there is much we do not know about what any media arrangement would be or what any scheduling agreements with conferences might entail.

We can wonder. That’s where we are on this right now. There was a time when a 24-team playoff was in the same space.

Your own conjectures above suggest something like this can work for schools as an interim move, at least, should a 3-year indie requirement remain in the PCSA. And that may be all it needs to do.

The animosity is towards streaming-only, which is terrible for customers. There aren't a hundred NBCs out there willing to sponsor 100 Notre Dames. Nor, of course, are there 100 Notre Dames.

Edit: I also used to like the pre-retirement home version of the MLS and am sad that they eventually ended up hobbled by that Apple deal.

(10-22-2026 06:45 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:39 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:28 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:20 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The PCSA may actually cause a super league by accident. If the conferences are capped at 20 and UNC, Miami, Florida State, and Clemson go independent and it is successful, what’s is to stop Ohio State and Michigan to do it if they can find an Olympic sports home.

Sure. What is to stop either from deciding they are better off with ND and those four as regulars on their football schedule over some of the teams they play now?

NCAA ban on single sport FBS football conferences plus federal anti-trust issues with independent schools pooling media rights. I had a Thought Patrol on northern schools doing this last offseason and that was the ultimate answer. I suppose schools could try to not pool media rights but if they don't the networks will rip them apart. These "lesser blue bloods" like FSU and Clemson will never be able to get ND style deals because they don't have the ND fanbase's size or wealth. At best they get something equivalent to a little more than a maximum ACC share but with a miserable streaming deal that would see them off of America's televisions and out of America's thoughts.

You’ve hit on a Thought Patrol I’ve had for years: why are there ridiculous rules on pooling rights? Why can a conference of upwards into the 20’s pool rights, but a league of independents can’t? It’s absurd. Release the rights! Create a super bundle while maintaining conference membership. Use OOC games to schedule the big dawgs in the super bundle.

Well, imagine if the local plumbing companies did that... For pro sports, of course, they are only allowed to do this because of the Sports Broadcasting Act and MLS's single ownership structure. Maybe the actual answer is that conference rights are an anti-trust violation that schools have gotten away with for the past 40 years.

(10-22-2026 08:36 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:45 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:39 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:28 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:20 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The PCSA may actually cause a super league by accident. If the conferences are capped at 20 and UNC, Miami, Florida State, and Clemson go independent and it is successful, what’s is to stop Ohio State and Michigan to do it if they can find an Olympic sports home.

Sure. What is to stop either from deciding they are better off with ND and those four as regulars on their football schedule over some of the teams they play now?

NCAA ban on single sport FBS football conferences plus federal anti-trust issues with independent schools pooling media rights. I had a Thought Patrol on northern schools doing this last offseason and that was the ultimate answer. I suppose schools could try to not pool media rights but if they don't the networks will rip them apart. These "lesser blue bloods" like FSU and Clemson will never be able to get ND style deals because they don't have the ND fanbase's size or wealth. At best they get something equivalent to a little more than a maximum ACC share but with a miserable streaming deal that would see them off of America's televisions and out of America's thoughts.

You’ve hit on a Thought Patrol I’ve had for years: why are there ridiculous rules on pooling rights? Why can a conference of upwards into the 20’s pool rights, but a league of independents can’t? It’s absurd. Release the rights! Create a super bundle while maintaining conference membership. Use OOC games to schedule the big dawgs in the super bundle.

Well, imagine if the local plumbing companies did that... For pro sports, of course, they are only allowed to do this because of the Sports Broadcasting Act and MLS's single ownership structure. Maybe the actual answer is that conference rights are an anti-trust violation that schools have gotten away with for the past 40 years.

Conferences have never been a significant part of the marketplace. CFA was pretty significant and nobody challenged it. But nobody was forced into it. It was voluntary. And then it broke apart with first Notre Dame and then everyone else leaving. Maybe the SEC and Big Ten are getting significant, but on the other hand, nobody is impairing the other conferences from getting TV contracts.

(10-22-2026 10:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 08:36 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:45 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:39 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:28 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  Sure. What is to stop either from deciding they are better off with ND and those four as regulars on their football schedule over some of the teams they play now?

NCAA ban on single sport FBS football conferences plus federal anti-trust issues with independent schools pooling media rights. I had a Thought Patrol on northern schools doing this last offseason and that was the ultimate answer. I suppose schools could try to not pool media rights but if they don't the networks will rip them apart. These "lesser blue bloods" like FSU and Clemson will never be able to get ND style deals because they don't have the ND fanbase's size or wealth. At best they get something equivalent to a little more than a maximum ACC share but with a miserable streaming deal that would see them off of America's televisions and out of America's thoughts.

You’ve hit on a Thought Patrol I’ve had for years: why are there ridiculous rules on pooling rights? Why can a conference of upwards into the 20’s pool rights, but a league of independents can’t? It’s absurd. Release the rights! Create a super bundle while maintaining conference membership. Use OOC games to schedule the big dawgs in the super bundle.

Well, imagine if the local plumbing companies did that... For pro sports, of course, they are only allowed to do this because of the Sports Broadcasting Act and MLS's single ownership structure. Maybe the actual answer is that conference rights are an anti-trust violation that schools have gotten away with for the past 40 years.

Conferences have never been a significant part of the marketplace. CFA was pretty significant and nobody challenged it. But nobody was forced into it. It was voluntary. And then it broke apart with first Notre Dame and then everyone else leaving. Maybe the SEC and Big Ten are getting significant, but on the other hand, nobody is impairing the other conferences from getting TV contracts.

Well its a multi-billion dollar national market, I'd argue even the G6 are "significant", bear in mind that the FTC will investigate even local/regional market abuses.

(10-22-2026 06:58 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:20 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The PCSA may actually cause a super league by accident. If the conferences are capped at 20 and UNC, Miami, Florida State, and Clemson go independent and it is successful, what’s is to stop Ohio State and Michigan to do it if they can find an Olympic sports home.

There will be no super league with either a ton of SEC schools or one built around the current SEC. You could take the top 16 earners/most valuable programs/highest tv ratings schools outside of the SEC, set them up as an SEC-antagonist, and they'd struggle to surpass the SEC's current numbers. Besides which, we've seen Indiana rise from bottom of the B1G to a top 10 in all of CFB ratings darling in less than 24 months...what's to stop others in the B1G from filling the breach of OSU and Michigan both leave? What's to stop ND from jumping in to take their places? THAT would be pretty funny.

Baloney. How can you possibly back that up? The B1G already has a more lucrative TV deal and their next one will crush the SEC’s. They’ve also won the last three natties and no signs of stopping.

OSU
Michigan
Penn State
UCLA
S Cal
Nebraska
Oregon
Washington
Miami
FSU
Clemson
Notre Dame
Georgia Tech
Wisconsin
Iowa
Indiana

(10-22-2026 10:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 08:36 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:45 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:39 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:28 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  Sure. What is to stop either from deciding they are better off with ND and those four as regulars on their football schedule over some of the teams they play now?

NCAA ban on single sport FBS football conferences plus federal anti-trust issues with independent schools pooling media rights. I had a Thought Patrol on northern schools doing this last offseason and that was the ultimate answer. I suppose schools could try to not pool media rights but if they don't the networks will rip them apart. These "lesser blue bloods" like FSU and Clemson will never be able to get ND style deals because they don't have the ND fanbase's size or wealth. At best they get something equivalent to a little more than a maximum ACC share but with a miserable streaming deal that would see them off of America's televisions and out of America's thoughts.

You’ve hit on a Thought Patrol I’ve had for years: why are there ridiculous rules on pooling rights? Why can a conference of upwards into the 20’s pool rights, but a league of independents can’t? It’s absurd. Release the rights! Create a super bundle while maintaining conference membership. Use OOC games to schedule the big dawgs in the super bundle.

Well, imagine if the local plumbing companies did that... For pro sports, of course, they are only allowed to do this because of the Sports Broadcasting Act and MLS's single ownership structure. Maybe the actual answer is that conference rights are an anti-trust violation that schools have gotten away with for the past 40 years.

Conferences have never been a significant part of the marketplace. CFA was pretty significant and nobody challenged it. But nobody was forced into it. It was voluntary. And then it broke apart with first Notre Dame and then everyone else leaving. Maybe the SEC and Big Ten are getting significant, but on the other hand, nobody is impairing the other conferences from getting TV contracts.

Conferences have been an extremely significant part of the media landscape since the 80’s. I don’t understand how anyone can deny that.

What started as administrative offices that handled rules, refs, and scheduling have turned into brands. Brands that are now being sponsored by other brands!

The B1G and SEC have caused significant disadvantages around CFB via their hostile takeover. They’ve decreased value of other conferences to the point university presidents are classifying conferences in monetary tiers which hold specific voting power. Meanwhile there are silly restrictions around any other form of media bundling outside the conference structure. That looks like a market takeover to me.*

I feel like there is a pretty strong case being built here.




*Insert predictable “ACC dId It ToO So Ur pOiNt InVaLiD!”

Doesn’t mean I EVER supported it personally. I didn’t.

(10-23-2026 06:23 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 10:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 08:36 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:45 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:39 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  NCAA ban on single sport FBS football conferences plus federal anti-trust issues with independent schools pooling media rights. I had a Thought Patrol on northern schools doing this last offseason and that was the ultimate answer. I suppose schools could try to not pool media rights but if they don't the networks will rip them apart. These "lesser blue bloods" like FSU and Clemson will never be able to get ND style deals because they don't have the ND fanbase's size or wealth. At best they get something equivalent to a little more than a maximum ACC share but with a miserable streaming deal that would see them off of America's televisions and out of America's thoughts.

You’ve hit on a Thought Patrol I’ve had for years: why are there ridiculous rules on pooling rights? Why can a conference of upwards into the 20’s pool rights, but a league of independents can’t? It’s absurd. Release the rights! Create a super bundle while maintaining conference membership. Use OOC games to schedule the big dawgs in the super bundle.

Well, imagine if the local plumbing companies did that... For pro sports, of course, they are only allowed to do this because of the Sports Broadcasting Act and MLS's single ownership structure. Maybe the actual answer is that conference rights are an anti-trust violation that schools have gotten away with for the past 40 years.

Conferences have never been a significant part of the marketplace. CFA was pretty significant and nobody challenged it. But nobody was forced into it. It was voluntary. And then it broke apart with first Notre Dame and then everyone else leaving. Maybe the SEC and Big Ten are getting significant, but on the other hand, nobody is impairing the other conferences from getting TV contracts.

Conferences have been an extremely significant part of the media landscape since the 80’s. I don’t understand how anyone can deny that.

What started as administrative offices that handled rules, refs, and scheduling have turned into brands. Brands that are now being sponsored by other brands!

The B1G and SEC have caused significant disadvantages around CFB via their hostile takeover. They’ve decreased value of other conferences to the point university presidents are classifying conferences in monetary tiers which hold specific voting power. Meanwhile there are silly restrictions around any other form of media bundling outside the conference structure. That looks like a market takeover to me.*

I feel like there is a pretty strong case being built here.




*Insert predictable “ACC dId It ToO So Ur pOiNt InVaLiD!”

Doesn’t mean I EVER supported it personally. I didn’t.

Conferences are merely the proxies for their media partners. Nothing fundamentally changed at the University Administrative level. Media Corporations changed Universities through the Athletic Department. Everyone should have taken note when Media Rights Contract Attorneys started becoming conference commissioners and ADs quit rising to that position.

(10-23-2026 07:16 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-23-2026 06:23 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 10:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 08:36 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:45 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  You’ve hit on a Thought Patrol I’ve had for years: why are there ridiculous rules on pooling rights? Why can a conference of upwards into the 20’s pool rights, but a league of independents can’t? It’s absurd. Release the rights! Create a super bundle while maintaining conference membership. Use OOC games to schedule the big dawgs in the super bundle.

Well, imagine if the local plumbing companies did that... For pro sports, of course, they are only allowed to do this because of the Sports Broadcasting Act and MLS's single ownership structure. Maybe the actual answer is that conference rights are an anti-trust violation that schools have gotten away with for the past 40 years.

Conferences have never been a significant part of the marketplace. CFA was pretty significant and nobody challenged it. But nobody was forced into it. It was voluntary. And then it broke apart with first Notre Dame and then everyone else leaving. Maybe the SEC and Big Ten are getting significant, but on the other hand, nobody is impairing the other conferences from getting TV contracts.

Conferences have been an extremely significant part of the media landscape since the 80’s. I don’t understand how anyone can deny that.

What started as administrative offices that handled rules, refs, and scheduling have turned into brands. Brands that are now being sponsored by other brands!

The B1G and SEC have caused significant disadvantages around CFB via their hostile takeover. They’ve decreased value of other conferences to the point university presidents are classifying conferences in monetary tiers which hold specific voting power. Meanwhile there are silly restrictions around any other form of media bundling outside the conference structure. That looks like a market takeover to me.*

I feel like there is a pretty strong case being built here.




*Insert predictable “ACC dId It ToO So Ur pOiNt InVaLiD!”

Doesn’t mean I EVER supported it personally. I didn’t.

Conferences are merely the proxies for their media partners. Nothing fundamentally changed at the University Administrative level. Media Corporations changed Universities through the Athletic Department. Everyone should have taken note when Media Rights Contract Attorneys started becoming conference commissioners and ADs quit rising to that position.

That sounds like a defensive position I'm sure conferences would take.

I took note. We can go back to decorated war veteran and Brigadier General, Harvey Schiller as a pioneering business-first commissioner of the modern age—which IMO is post OU/UGa case. Kramer (a Vandy AD at the time) gets all the credit, but he was actually anti-expansion while Schiller openly talked to reporters about the plan to go to 16 due to expanding into "new markets."

IMO, what we have now would have started in the 1950's due to TV broadcasts had the NCAA not outlawed individual schools from securing their own contracts. It would have only been a matter of time until schools started bundling rights together. However, an Airplane Conference of Independents and disenfranchised Pacific schools would have formed very early on, and I believe our landscape would look a lot different.

It's been a long drawn out process vs one that would have come together naturally early on. That, or the courts could have foreseen their rules are arbitrary because they prevented the NCAA super-bundle, but instead approved a model which allowed monopolies anyway.

CFB essentially cut off its nose to spite its face.

(10-22-2026 06:45 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:39 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:28 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:20 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The PCSA may actually cause a super league by accident. If the conferences are capped at 20 and UNC, Miami, Florida State, and Clemson go independent and it is successful, what’s is to stop Ohio State and Michigan to do it if they can find an Olympic sports home.

Sure. What is to stop either from deciding they are better off with ND and those four as regulars on their football schedule over some of the teams they play now?

NCAA ban on single sport FBS football conferences plus federal anti-trust issues with independent schools pooling media rights. I had a Thought Patrol on northern schools doing this last offseason and that was the ultimate answer. I suppose schools could try to not pool media rights but if they don't the networks will rip them apart. These "lesser blue bloods" like FSU and Clemson will never be able to get ND style deals because they don't have the ND fanbase's size or wealth. At best they get something equivalent to a little more than a maximum ACC share but with a miserable streaming deal that would see them off of America's televisions and out of America's thoughts.

You’ve hit on a Thought Patrol I’ve had for years: why are there ridiculous rules on pooling rights? Why can a conference of upwards into the 20’s pool rights, but a league of independents can’t? It’s absurd. Release the rights! Create a super bundle while maintaining conference membership. Use OOC games to schedule the big dawgs in the super bundle.

There’s not necessarily a rule on independents pooling media rights. It’s more about the marketplace and what’s the most lucrative option for the greatest number of schools, which is why independents eventually evaporated down to Notre Dame (by choice) and UConn (sort of forced into it if it wanted Big East basketball. The old College Football Association did pool the rights of independents (among others) before. Notre Dame makes more than the ACC schools, but even as a school with arguably the most nationalized fan base, it still makes less than the average Big Ten school. You can set up the greatest schedule ever, but if you’re independent, you’re still only selling the rights to *your* home games.

That’s why I’ve never bought true Notre Dame-style independence as a viable threat: if ND can’t make more than an aggregated Big Ten and SEC package, then realistically no one can. This makes sense with basic economics: the fewer sellers selling a product on a marketplace gives those sellers more pricing power. The Big Ten as an aggregate has more pricing power than if the 18 members went out and individually sold their media rights, to the point where the additional value of that aggregation is so overwhelming that Purdue makes more media money than Notre Dame down the road. That’s why antitrust law exists in the first place: it’s a basic truism that concentrating sellers into one entity drives up prices.

The Super League is what has always been the real threat. Even Ohio State and Alabama can’t really expect much different than Notre Dame-level rights fees (as the generally better schedules that Ohio State and Alabama have are tied to them being in the Big Ten and SEC). 20 of the top brands getting together and forming a league, on the other hand, *is* a massive revenue generator compared to being a member of the Big Ten or SEC.

Now, if the top 20 brands all decide to go independent and then all happen to play each other, then that’s a de facto Super League. Whether all 20 of those schools are prevented from pooling their media rights together in a way that wouldn’t be the case if they formed a conference is a grey area, although from a pure media rights standpoint, it’s a distinction without a difference.

The main issues with being a confederation of independents as opposed to an actual conference may be less about media rights and more about governance. Independence is great because there are no rules for me, but that also means that there are no rules for thee. Look at the litigation that the SEC and LSU are still going through - even Texas and Alabama don’t want to be playing against an LSU team that has certain types of players. We kind of give short shrift the governance piece a lot, but much like mergers and acquisitions, there are economics of scale and direct enforcement mechanism when there is a coordinated and concentrated group that are signed onto same by-laws that is simply impossible when that same group is subject to just a strict business arrangement for media rights.

I think the governance piece is underrated by a lot of fans. It’s something that is necessary and all schools want (or at least say that they want) but everyone hates doing it. That’s a large reason why the NCAA itself still exists. The Big Ten and SEC could theoretically just separate from the NCAA and create their own governance structure (and that has been suggested many times on this forum), but that require recreating all of the governance and administrative functions that the NCAA had before… and that both SUCKS in practice and, quite importantly, costs a lot of money to implement. Even the wealthiest conferences don’t want to be spending their money on hiring more governance and administrative officials - that’s exactly what they want to outsource.

Circling back, it’s another reason why the CFA - which did aggregate the media rights of many then-independents - ultimately went away. It was a pure media contract. That was all that bound those schools together. In essence, the schools were “dating” each other, but none of them were “married” to each other in the way that they would be in a conference or even under the NCAA. Now, we can say that a conference today is really just a reflection of its media contract, but there are still a lot more obligations when you sign onto the by-laws of an entity that go far beyond a media deal where you are really married to that organization legally. 16 independents can’t do a thing about LSU whereas the SEC with 16 members can actually do quite a bit to LSU.

Maximizing income in capitalism actually *does* require rule of law. Anarchy can temporarily make a few people more money, but ultimately it depresses the economy overall because stability of income requires, well, stability or at least working from certain rules. Asking independents to get together and agree on certain things but try to avoid being a conference is sort of attempting to have “coordinated anarchy” and that is an oxymoron at it’s core where it is very difficult to last beyond a temporary period (see the CFA era for college football). That’s more psychological than it is legal or even financial. Heck, to circle it back, the whole reason why Notre Dame is still independent is *psychological* (how it sees its identity) than it is financial.

(10-23-2026 08:12 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:45 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:39 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:28 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:20 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The PCSA may actually cause a super league by accident. If the conferences are capped at 20 and UNC, Miami, Florida State, and Clemson go independent and it is successful, what’s is to stop Ohio State and Michigan to do it if they can find an Olympic sports home.

Sure. What is to stop either from deciding they are better off with ND and those four as regulars on their football schedule over some of the teams they play now?

NCAA ban on single sport FBS football conferences plus federal anti-trust issues with independent schools pooling media rights. I had a Thought Patrol on northern schools doing this last offseason and that was the ultimate answer. I suppose schools could try to not pool media rights but if they don't the networks will rip them apart. These "lesser blue bloods" like FSU and Clemson will never be able to get ND style deals because they don't have the ND fanbase's size or wealth. At best they get something equivalent to a little more than a maximum ACC share but with a miserable streaming deal that would see them off of America's televisions and out of America's thoughts.

You’ve hit on a Thought Patrol I’ve had for years: why are there ridiculous rules on pooling rights? Why can a conference of upwards into the 20’s pool rights, but a league of independents can’t? It’s absurd. Release the rights! Create a super bundle while maintaining conference membership. Use OOC games to schedule the big dawgs in the super bundle.

There’s not necessarily a rule on independents pooling media rights. It’s more about the marketplace and what’s the most lucrative option for the greatest number of schools, which is why independents eventually evaporated down to Notre Dame (by choice) and UConn (sort of forced into it if it wanted Big East basketball. The old College Football Association did pool the rights of independents (among others) before. Notre Dame makes more than the ACC schools, but even as a school with arguably the most nationalized fan base, it still makes less than the average Big Ten school. You can set up the greatest schedule ever, but if you’re independent, you’re still only selling the rights to *your* home games.

That’s why I’ve never bought true Notre Dame-style independence as a viable threat: if ND can’t make more than an aggregated Big Ten and SEC package, then realistically no one can. This makes sense with basic economics: the fewer sellers selling a product on a marketplace gives those sellers more pricing power. The Big Ten as an aggregate has more pricing power than if the 18 members went out and individually sold their media rights, to the point where the additional value of that aggregation is so overwhelming that Purdue makes more media money than Notre Dame down the road. That’s why antitrust law exists in the first place: it’s a basic truism that concentrating sellers into one entity drives up prices.

The Super League is what has always been the real threat. Even Ohio State and Alabama can’t really expect much different than Notre Dame-level rights fees (as the generally better schedules that Ohio State and Alabama have are tied to them being in the Big Ten and SEC). 20 of the top brands getting together and forming a league, on the other hand, *is* a massive revenue generator compared to being a member of the Big Ten or SEC.

Now, if the top 20 brands all decide to go independent and then all happen to play each other, then that’s a de facto Super League. Whether all 20 of those schools are prevented from pooling their media rights together in a way that wouldn’t be the case if they formed a conference is a grey area, although from a pure media rights standpoint, it’s a distinction without a difference.

The main issues with being a confederation of independents as opposed to an actual conference may be less about media rights and more about governance. Independence is great because there are no rules for me, but that also means that there are no rules for thee. Look at the litigation that the SEC and LSU are still going through - even Texas and Alabama don’t want to be playing against an LSU team that has certain types of players. We kind of give short shrift the governance piece a lot, but much like mergers and acquisitions, there are economics of scale and direct enforcement mechanism when there is a coordinated and concentrated group that are signed onto same by-laws that is simply impossible when that same group is subject to just a strict business arrangement for media rights.

I think the governance piece is underrated by a lot of fans. It’s something that is necessary and all schools want (or at least say that they want) but everyone hates doing it. That’s a large reason why the NCAA itself still exists. The Big Ten and SEC could theoretically just separate from the NCAA and create their own governance structure (and that has been suggested many times on this forum), but that require recreating all of the governance and administrative functions that the NCAA had before… and that both SUCKS in practice and, quite importantly, costs a lot of money to implement. Even the wealthiest conferences don’t want to be spending their money on hiring more governance and administrative officials - that’s exactly what they want to outsource.

Circling back, it’s another reason why the CFA - which did aggregate the media rights of many then-independents - ultimately went away. It was a pure media contract. That was all that bound those schools together. In essence, the schools were “dating” each other, but none of them were “married” to each other in the way that they would be in a conference or even under the NCAA. Now, we can say that a conference today is really just a reflection of its media contract, but there are still a lot more obligations when you sign onto the by-laws of an entity that go far beyond a media deal where you are really married to that organization legally. 16 independents can’t do a thing about LSU whereas the SEC with 16 members can actually do quite a bit to LSU.

Maximizing income in capitalism actually *does* require rule of law. Anarchy can temporarily make a few people more money, but ultimately it depresses the economy overall because stability of income requires, well, stability or at least working from certain rules. Asking independents to get together and agree on certain things but try to avoid being a conference is sort of attempting to have “coordinated anarchy” and that is an oxymoron at it’s core where it is very difficult to last beyond a temporary period (see the CFA era for college football). That’s more psychological than it is legal or even financial. Heck, to circle it back, the whole reason why Notre Dame is still independent is *psychological* (how it sees its identity) than it is financial.

I'm not debating the vast majority of what you've written. I believe a significant source of uncovered revenue would need to be found in order for football independence to be sustainable. This would include the university controlling 100% of the media rights, producing in-house, streaming their own content in a way which currently seems unviable, and possibly increasing home games.

I am specifically talking about bundling schools in a media package while remaining in a conference. The marquee "bundle-only" games can be scheduled out of conference.

Why is it a conference dictates that a university must bundle their media together? I think that is a fair question to ask a conference office. What is their intended purpose and why are they controlling media rights?

(10-23-2026 08:12 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:45 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:39 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:28 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:20 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The PCSA may actually cause a super league by accident. If the conferences are capped at 20 and UNC, Miami, Florida State, and Clemson go independent and it is successful, what’s is to stop Ohio State and Michigan to do it if they can find an Olympic sports home.

Sure. What is to stop either from deciding they are better off with ND and those four as regulars on their football schedule over some of the teams they play now?

NCAA ban on single sport FBS football conferences plus federal anti-trust issues with independent schools pooling media rights. I had a Thought Patrol on northern schools doing this last offseason and that was the ultimate answer. I suppose schools could try to not pool media rights but if they don't the networks will rip them apart. These "lesser blue bloods" like FSU and Clemson will never be able to get ND style deals because they don't have the ND fanbase's size or wealth. At best they get something equivalent to a little more than a maximum ACC share but with a miserable streaming deal that would see them off of America's televisions and out of America's thoughts.

You’ve hit on a Thought Patrol I’ve had for years: why are there ridiculous rules on pooling rights? Why can a conference of upwards into the 20’s pool rights, but a league of independents can’t? It’s absurd. Release the rights! Create a super bundle while maintaining conference membership. Use OOC games to schedule the big dawgs in the super bundle.

There’s not necessarily a rule on independents pooling media rights. It’s more about the marketplace and what’s the most lucrative option for the greatest number of schools, which is why independents eventually evaporated down to Notre Dame (by choice) and UConn (sort of forced into it if it wanted Big East basketball. The old College Football Association did pool the rights of independents (among others) before. Notre Dame makes more than the ACC schools, but even as a school with arguably the most nationalized fan base, it still makes less than the average Big Ten school. You can set up the greatest schedule ever, but if you’re independent, you’re still only selling the rights to *your* home games.

That’s why I’ve never bought true Notre Dame-style independence as a viable threat: if ND can’t make more than an aggregated Big Ten and SEC package, then realistically no one can. This makes sense with basic economics: the fewer sellers selling a product on a marketplace gives those sellers more pricing power. The Big Ten as an aggregate has more pricing power than if the 18 members went out and individually sold their media rights, to the point where the additional value of that aggregation is so overwhelming that Purdue makes more media money than Notre Dame down the road. That’s why antitrust law exists in the first place: it’s a basic truism that concentrating sellers into one entity drives up prices.

The Super League is what has always been the real threat. Even Ohio State and Alabama can’t really expect much different than Notre Dame-level rights fees (as the generally better schedules that Ohio State and Alabama have are tied to them being in the Big Ten and SEC). 20 of the top brands getting together and forming a league, on the other hand, *is* a massive revenue generator compared to being a member of the Big Ten or SEC.

Now, if the top 20 brands all decide to go independent and then all happen to play each other, then that’s a de facto Super League. Whether all 20 of those schools are prevented from pooling their media rights together in a way that wouldn’t be the case if they formed a conference is a grey area, although from a pure media rights standpoint, it’s a distinction without a difference.

The main issues with being a confederation of independents as opposed to an actual conference may be less about media rights and more about governance. Independence is great because there are no rules for me, but that also means that there are no rules for thee. Look at the litigation that the SEC and LSU are still going through - even Texas and Alabama don’t want to be playing against an LSU team that has certain types of players. We kind of give short shrift the governance piece a lot, but much like mergers and acquisitions, there are economics of scale and direct enforcement mechanism when there is a coordinated and concentrated group that are signed onto same by-laws that is simply impossible when that same group is subject to just a strict business arrangement for media rights.

I think the governance piece is underrated by a lot of fans. It’s something that is necessary and all schools want (or at least say that they want) but everyone hates doing it. That’s a large reason why the NCAA itself still exists. The Big Ten and SEC could theoretically just separate from the NCAA and create their own governance structure (and that has been suggested many times on this forum), but that require recreating all of the governance and administrative functions that the NCAA had before… and that both SUCKS in practice and, quite importantly, costs a lot of money to implement. Even the wealthiest conferences don’t want to be spending their money on hiring more governance and administrative officials - that’s exactly what they want to outsource.

Circling back, it’s another reason why the CFA - which did aggregate the media rights of many then-independents - ultimately went away. It was a pure media contract. That was all that bound those schools together. In essence, the schools were “dating” each other, but none of them were “married” to each other in the way that they would be in a conference or even under the NCAA. Now, we can say that a conference today is really just a reflection of its media contract, but there are still a lot more obligations when you sign onto the by-laws of an entity that go far beyond a media deal where you are really married to that organization legally. 16 independents can’t do a thing about LSU whereas the SEC with 16 members can actually do quite a bit to LSU.

Maximizing income in capitalism actually *does* require rule of law. Anarchy can temporarily make a few people more money, but ultimately it depresses the economy overall because stability of income requires, well, stability or at least working from certain rules. Asking independents to get together and agree on certain things but try to avoid being a conference is sort of attempting to have “coordinated anarchy” and that is an oxymoron at it’s core where it is very difficult to last beyond a temporary period (see the CFA era for college football). That’s more psychological than it is legal or even financial. Heck, to circle it back, the whole reason why Notre Dame is still independent is *psychological* (how it sees its identity) than it is financial.

Can we list TV/conference payouts for each to compare, instead of blanket statements about revenue?

I will start. ND gets:

$50 million a year from NBC
$18 million a year from the ACC.

So, around $68 million a year in TV/conference revenue, not total revenue.

ND made $289 million in total revenue last year, ranking #3 in the country.

ND was #1 in total football revenues.

What does the average Big Ten school make in TV revenue?

Total average revenue?

The SEC?

ACC?

Big 12?

Anyone have all of the numbers?

Yes media revenue is only part of the pie. The argument is schools like Notre Dame are leaving additional money on the table.

The tradeoff is you might see that negatively affect NIL in their specific case. ND as we know, as a special place in their heart of Independence. More power to ‘em, I always say!

(10-23-2026 06:23 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 10:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 08:36 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:45 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:39 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  NCAA ban on single sport FBS football conferences plus federal anti-trust issues with independent schools pooling media rights. I had a Thought Patrol on northern schools doing this last offseason and that was the ultimate answer. I suppose schools could try to not pool media rights but if they don't the networks will rip them apart. These "lesser blue bloods" like FSU and Clemson will never be able to get ND style deals because they don't have the ND fanbase's size or wealth. At best they get something equivalent to a little more than a maximum ACC share but with a miserable streaming deal that would see them off of America's televisions and out of America's thoughts.

You’ve hit on a Thought Patrol I’ve had for years: why are there ridiculous rules on pooling rights? Why can a conference of upwards into the 20’s pool rights, but a league of independents can’t? It’s absurd. Release the rights! Create a super bundle while maintaining conference membership. Use OOC games to schedule the big dawgs in the super bundle.

Well, imagine if the local plumbing companies did that... For pro sports, of course, they are only allowed to do this because of the Sports Broadcasting Act and MLS's single ownership structure. Maybe the actual answer is that conference rights are an anti-trust violation that schools have gotten away with for the past 40 years.

Conferences have never been a significant part of the marketplace. CFA was pretty significant and nobody challenged it. But nobody was forced into it. It was voluntary. And then it broke apart with first Notre Dame and then everyone else leaving. Maybe the SEC and Big Ten are getting significant, but on the other hand, nobody is impairing the other conferences from getting TV contracts.

Conferences have been an extremely significant part of the media landscape since the 80’s. I don’t understand how anyone can deny that.

What started as administrative offices that handled rules, refs, and scheduling have turned into brands. Brands that are now being sponsored by other brands!

The B1G and SEC have caused significant disadvantages around CFB via their hostile takeover. They’ve decreased value of other conferences to the point university presidents are classifying conferences in monetary tiers which hold specific voting power. Meanwhile there are silly restrictions around any other form of media bundling outside the conference structure. That looks like a market takeover to me.*

I feel like there is a pretty strong case being built here.




*Insert predictable “ACC dId It ToO So Ur pOiNt InVaLiD!”

Doesn’t mean I EVER supported it personally. I didn’t.

Nonsense. Everyone is making more money than ever. It’s just that the P2 are growing faster.

The insurance concept is a big factor, not just market power that makes conferences more valuable. When you buy the rights of 18, your value is not as variable year by year as when you buy one. There’s far less risk to the media company.

(10-23-2026 10:31 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-23-2026 06:23 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 10:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 08:36 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:45 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  You’ve hit on a Thought Patrol I’ve had for years: why are there ridiculous rules on pooling rights? Why can a conference of upwards into the 20’s pool rights, but a league of independents can’t? It’s absurd. Release the rights! Create a super bundle while maintaining conference membership. Use OOC games to schedule the big dawgs in the super bundle.

Well, imagine if the local plumbing companies did that... For pro sports, of course, they are only allowed to do this because of the Sports Broadcasting Act and MLS's single ownership structure. Maybe the actual answer is that conference rights are an anti-trust violation that schools have gotten away with for the past 40 years.

Conferences have never been a significant part of the marketplace. CFA was pretty significant and nobody challenged it. But nobody was forced into it. It was voluntary. And then it broke apart with first Notre Dame and then everyone else leaving. Maybe the SEC and Big Ten are getting significant, but on the other hand, nobody is impairing the other conferences from getting TV contracts.

Conferences have been an extremely significant part of the media landscape since the 80’s. I don’t understand how anyone can deny that.

What started as administrative offices that handled rules, refs, and scheduling have turned into brands. Brands that are now being sponsored by other brands!

The B1G and SEC have caused significant disadvantages around CFB via their hostile takeover. They’ve decreased value of other conferences to the point university presidents are classifying conferences in monetary tiers which hold specific voting power. Meanwhile there are silly restrictions around any other form of media bundling outside the conference structure. That looks like a market takeover to me.*

I feel like there is a pretty strong case being built here.




*Insert predictable “ACC dId It ToO So Ur pOiNt InVaLiD!”

Doesn’t mean I EVER supported it personally. I didn’t.

Nonsense. Everyone is making more money than ever. It’s just that the P2 are growing faster.

It's not nonsense. The B1G and SEC have the final say in the CFP, yet that is what every FBS school is vying for. The only reason they wield more power is due to their media bundling.

(10-23-2026 11:12 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-23-2026 10:31 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-23-2026 06:23 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 10:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 08:36 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  Well, imagine if the local plumbing companies did that... For pro sports, of course, they are only allowed to do this because of the Sports Broadcasting Act and MLS's single ownership structure. Maybe the actual answer is that conference rights are an anti-trust violation that schools have gotten away with for the past 40 years.

Conferences have never been a significant part of the marketplace. CFA was pretty significant and nobody challenged it. But nobody was forced into it. It was voluntary. And then it broke apart with first Notre Dame and then everyone else leaving. Maybe the SEC and Big Ten are getting significant, but on the other hand, nobody is impairing the other conferences from getting TV contracts.

Conferences have been an extremely significant part of the media landscape since the 80’s. I don’t understand how anyone can deny that.

What started as administrative offices that handled rules, refs, and scheduling have turned into brands. Brands that are now being sponsored by other brands!

The B1G and SEC have caused significant disadvantages around CFB via their hostile takeover. They’ve decreased value of other conferences to the point university presidents are classifying conferences in monetary tiers which hold specific voting power. Meanwhile there are silly restrictions around any other form of media bundling outside the conference structure. That looks like a market takeover to me.*

I feel like there is a pretty strong case being built here.




*Insert predictable “ACC dId It ToO So Ur pOiNt InVaLiD!”

Doesn’t mean I EVER supported it personally. I didn’t.

Nonsense. Everyone is making more money than ever. It’s just that the P2 are growing faster.

It's not nonsense. The B1G and SEC have the final say in the CFP, yet that is what every FBS school is vying for. The only reason they wield more power is due to their media bundling.

They haven’t disadvantaged anyone.

(10-23-2026 08:12 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:45 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 06:39 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:28 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:20 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The PCSA may actually cause a super league by accident. If the conferences are capped at 20 and UNC, Miami, Florida State, and Clemson go independent and it is successful, what’s is to stop Ohio State and Michigan to do it if they can find an Olympic sports home.

Sure. What is to stop either from deciding they are better off with ND and those four as regulars on their football schedule over some of the teams they play now?

NCAA ban on single sport FBS football conferences plus federal anti-trust issues with independent schools pooling media rights. I had a Thought Patrol on northern schools doing this last offseason and that was the ultimate answer. I suppose schools could try to not pool media rights but if they don't the networks will rip them apart. These "lesser blue bloods" like FSU and Clemson will never be able to get ND style deals because they don't have the ND fanbase's size or wealth. At best they get something equivalent to a little more than a maximum ACC share but with a miserable streaming deal that would see them off of America's televisions and out of America's thoughts.

You’ve hit on a Thought Patrol I’ve had for years: why are there ridiculous rules on pooling rights? Why can a conference of upwards into the 20’s pool rights, but a league of independents can’t? It’s absurd. Release the rights! Create a super bundle while maintaining conference membership. Use OOC games to schedule the big dawgs in the super bundle.

There’s not necessarily a rule on independents pooling media rights. It’s more about the marketplace and what’s the most lucrative option for the greatest number of schools, which is why independents eventually evaporated down to Notre Dame (by choice) and UConn (sort of forced into it if it wanted Big East basketball. The old College Football Association did pool the rights of independents (among others) before. Notre Dame makes more than the ACC schools, but even as a school with arguably the most nationalized fan base, it still makes less than the average Big Ten school. You can set up the greatest schedule ever, but if you’re independent, you’re still only selling the rights to *your* home games.

That’s why I’ve never bought true Notre Dame-style independence as a viable threat: if ND can’t make more than an aggregated Big Ten and SEC package, then realistically no one can. This makes sense with basic economics: the fewer sellers selling a product on a marketplace gives those sellers more pricing power. The Big Ten as an aggregate has more pricing power than if the 18 members went out and individually sold their media rights, to the point where the additional value of that aggregation is so overwhelming that Purdue makes more media money than Notre Dame down the road. That’s why antitrust law exists in the first place: it’s a basic truism that concentrating sellers into one entity drives up prices.

The Super League is what has always been the real threat. Even Ohio State and Alabama can’t really expect much different than Notre Dame-level rights fees (as the generally better schedules that Ohio State and Alabama have are tied to them being in the Big Ten and SEC). 20 of the top brands getting together and forming a league, on the other hand, *is* a massive revenue generator compared to being a member of the Big Ten or SEC.

Now, if the top 20 brands all decide to go independent and then all happen to play each other, then that’s a de facto Super League. Whether all 20 of those schools are prevented from pooling their media rights together in a way that wouldn’t be the case if they formed a conference is a grey area, although from a pure media rights standpoint, it’s a distinction without a difference.

The main issues with being a confederation of independents as opposed to an actual conference may be less about media rights and more about governance. Independence is great because there are no rules for me, but that also means that there are no rules for thee. Look at the litigation that the SEC and LSU are still going through - even Texas and Alabama don’t want to be playing against an LSU team that has certain types of players. We kind of give short shrift the governance piece a lot, but much like mergers and acquisitions, there are economics of scale and direct enforcement mechanism when there is a coordinated and concentrated group that are signed onto same by-laws that is simply impossible when that same group is subject to just a strict business arrangement for media rights.

I think the governance piece is underrated by a lot of fans. It’s something that is necessary and all schools want (or at least say that they want) but everyone hates doing it. That’s a large reason why the NCAA itself still exists. The Big Ten and SEC could theoretically just separate from the NCAA and create their own governance structure (and that has been suggested many times on this forum), but that require recreating all of the governance and administrative functions that the NCAA had before… and that both SUCKS in practice and, quite importantly, costs a lot of money to implement. Even the wealthiest conferences don’t want to be spending their money on hiring more governance and administrative officials - that’s exactly what they want to outsource.

Circling back, it’s another reason why the CFA - which did aggregate the media rights of many then-independents - ultimately went away. It was a pure media contract. That was all that bound those schools together. In essence, the schools were “dating” each other, but none of them were “married” to each other in the way that they would be in a conference or even under the NCAA. Now, we can say that a conference today is really just a reflection of its media contract, but there are still a lot more obligations when you sign onto the by-laws of an entity that go far beyond a media deal where you are really married to that organization legally. 16 independents can’t do a thing about LSU whereas the SEC with 16 members can actually do quite a bit to LSU.

Maximizing income in capitalism actually *does* require rule of law. Anarchy can temporarily make a few people more money, but ultimately it depresses the economy overall because stability of income requires, well, stability or at least working from certain rules. Asking independents to get together and agree on certain things but try to avoid being a conference is sort of attempting to have “coordinated anarchy” and that is an oxymoron at it’s core where it is very difficult to last beyond a temporary period (see the CFA era for college football). That’s more psychological than it is legal or even financial. Heck, to circle it back, the whole reason why Notre Dame is still independent is *psychological* (how it sees its identity) than it is financial.

And yet, although ND earns less in media revenue than Big Ten conference members, that psychological factor enables the overall revenue, which includes donations, to total $289M, among the very highest of all schools. Other schools might try to follow that model, but that has become part of Notre Dame's DNA.

Georgetown Voice
‘The Protect College Sports Act: from what, and for whom?’

The Protect College Sports Act of 2026 (PCSA) looks “to bring order to the chaos,” but critics argue that it could give universities and the NCAA more unchecked control over student-athletes. The Voice looked into the PCSA, the debates around it, and how its regulations may impact student-athletes at Georgetown and beyond.
....
In the PCSA, Congress affords the NCAA antitrust protection without requiring rules to be negotiated with athletes in a collective bargaining process. Unlike in major league sports, student-athletes do not have the chance to form a players’ union or negotiate for their interests.
....
https://georgetownvoice.com/2026/10/26/t...-for-whom/