(10-03-2026 02:55 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:32 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  It’s possible that the cap won’t be raised but that the 3-year indy requirement will be removed. That’s what I think the most likely outcome is.

I don’t know why UNC and the others signed off on this recommendation. My suspicions are that UNC is worried that it can’t untangle itself from NCSU due to politics and that they know they are stuck unless they can drag them along. This, or it’s all for show; appearing to make an effort pleases the casual fan and some of the donors who are supportive of such a move.

FSU, Clemson and Miami? I’m clueless. All three are desirable targets and none have others they might be forced to drag along.

Another possibility is this: the ACC is looking to expand and would like to go to 22 members.

Could be that, N-Low. But I also wonder if UNC would like to continue to be aligned with Duke.

What I’m about to state will probably upset some but it’s the truth: UNC needs Duke more than Duke needs UNC. This goes for athletics and for academics.

In fairness, based on what I see at least once weekly the rivalry between Duke and UNC matters much more to UNC than vice versa.

Edited to add: much of this can be explained by the fact that around 63% of Duke’s enrollment is made up of graduate students, many of whom brought with them their athletic allegiance to the school they got their undergrad degrees from (if they even care about sports at all).

(10-03-2026 06:39 PM)mj4life Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:32 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  It’s possible that the cap won’t be raised but that the 3-year indy requirement will be removed. That’s what I think the most likely outcome is.

I don’t know why UNC and the others signed off on this recommendation. My suspicions are that UNC is worried that it can’t untangle itself from NCSU due to politics and that they know they are stuck unless they can drag them along. This, or it’s all for show; appearing to make an effort pleases the casual fan and some of the donors who are supportive of such a move.

FSU, Clemson and Miami? I’m clueless. All three are desirable targets and none have others they might be forced to drag along.

Another possibility is this: the ACC is looking to expand and would like to go to 22 members.

Can't speak for the others but I'm sure Carolina wants as many options as possible. State politics could also be in play. Carolina has a lot of moving parts, new arena,North campus expansion,possible engineering school, undergrad expansion, NC Children's hospital campus(with Duke) etc

Good points, all. I doubt that UNC will get the engineering program anytime soon but the NC Children’s Hospital is a huge deal.

(10-03-2026 10:44 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:32 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  It’s possible that the cap won’t be raised but that the 3-year indy requirement will be removed. That’s what I think the most likely outcome is.

I don’t know why UNC and the others signed off on this recommendation. My suspicions are that UNC is worried that it can’t untangle itself from NCSU due to politics and that they know they are stuck unless they can drag them along. This, or it’s all for show; appearing to make an effort pleases the casual fan and some of the donors who are supportive of such a move.

FSU, Clemson and Miami? I’m clueless. All three are desirable targets and none have others they might be forced to drag along.

Another possibility is this: the ACC is looking to expand and would like to go to 22 members.

All these schools have old friends they want to bring along if they can.

Of the four, North Carolina has the most incentive to make some more room.

I’d expect Florida State and Miami do want to strengthen their mutual positions. They each have an interest in ensuring that P2 leagues, should they be interested in both, are not in a position where they feel forced to choose only one.

__

Do they, though? What old friends would the Florida schools want to bring, other than eachother? Who does Clemson want to bring? Is the answer to both Notre Dame? I'd argue North Carolina has a much more compelling case to want to bring not just Duke but also NCST and Virginia. Though they only really get to push a single one at 22 and likely don't get to make any demands at all at 20.

(10-04-2026 12:18 AM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 10:44 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:32 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  It’s possible that the cap won’t be raised but that the 3-year indy requirement will be removed. That’s what I think the most likely outcome is.

I don’t know why UNC and the others signed off on this recommendation. My suspicions are that UNC is worried that it can’t untangle itself from NCSU due to politics and that they know they are stuck unless they can drag them along. This, or it’s all for show; appearing to make an effort pleases the casual fan and some of the donors who are supportive of such a move.

FSU, Clemson and Miami? I’m clueless. All three are desirable targets and none have others they might be forced to drag along.

Another possibility is this: the ACC is looking to expand and would like to go to 22 members.

All these schools have old friends they want to bring along if they can.

Of the four, North Carolina has the most incentive to make some more room.

I’d expect Florida State and Miami do want to strengthen their mutual positions. They each have an interest in ensuring that P2 leagues, should they be interested in both, are not in a position where they feel forced to choose only one.

__

Do they, though? What old friends would the Florida schools want to bring, other than eachother? Who does Clemson want to bring? Is the answer to both Notre Dame? I'd argue North Carolina has a much more compelling case to want to bring not just Duke but also NCST and Virginia. Though they only really get to push a single one at 22 and likely don't get to make any demands at all at 20.

While prudent advocacy is acceptable, I doubt any SEC candidate gets to make any demands.

I think schools like Clemson should be legitimately concerned they might not make it at 20 and 22 provides them cushion.

If football isn't national title contender worthy (and there's no signs of that coming back any time soon), what does Clemson give you moving forward? They're going to play South Carolina at the end of the year regardless.

UNC would be good with 20, but they also want to be able to tell their friends they advocated for a higher cap so they could join with them. "Demanding" they want 22 allows them to say, "Look at the paper trail. We tried. It wasn't our call that you were left behind."

(10-04-2026 07:02 AM)Jhawkinva Wrote:  UNC would be good with 20, but they also want to be able to tell their friends they advocated for a higher cap so they could join with them. "Demanding" they want 22 allows them to say, "Look at the paper trail. We tried. It wasn't our call that you were left behind."

Yes, this is what I've been saying.

(10-04-2026 07:02 AM)Jhawkinva Wrote:  I think schools like Clemson should be legitimately concerned they might not make it at 20 and 22 provides them cushion.

If football isn't national title contender worthy (and there's no signs of that coming back any time soon), what does Clemson give you moving forward? They're going to play South Carolina at the end of the year regardless.

UNC would be good with 20, but they also want to be able to tell their friends they advocated for a higher cap so they could join with them. "Demanding" they want 22 allows them to say, "Look at the paper trail. We tried. It wasn't our call that you were left behind."

The main thing is the concern that the Big Ten may always keep a spot for Notre Dame. That may or may not be true, but the risk is out there where any de facto cap for the Big Ten is in reality one or two schools lower than the actual cap (saving a spot for ND and/or not wanting to have an odd number of members). So, the cap going to 20 may still not be enough to spur Big Ten expansion, which in turn lessens the urgency for SEC expansion. Furthermore, even with the SEC not having an ND equivalent on the sidelines, there’s also a long-term planning aspect that a league doesn’t want to foreclose their ability to expand forever, either, so they may still also keep 1 or 2 spots open. A lot of us may be misguided that these conferences will automatically expand to whatever the cap number might be and I don’t think that’s true - keeping a 1 or 2 spots open is probably how both the Big Ten and SEC would want to approach things.

The cap going to 22 at least gives the B1G and SEC that relief valve to go to 20 and then still preserve future flexibility (as you never know what the future holds).

(10-03-2026 10:44 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:55 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:32 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  It’s possible that the cap won’t be raised but that the 3-year indy requirement will be removed. That’s what I think the most likely outcome is.

I don’t know why UNC and the others signed off on this recommendation. My suspicions are that UNC is worried that it can’t untangle itself from NCSU due to politics and that they know they are stuck unless they can drag them along. This, or it’s all for show; appearing to make an effort pleases the casual fan and some of the donors who are supportive of such a move.

FSU, Clemson and Miami? I’m clueless. All three are desirable targets and none have others they might be forced to drag along.

Another possibility is this: the ACC is looking to expand and would like to go to 22 members.

Could be that, N-Low. But I also wonder if UNC would like to continue to be aligned with Duke.

What I’m about to state will probably upset some but it’s the truth: UNC needs Duke more than Duke needs UNC. This goes for athletics and for academics.

In fairness, based on what I see at least once weekly the rivalry between Duke and UNC matters much more to UNC than vice versa.

Edited to add: much of this can be explained by the fact that around 63% of Duke’s enrollment is made up of graduate students, many of whom brought with them their athletic allegiance to the school they got their undergrad degrees from (if they even care about sports at all).

I do believe that Duke/UNC dynamic is needed by both but definitely understand your point. What's also of interest to me is Carolina's new emphasis on undergraduate expansion which has remained mostly flat for years. They have already committed to 5,000 thousand but have also mentioned the possibility of increasing that up to 15,000. If that occurs then Carolina would start to look more like Texas,Florida, Michigan than UVA or Duke

(10-03-2026 10:44 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:55 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:32 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  It’s possible that the cap won’t be raised but that the 3-year indy requirement will be removed. That’s what I think the most likely outcome is.

I don’t know why UNC and the others signed off on this recommendation. My suspicions are that UNC is worried that it can’t untangle itself from NCSU due to politics and that they know they are stuck unless they can drag them along. This, or it’s all for show; appearing to make an effort pleases the casual fan and some of the donors who are supportive of such a move.

FSU, Clemson and Miami? I’m clueless. All three are desirable targets and none have others they might be forced to drag along.

Another possibility is this: the ACC is looking to expand and would like to go to 22 members.

Could be that, N-Low. But I also wonder if UNC would like to continue to be aligned with Duke.

What I’m about to state will probably upset some but it’s the truth: UNC needs Duke more than Duke needs UNC. This goes for athletics and for academics.

In fairness, based on what I see at least once weekly the rivalry between Duke and UNC matters much more to UNC than vice versa.

Edited to add: much of this can be explained by the fact that around 63% of Duke’s enrollment is made up of graduate students, many of whom brought with them their athletic allegiance to the school they got their undergrad degrees from (if they even care about sports at all).

It was almost two years now when a lot of talk was going around about Carolina moving out of the ACC, that Duke's unofficial mouthpiece (Coach K) suggested that Duke would be content to move to the Big East should Carolina move out of the ACC.

Very few people took much notice of that comment, but it showed a willingness on Duke's part to separate from Carolina if the Tar Heels continued to pursue their increased "national" athletic asperations.

(10-04-2026 09:28 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 10:44 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:55 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:32 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  It’s possible that the cap won’t be raised but that the 3-year indy requirement will be removed. That’s what I think the most likely outcome is.

I don’t know why UNC and the others signed off on this recommendation. My suspicions are that UNC is worried that it can’t untangle itself from NCSU due to politics and that they know they are stuck unless they can drag them along. This, or it’s all for show; appearing to make an effort pleases the casual fan and some of the donors who are supportive of such a move.

FSU, Clemson and Miami? I’m clueless. All three are desirable targets and none have others they might be forced to drag along.

Another possibility is this: the ACC is looking to expand and would like to go to 22 members.

Could be that, N-Low. But I also wonder if UNC would like to continue to be aligned with Duke.

What I’m about to state will probably upset some but it’s the truth: UNC needs Duke more than Duke needs UNC. This goes for athletics and for academics.

In fairness, based on what I see at least once weekly the rivalry between Duke and UNC matters much more to UNC than vice versa.

Edited to add: much of this can be explained by the fact that around 63% of Duke’s enrollment is made up of graduate students, many of whom brought with them their athletic allegiance to the school they got their undergrad degrees from (if they even care about sports at all).

I do believe that Duke/UNC dynamic is needed by both but definitely understand your point. What's also of interest to me is Carolina's talking undergraduate expansion which has remained mostly flat for years. They have already committed to 5,000 thousand but have also mentioned the possibility of increasing that up to 15,000. If that occurs then Carolina would start to look more like Texas,Florida, Michigan than UVA or Duke

Almost all of the state flagships in the SEC are expanding undergraduate enrollments. Why? The Boomer die off has begun, the baby bust is hitting, and the implications for the tax bases both Federally and at the State level will indicate austerity in appropriations. There will be continued stress on smaller state and private schools, and transitioning will be considered for turning some of those into specific disciplines like in the days of yore, teaching, nursing, etc. The larger state schools have building programs for housing underway so that the undergraduates of the state will be funneled to them and the tuition they generate can supplement any reduction in apportionments to maintain their research programs during the demographic shift. The advent of A.I. will only complicate matters with regard to the tax base. It's a smart move in advance of a naturally arising demographic problem which will last for about 20 years.

(10-04-2026 02:09 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(10-04-2026 12:18 AM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 10:44 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:32 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  It’s possible that the cap won’t be raised but that the 3-year indy requirement will be removed. That’s what I think the most likely outcome is.

I don’t know why UNC and the others signed off on this recommendation. My suspicions are that UNC is worried that it can’t untangle itself from NCSU due to politics and that they know they are stuck unless they can drag them along. This, or it’s all for show; appearing to make an effort pleases the casual fan and some of the donors who are supportive of such a move.

FSU, Clemson and Miami? I’m clueless. All three are desirable targets and none have others they might be forced to drag along.

Another possibility is this: the ACC is looking to expand and would like to go to 22 members.

All these schools have old friends they want to bring along if they can.

Of the four, North Carolina has the most incentive to make some more room.

I’d expect Florida State and Miami do want to strengthen their mutual positions. They each have an interest in ensuring that P2 leagues, should they be interested in both, are not in a position where they feel forced to choose only one.

__

Do they, though? What old friends would the Florida schools want to bring, other than each other? Who does Clemson want to bring? Is the answer to both Notre Dame? I'd argue North Carolina has a much more compelling case to want to bring not just Duke but also NCST and Virginia. Though they only really get to push a single one at 22 and likely don't get to make any demands at all at 20.

While prudent advocacy is acceptable, I doubt any SEC candidate gets to make any demands.

The sentiment in Chapel Hill is much more divided than what you will read here on this forum or see on YouTube videos. I am led to believe that Carolina could go either way (SEC or B1G) and a lot of the decision would be influenced by what sort of favorable arrangements that could be made.

I would suggest to you that Carolina will have multiple demands met, by the competing parties before a move is made in either direction.

(10-04-2026 09:57 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-04-2026 02:09 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(10-04-2026 12:18 AM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 10:44 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:32 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  It’s possible that the cap won’t be raised but that the 3-year indy requirement will be removed. That’s what I think the most likely outcome is.

I don’t know why UNC and the others signed off on this recommendation. My suspicions are that UNC is worried that it can’t untangle itself from NCSU due to politics and that they know they are stuck unless they can drag them along. This, or it’s all for show; appearing to make an effort pleases the casual fan and some of the donors who are supportive of such a move.

FSU, Clemson and Miami? I’m clueless. All three are desirable targets and none have others they might be forced to drag along.

Another possibility is this: the ACC is looking to expand and would like to go to 22 members.

All these schools have old friends they want to bring along if they can.

Of the four, North Carolina has the most incentive to make some more room.

I’d expect Florida State and Miami do want to strengthen their mutual positions. They each have an interest in ensuring that P2 leagues, should they be interested in both, are not in a position where they feel forced to choose only one.

__

Do they, though? What old friends would the Florida schools want to bring, other than each other? Who does Clemson want to bring? Is the answer to both Notre Dame? I'd argue North Carolina has a much more compelling case to want to bring not just Duke but also NCST and Virginia. Though they only really get to push a single one at 22 and likely don't get to make any demands at all at 20.

While prudent advocacy is acceptable, I doubt any SEC candidate gets to make any demands.

The sentiment in Chapel Hill is much more divided than what you will read here on this forum or see on YouTube videos. I am led to believe that Carolina could go either way (SEC or B1G) and a lot of the decision would be influenced by what sort of favorable arrangements that could be made.

I would suggest to you that Carolina will have multiple demands met, by the competing parties before a move is made in either direction.

The ACC is also already pretty much built exactly to UNC's designs (expect for the last round of expansion, which has worked out okay so far anyway,) its a Texas in the Big XII scenario, so much is right that they might need a little give in order to leave.

(10-04-2026 09:57 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-04-2026 02:09 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(10-04-2026 12:18 AM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 10:44 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:32 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  It’s possible that the cap won’t be raised but that the 3-year indy requirement will be removed. That’s what I think the most likely outcome is.

I don’t know why UNC and the others signed off on this recommendation. My suspicions are that UNC is worried that it can’t untangle itself from NCSU due to politics and that they know they are stuck unless they can drag them along. This, or it’s all for show; appearing to make an effort pleases the casual fan and some of the donors who are supportive of such a move.

FSU, Clemson and Miami? I’m clueless. All three are desirable targets and none have others they might be forced to drag along.

Another possibility is this: the ACC is looking to expand and would like to go to 22 members.

All these schools have old friends they want to bring along if they can.

Of the four, North Carolina has the most incentive to make some more room.

I’d expect Florida State and Miami do want to strengthen their mutual positions. They each have an interest in ensuring that P2 leagues, should they be interested in both, are not in a position where they feel forced to choose only one.

__

Do they, though? What old friends would the Florida schools want to bring, other than each other? Who does Clemson want to bring? Is the answer to both Notre Dame? I'd argue North Carolina has a much more compelling case to want to bring not just Duke but also NCST and Virginia. Though they only really get to push a single one at 22 and likely don't get to make any demands at all at 20.

While prudent advocacy is acceptable, I doubt any SEC candidate gets to make any demands.

The sentiment in Chapel Hill is much more divided than what you will read here on this forum or see on YouTube videos. I am led to believe that Carolina could go either way (SEC or B1G) and a lot of the decision would be influenced by what sort of favorable arrangements that could be made.

I would suggest to you that Carolina will have multiple demands met, by the competing parties before a move is made in either direction.

I don't really think that anything new is being tendered here. Neither do I see a problem for Virginia or Duke with regard to UNC. Beyond that UNC is the one with the dilemma, not the SEC or Big Ten which are focusing on other issues together. There are non-realignment related priorities to be met before any further realignment transpires. The first one is evident prima facia, get the exemption. From there, well, surprises are likely in store for everyone, and they will alter any concepts of leverage held in the past.

(10-03-2026 10:44 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:55 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:32 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  It’s possible that the cap won’t be raised but that the 3-year indy requirement will be removed. That’s what I think the most likely outcome is.

I don’t know why UNC and the others signed off on this recommendation. My suspicions are that UNC is worried that it can’t untangle itself from NCSU due to politics and that they know they are stuck unless they can drag them along. This, or it’s all for show; appearing to make an effort pleases the casual fan and some of the donors who are supportive of such a move.

FSU, Clemson and Miami? I’m clueless. All three are desirable targets and none have others they might be forced to drag along.

Another possibility is this: the ACC is looking to expand and would like to go to 22 members.

Could be that, N-Low. But I also wonder if UNC would like to continue to be aligned with Duke.

What I’m about to state will probably upset some but it’s the truth: UNC needs Duke more than Duke needs UNC. This goes for athletics and for academics.

In fairness, based on what I see at least once weekly the rivalry between Duke and UNC matters much more to UNC than vice versa.

Edited to add: much of this can be explained by the fact that around 63% of Duke’s enrollment is made up of graduate students, many of whom brought with them their athletic allegiance to the school they got their undergrad degrees from (if they even care about sports at all).

My take is that both need each other equally. But your point about Duke grad student population and allegiances ... well made, NLow.

(10-04-2026 09:28 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 10:44 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:55 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:32 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  It’s possible that the cap won’t be raised but that the 3-year indy requirement will be removed. That’s what I think the most likely outcome is.

I don’t know why UNC and the others signed off on this recommendation. My suspicions are that UNC is worried that it can’t untangle itself from NCSU due to politics and that they know they are stuck unless they can drag them along. This, or it’s all for show; appearing to make an effort pleases the casual fan and some of the donors who are supportive of such a move.

FSU, Clemson and Miami? I’m clueless. All three are desirable targets and none have others they might be forced to drag along.

Another possibility is this: the ACC is looking to expand and would like to go to 22 members.

Could be that, N-Low. But I also wonder if UNC would like to continue to be aligned with Duke.

What I’m about to state will probably upset some but it’s the truth: UNC needs Duke more than Duke needs UNC. This goes for athletics and for academics.

In fairness, based on what I see at least once weekly the rivalry between Duke and UNC matters much more to UNC than vice versa.

Edited to add: much of this can be explained by the fact that around 63% of Duke’s enrollment is made up of graduate students, many of whom brought with them their athletic allegiance to the school they got their undergrad degrees from (if they even care about sports at all).

I do believe that Duke/UNC dynamic is needed by both but definitely understand your point. What's also of interest to me is Carolina's new emphasis on undergraduate expansion which has remained mostly flat for years. They have already committed to 5,000 thousand but have also mentioned the possibility of increasing that up to 15,000. If that occurs then Carolina would start to look more like Texas,Florida, Michigan than UVA or Duke

A side note, regarding enrollment expansion: the state (NC) needs to raise the out-of-state enrollment cap.

(10-04-2026 09:40 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 10:44 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:55 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:32 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  It’s possible that the cap won’t be raised but that the 3-year indy requirement will be removed. That’s what I think the most likely outcome is.

I don’t know why UNC and the others signed off on this recommendation. My suspicions are that UNC is worried that it can’t untangle itself from NCSU due to politics and that they know they are stuck unless they can drag them along. This, or it’s all for show; appearing to make an effort pleases the casual fan and some of the donors who are supportive of such a move.

FSU, Clemson and Miami? I’m clueless. All three are desirable targets and none have others they might be forced to drag along.

Another possibility is this: the ACC is looking to expand and would like to go to 22 members.

Could be that, N-Low. But I also wonder if UNC would like to continue to be aligned with Duke.

What I’m about to state will probably upset some but it’s the truth: UNC needs Duke more than Duke needs UNC. This goes for athletics and for academics.

In fairness, based on what I see at least once weekly the rivalry between Duke and UNC matters much more to UNC than vice versa.

Edited to add: much of this can be explained by the fact that around 63% of Duke’s enrollment is made up of graduate students, many of whom brought with them their athletic allegiance to the school they got their undergrad degrees from (if they even care about sports at all).

It was almost two years now when a lot of talk was going around about Carolina moving out of the ACC, that Duke's unofficial mouthpiece (Coach K) suggested that Duke would be content to move to the Big East should Carolina move out of the ACC.

Very few people took much notice of that comment, but it showed a willingness on Duke's part to separate from Carolina if the Tar Heels continued to pursue their increased "national" athletic asperations.

I hope UNC and Duke can remain aligned (either in the Big Ten or SEC), X. But I'm not expecting it. If it happens ... great.

By the way, we have the names of the congressmen who sent the letter now. 11 Floridians and 4 each from both of the Carolinas.

https://dunn.house.gov/news/documentsing...entID=531

And here they are visualized on a map (they're the lime green ones,) with the noted caveat that NC's district lines are inaccurate because I couldn't find a suitably sized one with the 2024 lines but without color gradients. Also note that they're all Republicans but only because it was a Republican letter, there could well be Democrats who agree with it.



Its an interesting map to me. You have all of upland South Carolina and two Miami districts but then Central Florida is all in on it while northern Florida seems to be sitting it out. And then some interest in central North Carolina but not overwhelmingly so.

(10-04-2026 10:20 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 10:44 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:55 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 02:32 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  It’s possible that the cap won’t be raised but that the 3-year indy requirement will be removed. That’s what I think the most likely outcome is.

I don’t know why UNC and the others signed off on this recommendation. My suspicions are that UNC is worried that it can’t untangle itself from NCSU due to politics and that they know they are stuck unless they can drag them along. This, or it’s all for show; appearing to make an effort pleases the casual fan and some of the donors who are supportive of such a move.

FSU, Clemson and Miami? I’m clueless. All three are desirable targets and none have others they might be forced to drag along.

Another possibility is this: the ACC is looking to expand and would like to go to 22 members.

Could be that, N-Low. But I also wonder if UNC would like to continue to be aligned with Duke.

What I’m about to state will probably upset some but it’s the truth: UNC needs Duke more than Duke needs UNC. This goes for athletics and for academics.

In fairness, based on what I see at least once weekly the rivalry between Duke and UNC matters much more to UNC than vice versa.

Edited to add: much of this can be explained by the fact that around 63% of Duke’s enrollment is made up of graduate students, many of whom brought with them their athletic allegiance to the school they got their undergrad degrees from (if they even care about sports at all).

Points well made, N-Low.

One of the main reasons that the North Carolina legislature approved a 5,000 increase in UG enrollment at Chapel Hill was to avoid the the situation found at Duke. More graduate enrollment than UG.

(10-04-2026 10:07 AM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-04-2026 09:57 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-04-2026 02:09 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(10-04-2026 12:18 AM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-03-2026 10:44 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  All these schools have old friends they want to bring along if they can.

Of the four, North Carolina has the most incentive to make some more room.

I’d expect Florida State and Miami do want to strengthen their mutual positions. They each have an interest in ensuring that P2 leagues, should they be interested in both, are not in a position where they feel forced to choose only one.

__

Do they, though? What old friends would the Florida schools want to bring, other than each other? Who does Clemson want to bring? Is the answer to both Notre Dame? I'd argue North Carolina has a much more compelling case to want to bring not just Duke but also NCST and Virginia. Though they only really get to push a single one at 22 and likely don't get to make any demands at all at 20.

While prudent advocacy is acceptable, I doubt any SEC candidate gets to make any demands.

The sentiment in Chapel Hill is much more divided than what you will read here on this forum or see on YouTube videos. I am led to believe that Carolina could go either way (SEC or B1G) and a lot of the decision would be influenced by what sort of favorable arrangements that could be made.

I would suggest to you that Carolina will have multiple demands met, by the competing parties before a move is made in either direction.

The ACC is also already pretty much built exactly to UNC's designs (expect for the last round of expansion, which has worked out okay so far anyway,) its a Texas in the Big XII scenario, so much is right that they might need a little give in order to leave.

That’s absolutely untrue. Carolina never wanted more than Miami in 2003. Everything after that was not desired.

I think the number ends up at 21 and the independence clause goes away.

That is effectively a cap for both leagues at 20 with a ND spot.

SEC: UNC, UVA, Florida State, Duke
Big Ten: Miami, Stanford


I actually think Duke may grab the last spot instead of Clemson. I'm starting to turn on this one.

As a UConn fan, I hate to say this but Duke has the #1 college basketball brand (we may actually be #2 right now), and that may allow them to squeak in.