(03-03-2024 03:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 02:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 12:45 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 12:07 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 11:43 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNCCH isn't going anywhere. So many seem to think that the Board of Governors approval requirement is all about NCSU. It actually is at least as much if not more about the economy of the State of North Carolina. The BOG are made up of economic/political behind the scenes movers and shakers. Each of them has a vested interest in economic wellbeing and growth of the state. Each of them are beholding to the North Carolina General Assembly who appoint them. The 4 North Carolina based schools are important economic engines for the state with 3 major hospital systems, agricultural investment, major research, industrial development, etc. etc. In addition the ACC headquartered in the state creates major economic infusions with more than half the ACC events taking place here. That's tourist dollars, taxes paid, etc. Should UNCCH leave the ACC the conference would be weakened significantly and in fact at risk complete failure. The domino effect is fairly obvious with even a few minutes of reflection. So the BOG isn't going to be looking so much at keeping NCSU whole, but rather keeping the economy of the State of North Carolina whole. Therefore I believe that there is no financial plan that UNCCH can present to the BOG that they will approve. The ripples that will move outward from a UNCCH departure to the SEC or B10 are just too great and too negative for it to be allowed. The incentives that the state awarded to the ACC for keeping their HQ in the state are just chicken feed compared to the benefits the taxpayers receive having a strong healthy ACC centered in our state.

^^^^^^^

Ding, ding, ding........winner, winner chicken dinner!

If it comes down to it the General Assembly would just give the Carolina athletic department $40 Million a year to stay put.

If that's the case, then the SEC should just add Clemson and Florida State and call quits. There aren't very many good picks left for either the BIG or the SEC to take. With Clemson and Florida State gone, it'll allow the ACC to backfill with South Florida, Tulane and UConn.

Why in the world would Clemson want to join the SEC.
They have for years seen how South Carolina has been treated like a second class citizen by the SEC.

Do you ever take off your glasses with the baby blue lenses in them?

Born with 'em.

North Carolinians need to come to their senses and understand that 4 P schools in a state that size was oversaturation. WF and Duke got the benefit of getting to be in a big league for many decades because the seat of power for the ACC was NC. If it’s a matter of wether none or some of the state’s schools get to remain at collegiate athletics highest level, they need to pivot their position and push to get both UNC and NC St a spot in the P2, preferably together. (This would at least leave open the possibility the Duke and WF could continue playing them OOC).

(03-03-2024 01:47 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:17 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 12:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The schools jumping from the Big 12 and PAC 12 did not realized the impact what they did would kill their economy of their states. It would be the same with the ACC. Oklahoma is nothing without Oklahoma State. Kansas is nothing without K State. Texas and Texas A&M are nothing without Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, Houston and Rice. Maryland is nothing without their ACC rivals. Rutgers and former Big East ACC members are nothing without Cincinnati, UConn, West Virginia and USF.

Thus the reason it is important that the UNC System Board of Governors made sure that any such move would require their approval. They will be looking at the big picture.

That is, the local picture.

All politics is local.

(03-03-2024 01:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 11:43 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNCCH isn't going anywhere. So many seem to think that the Board of Governors approval requirement is all about NCSU. It actually is at least as much if not more about the economy of the State of North Carolina. The BOG are made up of economic/political behind the scenes movers and shakers. Each of them has a vested interest in economic wellbeing and growth of the state. Each of them are beholding to the North Carolina General Assembly who appoint them. The 4 North Carolina based schools are important economic engines for the state with 3 major hospital systems, agricultural investment, major research, industrial development, etc. etc. In addition the ACC headquartered in the state creates major economic infusions with more than half the ACC events taking place here. That's tourist dollars, taxes paid, etc. Should UNCCH leave the ACC the conference would be weakened significantly and in fact at risk complete failure. The domino effect is fairly obvious with even a few minutes of reflection. So the BOG isn't going to be looking so much at keeping NCSU whole, but rather keeping the economy of the State of North Carolina whole. Therefore I believe that there is no financial plan that UNCCH can present to the BOG that they will approve. The ripples that will move outward from a UNCCH departure to the SEC or B10 are just too great and too negative for it to be allowed. The incentives that the state awarded to the ACC for keeping their HQ in the state are just chicken feed compared to the benefits the taxpayers receive having a strong healthy ACC centered in our state.

IMO, a weakened ACC would essentially have zero impact on the economy of the state of North Carolina.

I agree that the four state ACC schools are important economic engines for the state, but IMO if suddenly three of them were to move to the Sun Belt conference this again would have basically no impact on the state economy. The link between what athletic conference a school plays in on that is IMO vanishingly small. Regardless of conference, NC State will still do all the research and hospital work it currently does, and Duke and Wake Forest will remain elite and quasi-elite private universities.

So IMO, this move, and the recent sabre-rattling by legislators and the governor about wanting UNC and NCST in the same conference is probably 99% about protecting NC State.

Plus, even if I am wrong about the above, IMO it is a futile effort anyway. If FSU and Clemson and Miami were to leave, the ACC, already demoted to an M2 conference, would likely slip into quasi-G league territory anyway even if UNC were to remain.

So again, IMO this is another shot fired across the bow about protecting NC State.

You missed the point.

(03-03-2024 05:01 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 11:43 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNCCH isn't going anywhere. So many seem to think that the Board of Governors approval requirement is all about NCSU. It actually is at least as much if not more about the economy of the State of North Carolina. The BOG are made up of economic/political behind the scenes movers and shakers. Each of them has a vested interest in economic wellbeing and growth of the state. Each of them are beholding to the North Carolina General Assembly who appoint them. The 4 North Carolina based schools are important economic engines for the state with 3 major hospital systems, agricultural investment, major research, industrial development, etc. etc. In addition the ACC headquartered in the state creates major economic infusions with more than half the ACC events taking place here. That's tourist dollars, taxes paid, etc. Should UNCCH leave the ACC the conference would be weakened significantly and in fact at risk complete failure. The domino effect is fairly obvious with even a few minutes of reflection. So the BOG isn't going to be looking so much at keeping NCSU whole, but rather keeping the economy of the State of North Carolina whole. Therefore I believe that there is no financial plan that UNCCH can present to the BOG that they will approve. The ripples that will move outward from a UNCCH departure to the SEC or B10 are just too great and too negative for it to be allowed. The incentives that the state awarded to the ACC for keeping their HQ in the state are just chicken feed compared to the benefits the taxpayers receive having a strong healthy ACC centered in our state.

IMO, a weakened ACC would essentially have zero impact on the economy of the state of North Carolina.

I agree that the four state ACC schools are important economic engines for the state, but IMO if suddenly three of them were to move to the Sun Belt conference this again would have basically no impact on the state economy. The link between what athletic conference a school plays in on that is IMO vanishingly small. Regardless of conference, NC State will still do all the research and hospital work it currently does, and Duke and Wake Forest will remain elite and quasi-elite private universities.

So IMO, this move, and the recent sabre-rattling by legislators and the governor about wanting UNC and NCST in the same conference is probably 99% about protecting NC State.

Plus, even if I am wrong about the above, IMO it is a futile effort anyway. If FSU and Clemson and Miami were to leave, the ACC, already demoted to an M2 conference, would likely slip into quasi-G league territory anyway even if UNC were to remain.

So again, IMO this is another shot fired across the bow about protecting NC State.

You missed the point.

Eh, you seemed to emphasize the importance to the BOG powers of keeping the state economy whole. So I addressed, or tried to address, that aspect of that - IMO there is nothing significant about the state economy that depends on whether NC State, Duke and WF are in a "power" athletic conference or not.

Which takes me then back to ... protecting NC State.

Just MO.

(03-03-2024 01:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 11:43 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNCCH isn't going anywhere. So many seem to think that the Board of Governors approval requirement is all about NCSU. It actually is at least as much if not more about the economy of the State of North Carolina. The BOG are made up of economic/political behind the scenes movers and shakers. Each of them has a vested interest in economic wellbeing and growth of the state. Each of them are beholding to the North Carolina General Assembly who appoint them. The 4 North Carolina based schools are important economic engines for the state with 3 major hospital systems, agricultural investment, major research, industrial development, etc. etc. In addition the ACC headquartered in the state creates major economic infusions with more than half the ACC events taking place here. That's tourist dollars, taxes paid, etc. Should UNCCH leave the ACC the conference would be weakened significantly and in fact at risk complete failure. The domino effect is fairly obvious with even a few minutes of reflection. So the BOG isn't going to be looking so much at keeping NCSU whole, but rather keeping the economy of the State of North Carolina whole. Therefore I believe that there is no financial plan that UNCCH can present to the BOG that they will approve. The ripples that will move outward from a UNCCH departure to the SEC or B10 are just too great and too negative for it to be allowed. The incentives that the state awarded to the ACC for keeping their HQ in the state are just chicken feed compared to the benefits the taxpayers receive having a strong healthy ACC centered in our state.

IMO, a weakened ACC would essentially have zero impact on the economy of the state of North Carolina.

I agree that the four state ACC schools are important economic engines for the state, but IMO if suddenly three of them were to move to the Sun Belt conference this again would have basically no impact on the state economy. The link between what athletic conference a school plays in on that is IMO vanishingly small.

So IMO, this move, and the recent sabre-rattling by legislators and the governor about wanting UNC and NCST in the same conference is probably 99% about protecting NC State.

It's simply about control Quo. Clearly the state economy would be better with SEC and Big 10 travel crowds coming in and TV exposure more directly in the SE and SW and in the Northern Midwest. There must be some political advantage they believe they have to want to pursue this from such an awkward tack and my bet is the bureaucracy of the Board of Regents period. Perhaps they fear that if the ACC headquarters were gone, and/or their top schools divided among several larger entities that somehow the necessity of their positions would be diminished.

How many events do you think the SEC or B10 will host in North Carolina if one or two of their members are from the state? I'm guessing zero. How many events do you think the ACC will host in North Carolina if it is the center of the conference with 4 members from the state, and with an economic agreement for a large number guaranteed to be held here?

(03-03-2024 05:16 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 11:43 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNCCH isn't going anywhere. So many seem to think that the Board of Governors approval requirement is all about NCSU. It actually is at least as much if not more about the economy of the State of North Carolina. The BOG are made up of economic/political behind the scenes movers and shakers. Each of them has a vested interest in economic wellbeing and growth of the state. Each of them are beholding to the North Carolina General Assembly who appoint them. The 4 North Carolina based schools are important economic engines for the state with 3 major hospital systems, agricultural investment, major research, industrial development, etc. etc. In addition the ACC headquartered in the state creates major economic infusions with more than half the ACC events taking place here. That's tourist dollars, taxes paid, etc. Should UNCCH leave the ACC the conference would be weakened significantly and in fact at risk complete failure. The domino effect is fairly obvious with even a few minutes of reflection. So the BOG isn't going to be looking so much at keeping NCSU whole, but rather keeping the economy of the State of North Carolina whole. Therefore I believe that there is no financial plan that UNCCH can present to the BOG that they will approve. The ripples that will move outward from a UNCCH departure to the SEC or B10 are just too great and too negative for it to be allowed. The incentives that the state awarded to the ACC for keeping their HQ in the state are just chicken feed compared to the benefits the taxpayers receive having a strong healthy ACC centered in our state.

IMO, a weakened ACC would essentially have zero impact on the economy of the state of North Carolina.

I agree that the four state ACC schools are important economic engines for the state, but IMO if suddenly three of them were to move to the Sun Belt conference this again would have basically no impact on the state economy. The link between what athletic conference a school plays in on that is IMO vanishingly small.

So IMO, this move, and the recent sabre-rattling by legislators and the governor about wanting UNC and NCST in the same conference is probably 99% about protecting NC State.

It's simply about control Quo. Clearly the state economy would be better with SEC and Big 10 travel crowds coming in and TV exposure more directly in the SE and SW and in the Northern Midwest. There must be some political advantage they believe they have to want to pursue this from such an awkward tack and my bet is the bureaucracy of the Board of Regents period. Perhaps they fear that if the ACC headquarters were gone, and/or their top schools divided among several larger entities that somehow the necessity of their positions would be diminished.

How many events do you think the SEC or B10 will host in North Carolina if one or two of their members are from the state? I'm guessing zero. How many events do you think the ACC will host in North Carolina if it is the center of the conference with 4 members from the state, and with an economic agreement for a large number guaranteed to be held here?

The SECN is already based in Charlotte and the SEC is pretty good about hosting events in its member states. The point is 4 maybe 5 games a year by each school in the SEC or Big 10 would be played in North Carolina and that is a pile of out of state people flying into to North Carolina, or driving in to buy hotel rooms, eat at restaurants, and buy stuff while they are there. And that's out of state money flowing in, not Virginia and South Carolina people popping in and leaving after the game, and not a 4 schools worth of alums driving home after a nearby event when the 4 in state schools play each other now.

(03-03-2024 05:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:01 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 11:43 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNCCH isn't going anywhere. So many seem to think that the Board of Governors approval requirement is all about NCSU. It actually is at least as much if not more about the economy of the State of North Carolina. The BOG are made up of economic/political behind the scenes movers and shakers. Each of them has a vested interest in economic wellbeing and growth of the state. Each of them are beholding to the North Carolina General Assembly who appoint them. The 4 North Carolina based schools are important economic engines for the state with 3 major hospital systems, agricultural investment, major research, industrial development, etc. etc. In addition the ACC headquartered in the state creates major economic infusions with more than half the ACC events taking place here. That's tourist dollars, taxes paid, etc. Should UNCCH leave the ACC the conference would be weakened significantly and in fact at risk complete failure. The domino effect is fairly obvious with even a few minutes of reflection. So the BOG isn't going to be looking so much at keeping NCSU whole, but rather keeping the economy of the State of North Carolina whole. Therefore I believe that there is no financial plan that UNCCH can present to the BOG that they will approve. The ripples that will move outward from a UNCCH departure to the SEC or B10 are just too great and too negative for it to be allowed. The incentives that the state awarded to the ACC for keeping their HQ in the state are just chicken feed compared to the benefits the taxpayers receive having a strong healthy ACC centered in our state.

IMO, a weakened ACC would essentially have zero impact on the economy of the state of North Carolina.

I agree that the four state ACC schools are important economic engines for the state, but IMO if suddenly three of them were to move to the Sun Belt conference this again would have basically no impact on the state economy. The link between what athletic conference a school plays in on that is IMO vanishingly small. Regardless of conference, NC State will still do all the research and hospital work it currently does, and Duke and Wake Forest will remain elite and quasi-elite private universities.

So IMO, this move, and the recent sabre-rattling by legislators and the governor about wanting UNC and NCST in the same conference is probably 99% about protecting NC State.

Plus, even if I am wrong about the above, IMO it is a futile effort anyway. If FSU and Clemson and Miami were to leave, the ACC, already demoted to an M2 conference, would likely slip into quasi-G league territory anyway even if UNC were to remain.

So again, IMO this is another shot fired across the bow about protecting NC State.

You missed the point.

Eh, you seemed to emphasize the importance to the BOG powers of keeping the state economy whole. So I addressed, or tried to address, that aspect of that - IMO there is nothing significant about the state economy that depends on whether NC State, Duke and WF are in a "power" athletic conference or not.

Which takes me then back to ... protecting NC State.

Just MO.

It's about the interconnectivity of business, academics and government. The point is that the BOG aren't just thinking about football. They are thinking about the state economy and how it can best serve their and the taxpayers interests. An increased athletic department budget for UNCCH is small potatoes in the grand scheme. Sure they want to go back to their hometowns and say, "Go Pack", or "I bleed Carolina Blue". But that's just theatrics. They actually want to meet with the CEOs of food distribution businesses, hotel chains, transportation services, local government officals etc. and say we've got 42 events locked up over the next 2 years that will mean profits, jobs, and opportunities to your community. And we can expect this to continue into the foreseeable future.

(03-03-2024 05:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:16 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 11:43 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNCCH isn't going anywhere. So many seem to think that the Board of Governors approval requirement is all about NCSU. It actually is at least as much if not more about the economy of the State of North Carolina. The BOG are made up of economic/political behind the scenes movers and shakers. Each of them has a vested interest in economic wellbeing and growth of the state. Each of them are beholding to the North Carolina General Assembly who appoint them. The 4 North Carolina based schools are important economic engines for the state with 3 major hospital systems, agricultural investment, major research, industrial development, etc. etc. In addition the ACC headquartered in the state creates major economic infusions with more than half the ACC events taking place here. That's tourist dollars, taxes paid, etc. Should UNCCH leave the ACC the conference would be weakened significantly and in fact at risk complete failure. The domino effect is fairly obvious with even a few minutes of reflection. So the BOG isn't going to be looking so much at keeping NCSU whole, but rather keeping the economy of the State of North Carolina whole. Therefore I believe that there is no financial plan that UNCCH can present to the BOG that they will approve. The ripples that will move outward from a UNCCH departure to the SEC or B10 are just too great and too negative for it to be allowed. The incentives that the state awarded to the ACC for keeping their HQ in the state are just chicken feed compared to the benefits the taxpayers receive having a strong healthy ACC centered in our state.

IMO, a weakened ACC would essentially have zero impact on the economy of the state of North Carolina.

I agree that the four state ACC schools are important economic engines for the state, but IMO if suddenly three of them were to move to the Sun Belt conference this again would have basically no impact on the state economy. The link between what athletic conference a school plays in on that is IMO vanishingly small.

So IMO, this move, and the recent sabre-rattling by legislators and the governor about wanting UNC and NCST in the same conference is probably 99% about protecting NC State.

It's simply about control Quo. Clearly the state economy would be better with SEC and Big 10 travel crowds coming in and TV exposure more directly in the SE and SW and in the Northern Midwest. There must be some political advantage they believe they have to want to pursue this from such an awkward tack and my bet is the bureaucracy of the Board of Regents period. Perhaps they fear that if the ACC headquarters were gone, and/or their top schools divided among several larger entities that somehow the necessity of their positions would be diminished.

How many events do you think the SEC or B10 will host in North Carolina if one or two of their members are from the state? I'm guessing zero. How many events do you think the ACC will host in North Carolina if it is the center of the conference with 4 members from the state, and with an economic agreement for a large number guaranteed to be held here?

The SECN is already based in Charlotte and the SEC is pretty good about hosting events in its member states. The point is 4 maybe 5 games a year by each school in the SEC or Big 10 would be played in North Carolina and that is a pile of out of state people flying into to North Carolina, or driving in to buy hotel rooms, eat at restaurants, and buy stuff while they are there. And that's out of state money flowing in, not Virginia and South Carolina people popping in and leaving after the game, and not a 4 schools worth of alums driving home after a nearby event when the 4 in state schools play each other now.

Compare that to this, and I think you will concede my point.

The ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament will take place in North Carolina for five consecutive years from 2025 to 2029. The historical postseason tournament will alternate years, taking place at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte in 2025, 2026, and 2028, and at the Greensboro Coliseum in 2027 and 2029. No venue has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament more than the Greensboro Coliseum, and 2027 will mark the 30th time. The City of Charlotte has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament on 13 occasions.

The ACC Women’s Basketball Tournament will also split time between Charlotte and Greensboro, as the women’s tournament will tip off in the Greensboro Coliseum in 2024 and 2025. In 2027, the longest-running DI conference women’s basketball tournament in the country will be held at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte.

Like the men’s and women’s basketball championships, the ACC Baseball Championship will also alternate sites over the next six years. Starting this spring, the baseball conference championship will be hosted at Truist Field in Charlotte in 2024, 2026, and 2028, while Durham and the Durham Bulls Athletic Park will host the championship event in 2025, 2027, and 2029.

In addition to basketball, the Greensboro Coliseum Complex will also host men’s and women’s swimming and diving as well as gymnastics. The Greensboro Aquatic Center will host the ACC Men’s and Women’s Swimming & Diving Championships in five of the next six years – 2024, 2025, 2027, 2028, and 2029. The ACC Gymnastics Championship will be held three straight years – 2024, 2025, and 2026 – at the Greensboro Coliseum.

Charlotte is the host city for both the ACC Men’s and Women’s Lacrosse Championships beginning this spring and running through 2028. Both events will be held at the American Legion Memorial Stadium.

The ACC Women’s Soccer Championship and the ACC Men’s Soccer Championship will continue to be held at WakeMed Soccer Park in Cary through the 2029 season.
The Cary Tennis Park will continue to host the ACC Women’s and Men’s Tennis Championships from 2024 through 2029.

Lake Wheeler Park in Raleigh will host the ACC Rowing Championship in five of the next seven years, including 2024, 2026, 2027, 2029, and 2030, while the ACC Women’s Golf Championship will be played on a variety of McConnell Golf properties throughout the Southeast through 2029. The 2024 event will be held in Wilmington at Porters Neck Country Club, while the 2025, 2027, and 2029 tournaments will take place at Sedgefield Country Club in Greensboro.

(03-03-2024 05:59 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:16 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  IMO, a weakened ACC would essentially have zero impact on the economy of the state of North Carolina.

I agree that the four state ACC schools are important economic engines for the state, but IMO if suddenly three of them were to move to the Sun Belt conference this again would have basically no impact on the state economy. The link between what athletic conference a school plays in on that is IMO vanishingly small.

So IMO, this move, and the recent sabre-rattling by legislators and the governor about wanting UNC and NCST in the same conference is probably 99% about protecting NC State.

It's simply about control Quo. Clearly the state economy would be better with SEC and Big 10 travel crowds coming in and TV exposure more directly in the SE and SW and in the Northern Midwest. There must be some political advantage they believe they have to want to pursue this from such an awkward tack and my bet is the bureaucracy of the Board of Regents period. Perhaps they fear that if the ACC headquarters were gone, and/or their top schools divided among several larger entities that somehow the necessity of their positions would be diminished.

How many events do you think the SEC or B10 will host in North Carolina if one or two of their members are from the state? I'm guessing zero. How many events do you think the ACC will host in North Carolina if it is the center of the conference with 4 members from the state, and with an economic agreement for a large number guaranteed to be held here?

The SECN is already based in Charlotte and the SEC is pretty good about hosting events in its member states. The point is 4 maybe 5 games a year by each school in the SEC or Big 10 would be played in North Carolina and that is a pile of out of state people flying into to North Carolina, or driving in to buy hotel rooms, eat at restaurants, and buy stuff while they are there. And that's out of state money flowing in, not Virginia and South Carolina people popping in and leaving after the game, and not a 4 schools worth of alums driving home after a nearby event when the 4 in state schools play each other now.

Compare that to this, and I think you will concede my point.

The ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament will take place in North Carolina for five consecutive years from 2025 to 2029. The historical postseason tournament will alternate years, taking place at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte in 2025, 2026, and 2028, and at the Greensboro Coliseum in 2027 and 2029. No venue has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament more than the Greensboro Coliseum, and 2027 will mark the 30th time. The City of Charlotte has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament on 13 occasions.

The ACC Women’s Basketball Tournament will also split time between Charlotte and Greensboro, as the women’s tournament will tip off in the Greensboro Coliseum in 2024 and 2025. In 2027, the longest-running DI conference women’s basketball tournament in the country will be held at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte.

Like the men’s and women’s basketball championships, the ACC Baseball Championship will also alternate sites over the next six years. Starting this spring, the baseball conference championship will be hosted at Truist Field in Charlotte in 2024, 2026, and 2028, while Durham and the Durham Bulls Athletic Park will host the championship event in 2025, 2027, and 2029.

In addition to basketball, the Greensboro Coliseum Complex will also host men’s and women’s swimming and diving as well as gymnastics. The Greensboro Aquatic Center will host the ACC Men’s and Women’s Swimming & Diving Championships in five of the next six years – 2024, 2025, 2027, 2028, and 2029. The ACC Gymnastics Championship will be held three straight years – 2024, 2025, and 2026 – at the Greensboro Coliseum.

Charlotte is the host city for both the ACC Men’s and Women’s Lacrosse Championships beginning this spring and running through 2028. Both events will be held at the American Legion Memorial Stadium.

The ACC Women’s Soccer Championship and the ACC Men’s Soccer Championship will continue to be held at WakeMed Soccer Park in Cary through the 2029 season.
The Cary Tennis Park will continue to host the ACC Women’s and Men’s Tennis Championships from 2024 through 2029.

Lake Wheeler Park in Raleigh will host the ACC Rowing Championship in five of the next seven years, including 2024, 2026, 2027, 2029, and 2030, while the ACC Women’s Golf Championship will be played on a variety of McConnell Golf properties throughout the Southeast through 2029. The 2024 event will be held in Wilmington at Porters Neck Country Club, while the 2025, 2027, and 2029 tournaments will take place at Sedgefield Country Club in Greensboro.

That's a lot of championships (lots of $$ spent in NC).

(03-03-2024 08:10 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:59 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:16 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It's simply about control Quo. Clearly the state economy would be better with SEC and Big 10 travel crowds coming in and TV exposure more directly in the SE and SW and in the Northern Midwest. There must be some political advantage they believe they have to want to pursue this from such an awkward tack and my bet is the bureaucracy of the Board of Regents period. Perhaps they fear that if the ACC headquarters were gone, and/or their top schools divided among several larger entities that somehow the necessity of their positions would be diminished.

How many events do you think the SEC or B10 will host in North Carolina if one or two of their members are from the state? I'm guessing zero. How many events do you think the ACC will host in North Carolina if it is the center of the conference with 4 members from the state, and with an economic agreement for a large number guaranteed to be held here?

The SECN is already based in Charlotte and the SEC is pretty good about hosting events in its member states. The point is 4 maybe 5 games a year by each school in the SEC or Big 10 would be played in North Carolina and that is a pile of out of state people flying into to North Carolina, or driving in to buy hotel rooms, eat at restaurants, and buy stuff while they are there. And that's out of state money flowing in, not Virginia and South Carolina people popping in and leaving after the game, and not a 4 schools worth of alums driving home after a nearby event when the 4 in state schools play each other now.

Compare that to this, and I think you will concede my point.

The ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament will take place in North Carolina for five consecutive years from 2025 to 2029. The historical postseason tournament will alternate years, taking place at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte in 2025, 2026, and 2028, and at the Greensboro Coliseum in 2027 and 2029. No venue has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament more than the Greensboro Coliseum, and 2027 will mark the 30th time. The City of Charlotte has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament on 13 occasions.

The ACC Women’s Basketball Tournament will also split time between Charlotte and Greensboro, as the women’s tournament will tip off in the Greensboro Coliseum in 2024 and 2025. In 2027, the longest-running DI conference women’s basketball tournament in the country will be held at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte.

Like the men’s and women’s basketball championships, the ACC Baseball Championship will also alternate sites over the next six years. Starting this spring, the baseball conference championship will be hosted at Truist Field in Charlotte in 2024, 2026, and 2028, while Durham and the Durham Bulls Athletic Park will host the championship event in 2025, 2027, and 2029.

In addition to basketball, the Greensboro Coliseum Complex will also host men’s and women’s swimming and diving as well as gymnastics. The Greensboro Aquatic Center will host the ACC Men’s and Women’s Swimming & Diving Championships in five of the next six years – 2024, 2025, 2027, 2028, and 2029. The ACC Gymnastics Championship will be held three straight years – 2024, 2025, and 2026 – at the Greensboro Coliseum.

Charlotte is the host city for both the ACC Men’s and Women’s Lacrosse Championships beginning this spring and running through 2028. Both events will be held at the American Legion Memorial Stadium.

The ACC Women’s Soccer Championship and the ACC Men’s Soccer Championship will continue to be held at WakeMed Soccer Park in Cary through the 2029 season.
The Cary Tennis Park will continue to host the ACC Women’s and Men’s Tennis Championships from 2024 through 2029.

Lake Wheeler Park in Raleigh will host the ACC Rowing Championship in five of the next seven years, including 2024, 2026, 2027, 2029, and 2030, while the ACC Women’s Golf Championship will be played on a variety of McConnell Golf properties throughout the Southeast through 2029. The 2024 event will be held in Wilmington at Porters Neck Country Club, while the 2025, 2027, and 2029 tournaments will take place at Sedgefield Country Club in Greensboro.

That's a lot of championships (lots of $$ spent in NC).

Outside money is new money. Local money is what you have already. You need a flow chart on an influx of cash to realize how much revenue is generated on an influx of capital from without the region. Football brings much more and it's not like you'll never host another basketball tournament. Can you imagine hosting an upper tier tourney in Raleigh Durham because you have 3 gyms within driving distance of each other and care air games simultaneously over different networks?

The ACC has the problems it faces because they've always thought too small and provincially.

(03-03-2024 08:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 08:10 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:59 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:16 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  How many events do you think the SEC or B10 will host in North Carolina if one or two of their members are from the state? I'm guessing zero. How many events do you think the ACC will host in North Carolina if it is the center of the conference with 4 members from the state, and with an economic agreement for a large number guaranteed to be held here?

The SECN is already based in Charlotte and the SEC is pretty good about hosting events in its member states. The point is 4 maybe 5 games a year by each school in the SEC or Big 10 would be played in North Carolina and that is a pile of out of state people flying into to North Carolina, or driving in to buy hotel rooms, eat at restaurants, and buy stuff while they are there. And that's out of state money flowing in, not Virginia and South Carolina people popping in and leaving after the game, and not a 4 schools worth of alums driving home after a nearby event when the 4 in state schools play each other now.

Compare that to this, and I think you will concede my point.

The ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament will take place in North Carolina for five consecutive years from 2025 to 2029. The historical postseason tournament will alternate years, taking place at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte in 2025, 2026, and 2028, and at the Greensboro Coliseum in 2027 and 2029. No venue has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament more than the Greensboro Coliseum, and 2027 will mark the 30th time. The City of Charlotte has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament on 13 occasions.

The ACC Women’s Basketball Tournament will also split time between Charlotte and Greensboro, as the women’s tournament will tip off in the Greensboro Coliseum in 2024 and 2025. In 2027, the longest-running DI conference women’s basketball tournament in the country will be held at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte.

Like the men’s and women’s basketball championships, the ACC Baseball Championship will also alternate sites over the next six years. Starting this spring, the baseball conference championship will be hosted at Truist Field in Charlotte in 2024, 2026, and 2028, while Durham and the Durham Bulls Athletic Park will host the championship event in 2025, 2027, and 2029.

In addition to basketball, the Greensboro Coliseum Complex will also host men’s and women’s swimming and diving as well as gymnastics. The Greensboro Aquatic Center will host the ACC Men’s and Women’s Swimming & Diving Championships in five of the next six years – 2024, 2025, 2027, 2028, and 2029. The ACC Gymnastics Championship will be held three straight years – 2024, 2025, and 2026 – at the Greensboro Coliseum.

Charlotte is the host city for both the ACC Men’s and Women’s Lacrosse Championships beginning this spring and running through 2028. Both events will be held at the American Legion Memorial Stadium.

The ACC Women’s Soccer Championship and the ACC Men’s Soccer Championship will continue to be held at WakeMed Soccer Park in Cary through the 2029 season.
The Cary Tennis Park will continue to host the ACC Women’s and Men’s Tennis Championships from 2024 through 2029.

Lake Wheeler Park in Raleigh will host the ACC Rowing Championship in five of the next seven years, including 2024, 2026, 2027, 2029, and 2030, while the ACC Women’s Golf Championship will be played on a variety of McConnell Golf properties throughout the Southeast through 2029. The 2024 event will be held in Wilmington at Porters Neck Country Club, while the 2025, 2027, and 2029 tournaments will take place at Sedgefield Country Club in Greensboro.

That's a lot of championships (lots of $$ spent in NC).

Outside money is new money. Local money is what you have already. You need a flow chart on an influx of cash to realize how much revenue is generated on an influx of capital from without the region. Football brings much more and it's not like you'll never host another basketball tournament. Can you imagine hosting an upper tier tourney in Raleigh Durham because you have 3 gyms within driving distance of each other and care air games simultaneously over different networks?

The ACC has the problems it faces because they've always thought too small and provincially.

How exactly are people traveling here from Miami, Boston, Louisville, San Francisco, Dallas, Atlanta, Charlottesville, Syracuse local? And how does 4 or 5 football games in the fall surpass the economic impact of year round multiday events? And how does a football game in Chapel Hill benefit the citizens in Wilmington or Charlotte or Greensboro?

Big picture $15M is small compared to the hundreds of millions exiting teams will be paying the ACC. If anything the ACC can dump that on an exiting North Carolina's penalty because it constitutes direct real damages.

(03-03-2024 08:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The ACC has the problems it faces because they've always thought too small and provincially.

The very definition of a mom and pop shop

(03-04-2024 08:23 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 08:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The ACC has the problems it faces because they've always thought too small and provincially.

The very definition of a mom and pop shop

A mom and pop shop with its own network that stretches from Boston to Miami to the San Francisco Bay. Whatever you say

(03-04-2024 10:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 08:23 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 08:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The ACC has the problems it faces because they've always thought too small and provincially.

The very definition of a mom and pop shop

A mom and pop shop with its own network that stretches from Boston to Miami to the San Francisco Bay. Whatever you say

"Mom and pop shop" tends to refer to the style of running the organization, rather than the scale.

I googled "KEvin Warren mom and pop shop" because I remember articles about how he was modernizing and professionalizing the Big Ten offices. But I found one about the Bears that makes my point (paywalled, but my point is made in the subhead) https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2023/6/6/23751456/bears-doing-business-in-a-new-way-kevin-warren-mccaskey-halas

(03-03-2024 05:38 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:01 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 11:43 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNCCH isn't going anywhere. So many seem to think that the Board of Governors approval requirement is all about NCSU. It actually is at least as much if not more about the economy of the State of North Carolina. The BOG are made up of economic/political behind the scenes movers and shakers. Each of them has a vested interest in economic wellbeing and growth of the state. Each of them are beholding to the North Carolina General Assembly who appoint them. The 4 North Carolina based schools are important economic engines for the state with 3 major hospital systems, agricultural investment, major research, industrial development, etc. etc. In addition the ACC headquartered in the state creates major economic infusions with more than half the ACC events taking place here. That's tourist dollars, taxes paid, etc. Should UNCCH leave the ACC the conference would be weakened significantly and in fact at risk complete failure. The domino effect is fairly obvious with even a few minutes of reflection. So the BOG isn't going to be looking so much at keeping NCSU whole, but rather keeping the economy of the State of North Carolina whole. Therefore I believe that there is no financial plan that UNCCH can present to the BOG that they will approve. The ripples that will move outward from a UNCCH departure to the SEC or B10 are just too great and too negative for it to be allowed. The incentives that the state awarded to the ACC for keeping their HQ in the state are just chicken feed compared to the benefits the taxpayers receive having a strong healthy ACC centered in our state.

IMO, a weakened ACC would essentially have zero impact on the economy of the state of North Carolina.

I agree that the four state ACC schools are important economic engines for the state, but IMO if suddenly three of them were to move to the Sun Belt conference this again would have basically no impact on the state economy. The link between what athletic conference a school plays in on that is IMO vanishingly small. Regardless of conference, NC State will still do all the research and hospital work it currently does, and Duke and Wake Forest will remain elite and quasi-elite private universities.

So IMO, this move, and the recent sabre-rattling by legislators and the governor about wanting UNC and NCST in the same conference is probably 99% about protecting NC State.

Plus, even if I am wrong about the above, IMO it is a futile effort anyway. If FSU and Clemson and Miami were to leave, the ACC, already demoted to an M2 conference, would likely slip into quasi-G league territory anyway even if UNC were to remain.

So again, IMO this is another shot fired across the bow about protecting NC State.

You missed the point.

Eh, you seemed to emphasize the importance to the BOG powers of keeping the state economy whole. So I addressed, or tried to address, that aspect of that - IMO there is nothing significant about the state economy that depends on whether NC State, Duke and WF are in a "power" athletic conference or not.

Which takes me then back to ... protecting NC State.

Just MO.

It's about the interconnectivity of business, academics and government. The point is that the BOG aren't just thinking about football. They are thinking about the state economy and how it can best serve their and the taxpayers interests. An increased athletic department budget for UNCCH is small potatoes in the grand scheme. Sure they want to go back to their hometowns and say, "Go Pack", or "I bleed Carolina Blue". But that's just theatrics. They actually want to meet with the CEOs of food distribution businesses, hotel chains, transportation services, local government officals etc. and say we've got 42 events locked up over the next 2 years that will mean profits, jobs, and opportunities to your community. And we can expect this to continue into the foreseeable future.

Yeah, I agree that there is interconnectivity between business, academic and government. I just don't think those connections depend on whether the state of North Carolina has four schools in an athletically "power" ACC or not. I agree that the B1G or SEC increase for UNC athletics is small potatoes, but I also think that the decline in money for the athletic budgets of NCST, WF and Duke (should UNC leave the ACC and the ACC drop down to G-level) is small potatoes as well.

IMO, regardless of what conferences those schools are in, they will still play their same roles academically and in terms of partnering with businesses and government. The universities aren't going anywhere even if their athletics are diminished in a rump ACC or a move to the Sun Belt. I don't believe profits or jobs to any appreciable degree depend on that. IMO the NC economy would not "notice" in a big picture sense, any appreciable impact from the loss of things like the laundry list of ACC championships that are to be held in the conference. The vast majority of those lose money and very few people travel for them, I think, not enough to matter to the state economy.

A tell for me about that is why would the other members of the ACC agree to have the ACC sign a deal for a paltry $15m subsidy from NC if it means all those valuable conference events are in NC? If those events brought in a lot of travel money for hotels, restaurants, etc. then if I was Pitt or Syracuse or any other non-NC school, I'd want those things spread around to my state rather than NC getting all the benefits. But if there are no real benefits, then sure, let them all happen in North Carolina.

I also don't think any taxpayer implications are on the line either. Heck, in this case the taxpayers are giving the ACC $15 million, cold cash. IMO they tend to lose when it comes to interactions with athletics, be it college or pro.

Also, even if they (the profits, jobs, taxpayers etc) do depend on that, IMO if UNC is in a position to leave the ACC, then that would mean that FSU has escaped, and it likely means Clemson and Miami are gone as well. In which case, the ACC will be significantly diminished anyway, even if UNC were to stay. So IMO the choice would be "three schools in a diminished ACC and one in a P2 league, or all four in a diminished ACC", and logic says the former is better.

So to me, these actions we've seen out of NC governing bodies to emphasize that they want the schools to stay in the same conference are designed to protect NC State. IMO these state powers know that UNC is desired by the SEC and B1G, while NC State is not, and that is where the danger lies. It is an attempt to ward that off, IMO. NC State stands to lose significant athletic money and prestige if that happens, there aren't IMO any appreciable broader implications.

Just MO.

(03-04-2024 12:54 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Big picture $15M is small compared to the hundreds of millions exiting teams will be paying the ACC. If anything the ACC can dump that on an exiting North Carolina's penalty because it constitutes direct real damages.

...Sankey & Company are rounding up the change from under the Birmingham HQ couch cushions as we speak...

(03-04-2024 10:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 08:23 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 08:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The ACC has the problems it faces because they've always thought too small and provincially.

The very definition of a mom and pop shop

A mom and pop shop with its own network that stretches from Boston to Miami to the San Francisco Bay. Whatever you say

Yep, and in less than a handful of years that will have as much impact as a store in 1981 advertising they were they exclusive local sellers of Betamax players.

(03-03-2024 05:59 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:16 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  IMO, a weakened ACC would essentially have zero impact on the economy of the state of North Carolina.

I agree that the four state ACC schools are important economic engines for the state, but IMO if suddenly three of them were to move to the Sun Belt conference this again would have basically no impact on the state economy. The link between what athletic conference a school plays in on that is IMO vanishingly small.

So IMO, this move, and the recent sabre-rattling by legislators and the governor about wanting UNC and NCST in the same conference is probably 99% about protecting NC State.

It's simply about control Quo. Clearly the state economy would be better with SEC and Big 10 travel crowds coming in and TV exposure more directly in the SE and SW and in the Northern Midwest. There must be some political advantage they believe they have to want to pursue this from such an awkward tack and my bet is the bureaucracy of the Board of Regents period. Perhaps they fear that if the ACC headquarters were gone, and/or their top schools divided among several larger entities that somehow the necessity of their positions would be diminished.

How many events do you think the SEC or B10 will host in North Carolina if one or two of their members are from the state? I'm guessing zero. How many events do you think the ACC will host in North Carolina if it is the center of the conference with 4 members from the state, and with an economic agreement for a large number guaranteed to be held here?

The SECN is already based in Charlotte and the SEC is pretty good about hosting events in its member states. The point is 4 maybe 5 games a year by each school in the SEC or Big 10 would be played in North Carolina and that is a pile of out of state people flying into to North Carolina, or driving in to buy hotel rooms, eat at restaurants, and buy stuff while they are there. And that's out of state money flowing in, not Virginia and South Carolina people popping in and leaving after the game, and not a 4 schools worth of alums driving home after a nearby event when the 4 in state schools play each other now.

Compare that to this, and I think you will concede my point.

The ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament will take place in North Carolina for five consecutive years from 2025 to 2029. The historical postseason tournament will alternate years, taking place at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte in 2025, 2026, and 2028, and at the Greensboro Coliseum in 2027 and 2029. No venue has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament more than the Greensboro Coliseum, and 2027 will mark the 30th time. The City of Charlotte has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament on 13 occasions.

The ACC Women’s Basketball Tournament will also split time between Charlotte and Greensboro, as the women’s tournament will tip off in the Greensboro Coliseum in 2024 and 2025. In 2027, the longest-running DI conference women’s basketball tournament in the country will be held at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte.

Like the men’s and women’s basketball championships, the ACC Baseball Championship will also alternate sites over the next six years. Starting this spring, the baseball conference championship will be hosted at Truist Field in Charlotte in 2024, 2026, and 2028, while Durham and the Durham Bulls Athletic Park will host the championship event in 2025, 2027, and 2029.

In addition to basketball, the Greensboro Coliseum Complex will also host men’s and women’s swimming and diving as well as gymnastics. The Greensboro Aquatic Center will host the ACC Men’s and Women’s Swimming & Diving Championships in five of the next six years – 2024, 2025, 2027, 2028, and 2029. The ACC Gymnastics Championship will be held three straight years – 2024, 2025, and 2026 – at the Greensboro Coliseum.

Charlotte is the host city for both the ACC Men’s and Women’s Lacrosse Championships beginning this spring and running through 2028. Both events will be held at the American Legion Memorial Stadium.

The ACC Women’s Soccer Championship and the ACC Men’s Soccer Championship will continue to be held at WakeMed Soccer Park in Cary through the 2029 season.
The Cary Tennis Park will continue to host the ACC Women’s and Men’s Tennis Championships from 2024 through 2029.

Lake Wheeler Park in Raleigh will host the ACC Rowing Championship in five of the next seven years, including 2024, 2026, 2027, 2029, and 2030, while the ACC Women’s Golf Championship will be played on a variety of McConnell Golf properties throughout the Southeast through 2029. The 2024 event will be held in Wilmington at Porters Neck Country Club, while the 2025, 2027, and 2029 tournaments will take place at Sedgefield Country Club in Greensboro.

LOL, but, but...what about ALL of those huge Big Ten fan bases that keeps College Park bursting at the seams!!??

Maryland Average Home Attendance 10 years prior to B10: 45,572
Maryland Average Home Attendance 10 years since the B10: 39,145 (COVID year excluded)