I'd like to see a P4x16, even though that ship has sailed IRL.

ACC
East: Duke, NC State, North Carolina, Wake Forest
North: Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
South: Central Florida, Florida, Florida State, Miami-FL
West: Clemson, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina

Big 16
East: Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse
North: Cincinnati, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State
South: Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue
West: Iowa, Iowa State, Minnesota, Wisconsin

Pac-16
East: Houston, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech
North: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
West: California, Stanford, UCLA, USC

SEC
East: Kentucky, Louisville, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
North: Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Nebraska
South: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss
West: Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

I want college sports to come to their senses and do away with NIL and the transfer portal --and go back to the system we grew up and fell in love with.

If the little darlings don't want to receive a free education for participation ---then they have other options

A new governing/enforcement board -----that treats all schools equally LOL--good luck

SEVERE consequences for ANY/ALL schools and COACHES that violate the rules---yes that means North Carolina/Kansas/Duke/Kentucky etc etc --LOL good luck



MEMPHIS GETS IN A CONFERENCE that hasn't been stripped pilfered that still resembles a power conference

(05-21-2023 06:00 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I'd like to see a P4x16, even though that ship has sailed IRL.

ACC
East: Duke, NC State, North Carolina, Wake Forest
North: Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
South: Central Florida, Florida, Florida State, Miami-FL
West: Clemson, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina

Big 16
East: Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse
North: Cincinnati, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State
South: Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue
West: Iowa, Iowa State, Minnesota, Wisconsin

Pac-16
East: Houston, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech
North: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
West: California, Stanford, UCLA, USC

SEC
East: Kentucky, Louisville, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
North: Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Nebraska
South: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss
West: Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Nice! However BYU and TCU are arguably more deserving to be part of the 64 than Washington State and Oregon State. This could be achieved by revising the Pac-16 to be:

East: Houston, Texas, Texas A&M, TCU
North: Oregon, Washington, Utah, BYU
South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Texas Tech
West: California, Stanford, UCLA, USC

(05-21-2023 06:00 PM)DuncanMcShane Wrote:  If the criteria is “what I want”:

Back to the Future (and I know it will never happen)…

Eastern 10
1. Boston College
2. UConn
3. UMass
4. Syracuse
5. Rutgers
6. Maryland
7. West Virginia
8. Penn State
9. Pitt
10. Cincinnati

ACC
1. Virginia
2. Virginia Tech
3. North Carolina
4. NC State
5. Duke
6. Wake Forest
7. Georgia Tech
8. Vanderbilt
9. Tulane
10. Rice
11. TCU
12. SMU

Big 10 (And I mean 10)
1. Michigan
2. Michigan State
3. Ohio State
4. Indiana
5. Purdue
6. Wisconsin
7. Northwestern
8. Illinois
9. Minnesota
10. Iowa

Big 12 (Really, 12)
1. Texas
2. Oklahoma
3. Oklahoma State
4. Texas Tech
5. Baylor
6. Kansas
7. Kansas State
8. Iowa State
9. Nebraska
10. Missouri
11. Colorado
12. Utah

PAC 10 (10!!)
1. USC
2. UCLA
3. Stanford
4. Cal
5. Oregon
6. Oregon State
7. Washington
8. Washington State
9. Arizona
10. Arizona State

SEC
1. Clemson
2. Florida State
3. Miami
4. Florida
5. UCF
6. South Carolina
7. Kentucky
8. Tennessee
9. Alabama
10. Auburn
11. Georgia
12. Ole Miss
13. Mississippi State
14. LSU
15. Arkansas
16. Louisville

Big American
1. Temple
2. ECU
3. USF
4. Memphis
5. Houston
6. BYU
7. Colorado State
8. Air Force
9. Wyoming
10. Utah State
11. Hawaii
12. Fresno State
13. San Diego State
14. San Jose State
15. UNLV
16. Nevada
17. Boise State
18. New Mexico

Sun Belt USA
1. Tulsa
2. UTEP
3. New Mexico State
4. North Texas
5. UTSA
6. Texas State
7. Georgia State
8. Middle Tennessee
9. Western Kentucky
10. UAB
11. Charlotte
12. App State
13. Marshall
14. JMU
15. Liberty
16. Old Dominion
17. Coastal Carolina
18. Florida Atlantic

Independents
1. Notre Dame
2. Army
3. Navy

Where's A&M? They got kicked out of that version of the Big 12 and replaced by Utah. They're not in that SEC, either.

(05-21-2023 08:17 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(05-21-2023 06:00 PM)DuncanMcShane Wrote:  If the criteria is “what I want”:

Back to the Future (and I know it will never happen)…

Eastern 10
1. Boston College
2. UConn
3. UMass
4. Syracuse
5. Rutgers
6. Maryland
7. West Virginia
8. Penn State
9. Pitt
10. Cincinnati

ACC
1. Virginia
2. Virginia Tech
3. North Carolina
4. NC State
5. Duke
6. Wake Forest
7. Georgia Tech
8. Vanderbilt
9. Tulane
10. Rice
11. TCU
12. SMU

Big 10 (And I mean 10)
1. Michigan
2. Michigan State
3. Ohio State
4. Indiana
5. Purdue
6. Wisconsin
7. Northwestern
8. Illinois
9. Minnesota
10. Iowa

Big 12 (Really, 12)
1. Texas
2. Oklahoma
3. Oklahoma State
4. Texas Tech
5. Baylor
6. Kansas
7. Kansas State
8. Iowa State
9. Nebraska
10. Missouri
11. Colorado
12. Utah

PAC 10 (10!!)
1. USC
2. UCLA
3. Stanford
4. Cal
5. Oregon
6. Oregon State
7. Washington
8. Washington State
9. Arizona
10. Arizona State

SEC
1. Clemson
2. Florida State
3. Miami
4. Florida
5. UCF
6. South Carolina
7. Kentucky
8. Tennessee
9. Alabama
10. Auburn
11. Georgia
12. Ole Miss
13. Mississippi State
14. LSU
15. Arkansas
16. Louisville

Big American
1. Temple
2. ECU
3. USF
4. Memphis
5. Houston
6. BYU
7. Colorado State
8. Air Force
9. Wyoming
10. Utah State
11. Hawaii
12. Fresno State
13. San Diego State
14. San Jose State
15. UNLV
16. Nevada
17. Boise State
18. New Mexico

Sun Belt USA
1. Tulsa
2. UTEP
3. New Mexico State
4. North Texas
5. UTSA
6. Texas State
7. Georgia State
8. Middle Tennessee
9. Western Kentucky
10. UAB
11. Charlotte
12. App State
13. Marshall
14. JMU
15. Liberty
16. Old Dominion
17. Coastal Carolina
18. Florida Atlantic

Independents
1. Notre Dame
2. Army
3. Navy

Where's A&M? They got kicked out of that version of the Big 12 and replaced by Utah. They're not in that SEC, either.

I assumed he had them in the Gulf Coast conference with the Louisiana G5s, Southern Miss, USA, Troy, and Jacksonville State.

Aggies might win the occasional conference title in that one.

Honestly, I’d like to go back to 5-6 leagues of relatively equal strength and television value that preserves historic rivalries and set them up with an 8 team playoff for their champions and the best rated at larges using the BCS bowls As quarterfinals.

(roughly, a reset to 2003 but with a few extras like BYU, Utah, TCU, Houston, Louisville, Cincinnati, UCF, and USF as part of the fold)

My pipe dreams

WVU in a geographically reasonable conference (bet you didn’t see that coming)
Maryland & Rutgers to the ACC
The rest of the L8, along with incoming Big 12 schools, in geographical conferences
Colorado to the Big 12
The Big 10 raid on the PAC 12 undone

I would demote Duncan’s SBUSA to FCS

I'd like to see P5 conferences go to 16 schools. With the PAC 12 losing the C4 to the Big 12 plus the Big 12 loosing Cincinnati, UCF and West Virginia to the ACC at least. PAC 12 backfills with MWC but doesn't lose anything else. Big 12 ards UTSA to get to 14. They can add the 2 best G5 schools after. Big ten and sec go after ACC schools to get to 16. MWC backfills to 12 with Western schools (Big sky, wac,) the Eastern conferences in the go back to 12 but go get teams from FCS based on who gets poached by the ACC.

FCS will most likely shrink in FCS conferences. Maybe create football only conferences with Olympic sports in other conferences. I'd like non football conferences at 10-12 schools max.

(05-21-2023 01:16 PM)Buckeye22 Wrote:  

(05-21-2023 01:05 PM)gwelymernans Wrote:  

(05-21-2023 12:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(05-21-2023 11:57 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-21-2023 11:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  Okay, so what do you want to happen?

If the Big 10 does indeed take Oregon, Washington, California and Stanford and they insist on 4 to the East. I would like for them to have Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, Duke, and Miami. I would like to see Virginia Tech, Virginia, North Carolina North Carolina State, Clemson and Florida State in the SEC and for the SEC to add Kansas, and I suppose Colorado to the West. I don't want the SEC to extend into Utah or Arizona. Nothing against those schools, but Colorado is a bridge too far. I like Colorado only in as much as they complete an interesting region with Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas A&M. To get to Arizona you have to jump New Mexico and you might as well look at Texas Tech to get there. If you take Texas Tech you are back into a debate about Oklahoma State, and if you do that you can forget about Kansas because Kansas State becomes a debate.

The SEC is built on rivalries. Missouri needs Kansas. Oklahoma has Texas. Colorado like Missouri is a state of 6 million dominated by one school and is in a different time zone for marketing purposes. It's also a nice vacation state and with Kansas it would be contiguous.

If you take Virginia and Virginia Tech, North Carolina and N.C. State those additions have their in state rival and a chief out of state rival. Add Clemson and Florida State and South Carolina and Florida have their rivals in house.

If you wind up with two leagues of 24 having rivals where you play them annually will be doubly important. Basketball has enough games in a season to pull off having a rival outside of the conference. Football does not.

If it goes nuclear like you predict, I hope Duke joins the SEC and Syracuse or Pitt ends up in the Big Ten instead. Carolina-Duke is one of the greatest rivalries in all of sports. I have to think the SEC would recognize that and bite the bullet.

One of the state of North Carolina's "issues" is you have three public schools with decent sized football followings, and two private schools—one with a national fanbase in hoops and another with a strong regional presence. I think you need at least three NC schools to own the state; think of Duke as a bonus.

Football stadiums:

Carolina - 50.5k (reduced from ~60k)
State - ~57k
ECU - 51k

,

I'm starting to think if the B1G goes to 24 that they should take Pitt. It doesn't offer any market (or rather offers half of the Pbgh market, aside from cable subs already delivered by PSU), but those are becoming less important w/ chord cutting. Academically/culturally it's a perfect fit, and I'd imagine a yearly game w/ PSU would capture at least around 5m eyeballs (even if mostly in Pa). And while Pitt usually only fills the stadium for PSU/WVU/UND visitors, OSU definitely would travel well enough to fill it and even Michigan isn't too far away to substantially boost Pitt home game attendance.

Pitt would absolutely love getting in the Big Ten and has wanted it since around 1950.

I just don't see Penn State and to a lesser extent Ohio State ever allowing it.

I couldn't say w/ respect to OSU's views, but honestly even the boomer PSU fans are likely over their self-serving grudges towards Pitt. The Xers and millenials could care less about perceived slights w/ respect to Big East rejection and the failure to create an eastern football league decades ago. Also, PSU folks are sick of hearing OSU folk pretend that they are PSU's biggest rival but not the inverse, especially given that historically OSU is maybe the 5th biggest rival from a PSU perspective (Pitt/WVU/UND/Cuse). Or that Rutgers/MD are rivals (might as well say Temple is a rival). Families have alums from both schools, PSU and Pitt folks marry, folks do undergrad at one and grad school at the other. There are a good number of better market options for the B1G than Pitt, but the only better cultural/geographic/academic fit is UND.

(05-21-2023 09:47 PM)gwelymernans Wrote:  I couldn't say w/ respect to OSU's views, but honestly even the boomer PSU fans are likely over their self-serving grudges towards Pitt. The Xers and millenials could care less about perceived slights w/ respect to Big East rejection and the failure to create an eastern football league decades ago. Also, PSU folks are sick of hearing OSU folk pretend that they are PSU's biggest rival but not the inverse, especially given that historically OSU is maybe the 5th biggest rival from a PSU perspective (Pitt/WVU/UND/Cuse). Or that Rutgers/MD are rivals (might as well say Temple is a rival). Families have alums from both schools, PSU and Pitt folks marry, folks do undergrad at one and grad school at the other. There are a good number of better market options for the B1G than Pitt, but the only better cultural/geographic/academic fit is UND.

Notre Dame and Penn State have only played a pair of games (2006-07) since 1992 and 19 games in total. That doesn't sound like much of a rivalry.

(05-21-2023 10:26 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  I would like whatever has to happen that results in UTEP & NMSU joining the MWC. That helps the geography of CUSA immensely while benefitting the Miners and Aggies geographically. The fact that it may not be beneficial to the MWC is irrelevant to me.

Yep. Utep wouldn't deserve either, but it should be overall beneficial to utep if it happens.

(05-21-2023 10:00 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(05-21-2023 09:47 PM)gwelymernans Wrote:  I couldn't say w/ respect to OSU's views, but honestly even the boomer PSU fans are likely over their self-serving grudges towards Pitt. The Xers and millenials could care less about perceived slights w/ respect to Big East rejection and the failure to create an eastern football league decades ago. Also, PSU folks are sick of hearing OSU folk pretend that they are PSU's biggest rival but not the inverse, especially given that historically OSU is maybe the 5th biggest rival from a PSU perspective (Pitt/WVU/UND/Cuse). Or that Rutgers/MD are rivals (might as well say Temple is a rival). Families have alums from both schools, PSU and Pitt folks marry, folks do undergrad at one and grad school at the other. There are a good number of better market options for the B1G than Pitt, but the only better cultural/geographic/academic fit is UND.

Notre Dame and Penn State have only played a pair of games (2006-07) since 1992 and 19 games in total. That doesn't sound like much of a rivalry.

They played every year from '81-'92, and combined for 3 titles during that span ('82 and '86 PSU, '88 UND), and the overall record for both teams is 9-9-1. It'd be fair to say it's a dormant rivalry, but they were most definitely rivals during that era.

(05-21-2023 06:00 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I'd like to see a P4x16, even though that ship has sailed IRL.

ACC
East: Duke, NC State, North Carolina, Wake Forest
North: Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
South: Central Florida, Florida, Florida State, Miami-FL
West: Clemson, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina

Big 16
East: Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse
North: Cincinnati, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State
South: Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue
West: Iowa, Iowa State, Minnesota, Wisconsin

Pac-16
East: Houston, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech
North: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
West: California, Stanford, UCLA, USC

SEC
East: Kentucky, Louisville, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
North: Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Nebraska
South: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss
West: Arkansas, LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

https://i.imgur.com/OOIpVbC.png

Very interesting : )

(I guess we're presuming Army, Navy, BYU, and ND, are football independents.)

As you mentioned, some of these moves are unlikely for various reasons.

I don't think Maryland wants to go back to the ACC at all.

And I think TX and OK want to be in the same conference. So I united the Texas and Oklahoma schools. Makes for an interesting merge of the old SWC and the western SEC schools. Though that leaves the PAC with 12.

I see that you also dropped several B12 and ACC schools like BC, Baylor, and TCU. I added Iowa State, WV, Syracuse, and WF, to that list.

And finally, except for near-AAU Miami, I don't think the Big10 would add the non-AAU schools, at this point.

All that said, I think a large chunk of this is possible, maybe by moving a few sections.

And just for geography, though, we can pretend that USC and UCLA go back to the PAC.

So, starting with the ACC:

ACC - (Loses Maryland, Miami, UCF, WF, WV)
North: Duke, NC State, North Carolina, Virginia
East: Clemson, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
South: Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech
West: Cincinnati, Kentucky, Louisville, Virginia Tech

SEC - (loses Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Nebraska)
East: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss
North: Arkansas, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri
South: Houston, Louisiana State, Texas A&M, UCF
West: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Big 16 - (loses Cincinnati, Iowa State, Syracuse)
East: Maryland, Pittsburgh, Miami-FL, Rutgers
North: Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State
South: Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue
West: Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin

Pac-12 - (loses Houston, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech)
North: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
West: California, Stanford, UCLA, USC

I wish I had your skill with maps, I think this would look really cool : )

(05-21-2023 09:47 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  Florida State joins the SEC, anything else is just gravy.

Can we come, too?

(05-21-2023 10:20 AM)CFBLurker Wrote:  My fantasy scorecard

SEC adds UNC VA Tech FSU Kansas

Big Ten adds Stanford And Washington

ACC adds WVU Cinci UCF Memphis

Big 12 and Pac merge

I could go for that.

What do I want? Ideally? Every university moves to something like the Ivy League model. The pros fund their own farm leagues. On campus, media negotiations with networks become a forgotten nightmare.

Fans can access coverage of college sports through links on each school's web site.

2-3 institutions are created federally to prepare athletes for Olympic competition. Universities with talented enough athletes send them on to one of these.

Thanks for asking.

Realistically? I generally want what the schools want for themselves.

Let's try to keep the P5 alive for now.

B1G adds Oregon and Washington.

PAC adds San Diego St. and SMU (taking a page out of the Big 12's playbook from 2010 to try to survive until 2030).

ACC and SEC hold firm for now.

Big 12 may add Memphis and UCONN or UNLV, but doesn't have to.

I'd like to see the P2 go to 20+ teams each and split off. Go full professional.

Leave the rest of us to implement a regional quasi amateur (you know, COLLEGE athletics).

NFL, NBA et al recognize P2 as competition rather than feeder leagues and act accordingly. No longer scheduling around college schedules but directly competing with them.

Big money fanbases are not satisfied with perpetual 5-7 teams with no G5 teams to schedule, interest and excitement wanes. Peak media is reached and wanes as engagement goes down. 10-20 years from now the whole thing is a shell of its former glory. Everybody wonders what went wrong.

Meanwhile, the rest of us can organize into regional conferences and implement a quasi-amateur structure. Are we smaller and with less money than today? Yes, but we survive and we're without the obscenity of modern day college sports ($10MM coaches, fake classes, rampant bidding for players and prospects)

Just don't see any wholesale mergers among current conferences. Too much to be lost or gained among those schools leaving or staying to dissolve or merge existing P5 conferences or even the AAC or MWC (may be the same for other conferences too). I expect a continuation of the recent past where conferences will be raided & other schools will be called up. So while the relative value of individual conferences may change with the schools that makeup the conferences, the conferences themselves will survive to collect fees from those schools moving out.