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(09-05-2025 01:38 PM)hot pocket Wrote:  I think page 69 would be a very nice place to let this thread die...there is no world in which anyone on team jab has any leg to stand on at this point. You'd think the folks who were so wrong about everything would want to leave the past in the past, but sure, go ahead and remind everyone of all the ways you guys were astonishingly incorrect...

I was working on a project for a therapeutic vaccine that was being developed for a rare lymphoma with some encouraging early results. Because it is mRNA-based tech, there's a decent chance it's development will end soon or otherwise be paused for a significant period of time. The hope is now to instead solicit funding from the Gates foundation.

Probably something to think about the next time a loved one develops cancer.

(09-09-2025 05:31 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(09-05-2025 01:38 PM)hot pocket Wrote:  I think page 69 would be a very nice place to let this thread die...there is no world in which anyone on team jab has any leg to stand on at this point. You'd think the folks who were so wrong about everything would want to leave the past in the past, but sure, go ahead and remind everyone of all the ways you guys were astonishingly incorrect...

I was working on a project for a therapeutic vaccine that was being developed for a rare lymphoma with some encouraging early results. Because it is mRNA-based tech, there's a decent chance it's development will end soon or otherwise be paused for a significant period of time. The hope is now to instead solicit funding from the Gates foundation.

Probably something to think about the next time a loved one develops cancer.

Considering that one of the early reasons for mRNA tech was as a potential cancer treatment, there should be no reason for the next generation of that work not to continue. But there should also be no reason that everyone in the world was expected or mandated to receive that technology when it wasn't necessary.

Quote:The mRNA vaccine idea had a more favourable reception in oncology circles, albeit as a therapeutic agent, rather than to prevent disease. Beginning with the work of gene therapist David Curiel, several academic scientists and start-up companies explored whether mRNA could be used to combat cancer. If mRNA encoded proteins expressed by cancer cells, the thinking went, then injecting it into the body might train the immune system to attack those cells.

The tangled history of mRNA vaccines - Nature

Good luck procuring the funding, that is exactly the type of thing the Gates Foundation should be supporting. I mean that sincerely. I'm not against medical research and advancement. I'm against being unwittingly experimented on on a population-wide basis. Godspeed in your endeavors.

(09-09-2025 05:23 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(09-04-2025 10:29 PM)glacier_dropsy Wrote:  It really is a shame what is happening to our public health infrastructure. The NIH pushing COVID vaccine guidelines with no scientific input. Everyone already has an opinion on the COVID vaccines.

We've completely avoided any submissions to the NIH for vaccine or vaccine-adjacent work for several months now. It started with many of the study sections going on pause and then eventually reached a point where full-blown grants were eliminated.

Notwithstanding the HHS budget outlook moving forward reduces NIH and NSF funding to ~60% of what it once was.

I'm very fortunate to be in a research platform that is well funded by a diversity of sources, and we can solicit vaccine funding from there. But around me I've met countless early scientists who are losing funding, postdocs being laid off, grants canceled en massee, others not reviewed. I had one friend whose tenure-track faculty offer in Florida was rescinded because he studies HIV in gay populations.

RFK's legacy will be completely destroying America's scientific prestige. Everything from Cancer to Cataracts will be affected. If it wasn't obvious from the clowns on this thread, the outcome of the Covid pandemic is the dumbest people on earth hijacking science and healthcare and driving it off a cliff.

I think its important to FIRST acknowledge that public health, pharmaceutical companies, media and govt violated the public trust and destroyed a massive level of faith people put in vaccines and science as a whole.

And honestly think about the irony of calling people clowns who turned out to be absolutely right to harbor skepticism?

Perhaps take a moment to consider how a bunch of clowns understood the concept of naturally derived immunity better than all of the enttites listed above. In order to press the vaccinate-now hysteria all those groups had to pretend natural immunity didn't or predictably would't exist. They had to pretend children could die if not immunized. There was no science to support that - it was pure egregious lying and manipulation

This one hits home with me because it involves a subject (vaccines) that were a constant topic of discussion in my family. If you type my last name in the USPTO database you will find it attached to PAGES of vaccine patents (and vaccine research process patents). Current standard of care vaccines you would recognize immediately. Derived working and leading a research lab for a top 3 pharma company.

It takes years to develop, test and gain approval for real vaccines for a reason. if you think a researcher on that level approved of forcefully manipulating every age group through government, media and even corporate coercion into taking a completely untested, long-lasting, biochemically modified MRNA replicating spike protein you have another thing coming.

I could go on but honestly I am still too pissed. I have apologized to my kids for temporarly abandoning my natural skepticism and critical thinking skills when their schools were forcing vaccinations for school registration. They, especially my son, told me I would regret backing down. They were right it was stupid and dangerous and the worst part is it was obvious even at the time how clearly stupid it all was.

Its time IMO for even greater apologies across the governemnt, the medical community, pharma research, media, corporations etc. But clearly that's not coming. And for that reason maybe RFK is a natural and needed consequence. Maybe conventional scientific funding and research really does need to be dismantled.

They won't publicly acknowledge it. They all know, though. They had no gag reflex and willingly swallowed the whole rotten kielbasa like good fans of the home team.

172 pages of this thread of recycled garbage from the Media Church of Settled Science gobbled up and disseminated by acolytes who belittled any who said the emperor had no clothes. Young Doogie Cataclysmer was the worst offender on the board and was the most educated in the field. UC STEM should be very proud.

(09-09-2025 05:31 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(09-05-2025 01:38 PM)hot pocket Wrote:  I think page 69 would be a very nice place to let this thread die...there is no world in which anyone on team jab has any leg to stand on at this point. You'd think the folks who were so wrong about everything would want to leave the past in the past, but sure, go ahead and remind everyone of all the ways you guys were astonishingly incorrect...

I was working on a project for a therapeutic vaccine that was being developed for a rare lymphoma with some encouraging early results. Because it is mRNA-based tech, there's a decent chance it's development will end soon or otherwise be paused for a significant period of time. The hope is now to instead solicit funding from the Gates foundation.

Probably something to think about the next time a loved one develops cancer.

Well, I guess you can always learn to code.

(09-10-2025 01:30 PM)Eastside_TheWhite Wrote:  I think its important to FIRST acknowledge that public health, pharmaceutical companies, media and govt violated the public trust and destroyed a massive level of faith people put in vaccines and science as a whole.

And honestly think about the irony of calling people clowns who turned out to be absolutely right to harbor skepticism?

Perhaps take a moment to consider how a bunch of clowns understood the concept of naturally derived immunity better than all of the enttites listed above. In order to press the vaccinate-now hysteria all those groups had to pretend natural immunity didn't or predictably would't exist. They had to pretend children could die if not immunized. There was no science to support that - it was pure egregious lying and manipulation

This one hits home with me because it involves a subject (vaccines) that were a constant topic of discussion in my family. If you type my last name in the USPTO database you will find it attached to PAGES of vaccine patents (and vaccine research process patents). Current standard of care vaccines you would recognize immediately. Derived working and leading a research lab for a top 3 pharma company.

It takes years to develop, test and gain approval for real vaccines for a reason. if you think a researcher on that level approved of forcefully manipulating every age group through government, media and even corporate coercion into taking a completely untested, long-lasting, biochemically modified MRNA replicating spike protein you have another thing coming.

I could go on but honestly I am still too pissed. I have apologized to my kids for temporarly abandoning my natural skepticism and critical thinking skills when their schools were forcing vaccinations for school registration. They, especially my son, told me I would regret backing down. They were right it was stupid and dangerous and the worst part is it was obvious even at the time how clearly stupid it all was.

Its time IMO for even greater apologies across the governemnt, the medical community, pharma research, media, corporations etc. But clearly that's not coming. And for that reason maybe RFK is a natural and needed consequence. Maybe conventional scientific funding and research really does need to be dismantled.

Complete, unhinged nonsense.

(09-11-2025 01:32 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(09-10-2025 01:30 PM)Eastside_TheWhite Wrote:  I think its important to FIRST acknowledge that public health, pharmaceutical companies, media and govt violated the public trust and destroyed a massive level of faith people put in vaccines and science as a whole.

And honestly think about the irony of calling people clowns who turned out to be absolutely right to harbor skepticism?

Perhaps take a moment to consider how a bunch of clowns understood the concept of naturally derived immunity better than all of the enttites listed above. In order to press the vaccinate-now hysteria all those groups had to pretend natural immunity didn't or predictably would't exist. They had to pretend children could die if not immunized. There was no science to support that - it was pure egregious lying and manipulation

This one hits home with me because it involves a subject (vaccines) that were a constant topic of discussion in my family. If you type my last name in the USPTO database you will find it attached to PAGES of vaccine patents (and vaccine research process patents). Current standard of care vaccines you would recognize immediately. Derived working and leading a research lab for a top 3 pharma company.

It takes years to develop, test and gain approval for real vaccines for a reason. if you think a researcher on that level approved of forcefully manipulating every age group through government, media and even corporate coercion into taking a completely untested, long-lasting, biochemically modified MRNA replicating spike protein you have another thing coming.

I could go on but honestly I am still too pissed. I have apologized to my kids for temporarly abandoning my natural skepticism and critical thinking skills when their schools were forcing vaccinations for school registration. They, especially my son, told me I would regret backing down. They were right it was stupid and dangerous and the worst part is it was obvious even at the time how clearly stupid it all was.

Its time IMO for even greater apologies across the governemnt, the medical community, pharma research, media, corporations etc. But clearly that's not coming. And for that reason maybe RFK is a natural and needed consequence. Maybe conventional scientific funding and research really does need to be dismantled.

Complete, unhinged nonsense.

Compelling response from the board's unhinged royalty....

I still hate this thread. It's depressing. I understand how people that struggle to comprehend statistics and data analysis can mess this up so bad. Despite basically every study showing the vaccinated having significantly lower death rates than the unvaccinated (in every age group), people see COVID has not been eliminated, and it's hard for people in comprehend fractions of a percent in terms of people dying or being hospitalized having statistical significance.

The simple truth is even at its height in potency before mass vaccination and immunities/potency lessoning due to unvaccinated/vaccinated catching various strains we're talking a tiny percentage. In my life, we lost two loved family members to COVID pre-vaccination and one family friend spent two months on a ventilator and has never fully recovered. But considering the hundreds of friends and family and acquaintances in my life even that is hard to comprehend without really understanding and trusting the numbers/data. We haven't lost anyone since.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/s...anada.html

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full...hsr2.70346

But what continues to be the scariest part of this is how terrible interpretation of data is now causing so many to question vaccination in general. We seem to be on the brink of creating an environment where serious illnesses we've all but eliminated due to mass vaccination are primed for a come back, and many children will be at risk for no other reason than their idiot parents don't understand science.

Scary stuff.

I didn't lose any family members to COVID or any who required hospitalization. I did lose a wife and mother to cancer in 2022 and 2023, respectively. Experience is relative and there are more things to be scared about than COVID from my purview.

(09-11-2025 04:35 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  I didn't lose any family members to COVID or any who required hospitalization. I did lose a wife and mother to cancer in 2022 and 2023, respectively. Experience is relative and there are more things to be scared about than COVID from my purview.

I'm not scared about covid. The combination of vaccination and immunities have significantly brought down the risk.

I lost my father to cancer at 17. One illness doesn't mean there aren't others.

But it's why I'm looking at data not experience. And again, I get why it's hard for many to wrap their head around covid data. Experience and the low risk we've gotten to make it easy to not understand relative risk.

It also doesn't bother me with where we are now that people don't take many don't take covid shots. But we don't have to lie about the data or pretend vaccination is harmful.

Enough with the advanced metrics, already, Mark. Your intellectual rigor is no match for collective common sense.

(09-11-2025 08:42 PM)glacier_dropsy Wrote:  Enough with the advanced metrics, already, Mark. Your intellectual rigor is no match for collective common sense.

Mark is a lay person with a huge ego who likes himself very much.
He has zero knowledge or experience in healthcare.

His lay person interpretation does not impress me.

Worrying about the potential rise in unvaccinated persons and possible reappearing of disease isn’t on most people’s radar. I lost two people closest to me from a disease with no cure and is the second leading cause of death in the U.S. with over 600k/year. Cancer’s been killing us “officially” for 75 years or more. COVID was a blip on the radar. Debate and argue over vaccine science all you want. I think about cancer running in my family genes and how many people it has impacted… both survivors and victims. COVID doesn’t compare for me and for millions of others. Don’t blame people for being suspicious regarding COVID vax. Blame people like Dr. Fauci who claimed facts but kept moving the goalposts and received a pre-emptive pardon.

Whatever they think their stance on medicine is, the reality is that all of these guys ostensibly elected people who dismantled millions of dollars in research going directly toward cancer, disease, aids, etc. At the same time, they kneecapped higher education institutions like UC and made it so that the only major research in pharmaceuticals is going to be done by Big Pharma and Mega-Billionaires like Bill Gates.

The irony is so remarkably poetic you almost have to find joy in the schadenfreude.

(09-11-2025 08:42 PM)glacier_dropsy Wrote:  Enough with the advanced metrics, already, Mark. Your intellectual rigor is no match for collective common sense.

Gosh I must have missed the metrics?

Was it something like the opensafely data that shows lower adverse events (per 100K) among the unvaccinated?

(09-11-2025 03:19 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I still hate this thread. It's depressing. I understand how people that struggle to comprehend statistics and data analysis can mess this up so bad. Despite basically every study showing the vaccinated having significantly lower death rates than the unvaccinated (in every age group), people see COVID has not been eliminated, and it's hard for people in comprehend fractions of a percent in terms of people dying or being hospitalized having statistical significance.

The simple truth is even at its height in potency before mass vaccination and immunities/potency lessoning due to unvaccinated/vaccinated catching various strains we're talking a tiny percentage. In my life, we lost two loved family members to COVID pre-vaccination and one family friend spent two months on a ventilator and has never fully recovered. But considering the hundreds of friends and family and acquaintances in my life even that is hard to comprehend without really understanding and trusting the numbers/data. We haven't lost anyone since.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/s...anada.html

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full...hsr2.70346

But what continues to be the scariest part of this is how terrible interpretation of data is now causing so many to question vaccination in general. We seem to be on the brink of creating an environment where serious illnesses we've all but eliminated due to mass vaccination are primed for a come back, and many children will be at risk for no other reason than their idiot parents don't understand science.

Scary stuff.

Hey Mark - really am sympathetic to your losses.

The early covid variants were far more severe than later versions and the hospitals were just learning how to
treat something new and unfamiliar. People early on were routinely put on ventilators (and had shocking high death rates). But it would be wrong to blame the hospitals and medical staff because patients were coming in with low O2 rates that continued to drop like a stone right in front of them. All their training said the person was literally in a death spiral and HAD TO be put on a ventilator. Sadly it turns out that wasn't the case. We went from thinking world would never be able to produce and distribute ventilators fast enough to realizing invasive mechanical ventilation was exactly the wrong respiratory strategy in all but hail-mary situations.

Again not blaming the clinicians, but there was a learning curve to figuring out ventilation was a death-sentence. Some hospitals figured it out very early and saw their death rates plummet, others went on ventilating (sadly) long after others had figured it out.

Unfortunately if you tell me the month someone died on a ventilator I can probably guess the hospital. One of my best friends is an ER doc at one of the local hospitals that figured it out early. He was literally on the phone with other ER's reporting the drop in deaths they had switching from mechanical vent to a positive pressure strategy. It took serious balls for his unit to make the switch - the whole world was frantic to put people on ventilators (which was, again, absolutely indicated given the symptoms).

This one change in respiratory treatment strategy changed the covid death rate paradigm. But again, not all hospitals switched their standard of treatment right away.

By the time the vaccines came out almost all hospitals had adopted the far more successful protocols and fortunately new variants emerged that had even greater transmissibility but lower severity.

Natural immunity and an evolution towards lower severity was predictable (and was predicted by a whole lot of people at the time) - as this is the typical path of most coronavirus strains.

(09-12-2025 02:22 PM)Eastside_TheWhite Wrote:  

(09-11-2025 03:19 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I still hate this thread. It's depressing. I understand how people that struggle to comprehend statistics and data analysis can mess this up so bad. Despite basically every study showing the vaccinated having significantly lower death rates than the unvaccinated (in every age group), people see COVID has not been eliminated, and it's hard for people in comprehend fractions of a percent in terms of people dying or being hospitalized having statistical significance.

The simple truth is even at its height in potency before mass vaccination and immunities/potency lessoning due to unvaccinated/vaccinated catching various strains we're talking a tiny percentage. In my life, we lost two loved family members to COVID pre-vaccination and one family friend spent two months on a ventilator and has never fully recovered. But considering the hundreds of friends and family and acquaintances in my life even that is hard to comprehend without really understanding and trusting the numbers/data. We haven't lost anyone since.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/s...anada.html

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full...hsr2.70346

But what continues to be the scariest part of this is how terrible interpretation of data is now causing so many to question vaccination in general. We seem to be on the brink of creating an environment where serious illnesses we've all but eliminated due to mass vaccination are primed for a come back, and many children will be at risk for no other reason than their idiot parents don't understand science.

Scary stuff.

Hey Mark - really am sympathetic to your losses.

The early covid variants were far more severe than later versions and the hospitals were just learning how to
treat something new and unfamiliar. People early on were routinely put on ventilators (and had shocking high death rates). But it would be wrong to blame the hospitals and medical staff because patients were coming in with low O2 rates that continued to drop like a stone right in front of them. All their training said the person was literally in a death spiral and HAD TO be put on a ventilator. Sadly it turns out that wasn't the case. We went from thinking world would never be able to produce and distribute ventilators fast enough to realizing invasive mechanical ventilation was exactly the wrong respiratory strategy in all but hail-mary situations.

Again not blaming the clinicians, but there was a learning curve to figuring out ventilation was a death-sentence. Some hospitals figured it out very early and saw their death rates plummet, others went on ventilating (sadly) long after others had figured it out.

Unfortunately if you tell me the month someone died on a ventilator I can probably guess the hospital. One of my best friends is an ER doc at one of the local hospitals that figured it out early. He was literally on the phone with other ER's reporting the drop in deaths they had switching from mechanical vent to a positive pressure strategy. It took serious balls for his unit to make the switch - the whole world was frantic to put people on ventilators (which was, again, absolutely indicated given the symptoms).

This one change in respiratory treatment strategy changed the covid death rate paradigm. But again, not all hospitals switched their standard of treatment right away.

By the time the vaccines came out almost all hospitals had adopted the far more successful protocols and fortunately new variants emerged that had even greater transmissibility but lower severity.

Natural immunity and an evolution towards lower severity was predictable (and was predicted by a whole lot of people at the time) - as this is the typical path of most coronavirus strains.

Eastside, I appreciate your thoughtful input. It was a novel virus, we try.

(09-12-2025 11:14 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Whatever they think their stance on medicine is, the reality is that all of these guys ostensibly elected people who dismantled millions of dollars in research going directly toward cancer, disease, aids, etc. At the same time, they kneecapped higher education institutions like UC and made it so that the only major research in pharmaceuticals is going to be done by Big Pharma and Mega-Billionaires like Bill Gates.

The irony is so remarkably poetic you almost have to find joy in the schadenfreude.

I'm always happy to help out my navel gazing STEM brothers and sisters who struggle with public speaking.

The words you are looking for are "I'm sorry I was a pretentious jerk and I was wrong about most of it."

You're welcome.

REDS 80-76 3 HOME V PIRATES, 3 ROAD V BREWERS

METS 80-76 3 ROAD V CUBS, 3 ROAD V MARLINS

ARIZ 79-77 3 HOME DODGERS, 3 ROAD V PADRES

REDS have tie breaker versus both.