(04-01-2026 10:19 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:06 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  In 2025 we imported 256 million barrels of oil and exported 354 million barrels of oil. Figure it out and give them the middle finger.

Exactly. Not our problem. We fixed the big issue, their march toward nukes.

If they want the Strait open, go take it, you sissies. Damn, 35 countries can't muster enough firepower to stop Iran from dominating what is supposed to be international waters?

We broke it, we dont fix it, we walk away. Cool cool.

I have to remember that one -- neat argument for covering over anytime my actions create a deep, massive, literally global impact issue.

(04-01-2026 10:31 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:19 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:06 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  In 2025 we imported 256 million barrels of oil and exported 354 million barrels of oil. Figure it out and give them the middle finger.

Exactly. Not our problem. We fixed the big issue, their march toward nukes.

If they want the Strait open, go take it, you sissies. Damn, 35 countries can't muster enough firepower to stop Iran from dominating what is supposed to be international waters?

We broke it, we dont fix it, we walk away. Cool cool.

I have to remember that one -- neat argument for covering over anytime my actions create a deep, massive, literally global impact issue.

Time to let Europe and others fend for themselves. We have been paying for their military protection since WWII. About time we evened the ledger a bit.

Not to mention, no nukes means the danger to them is lessened, just like for us. Sorry your TDS gets in the way so much.

(04-01-2026 09:55 AM)Claw Wrote:  Why not walk away? OUR oil doesn't go through there. As long as Iran doesn't have nuke capability and quits attacking people, leave.

That statement is fundamentally wrong on so many levels. Yes, our oil doesn't go through there per se, but when it's shut down, it effects global inventory, which effects price per barrel, and price of gas per gallon.

We have spent decades building up this global trade which benefits us greatly. Walking away just cedes ownership of the strait over to Iran which will end up screwing us royally. WAY more than oil goes through that strait.

(04-01-2026 10:36 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:31 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:19 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:06 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  In 2025 we imported 256 million barrels of oil and exported 354 million barrels of oil. Figure it out and give them the middle finger.

Exactly. Not our problem. We fixed the big issue, their march toward nukes.

If they want the Strait open, go take it, you sissies. Damn, 35 countries can't muster enough firepower to stop Iran from dominating what is supposed to be international waters?

We broke it, we dont fix it, we walk away. Cool cool.

I have to remember that one -- neat argument for covering over anytime my actions create a deep, massive, literally global impact issue.

Time to let Europe and others fend for themselves. We have been paying for their military protection since WWII. About time we evened the ledger a bit.

Not to mention, no nukes means the danger to them is lessened, just like for us. Sorry your TDS gets in the way so much.

Are we STILL doing this? Lemme guess...you still think Saddam had WMD?

(04-01-2026 10:36 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:31 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:19 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:06 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  In 2025 we imported 256 million barrels of oil and exported 354 million barrels of oil. Figure it out and give them the middle finger.

Exactly. Not our problem. We fixed the big issue, their march toward nukes.

If they want the Strait open, go take it, you sissies. Damn, 35 countries can't muster enough firepower to stop Iran from dominating what is supposed to be international waters?

We broke it, we dont fix it, we walk away. Cool cool.

I have to remember that one -- neat argument for covering over anytime my actions create a deep, massive, literally global impact issue.

Time to let Europe and others fend for themselves. We have been paying for their military protection since WWII. About time we evened the ledger a bit.

Not to mention, no nukes means the danger to them is lessened, just like for us. Sorry your TDS gets in the way so much.

**squarrrk!!* TDS!!! TDS!!! TSD!!!
**squarrrk!!* Cant let a difference of opinion get by without a stupid attack on the writer
**squarrrk!!* TDS!!! TDS!!! TSD!!!
**squarrrk!!* Polly want a cracker!!!]

Dude, try some new lines for once.

Trump fked up *the most important* trade corridor in the world's history. Id suggest just accept it.

Now.... the rabble say its *everyone else's* problem.

Neat ****.

Where I stand, if you break it, you fix it. Guess not in your world. Cool cool.

(03-31-2026 10:45 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Our job is twofold: Eliminate the ability of the Iranians to produce a nuke & Regime Change (meaning change in relationship from hostile to amicable).

Once those two are accomplished every nation that depends upon oil from that region and needs the straits of Hormuz open needs to contribute to a coalition force that puts enforcement troops into Iran and collectively patrols the straits. Then the nations of the region who trade in oil and gas need sign a treaty to that effect and that legal action will give teeth to the coalition of forces which keep it open for trade.

Quote:RUBIO: It wasn't just about defending Europe. I said it also allowed us to have military bases in Europe that allowed us to project power into different parts of the world when our national security was threatened. If now, we have reached a point where the NATO alliance means we can't use those bases, that in fact, that we can no longer use those bases to defend America's interests, then NATO's a one-way street.

That NATO is simply about us having troops in Europe to defend Europe, but when we need their help, not their help, we're not asking them to conduct airstrikes, when we need them to allow us to use their military bases, their answer is no? Then why are we in NATO? You have to ask that question. Why do we have billions and billions of dollars, hundreds of billions of dollars over the years, trillions of dollars, and all of these American forces stationed in the region if we can only use, in our time of need, we're not going to be allowed to use those bases?

So I think there's no doubt, unfortunately, after this conflict is concluded, we are going to have to reexamine that relationship, we are going to have to reexamine the value of NATO and that alliance. Ultimately, that's a decision for the president to make.

We shouldn't be paying more than 60% of NATO while others contribute far less. Reverse that, and more.

With delicious irony…

“America’s Best New Weapon in Iran Is a Drone Inspired by Iran
Reverse-engineering existing technology yielded ‘the Toyota Corolla of drones’—cheap, easy to manufacture and devastatingly effective”

I commend the military and the Biden Administration for starting the program and the Trump Administration for removing red tape to designed and built within two years. Outstanding.
https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-se...ed?mod=mhp

(04-01-2026 10:31 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:19 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:06 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  In 2025 we imported 256 million barrels of oil and exported 354 million barrels of oil. Figure it out and give them the middle finger.

Exactly. Not our problem. We fixed the big issue, their march toward nukes.

If they want the Strait open, go take it, you sissies. Damn, 35 countries can't muster enough firepower to stop Iran from dominating what is supposed to be international waters?

We broke it, we dont fix it, we walk away. Cool cool.

I have to remember that one -- neat argument for covering over anytime my actions create a deep, massive, literally global impact issue.

Its Iran blocking the Gulf---not us. Its Iran demanding full control over the Gulf and its Iran demanding a fee for passage. Freedom of navigation is not a real thing. It only exists for shipping because various navies have established and enforced that right (in the past---that direct protection only was provided for their own merchant ships). If your not willing to enforce freedom of the seas---then that right may or may not exist---that right would then be dependent on how aggressive other nations or non-state actors wish to be.

Since the end of WWII the US has defended freedom of navigation on the high seas for everyone at no cost to anyone. We are now 38 trillion indebt. Its time for other nations to pick up part of the tab, or they can do it themselves if they dont want to lend a hand (or they can just pay the Iranian toll, which is how many nations used to handle things like the Barbary Pirates back when this type of thing was more common). Anyone see Russia concerned about how their actions in Ukraine affect the world fuel, steel, fertilizer, neon, or wheat markets? That Russian indifference is how the world REALLY works outside of the American Rules Based Order bubble of defense paid for by a US tax payer who is no longer able to carry the burden. The last 80 years or so is an anomaly. There is a reason no nation in history has ever taxed itself so heavily to create the most powerful military in the world just to maintain the status quo---rather than using it to create an ever-expanding empire for themselves to lord over.

I’ve read the Iranians wish to charge a fee (actually a tribute) for safe passage. It is a non-starter for America. Our infant navy - by force of arms - stopped tributes in 1801 and we will not start anew with the most powerful military in the world.

It's Iran doing the illegal stuff, not us. Those are international waters. Duh.

"Oh no, we forced them to break the law b/c we bombed them to stop them from building nukes! It's our fault!"

You guys with TDS think everything is our fault with Trump as president.

(04-01-2026 12:34 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  With delicious irony…

“America’s Best New Weapon in Iran Is a Drone Inspired by Iran
Reverse-engineering existing technology yielded ‘the Toyota Corolla of drones’—cheap, easy to manufacture and devastatingly effective”

I commend the military and the Biden Administration for starting the program and the Trump Administration for removing red tape to designed and built within two years. Outstanding.
https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-se...ed?mod=mhp

Only in the US defense industry would we be patting ourselves on the back for taking 2 years to copy a weapon that already exists and we have a copy of----that is made from common inexpensive off the shelf parts anyone can buy. I'll bet our version no doubt costs more than everyone else's too. The Ukrainians are literally developing new weapons from scratch and fielding them in less than a year---sometimes they do it in weeks. There was a time we knew how to develop military equipment that fast too.

(04-01-2026 12:59 PM)TripleA Wrote:  It's Iran doing the illegal stuff, not us. Those are international waters. Duh.

"Oh no, we forced them to break the law b/c we bombed them to stop them from building nukes! It's our fault!"

You guys with TDS think everything is our fault with Trump as president.

"Blame America First" is one of their favorite mantras.

(04-01-2026 12:57 PM)TripleA Wrote:  It's Iran doing the illegal stuff, not us. Those are international waters. Duh.

Care to point out any declaration of war by us? If you are going to squawk about 'illegal stuff' as the predicate, that seems to be the proper predicate. I seem to have missed that in passing......

And no -- the Strait is *not* international waters. They are national waters of Iran, UAE, and three of four other countries.

And finally, whether the use of the military in this deep fashion (with no formal basis for it or authorization, that I can tell) is 'legal' or not -- when a country gets kneed in the groin (as what we did to Iran at the outset -- eliminating their sovereign leaders and etc.) -- yeah, bummer, expect them to shut the Strait down. With or without legal predicate. Not like we had such stunning legal predicate at the beginning of our special military operation *of choice*. Yeah, they are going to sucker punch however and to whomever they can as a matter of getting smacked in the face as they did.

Given *that* predicate, dont act so whiny and full of umbrage that 'Iran shut down an INTERNATIONAL (not) waterway.'. Yeah, how fing dare a nation that got leaderhip decapitated do such a thing. The sheer horror and umbrage. Lolz.

It's actual territorial waters of Iran and Oman, and international law requires uninterrupted "transit passage." Look it up, Clarence.

Iran often disregards this, asserting control over the narrow waterway despite lacking legal authority to close it.

(04-01-2026 12:44 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:31 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:19 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:06 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  In 2025 we imported 256 million barrels of oil and exported 354 million barrels of oil. Figure it out and give them the middle finger.

Exactly. Not our problem. We fixed the big issue, their march toward nukes.

If they want the Strait open, go take it, you sissies. Damn, 35 countries can't muster enough firepower to stop Iran from dominating what is supposed to be international waters?

We broke it, we dont fix it, we walk away. Cool cool.

I have to remember that one -- neat argument for covering over anytime my actions create a deep, massive, literally global impact issue.

Its Iran blocking the Gulf---not us. Its Iran demanding full control over the Gulf and its Iran demanding a fee for passage. Freedom of navigation is not a real thing. It only exists for shipping because various navies have established and enforced that right (in the past---that direct protection only was provided for their own merchant ships). If your not willing to enforce freedom of the seas---then that right may or may not exist---that right would then be dependent on how aggressive other nations or non-state actors wish to be.

Since the end of WWII the US has defended freedom of navigation on the high seas for everyone at no cost to anyone. We are now 38 trillion indebt. Its time for other nations to pick up part of the tab, or they can do it themselves if they dont want to lend a hand (or they can just pay the Iranian toll, which is how many nations used to handle things like the Barbary Pirates back when this type of thing was more common). Anyone see Russia concerned about how their actions in Ukraine affect the world fuel, steel, fertilizer, neon, or wheat markets? That Russian indifference is how the world REALLY works outside of the American Rules Based Order bubble of defense paid for by a US tax payer who is no longer able to carry the burden. The last 80 years or so is an anomaly. There is a reason no nation in history has ever taxed itself so heavily to create the most powerful military in the world just to maintain the status quo---rather than using it to create an ever-expanding empire for themselves to lord over.

Attack, it was pretty clear that the *first* thing that Iran would do when existentially threatened would be to shut Hormuz down.

We went in with a strike to do just that. And we broke the Strait. For the world mind you.

Now the administration wants *everyone ELSE* to fix what we broke. End of story.

The full cause in fact of Hormuz being shut down is a logical, predictable, and now tangible result of our strike. We. Broke. It. Regardless of anything said above. And regardless of 'how right' we were (or not) to launch a special military operation of choice. We. Broke. It.

Now we are cying for everyone else to fix what we broke. Brilliant.

(04-01-2026 01:06 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 12:57 PM)TripleA Wrote:  It's Iran doing the illegal stuff, not us. Those are international waters. Duh.

Care to point out any declaration of war by us? If you are going to squawk about 'illegal stuff' as the predicate, that seems to be the proper predicate. I seem to have missed that in passing......

And no -- the Strait is *not* international waters. They are national waters of Iran, UAE, and three of four other countries.

And finally, whether the use of the military in this deep fashion (with no formal basis for it or authorization, that I can tell) is 'legal' or not -- when a country gets kneed in the groin (as what we did to Iran at the outset -- eliminating their sovereign leaders and etc.) -- yeah, bummer, expect them to shut the Strait down. With or without legal predicate. Not like we had such stunning legal predicate at the beginning of our special military operation *of choice*. Yeah, they are going to sucker punch however and to whomever they can as a matter of getting smacked in the face as they did.

Given *that* predicate, dont act so whiny and full of umbrage that 'Iran shut down an INTERNATIONAL (not) waterway.'. Yeah, how fing dare a nation that got leaderhip decapitated do such a thing. The sheer horror and umbrage. Lolz.

Thats a lot of words to say TripleA was right. Iran is the one shutting down the strait. The action affects nations not named USA. Frankly, the easiest and safest move for the US would simply be to complete its mission (destroy the nuclear and ballistic missile capabilities as best it can from the air), and then pull back and announce a blockade of the Straight for all Iranian oil. I would also quietly and covertly mine the portion of the Strait that Iran controls ending any blockade value to the current regime. At that point, the goal would be to pressure the Iranian regime to agree to a negotiated settlement where they end all nuclear aspirations (with periodic and unlimited verification allowed), cap ballistic capabilities, end proxy violence, and reopen the strait. In exchange, the US would end all strikes, end its blockade, remove all sanctions against Iran, and use its forces to clear the entire Strait of mines.

(04-01-2026 11:14 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 09:55 AM)Claw Wrote:  Why not walk away? OUR oil doesn't go through there. As long as Iran doesn't have nuke capability and quits attacking people, leave.

That statement is fundamentally wrong on so many levels. Yes, our oil doesn't go through there per se, but when it's shut down, it effects global inventory, which effects price per barrel, and price of gas per gallon.

We have spent decades building up this global trade which benefits us greatly. Walking away just cedes ownership of the strait over to Iran which will end up screwing us royally. WAY more than oil goes through that strait.

If we walk away, Iran will open shipping the next day.

(04-01-2026 01:19 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Frankly, the easiest and safest move for the US would simply be to complete its mission (destroy the nuclear and ballistic missile capabilities as best it can from the air), and then pull back and announce a blockade of the Straight for all Iranian oil.

Yep. Agreed. The problem is the ever changing goals of this administration. Consistency has never been a strong suit.

From the outset -- the Iranian closure of the Hormuz was highly predictable. And when you make it an existential issue for them, that predictable becomes pretty much guaranteed.

And the *very* predictable outcome is just what we are seeing --- coupled with a *lot* of the world accurately depicting us as being the folks who broke the world's most important trade route.

The point is -- we broke it. Now this administration is demanding everyo9ne else clean the shitstorm *he* made. And made in a *voluntary* manner.

(04-01-2026 01:11 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 12:44 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:31 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:19 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:06 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  In 2025 we imported 256 million barrels of oil and exported 354 million barrels of oil. Figure it out and give them the middle finger.

Exactly. Not our problem. We fixed the big issue, their march toward nukes.

If they want the Strait open, go take it, you sissies. Damn, 35 countries can't muster enough firepower to stop Iran from dominating what is supposed to be international waters?

We broke it, we dont fix it, we walk away. Cool cool.

I have to remember that one -- neat argument for covering over anytime my actions create a deep, massive, literally global impact issue.

Its Iran blocking the Gulf---not us. Its Iran demanding full control over the Gulf and its Iran demanding a fee for passage. Freedom of navigation is not a real thing. It only exists for shipping because various navies have established and enforced that right (in the past---that direct protection only was provided for their own merchant ships). If your not willing to enforce freedom of the seas---then that right may or may not exist---that right would then be dependent on how aggressive other nations or non-state actors wish to be.

Since the end of WWII the US has defended freedom of navigation on the high seas for everyone at no cost to anyone. We are now 38 trillion indebt. Its time for other nations to pick up part of the tab, or they can do it themselves if they dont want to lend a hand (or they can just pay the Iranian toll, which is how many nations used to handle things like the Barbary Pirates back when this type of thing was more common). Anyone see Russia concerned about how their actions in Ukraine affect the world fuel, steel, fertilizer, neon, or wheat markets? That Russian indifference is how the world REALLY works outside of the American Rules Based Order bubble of defense paid for by a US tax payer who is no longer able to carry the burden. The last 80 years or so is an anomaly. There is a reason no nation in history has ever taxed itself so heavily to create the most powerful military in the world just to maintain the status quo---rather than using it to create an ever-expanding empire for themselves to lord over.

Attack, it was pretty clear that the *first* thing that Iran would do when existentially threatened would be to shut Hormuz down.

We went in with a strike to do just that. And we broke the Strait. For the world mind you.

Now the administration wants *everyone ELSE* to fix what we broke. End of story.

The full cause in fact of Hormuz being shut down is a logical, predictable, and now tangible result of our strike. We. Broke. It. Regardless of anything said above. And regardless of 'how right' we were (or not) to launch a special military operation of choice. We. Broke. It.

Now we are cying for everyone else to fix what we broke. Brilliant.

lol----Again--patently inaccurate. WE did not break it. Iran--and ONLY Iran--closed it. Our Navy has the ability to militarily close any waterway to merchant shipping anywhere in the world. Were we do so in an attempt to force some nation to change some policy---that closure would be ENTIRELY our fault---and the only way it could be reopened is if WE decide to reopen it or if we are militarily FORCED to reopen the waterway. Virtually nobody---other than perhaps you and whoever was running the USA in this example---would point to whatever nation's conduct America was trying to change with the waterway closure---and say the closure was this other nation's fault. Virtually everyone else would point to the USA as the culprit.

In this instance---Iran closed the Strait. Furthermore---the closure negatively affects virtually every other nation not involved more than the US is affected. We arent really hurt much at all by this action---and the nations that seem unwilling to be involved in re-opening the waterway are hurt quite a bit. My guess is once these other nations feel the pain, they will become much more interested in lending a hand. As I said, I think the best option is to play Iran's asymmetrical game. Simply covertly mine the same path the Iranians are charging a toll to pass through. Once a tanker or two hit mines in that path---then the blockade immediately ceases to aid Iran in any way and instead hurts it biggest booster---China. I believe thats the easiest and safest way to pressure Iran into a negotiated settlement that will reopen the Gulf for safe passage.

(04-01-2026 01:11 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 12:44 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:31 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:19 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-01-2026 10:06 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  In 2025 we imported 256 million barrels of oil and exported 354 million barrels of oil. Figure it out and give them the middle finger.

Exactly. Not our problem. We fixed the big issue, their march toward nukes.

If they want the Strait open, go take it, you sissies. Damn, 35 countries can't muster enough firepower to stop Iran from dominating what is supposed to be international waters?

We broke it, we dont fix it, we walk away. Cool cool.

I have to remember that one -- neat argument for covering over anytime my actions create a deep, massive, literally global impact issue.

Its Iran blocking the Gulf---not us. Its Iran demanding full control over the Gulf and its Iran demanding a fee for passage. Freedom of navigation is not a real thing. It only exists for shipping because various navies have established and enforced that right (in the past---that direct protection only was provided for their own merchant ships). If your not willing to enforce freedom of the seas---then that right may or may not exist---that right would then be dependent on how aggressive other nations or non-state actors wish to be.

Since the end of WWII the US has defended freedom of navigation on the high seas for everyone at no cost to anyone. We are now 38 trillion indebt. Its time for other nations to pick up part of the tab, or they can do it themselves if they dont want to lend a hand (or they can just pay the Iranian toll, which is how many nations used to handle things like the Barbary Pirates back when this type of thing was more common). Anyone see Russia concerned about how their actions in Ukraine affect the world fuel, steel, fertilizer, neon, or wheat markets? That Russian indifference is how the world REALLY works outside of the American Rules Based Order bubble of defense paid for by a US tax payer who is no longer able to carry the burden. The last 80 years or so is an anomaly. There is a reason no nation in history has ever taxed itself so heavily to create the most powerful military in the world just to maintain the status quo---rather than using it to create an ever-expanding empire for themselves to lord over.

Attack, it was pretty clear that the *first* thing that Iran would do when existentially threatened would be to shut Hormuz down.

We went in with a strike to do just that. And we broke the Strait. For the world mind you.

Now the administration wants *everyone ELSE* to fix what we broke. End of story.

The full cause in fact of Hormuz being shut down is a logical, predictable, and now tangible result of our strike. We. Broke. It. Regardless of anything said above. And regardless of 'how right' we were (or not) to launch a special military operation of choice. We. Broke. It.

Now we are cying for everyone else to fix what we broke. Brilliant.

We fixed our problem. Now they can fix theirs.

Besides we haven’t walked away from anything Clarence. This is typical Trump prodding and you stupid Karens still can’t figure it out. Just how dim witted are you?