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Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
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GTFletch Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-02-2023 11:34 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  I still don't see all of that.

Adding Texas and Oklahoma almost got rid of some of the very best, oldest rivalries in college football. The playoff is at 12 teams, which means the regular season barely matters to the elite of elite teams: Alabama won't be on watch until they have two losses at this point.

The only reason left to watch college football is the rivalries, and taking away the opportunity to watch Alabama vs. Tennessee so we can see Alabama vs. UNC and Tennessee vs. Clemson will only diminish the product. So what is the point of adding more?

The SEC is on top. UNC and UVA might be revenue-neutral additions. Clemson is a money-loser. Florida State may be cash positive if they can retain their former glory, but they have only ended the season ranked one of the last six years while playing in a watered down ACC.

So what's the point?

We know that in 2021 ESPN paid SEC $802M [$55M from CBS] and ACC $617M that is $1.4B (in 2021) per year for both leagues, at what point does ESPN want to just merge the two and create a true super league?
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2023 11:43 AM by GTFletch.)
06-02-2023 11:42 AM
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OneSockUp Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-02-2023 11:42 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  We know that in 2021 ESPN paid SEC $802M [$55M from CBS] and ACC $617M that is $1.4B (in 2021) per year for both leagues, at what point does ESPN want to just merge the two and create a true super league?
First off: ESPN doesn't run the SEC.

Secondly: The SEC is already a superleague.

Finally: The SEC won't take a pay cut to include programs they don't want to be associated with. So unless ESPN is going to pay more to all parties, why in the world would the conferences agree to that?

We talk about how the ACC is burdened by their GOR, but so is ESPN. They have to pay Wake Forest and Pitt $35,000,000 every year for the next decade.
06-02-2023 11:57 AM
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Porcine Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-02-2023 11:34 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 11:19 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 09:53 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Is a merger possible? Perhaps
Is a merger likely? I don’t think so.

Likelihood of YES answer to the following question:

"We are free to leave the ACC. May we have an invite Mr. Sankey?"

SECret 7:
FSU: 100%
Clemson: 100%
UNC: 100%
UVA: 100%
NC State: 50-75%: (Depends on UNC)
VA Tech: 50-75%: (Depends of UVA)
Miami: 50% (Is keeping the B1G out of SoFla a thing or not?)

Middle 4
Duke: 50-75%: (See NC State/VA Tech)
Georgia Tech: ~50% (Is keeping the B1G out of ATL a thing or not?)
Louisville: 15% (probably should be 1.5%)
Pitt: 0.5% (feeling generous)

Other 3:
Syracuse: Same as Bluto Blutarsky's GPA at Faber: "Zero.Point.Zero"
Boston College: 0%
Wake Forest: 0%

Standoffish 1:
Sankey: "If we offer you an all-sports membership, will you accept."
Swarbrick: "No"
Sankey: "OK then. We won't be offering."

I still don't see all of that.

Adding Texas and Oklahoma almost got rid of some of the very best, oldest rivalries in college football. The playoff is at 12 teams, which means the regular season barely matters to the elite of elite teams: Alabama won't be on watch until they have two losses at this point.

The only reason left to watch college football is the rivalries, and taking away the opportunity to watch Alabama vs. Tennessee so we can see Alabama vs. UNC and Tennessee vs. Clemson will only diminish the product. So what is the point of adding more?

The SEC is on top. UNC and UVA might be revenue-neutral additions. Clemson is a money-loser. Florida State may be cash positive if they can retain their former glory, but they have only ended the season ranked one of the last six years while playing in a watered down ACC.

So what's the point?
With a merger, we have all the rivalries. Pay everyone what they are getting paid now. The GOR may not even matter as I doubt anyone would want to leave. Maybe later get WV for the Backyard Brawl, then UCONN and Kansas to dominate sports year round.
06-02-2023 12:22 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
I’m sure ESPN would love to have both conferences permanently under 1 management control still keeping the current conference divisions with more crossover games for high visibility broadcasts like MLB and the NFL with American and National separations but still having many scheduled crossover games. You still keep rival games intact and visit new locations each year with maybe too 2in each division meeting to see whom plays for the championship
06-02-2023 01:53 PM
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RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-02-2023 11:57 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 11:42 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  We know that in 2021 ESPN paid SEC $802M [$55M from CBS] and ACC $617M that is $1.4B (in 2021) per year for both leagues, at what point does ESPN want to just merge the two and create a true super league?
First off: ESPN doesn't run the SEC.

Secondly: The SEC is already a superleague.

Finally: The SEC won't take a pay cut to include programs they don't want to be associated with. So unless ESPN is going to pay more to all parties, why in the world would the conferences agree to that?

We talk about how the ACC is burdened by their GOR, but so is ESPN. They have to pay Wake Forest and Pitt $35,000,000 every year for the next decade.

The point is that you don't let the Big 10 grow nationally around you and then grow into your markets. ESPN knows this. The SEC knows this. It is why we took the best to our West. ESPN wanted them, as they wanted all of the prime product from Virginia to Kansas and South. The SEC wanted Texas, Oklahoma and Texas A&M in '91. We now have them to go with Arkansas and added Missouri as well (ESPN suggestion). No champion has come from North of that line except Ohio State for the last 25 years. No champion has come from West of that line since the title stripped from USC.

Now while the SEC's success has been tremendous and we are a Super Conference, what helped to make that was not lost on ESPN. ESPN holds 100% rights to the ACC, SEC, and AAC. They hold 50% rights to the Big 12 plus T3 and now have all of their best brands under 100% contract in the SEC except for Kansas (which could eventually head our way). They don't own all of the access to Texas, but they hold the dominant access to Texas.

So the question of why a merger? Because it locks down the East Coast access into the South which vulnerable brands may be tempted to be a part of in a FOX/Big 10 move into the two best regional markets for college sports in the whole damn nation. If ESPN can hold onto that, and tie it up longer, they will monopolize the product likely to make up over 1/3rd of the entrants into the CFP and the most of the recent champions in college softball, baseball, women's gymnastics, and a very decent percentage of hoops champions and have them under their umbrella.

You see ESPN has followed demographics for decades and they know where the lion's share of recruits come from, and where they stay to play in front of momma and friends and family. They know that these two regions (SE & SW) have the highest viewer saturation numbers in the nation (more actual viewers to total possible viewers than anywhere else). If college sports is their business, and it is, these two regions combined are the best product they could hold.

What's the SEC's interest? They dominate the regions now. They dominate college football championships, but they don't dominate the media money. The more markets the Big 10 adds the more money they have for pay for play, and they have corporate sponsorship for NIL which is why Michigan finally made solid strides these past two years. If they enter the Southeast that impacts our advertising and media money. Let that sink into the fan brain. Defensive moves to secure what the SEC and I might add ESPN have carefully built up is not a farfetched, AD laughable, issue. It is a very real threat to the influence the SEC has built up in its region. If taking in the ACC locks down that influence for a very long time why not do it? They are systemically cousins anyway. They too came out of the old Southern Conference.

To do it you obviously can't let it detract from the SEC's revenue. But if 7 schools have been kind of allowed to serve notice to the ACC, let ESPN pay them more, perhaps a couple at SEC levels, 4-6 more at a lesser tier, and then hold payments where they are currently for the rest.

If the move doesn't impact the SEC's bottom line, keeps an unwanted presence out of our region, and wholly lock up the regionalism around which the SEC was built, why not do it. To do nothing is like Chamberlain declaring peace in our time after meeting with Hitler. You know the war is coming. Are you going to wait until they chase your butt off of the French beaches to do something about it?

The Alliance was declared and Hitler still took the Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia, and Poland, um, I meant USC and UCLA gutting a fellow Alliance member, promising scheduling arrangement to the ACC which disappeared as soon as USC and UCLA appeared. Now he wants a warm water port in Miami and outpost in major Southern markets like Atlanta, Raleigh/Durham and into states like Virginia.

If the SEC sits idly by while this happens it will lose its advantages, some of its revenue, and you the fan will be howling why didn't we do something.

We have two options to do something.

1. We go a bit more national. The SEC adds Colorado, the Arizona Schools and Kansas and extends the broadcast window into Mountain Time Zone which also airs through the Arizona schools in the Pacific Time Zone. That's more broadcast windows which means more money. But that sure as hell isn't SEC!

2. We figure out a way to merge the ACC with the SEC stabilizing the schools in the ACC which are most likely to be tempted by a Big 10 offer. We merge the ACCN into the SECN and make prime rate in all of those combined states saving ESPN overhead costs and making us more T3 revenue. We extend SEC interest via the ACC merger into Pennsylvania, New York and Massachusetts. We add Kansas to the West where with Missouri they extend into the Chicago market. We give Notre Dame the same affiliation with the merged group as they have now and use the Irish to extend the SECN into Northern Midwestern cities held by the Big 10. We lock them out of the two strongest recruiting regions in the nation and we continue to win until the nation sees the SEC as the Supreme Conference. Just with Clemson and Florida State the SEC would hold 22 of the last 25 national championships in College football. Then we wait. Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State have 100,000 seat stadia they need filled. When they want in we have the one League we are headed toward. USC, Washington, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska may wish to join as well.

This is the game. And while it seems unnecessary for an SEC with Texas and Oklahoma to need anyone else, that is merely a mirage. Merge with the ACC and nothing can surround us, sap our strength, impact our markets, or damage our revenue. And that folks is why this has merit. It doesn't mean it's going to happen, but it would be a wise and powerful move if it did!

Oh, and one other thing. When Texas and Oklahoma joined the SEC it gave the SEC a 3 billion dollar lead in total valuation over the Big 10. Only Notre Dame plus Washington or Kansas can help them catch up in those totals and then they would trail by 1.5 billion. My point over such an obscure data point? They can't catch us unless they go national and can only outgain us by splitting our markets to damage us. This isn't an "if the Big 10 goes national" it is a "the Big 10 has to go national" or they could lose schools to us. So they will absolutely try to invade the Southern markets. They have no other option.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2023 09:54 PM by JRsec.)
06-02-2023 02:05 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-02-2023 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 11:57 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 11:42 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  We know that in 2021 ESPN paid SEC $802M [$55M from CBS] and ACC $617M that is $1.4B (in 2021) per year for both leagues, at what point does ESPN want to just merge the two and create a true super league?
First off: ESPN doesn't run the SEC.

Secondly: The SEC is already a superleague.

Finally: The SEC won't take a pay cut to include programs they don't want to be associated with. So unless ESPN is going to pay more to all parties, why in the world would the conferences agree to that?

We talk about how the ACC is burdened by their GOR, but so is ESPN. They have to pay Wake Forest and Pitt $35,000,000 every year for the next decade.

The point is that you don't let the Big 10 grow nationally around you and then grow into your markets. ESPN knows this. The SEC knows this. It is why we took the best to our West. ESPN wanted them, as they wanted all of the prime product from Virginia to Kansas and South. The SEC wanted Texas, Oklahoma and Texas A&M in '91. We now have them to go with Arkansas and added Missouri as well (ESPN suggestion). No champion has come from North of that line except Ohio State for the last 25 years. No champion has come from West of that line since the title stripped from USC.

Now while the SEC's success has been tremendous and we are a Super Conference, what helped to make that was not lost on ESPN. ESPN holds 100% rights to the ACC, SEC, and AAC. They hold 50% rights to the Big 10 plus T3 and now have all of their best brands under 100% contract in the SEC except for Kansas (which could eventually head our way). They don't own all of the access to Texas, but they hold the dominant access to Texas.

So the question of why a merger? Because it locks down the East Coast access into the South which vulnerable brands may be tempted to be a part of in a FOX/Big 10 move into the two best regional markets for college sports in the whole damn nation. If ESPN can hold onto that, and tie it up longer, they will monopolize the product likely to make up over 1/3rd of the entrants into the CFP and the most of the recent champions in college softball, baseball, women's gymnastics, and a very decent percentage of hoops champions and have them under their umbrella.

You see ESPN has followed demographics for decades and they know where the lion's share of recruits come from, and where they stay to play in front of momma and friends and family. They know that these two regions (SE & SW) have the highest viewer saturation numbers in the nation (more actual viewers to total possible viewers than anywhere else). If college sports is their business, and it is, these two regions combined are the best product they could hold.

What's the SEC's interest? They dominate the regions now. They dominate college football championships, but they don't dominate the media money. The more markets the Big 10 adds the more money they have for pay for play, and they have corporate sponsorship for NIL which is why Michigan finally made solid strides these past two years. If they enter the Southeast that impacts our advertising and media money. Let that sink into the fan brain. Defensive moves to secure what the SEC and I might add ESPN have carefully built up is not a farfetched, AD laughable, issue. It is a very real threat to the influence the SEC has built up in its region. If taking in the ACC locks down that influence for a very long time why not do it? They are systemically cousins anyway. They too came out of the old Southern Conference.

To do it you obviously can't let it detract from the SEC's revenue. But if 7 schools have been kind of allowed to serve notice to the ACC, let ESPN pay them more, perhaps a couple at SEC levels, 4-6 more at a lesser tier, and then hold payments where they are currently for the rest.

If the move doesn't impact the SEC's bottom line, keeps an unwanted presence out of our region, and wholly lock up the regionalism around which the SEC was built, why not do it. To do nothing is like Chamberlain declaring peace in our time after meeting with Hitler. You know the war is coming. Are you going to wait until they chase your butt off of the French beaches to do something about it?

The Alliance was declared and Hitler still took the Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia, and Poland, um, I meant USC and UCLA gutting a fellow Alliance member, promising scheduling arrangement to the ACC which disappeared as soon as USC and UCLA appeared. Now he wants a warm water port in Miami and outpost in major Southern markets like Atlanta, Raleigh/Durham and into states like Virginia.

If the SEC sits idly by while this happens it will lose its advantages, some of its revenue, and you the fan will be howling why didn't we do something.

We have two options to do something.

1. We go a bit more national. The SEC adds Colorado, the Arizona Schools and Kansas and extends the broadcast window into Mountain Time Zone which also airs through the Arizona schools in the Pacific Time Zone. That's more broadcast windows which means more money. But that sure as hell isn't SEC!

2. We figure out a way to merge the ACC with the SEC stabilizing the schools in the ACC which are most likely to be tempted by a Big 10 offer. We merge the ACCN into the SECN and make prime rate in all of those combined states saving ESPN overhead costs and making us more T3 revenue. We extend SEC interest via the ACC merger into Pennsylvania, New York and Massachusetts. We add Kansas to the West where with Missouri they extend into the Chicago market. We give Notre Dame the same affiliation with the merged group as they have now and use the Irish to extend the SECN into Northern Midwestern cities held by the Big 10. We lock them out of the two strongest recruiting regions in the nation and we continue to win until the nation sees the SEC as the Supreme Conference. Just with Clemson and Florida State the SEC would hold 22 of the last 25 national championships in College football. Then we wait. Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State have 100,000 seat stadia they need filled. When they want in we have the one League we are headed toward. USC, Washington, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska may wish to join as well.

This is the game. And while it seems unnecessary for an SEC with Texas and Oklahoma to need anyone else, that is merely a mirage. Merge with the ACC and nothing can surround us, sap our strength, impact our markets, or damage our revenue. And that folks is why this has merit. It doesn't mean it's going to happen, but it would be a wise and powerful move if it did!

Oh, and one other thing. When Texas and Oklahoma joined the SEC it game the SEC a 3 billion dollar lead in total valuation over the Big 10. Only Notre Dame plus Washington or Kansas can help them catch up in those totals and then they would trail by 1.5 billion. My point over such an obscure data point? They can't catch us unless they go national and can only outgain us by splitting our markets to damage us. This isn't an "if the Big 10 goes national" it is a "the Big 10 has to go national" or they could lose schools to us. So they will absolutely try to invade the Southern markets. They have no other option.

A little ways down the road, but PSU could be the first target when the big northward advance begins. The SEC Army would pass by UMd and wave hello. “We’re after bigger game today”
06-02-2023 04:50 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-02-2023 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 11:57 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 11:42 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  We know that in 2021 ESPN paid SEC $802M [$55M from CBS] and ACC $617M that is $1.4B (in 2021) per year for both leagues, at what point does ESPN want to just merge the two and create a true super league?
First off: ESPN doesn't run the SEC.

Secondly: The SEC is already a superleague.

Finally: The SEC won't take a pay cut to include programs they don't want to be associated with. So unless ESPN is going to pay more to all parties, why in the world would the conferences agree to that?

We talk about how the ACC is burdened by their GOR, but so is ESPN. They have to pay Wake Forest and Pitt $35,000,000 every year for the next decade.

The point is that you don't let the Big 10 grow nationally around you and then grow into your markets. ESPN knows this. The SEC knows this. It is why we took the best to our West. ESPN wanted them, as they wanted all of the prime product from Virginia to Kansas and South. The SEC wanted Texas, Oklahoma and Texas A&M in '91. We now have them to go with Arkansas and added Missouri as well (ESPN suggestion). No champion has come from North of that line except Ohio State for the last 25 years. No champion has come from West of that line since the title stripped from USC.

Now while the SEC's success has been tremendous and we are a Super Conference, what helped to make that was not lost on ESPN. ESPN holds 100% rights to the ACC, SEC, and AAC. They hold 50% rights to the Big 10 plus T3 and now have all of their best brands under 100% contract in the SEC except for Kansas (which could eventually head our way). They don't own all of the access to Texas, but they hold the dominant access to Texas.

So the question of why a merger? Because it locks down the East Coast access into the South which vulnerable brands may be tempted to be a part of in a FOX/Big 10 move into the two best regional markets for college sports in the whole damn nation. If ESPN can hold onto that, and tie it up longer, they will monopolize the product likely to make up over 1/3rd of the entrants into the CFP and the most of the recent champions in college softball, baseball, women's gymnastics, and a very decent percentage of hoops champions and have them under their umbrella.

You see ESPN has followed demographics for decades and they know where the lion's share of recruits come from, and where they stay to play in front of momma and friends and family. They know that these two regions (SE & SW) have the highest viewer saturation numbers in the nation (more actual viewers to total possible viewers than anywhere else). If college sports is their business, and it is, these two regions combined are the best product they could hold.

What's the SEC's interest? They dominate the regions now. They dominate college football championships, but they don't dominate the media money. The more markets the Big 10 adds the more money they have for pay for play, and they have corporate sponsorship for NIL which is why Michigan finally made solid strides these past two years. If they enter the Southeast that impacts our advertising and media money. Let that sink into the fan brain. Defensive moves to secure what the SEC and I might add ESPN have carefully built up is not a farfetched, AD laughable, issue. It is a very real threat to the influence the SEC has built up in its region. If taking in the ACC locks down that influence for a very long time why not do it? They are systemically cousins anyway. They too came out of the old Southern Conference.

To do it you obviously can't let it detract from the SEC's revenue. But if 7 schools have been kind of allowed to serve notice to the ACC, let ESPN pay them more, perhaps a couple at SEC levels, 4-6 more at a lesser tier, and then hold payments where they are currently for the rest.

If the move doesn't impact the SEC's bottom line, keeps an unwanted presence out of our region, and wholly lock up the regionalism around which the SEC was built, why not do it. To do nothing is like Chamberlain declaring peace in our time after meeting with Hitler. You know the war is coming. Are you going to wait until they chase your butt off of the French beaches to do something about it?

The Alliance was declared and Hitler still took the Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia, and Poland, um, I meant USC and UCLA gutting a fellow Alliance member, promising scheduling arrangement to the ACC which disappeared as soon as USC and UCLA appeared. Now he wants a warm water port in Miami and outpost in major Southern markets like Atlanta, Raleigh/Durham and into states like Virginia.

If the SEC sits idly by while this happens it will lose its advantages, some of its revenue, and you the fan will be howling why didn't we do something.

We have two options to do something.

1. We go a bit more national. The SEC adds Colorado, the Arizona Schools and Kansas and extends the broadcast window into Mountain Time Zone which also airs through the Arizona schools in the Pacific Time Zone. That's more broadcast windows which means more money. But that sure as hell isn't SEC!

2. We figure out a way to merge the ACC with the SEC stabilizing the schools in the ACC which are most likely to be tempted by a Big 10 offer. We merge the ACCN into the SECN and make prime rate in all of those combined states saving ESPN overhead costs and making us more T3 revenue. We extend SEC interest via the ACC merger into Pennsylvania, New York and Massachusetts. We add Kansas to the West where with Missouri they extend into the Chicago market. We give Notre Dame the same affiliation with the merged group as they have now and use the Irish to extend the SECN into Northern Midwestern cities held by the Big 10. We lock them out of the two strongest recruiting regions in the nation and we continue to win until the nation sees the SEC as the Supreme Conference. Just with Clemson and Florida State the SEC would hold 22 of the last 25 national championships in College football. Then we wait. Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State have 100,000 seat stadia they need filled. When they want in we have the one League we are headed toward. USC, Washington, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska may wish to join as well.

This is the game. And while it seems unnecessary for an SEC with Texas and Oklahoma to need anyone else, that is merely a mirage. Merge with the ACC and nothing can surround us, sap our strength, impact our markets, or damage our revenue. And that folks is why this has merit. It doesn't mean it's going to happen, but it would be a wise and powerful move if it did!

Oh, and one other thing. When Texas and Oklahoma joined the SEC it gave the SEC a 3 billion dollar lead in total valuation over the Big 10. Only Notre Dame plus Washington or Kansas can help them catch up in those totals and then they would trail by 1.5 billion. My point over such an obscure data point? They can't catch us unless they go national and can only outgain us by splitting our markets to damage us. This isn't an "if the Big 10 goes national" it is a "the Big 10 has to go national" or they could lose schools to us. So they will absolutely try to invade the Southern markets. They have no other option.
Great Points!
06-02-2023 04:57 PM
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OneSockUp Offline
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RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-02-2023 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The point is that you don't let the Big 10 grow nationally around you and then grow into your markets. ESPN knows this. The SEC knows this. It is why we took the best to our West.

The only way another league will catch up to the SEC is if the SEC overextends itself. Literally, that's it.

Eight of the ten best football programs in the nation are in the SEC, and they are all in better shape moving forward than any other programs in the country. Why would they mess with that? For Texas and Oklahoma, sure. But for Clemson and UNC? That's just throwing a lifeline to rivals.
06-02-2023 09:13 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-02-2023 09:13 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The point is that you don't let the Big 10 grow nationally around you and then grow into your markets. ESPN knows this. The SEC knows this. It is why we took the best to our West.

The only way another league will catch up to the SEC is if the SEC overextends itself. Literally, that's it.

Eight of the ten best football programs in the nation are in the SEC, and they are all in better shape moving forward than any other programs in the country. Why would they mess with that? For Texas and Oklahoma, sure. But for Clemson and UNC? That's just throwing a lifeline to rivals.

If you don't know business I can't help you. You can't overextend yourself when the cost of expanding doesn't impact your revenue. ESPN won't over extend either if it pays Clemson, FSU, and UNC the full 75, pays Virginia Tech, Miami, Virginia, N.C. State, Pittsburgh, Louisville, 60 million, and pays the rest what they currently make.

The T3 would go up for all of us.

They calculate the value of 5 Notre Dame T1 games and give them enough for their T1 that they make 75 with the money for the 5 games and their T3 rights.

Maybe you add Kansas and another. Maybe not. Either way ESPN would have its own league and with 50% interest in the Big 12 they have a late night slot filled. The elimination of overhead for the ACC cuts the cost of the moves by half.

Sure, the SEC has the superior conference at 16. But the breadth of market reach can overcome that advantage and do so in revenue. The point of consolidation is bargaining strength for product. We either roughly match numbers or fall behind in that regard. If we have to expand the South is what I prefer because it has absolutely the best fan interest and support.

You also have to remember we are cutting out G5 and FCS games at some point. Duke, Kansas, Wake Forest to a lesser extent, B.C. and Syracuse and Vandy and some of the others provide balance in the win / loss records for an all P schedule. Then those same schools that padded the football schedule anchor the branding for more money in basketball season and add strength to the hoops schedule.

The SEC and ACC athletically and academically compliment one another with each covering some weaknesses of the other.
06-02-2023 10:21 PM
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RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-02-2023 10:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 09:13 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The point is that you don't let the Big 10 grow nationally around you and then grow into your markets. ESPN knows this. The SEC knows this. It is why we took the best to our West.

The only way another league will catch up to the SEC is if the SEC overextends itself. Literally, that's it.

Eight of the ten best football programs in the nation are in the SEC, and they are all in better shape moving forward than any other programs in the country. Why would they mess with that? For Texas and Oklahoma, sure. But for Clemson and UNC? That's just throwing a lifeline to rivals.

If you don't know business I can't help you. You can't overextend yourself when the cost of expanding doesn't impact your revenue. ESPN won't over extend either if it pays Clemson, FSU, and UNC the full 75, pays Virginia Tech, Miami, Virginia, N.C. State, Pittsburgh, Louisville, 60 million, and pays the rest what they currently make.

The T3 would go up for all of us.

They calculate the value of 5 Notre Dame T1 games and give them enough for their T1 that they make 75 with the money for the 5 games and their T3 rights.

Maybe you add Kansas and another. Maybe not. Either way ESPN would have its own league and with 50% interest in the Big 12 they have a late night slot filled. The elimination of overhead for the ACC cuts the cost of the moves by half.

Sure, the SEC has the superior conference at 16. But the breadth of market reach can overcome that advantage and do so in revenue. The point of consolidation is bargaining strength for product. We either roughly match numbers or fall behind in that regard. If we have to expand the South is what I prefer because it has absolutely the best fan interest and support.

You also have to remember we are cutting out G5 and FCS games at some point. Duke, Kansas, Wake Forest to a lesser extent, B.C. and Syracuse and Vandy and some of the others provide balance in the win / loss records for an all P schedule. Then those same schools that padded the football schedule anchor the branding for more money in basketball season and add strength to the hoops schedule.

The SEC and ACC athletically and academically compliment one another with each covering some weaknesses of the other.

I also wonder if ESPN might be "happier" with two "smaller" leagues rather than one "big" league. Would ESPN be concerned that a merged league might have too much power to negotiate a single new contract when the current contracts expire, rather than dealing with two leagues and staggered contact expirations?
06-02-2023 11:25 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-02-2023 11:25 PM)ICThawk Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 10:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 09:13 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The point is that you don't let the Big 10 grow nationally around you and then grow into your markets. ESPN knows this. The SEC knows this. It is why we took the best to our West.

The only way another league will catch up to the SEC is if the SEC overextends itself. Literally, that's it.

Eight of the ten best football programs in the nation are in the SEC, and they are all in better shape moving forward than any other programs in the country. Why would they mess with that? For Texas and Oklahoma, sure. But for Clemson and UNC? That's just throwing a lifeline to rivals.

If you don't know business I can't help you. You can't overextend yourself when the cost of expanding doesn't impact your revenue. ESPN won't over extend either if it pays Clemson, FSU, and UNC the full 75, pays Virginia Tech, Miami, Virginia, N.C. State, Pittsburgh, Louisville, 60 million, and pays the rest what they currently make.

The T3 would go up for all of us.

They calculate the value of 5 Notre Dame T1 games and give them enough for their T1 that they make 75 with the money for the 5 games and their T3 rights.

Maybe you add Kansas and another. Maybe not. Either way ESPN would have its own league and with 50% interest in the Big 12 they have a late night slot filled. The elimination of overhead for the ACC cuts the cost of the moves by half.

Sure, the SEC has the superior conference at 16. But the breadth of market reach can overcome that advantage and do so in revenue. The point of consolidation is bargaining strength for product. We either roughly match numbers or fall behind in that regard. If we have to expand the South is what I prefer because it has absolutely the best fan interest and support.

You also have to remember we are cutting out G5 and FCS games at some point. Duke, Kansas, Wake Forest to a lesser extent, B.C. and Syracuse and Vandy and some of the others provide balance in the win / loss records for an all P schedule. Then those same schools that padded the football schedule anchor the branding for more money in basketball season and add strength to the hoops schedule.

The SEC and ACC athletically and academically compliment one another with each covering some weaknesses of the other.

I also wonder if ESPN might be "happier" with two "smaller" leagues rather than one "big" league. Would ESPN be concerned that a merged league might have too much power to negotiate a single new contract when the current contracts expire, rather than dealing with two leagues and staggered contact expirations?

That fear is effectively neutralized by the fear of losing valuable assets, er...teams to a competitor. What's the whole point of a monopoly?? Zero competition.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2023 11:59 PM by DawgNBama.)
06-02-2023 11:58 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-02-2023 11:25 PM)ICThawk Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 10:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 09:13 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The point is that you don't let the Big 10 grow nationally around you and then grow into your markets. ESPN knows this. The SEC knows this. It is why we took the best to our West.

The only way another league will catch up to the SEC is if the SEC overextends itself. Literally, that's it.

Eight of the ten best football programs in the nation are in the SEC, and they are all in better shape moving forward than any other programs in the country. Why would they mess with that? For Texas and Oklahoma, sure. But for Clemson and UNC? That's just throwing a lifeline to rivals.

If you don't know business I can't help you. You can't overextend yourself when the cost of expanding doesn't impact your revenue. ESPN won't over extend either if it pays Clemson, FSU, and UNC the full 75, pays Virginia Tech, Miami, Virginia, N.C. State, Pittsburgh, Louisville, 60 million, and pays the rest what they currently make.

The T3 would go up for all of us.

They calculate the value of 5 Notre Dame T1 games and give them enough for their T1 that they make 75 with the money for the 5 games and their T3 rights.

Maybe you add Kansas and another. Maybe not. Either way ESPN would have its own league and with 50% interest in the Big 12 they have a late night slot filled. The elimination of overhead for the ACC cuts the cost of the moves by half.

Sure, the SEC has the superior conference at 16. But the breadth of market reach can overcome that advantage and do so in revenue. The point of consolidation is bargaining strength for product. We either roughly match numbers or fall behind in that regard. If we have to expand the South is what I prefer because it has absolutely the best fan interest and support.

You also have to remember we are cutting out G5 and FCS games at some point. Duke, Kansas, Wake Forest to a lesser extent, B.C. and Syracuse and Vandy and some of the others provide balance in the win / loss records for an all P schedule. Then those same schools that padded the football schedule anchor the branding for more money in basketball season and add strength to the hoops schedule.

The SEC and ACC athletically and academically compliment one another with each covering some weaknesses of the other.

I also wonder if ESPN might be "happier" with two "smaller" leagues rather than one "big" league. Would ESPN be concerned that a merged league might have too much power to negotiate a single new contract when the current contracts expire, rather than dealing with two leagues and staggered contact expirations?

Nah, I don't think so. We are headed there anyway, and they know it. Getting the group that you want and feel that you can maximize to the advantage of the network is what is important. For ESPN they figured it right the first time and will ride that horse until it drops. When the SEC/ACC/SWC region is no longer viable for college sports, then college sports will be dead everywhere else. It is the collection to bank on.
06-03-2023 12:48 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-02-2023 11:19 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 09:53 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Is a merger possible? Perhaps
Is a merger likely? I don’t think so.

Likelihood of YES answer to the following question:

"We are free to leave the ACC. May we have an invite Mr. Sankey?"

SECret 7:
FSU: 100%
Clemson: 100%
UNC: 100%
UVA: 100%
NC State: 50-75%: (Depends on UNC)
VA Tech: 50-75%: (Depends of UVA)
Miami: 50% (Is keeping the B1G out of SoFla a thing or not?)

Middle 4
Duke: 50-75%: (See NC State/VA Tech)
Georgia Tech: ~50% (Is keeping the B1G out of ATL a thing or not?)
Louisville: 15% (probably should be 1.5%)
Pitt: 0.5% (feeling generous)

Other 3:
Syracuse: Same as Bluto Blutarsky's GPA at Faber: "Zero.Point.Zero"
Boston College: 0%
Wake Forest: 0%

Standoffish 1:
Sankey: "If we offer you an all-sports membership, will you accept."
Swarbrick: "No"
Sankey: "OK then. We won't be offering."

Looks like you posted this about 10 minutes before the AAU announcement...how things change. New list:

UNC 99%
FSU 95%
Clemson 95%
Miami 90%
UVA 50%
VT 40%
Duke 25%
NC St 10%
All others combined: .1%

Most likely outcome is top 4 to SEC, then B1G probably takes a couple. Another potential outcome is SEC takes top 5 and 1-3 of KU/CU/ASU. Or there could be more of an even split between the P2, with each of us grabbing a few.
06-03-2023 01:34 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
BREAKING NEWS: The SEC and ACC are merging to form a new 30-team conference. Word from SEC headquarters is that this new league will not have divisions for football, but will stick with an 8-game schedule. There is no need for tie-breakers as the new league will just send Alabama and Georgia to the CCG every year...
07-coffee3
06-03-2023 06:42 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
I'll bet ESPN would love to merge the ACC and the SEC.

That would eliminate any legal entanglements of the GORs that both leagues have signed.
Would it be a good deal for the conferences? Probably not.
06-03-2023 07:28 AM
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GarnetAndBlue Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-03-2023 01:34 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 11:19 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 09:53 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Is a merger possible? Perhaps
Is a merger likely? I don’t think so.

Likelihood of YES answer to the following question:

"We are free to leave the ACC. May we have an invite Mr. Sankey?"

SECret 7:
FSU: 100%
Clemson: 100%
UNC: 100%
UVA: 100%
NC State: 50-75%: (Depends on UNC)
VA Tech: 50-75%: (Depends of UVA)
Miami: 50% (Is keeping the B1G out of SoFla a thing or not?)

Middle 4
Duke: 50-75%: (See NC State/VA Tech)
Georgia Tech: ~50% (Is keeping the B1G out of ATL a thing or not?)
Louisville: 15% (probably should be 1.5%)
Pitt: 0.5% (feeling generous)

Other 3:
Syracuse: Same as Bluto Blutarsky's GPA at Faber: "Zero.Point.Zero"
Boston College: 0%
Wake Forest: 0%

Standoffish 1:
Sankey: "If we offer you an all-sports membership, will you accept."
Swarbrick: "No"
Sankey: "OK then. We won't be offering."

Looks like you posted this about 10 minutes before the AAU announcement...how things change. New list:

UNC 99%
FSU 95%
Clemson 95%
Miami 90%
UVA 50%
VT 40%
Duke 25%
NC St 10%
All others combined: .1%

Most likely outcome is top 4 to SEC, then B1G probably takes a couple. Another potential outcome is SEC takes top 5 and 1-3 of KU/CU/ASU. Or there could be more of an even split between the P2, with each of us grabbing a few.

I don’t see Miami getting picked up by the SEC unless it’s part of a merger scenario.
06-03-2023 07:39 AM
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CardFan1 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-03-2023 07:28 AM)XLance Wrote:  I'll bet ESPN would love to merge the ACC and the SEC.

That would eliminate any legal entanglements of the GORs that both leagues have signed.
Would it be a good deal for the conferences? Probably not.

Thinking that there could be something in the works for it. Seems kind of funny that every school that the ACC could have added seem to be on the Big 12 radar. Now they are looking at UConn,Memphis and SMU could be a backfill for the PAC. We never stepped up on the 3 schools from the AAC that the Big 12 got commitment from before finally actually signing their GOR . Maybe it’s already been discussed in back rooms with the SEC and ESPN for the ACC staying out at 14 for a future merger. None of us really know what is actually being discussed in private.
06-03-2023 05:19 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-03-2023 07:28 AM)XLance Wrote:  I'll bet ESPN would love to merge the ACC and the SEC.

That would eliminate any legal entanglements of the GORs that both leagues have signed.
Would it be a good deal for the conferences? Probably not.


The SoCon as it always should have been.

Remove an duplicate set of hungry league office mouths.

Phase in new members and everybody still wins financially.

Monopoly ad rates.

A return to regional scheduling and revitalization of the gate and the season ticket package and traveling sections.

Buses, not planes. Family carpools not family TV gather rounds.

Smash the NCAA tournament to pump up the beleaguered basketball side of the house .... now that you own that side too.
06-04-2023 12:28 AM
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Ragu Offline
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Post: #39
Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
Doubt it. They can pick off the best and leave behind Syracuse ,bc etc instead of a full merge

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06-04-2023 08:20 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Does ESPN want to Merge the SEC & ACC?
(06-02-2023 09:13 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  
(06-02-2023 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The point is that you don't let the Big 10 grow nationally around you and then grow into your markets. ESPN knows this. The SEC knows this. It is why we took the best to our West.

The only way another league will catch up to the SEC is if the SEC overextends itself. Literally, that's it.

Eight of the ten best football programs in the nation are in the SEC, and they are all in better shape moving forward than any other programs in the country. Why would they mess with that? For Texas and Oklahoma, sure. But for Clemson and UNC? That's just throwing a lifeline to rivals.

I agree. The major threat to the SEC, in the short to mid-run at least (in the long run, anything is possible, IMO), is internal, the SEC biting off more than it can chew (overextends itself), and thus destroying its inner culture, which would result in a split.

That's why I think the SEC should stop at 16, and if it does add any more schools, then two at the very most, and only from the southeastern side (e.g., FSU or UNC or UVA), nothing more from the western/Big 12 side.

It's also why I think the SEC is wise to do away with divisions. If you are at 16, and have two eight-school divisions, you basically have two fully-formed eight team football conferences gestating inside of you.
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2023 09:05 AM by quo vadis.)
06-04-2023 09:04 AM
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