(06-24-2023 11:57 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote: Hard to know what to think here. This group is a paid mercenary army by Putin led by a very famous Russian General that has turned on the Russian military leaders and demanding an audience with them, but seems to be avoiding any discussions about Putin or ousting him.
There is no denying its a challenge to his reign at some level but its all still very foggy at the moment.
Some recent reports have Putins tone towards this group softening some but still calling on them to stand down.
Prigozhin wants the Russians to believe he backs Putin because most Russians like Putin. But in the end if he is successful Putin will be out the window literally speaking. Still there is no guarantees who will end up in control. Many times the leaders of the revolution don’t become the leader post revolution.
Looks like the Putin regime is in serious trouble at the moment.
(06-24-2023 11:41 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: Start a dumb war of aggression.
Ignore logistics and supplies.
Let an oligarch start a mercenary army with conscripts from prisons and then rely upon them strategically.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
And Wagner Groupe can't be better than Putin. We don't know what's going on for sure, but a neo-nazi mercenary mob should never be celebrated, specially if their boss is a russian oligarch...
Some are so blindly invested in this war that they can't see past bring down Putin no matter what becomes of the aftermath.
Personally I'm more comfortable with Putin in power that some unknown group of mercenaries. He's been there 20+ years, we know how he operates.
I wouldnt be surprised if you end up with both. Putin remains in charge---but Prigohin becomes his new Defense Minister and much of the current high level defense leadership gets removed from power and scape goated for the Ukraine debacle.
If that happens that would lead me to believe we can expect further aggressions from Russia in the near future.
Maybe. Maybe not. A huge part of Prigozhin's rant was that Ukraine did not start the war---that there were never any Nazis---and that Ukraine did not intentionally bomb civilians in Donbas (were always aiming at military targets). He said the upper levels of the military fed that inaccurate stuff to Putin to get their war. That would seem to indicated that Prigozhin's beliefs might give Putin the off ramp narrative he needs to get out of this war and still save face. As isolated as Putin has become----it may even be true for all we know. Of course, peace in Ukraine doesnt mean Russia might not start causing issues elsewhere---so your prediction could still end up ultimately being right.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2023 12:21 PM by Attackcoog.)
(06-24-2023 11:55 AM)Curumim Wrote: And Wagner Groupe can't be better than Putin. We don't know what's going on for sure, but a neo-nazi mercenary mob should never be celebrated, specially if their boss is a russian oligarch...
Some are so blindly invested in this war that they can't see past bring down Putin no matter what becomes of the aftermath.
Personally I'm more comfortable with Putin in power that some unknown group of mercenaries. He's been there 20+ years, we know how he operates.
I wouldnt be surprised if you end up with both. Putin remains in charge---but Prigohin becomes his new Defense Minister and much of the current high level defense leadership gets removed from power and scape goated for the Ukraine debacle.
If that happens that would lead me to believe we can expect further aggressions from Russia in the near future.
Maybe. Maybe not. A huge part of Prigozhin's rant was that Ukraine did not start the war---that there were never any Nazis---and that Ukraine did not intentionally bomb civilians in Donbas (were always aiming at military targets). He said the upper levels of the military fed that inaccurate stuff to Putin to get their war. That would seem to indicated that Prigozhin's beliefs might give Putin the off ramp narrative he needs to get out of this war and still save face. As isolated as Putin has become----it may even be true for all we know. Of course, peace in Ukraine doesnt mean Russia might not start causing issues elsewhere---so your prediction could still end up ultimately being right.
I don't claim to be an expert on Prigozhin but he does have a history of statements about recreating the Soviet Union by force.
And its a little hard to swallow that a paid mercenary would bring a more peaceful Russia in the end, even if he is against the war in Ukraine. Doesn't mean he is againt war in other regions or countries.
For all we know he just thinks its a waste to use their resources in Ukraine when they should be used elsewhere.
But as you say maybe and maybe not. Who knows at this point.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2023 12:35 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
The Chechnya fighters are ruthless, but subpar in actual battle skills. They're similar to the tribal fighters in afghanistan who rely on their god to keep them alive. Wild & unpredictable enough to be dangerous, but more suited for insurgency as opposed to defending or trench type warfare. Certainly wouldn't want to be captured by them.
So many on the right have been carrying the water for Putin in belief a Putin win would be good for them, politically. Instead, it looks like they bet against the US & put their money on the wrong horse. At some point, propaganda has got to be back up, and it’s apparent Russia is the hollowed out paper tiger we were always told they were.
(06-24-2023 11:26 AM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote: Some one do a wellness check on Todor.
(06-24-2023 11:41 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: Start a dumb war of aggression.
Ignore logistics and supplies.
Let an oligarch start a mercenary army with conscripts from prisons and then rely upon them strategically.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
(06-24-2023 11:48 AM)Attackcoog Wrote: And so it begins----Apparently there is reason to believe Wagner attempting to seize a nuclear weapons storage facility. I saw a report 3 or 4 days ago that the US nuclear posture had been raised----I thought little of it because it was based on little more than large increase in the kind of special coded communications required for nuclear weapons use. In retrospect---it seems like the report may have been more legit than I believed. Perhaps US intelligence got word this was coming several days ago?
They already do. Wagner has control of the Southern Military District headquarters in Rostov. The SMD has an allotment of nukes. Even if he had the ability to use them, Prigozhin wouldn't. There's even less chance of him doing so than Putin.
So many on the right have been carrying the water for Putin in belief a Putin win would be good for them, politically. Instead, it looks like they bet against the US & put their money on the wrong horse. At some point, propaganda has got to be back up, and it’s apparent Russia is the hollowed out paper tiger we were always told they were.
You're an obvious liar and always have been.
All a person has to do is say we should not be involved in this war and you mindless idiots call them a "water carrier" for Putin.
All you and people like you ever have is lies, lies and more lies.
If true (Coog's last post) its going to be a major letdown for the left and the war mongers of the deep state. They were salivating over the overthrow of Putin, even if Joseph Stalin himself took his place.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2023 01:27 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
when the "war" was becoming more and more imminent with Russia piling up on the borders, I thought under no circumstances should we get involved. After it started and with assistance from the "west" Ukraine was able to hold them off and show just how weak Russia really is, I changed my mind to... ok, send them all of our outdated, stored weaponry that we probably need to get rid of anyway, but other than that stay out of it.
It progressed way past that. I have no interest in financially supporting their war, or giving them access to any state of the art weaponry. They have done enough damage to Russia already to put them back at the kid's table for a generation.
