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Kent St Underperforms
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Basketball Jones Offline
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Kent St Underperforms
While it’s no shame to lose to Indiana with Tracye Jackson-Davis a mismatch in the post. I thought Kent St unperformed last night losing 71-60. The Big Three of Carry, Jacobs, and Thomas shot a dreadful combined 10-39 for only 29 points which was the ball game as to pull an upset in the NCAA Tournament, your best players need to perform well! Likewise, if Toledo’s Big 3 of Dennis, Shumate, and Milner shot like that against a quality opponent, it would be a similar or even worse result. It will be interesting to see how Kent rebuilds their roster next season as their 3 returning players of significance (Payton, Sullinger, and Davis), combined to average only 22ppg.
(This post was last modified: 03-18-2023 11:11 AM by Basketball Jones.)
03-18-2023 11:10 AM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
Too many connections to IU and talk of an upset to surprise anyone. It's the same with UT in the NIT. Playing regional squads who compete with players and territory will never bode well for the little guy. If Kent drew SDSU or Tennessee they could have shocked em. Miami barely beat Drake and I don't think Drake is close to being as good as Kent. It's about the draw. TJD could take Indiana to the final 4.
03-18-2023 11:26 AM
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Screwball Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
Kent shot 32% from the field and 33% from 3. Carry was 5-18 (1-6 from 3). They did out rebound Indiana 42-39. I don't think they were outclassed, sans the dunkfest by Jackson-Davis, which was kind of expected. Kent was only 4 point dogs.

Vandy up on Michigan by 2 with about 4 minutes left in the half. If Michigan made a run it might make me feel better since they beat our Rockets.
03-18-2023 11:36 AM
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RocketBBallFan Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
(03-18-2023 11:36 AM)Screwball Wrote:  Kent shot 32% from the field and 33% from 3. Carry was 5-18 (1-6 from 3). They did out rebound Indiana 42-39. I don't think they were outclassed, sans the dunkfest by Jackson-Davis, which was kind of expected. Kent was only 4 point dogs.

Vandy up on Michigan by 2 with about 4 minutes left in the half. If Michigan made a run it might make me feel better since they beat our Rockets.

Michigan is without 2 starters today due to ankle injuries
03-18-2023 12:21 PM
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Screwball Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
And Michigan is gone.
03-18-2023 01:11 PM
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rkt Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
I enjoyed watching the Rockets all year, thought their offense was exciting and that they played defense for a stretch of games near the end of the season.

Unfortunately, after watching our last two games, and seeing the teams that are still playing, I think we were all a little overly enthusiastic about what may have turned out to be fools gold. In retrospect, the team was far superior to the bad teams in the MAC, but not nearly tough enough to compete with anybody good. And while we could defend the likes of Eastern Michigan and BG, Kent and UM exposed our defense for what it really was.

There had been talk about being an elite-eight team. Does anyone watching the teams that are still playing really think we could compete at this level?

Pono, we don’t know each other, but I’m interested in you opinion.
03-18-2023 02:21 PM
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RocketBBallFan Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
(03-18-2023 02:21 PM)rkt Wrote:  I enjoyed watching the Rockets all year, thought their offense was exciting and that they played defense for a stretch of games near the end of the season.

Unfortunately, after watching our last two games, and seeing the teams that are still playing, I think we were all a little overly enthusiastic about what may have turned out to be fools gold. In retrospect, the team was far superior to the bad teams in the MAC, but not nearly tough enough to compete with anybody good. And while we could defend the likes of Eastern Michigan and BG, Kent and UM exposed our defense for what it really was.

There had been talk about being an elite-eight team. Does anyone watching the teams that are still playing really think we could compete at this level?

Pono, we don’t know each other, but I’m interested in you opinion.

While a lot of the MAC teams that we beat weren't very good, we did beat a good Akron team twice, including a 10 point road win and a 21 point home win.
(This post was last modified: 03-18-2023 02:42 PM by RocketBBallFan.)
03-18-2023 02:37 PM
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cleveland Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
(03-18-2023 02:37 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 02:21 PM)rkt Wrote:  I enjoyed watching the Rockets all year, thought their offense was exciting and that they played defense for a stretch of games near the end of the season.

Unfortunately, after watching our last two games, and seeing the teams that are still playing, I think we were all a little overly enthusiastic about what may have turned out to be fools gold. In retrospect, the team was far superior to the bad teams in the MAC, but not nearly tough enough to compete with anybody good. And while we could defend the likes of Eastern Michigan and BG, Kent and UM exposed our defense for what it really was.

There had been talk about being an elite-eight team. Does anyone watching the teams that are still playing really think we could compete at this level?

Pono, we don’t know each other, but I’m interested in you opinion.

While a lot of the MAC teams that we beat weren't very good, we did beat a good Akron team twice, including a 10 point road win and a 21 point home win.

True ... but Akron was good the same way Toledo was good (vs. bad MAC teams overall). 1 quality MAC win at home over Kent in rivalry game. Kudos to them. But name another game/win for Akron vs. any other team as good as Kent, MAC or non-con???

Just not there.


Kent was indeed the best team in the MAC.

Toledo was No. 2 and (unlike Kent) was never caught with its pants down and won the regular season.

Akron was No. 3, but minus a rivalry win, was really no matchup vs. the top 2.

The rest of the MAC ... ?????
03-18-2023 04:46 PM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
Toledo shot and scored at a staggering clip this year. Even if adjusted our top 5 offensive efficency is still a top 30 offense in the nation. IDC if shots are open, doing things like making 35 free throws in a row and every starter hitting 35% from three is impressive.
03-18-2023 04:48 PM
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eastisbest Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
(03-18-2023 04:48 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Toledo shot and scored at a staggering clip this year. Even if adjusted our top 5 offensive efficency is still a top 30 offense in the nation. IDC if shots are open, doing things like making 35 free throws in a row and every starter hitting 35% from three is impressive.

Pretty hard to get bored watching a Toledo game, that's for sure.
03-18-2023 04:50 PM
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RocketBBallFan Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
(03-18-2023 04:46 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 02:37 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 02:21 PM)rkt Wrote:  I enjoyed watching the Rockets all year, thought their offense was exciting and that they played defense for a stretch of games near the end of the season.

Unfortunately, after watching our last two games, and seeing the teams that are still playing, I think we were all a little overly enthusiastic about what may have turned out to be fools gold. In retrospect, the team was far superior to the bad teams in the MAC, but not nearly tough enough to compete with anybody good. And while we could defend the likes of Eastern Michigan and BG, Kent and UM exposed our defense for what it really was.

There had been talk about being an elite-eight team. Does anyone watching the teams that are still playing really think we could compete at this level?

Pono, we don’t know each other, but I’m interested in you opinion.

While a lot of the MAC teams that we beat weren't very good, we did beat a good Akron team twice, including a 10 point road win and a 21 point home win.

True ... but Akron was good the same way Toledo was good (vs. bad MAC teams overall). 1 quality MAC win at home over Kent in rivalry game. Kudos to them. But name another game/win for Akron vs. any other team as good as Kent, MAC or non-con???

Just not there.


Kent was indeed the best team in the MAC.

Toledo was No. 2 and (unlike Kent) was never caught with its pants down and won the regular season.

Akron was No. 3, but minus a rivalry win, was really no matchup vs. the top 2.

The rest of the MAC ... ?????

You could say the same thing about Kent. Who were their best wins against? Toledo and Akron. If Toledo and Akron weren't really that good, then Kent beating them doesn't say much about Kent being good. Yeah, they had close games against Charleston, Houston, and Gonzaga, but didn't win any of those games.
(This post was last modified: 03-18-2023 05:01 PM by RocketBBallFan.)
03-18-2023 04:55 PM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
(03-18-2023 04:55 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 04:46 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 02:37 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 02:21 PM)rkt Wrote:  I enjoyed watching the Rockets all year, thought their offense was exciting and that they played defense for a stretch of games near the end of the season.

Unfortunately, after watching our last two games, and seeing the teams that are still playing, I think we were all a little overly enthusiastic about what may have turned out to be fools gold. In retrospect, the team was far superior to the bad teams in the MAC, but not nearly tough enough to compete with anybody good. And while we could defend the likes of Eastern Michigan and BG, Kent and UM exposed our defense for what it really was.

There had been talk about being an elite-eight team. Does anyone watching the teams that are still playing really think we could compete at this level?

Pono, we don’t know each other, but I’m interested in you opinion.

While a lot of the MAC teams that we beat weren't very good, we did beat a good Akron team twice, including a 10 point road win and a 21 point home win.

True ... but Akron was good the same way Toledo was good (vs. bad MAC teams overall). 1 quality MAC win at home over Kent in rivalry game. Kudos to them. But name another game/win for Akron vs. any other team as good as Kent, MAC or non-con???

Just not there.


Kent was indeed the best team in the MAC.

Toledo was No. 2 and (unlike Kent) was never caught with its pants down and won the regular season.

Akron was No. 3, but minus a rivalry win, was really no matchup vs. the top 2.

The rest of the MAC ... ?????

You could say the same thing about Kent. Who were their best wins against? Toledo and Akron. If Toledo and Akron weren't really that good, then Kent beating them must meant that Kent wasn't really that good. Yeah, they had close games against Charleston, Houston, and Gonzaga, but didn't win any of those games. If Toledo and Akron

Toledo beat UAB, NKU, and Vermont. Actually a good resume. Minus UMKC and ECU losses... The whole MAC sucked OOC. That's why Kent's NET coming into MAC play was as high as it could get. Losing to NIU dropped em like 20 spots.
03-18-2023 05:02 PM
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Basketball Jones Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
(03-18-2023 04:46 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 02:37 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 02:21 PM)rkt Wrote:  I enjoyed watching the Rockets all year, thought their offense was exciting and that they played defense for a stretch of games near the end of the season.

Unfortunately, after watching our last two games, and seeing the teams that are still playing, I think we were all a little overly enthusiastic about what may have turned out to be fools gold. In retrospect, the team was far superior to the bad teams in the MAC, but not nearly tough enough to compete with anybody good. And while we could defend the likes of Eastern Michigan and BG, Kent and UM exposed our defense for what it really was.

There had been talk about being an elite-eight team. Does anyone watching the teams that are still playing really think we could compete at this level?

Pono, we don’t know each other, but I’m interested in you opinion.

While a lot of the MAC teams that we beat weren't very good, we did beat a good Akron team twice, including a 10 point road win and a 21 point home win.

True ... but Akron was good the same way Toledo was good (vs. bad MAC teams overall). 1 quality MAC win at home over Kent in rivalry game. Kudos to them. But name another game/win for Akron vs. any other team as good as Kent, MAC or non-con???

Just not there.

dToledo was No. 2 and (unlike Kent) was never caught with its pants down and won the regular season.

Akron was No. 3, but minus a rivalry win, was really no matchup vs. the top 2.

The rest of the MAC ... ?????

I think you are discounting what Toledo did this season in MAC play winning 15 straight in the regular season, which is very difficult to do in any league. To play at a high level for the most part with very few games in which they were tested should be commended. For as good as Kent St was, they stumbled along the way even losing to a mediocre NIU team. In the end, Kent proved to be the MAC's best when it mattered most, but that should not diminish what Toledo accomplished this season.
(This post was last modified: 03-18-2023 05:14 PM by Basketball Jones.)
03-18-2023 05:12 PM
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MidnightBlueGold Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
(03-18-2023 04:46 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 02:37 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 02:21 PM)rkt Wrote:  I enjoyed watching the Rockets all year, thought their offense was exciting and that they played defense for a stretch of games near the end of the season.

Unfortunately, after watching our last two games, and seeing the teams that are still playing, I think we were all a little overly enthusiastic about what may have turned out to be fools gold. In retrospect, the team was far superior to the bad teams in the MAC, but not nearly tough enough to compete with anybody good. And while we could defend the likes of Eastern Michigan and BG, Kent and UM exposed our defense for what it really was.

There had been talk about being an elite-eight team. Does anyone watching the teams that are still playing really think we could compete at this level?

Pono, we don’t know each other, but I’m interested in you opinion.

While a lot of the MAC teams that we beat weren't very good, we did beat a good Akron team twice, including a 10 point road win and a 21 point home win.

True ... but Akron was good the same way Toledo was good (vs. bad MAC teams overall). 1 quality MAC win at home over Kent in rivalry game. Kudos to them. But name another game/win for Akron vs. any other team as good as Kent, MAC or non-con???

Just not there.


Kent was indeed the best team in the MAC.

Toledo was No. 2 and (unlike Kent) was never caught with its pants down and won the regular season.

Akron was No. 3, but minus a rivalry win, was really no matchup vs. the top 2.

The rest of the MAC ... ?????

Why do Toledo 'fans' constantly diminish Toledo's accomplishments???
03-18-2023 07:04 PM
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Springboromark Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
In talking about NKU, Horizon conference, who UT defeated during the regular season, only lost 52-63 to # 1 Houston in the first round in Birmingham. NKU was a 16 seed. They held their own.
03-18-2023 08:08 PM
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rkt Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
(03-18-2023 05:12 PM)Basketball Jones Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 04:46 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 02:37 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 02:21 PM)rkt Wrote:  I enjoyed watching the Rockets all year, thought their offense was exciting and that they played defense for a stretch of games near the end of the season.

Unfortunately, after watching our last two games, and seeing the teams that are still playing, I think we were all a little overly enthusiastic about what may have turned out to be fools gold. In retrospect, the team was far superior to the bad teams in the MAC, but not nearly tough enough to compete with anybody good. And while we could defend the likes of Eastern Michigan and BG, Kent and UM exposed our defense for what it really was.

There had been talk about being an elite-eight team. Does anyone watching the teams that are still playing really think we could compete at this level?

Pono, we don’t know each other, but I’m interested in you opinion.

While a lot of the MAC teams that we beat weren't very good, we did beat a good Akron team twice, including a 10 point road win and a 21 point home win.

True ... but Akron was good the same way Toledo was good (vs. bad MAC teams overall). 1 quality MAC win at home over Kent in rivalry game. Kudos to them. But name another game/win for Akron vs. any other team as good as Kent, MAC or non-con???

Just not there.

dToledo was No. 2 and (unlike Kent) was never caught with its pants down and won the regular season.

Akron was No. 3, but minus a rivalry win, was really no matchup vs. the top 2.

The rest of the MAC ... ?????

I think you are discounting what Toledo did this season in MAC play winning 15 straight in the regular season, which is very difficult to do in any league. To play at a high level for the most part with very few games in which they were tested should be commended. For as good as Kent St was, they stumbled along the way even losing to a mediocre NIU team. In the end, Kent proved to be the MAC's best when it mattered most, but that should not diminish what Toledo accomplished this season.

I re-read my post and I think you (and the post following) are correct. Although I alluded to it briefly at the beginning, I should have given much more credit to the Rockets for what they accomplished during the regular season in terms of the win streak and the quality of play. It’s damn hard to win like they did regardless of who you’re playing.

I will, however, stick to my point that we fans overestimated how good we were when talk started to drift toward the final eight of the NCAA. I watched Princeton tonight, and I just don’t think we have that kind of toughness in us.
03-18-2023 08:11 PM
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Springboromark Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
And the Tigers of Princeton, 15 seed, to the sweet 16, as they defeated the 7th seed Missouri 78-63.
03-18-2023 08:26 PM
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Rocket Man Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
Here’s the truth...we play our best...we can beat most anyone. I agree we seem to not give our guys enough credit as fans. I think most fan bases are hard on their teams. I love our guys and girls teams [/align]and really enjoyed the season. It was the most enjoyable seasons of Toledo basketball I have ever experienced. Good things to come for both the men and the women!!! Go ?
03-19-2023 11:11 AM
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eastisbest Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
(03-19-2023 11:11 AM)Rocket Man Wrote:  Here’s the truth...we play our best...we can beat most anyone. I agree we seem to not give our guys enough credit as fans. I think most fan bases are hard on their teams. I love our guys and girls teams [/align]and really enjoyed the season. It was the most enjoyable seasons of Toledo basketball I have ever experienced. Good things to come for both the men and the women!!! Go ?

IDK, I think we're mostly fair and point generally towards where the buck lands.

It's more a difficult for the grads than the grew up with like me. After 40 years I found myself rooting for the win more for the Toledo grads than even for the team or coach. I'm sure the Women's success stands on its own as opposed to salve for the men's missing out.

K has brought some of the most interesting teams and players but we're all competitive. I think calling out things we THINK will work better doesn't say any less about our appreciation. Same goes for Candle. It certainly should not be taken that way by anyone, much less teams and coaches. It's all wishing them more

I think Toledo has a good fan base and this board is HEAPs better than most as far as loyalty thick and thin.
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2023 11:22 AM by eastisbest.)
03-19-2023 11:21 AM
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Basketball Jones Offline
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RE: Kent St Underperforms
(03-18-2023 08:11 PM)rkt Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 05:12 PM)Basketball Jones Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 04:46 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 02:37 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  
(03-18-2023 02:21 PM)rkt Wrote:  I enjoyed watching the Rockets all year, thought their offense was exciting and that they played defense for a stretch of games near the end of the season.

Unfortunately, after watching our last two games, and seeing the teams that are still playing, I think we were all a little overly enthusiastic about what may have turned out to be fools gold. In retrospect, the team was far superior to the bad teams in the MAC, but not nearly tough enough to compete with anybody good. And while we could defend the likes of Eastern Michigan and BG, Kent and UM exposed our defense for what it really was.

There had been talk about being an elite-eight team. Does anyone watching the teams that are still playing really think we could compete at this level?

Pono, we don’t know each other, but I’m interested in you opinion.

While a lot of the MAC teams that we beat weren't very good, we did beat a good Akron team twice, including a 10 point road win and a 21 point home win.

True ... but Akron was good the same way Toledo was good (vs. bad MAC teams overall). 1 quality MAC win at home over Kent in rivalry game. Kudos to them. But name another game/win for Akron vs. any other team as good as Kent, MAC or non-con???

Just not there.

dToledo was No. 2 and (unlike Kent) was never caught with its pants down and won the regular season.

Akron was No. 3, but minus a rivalry win, was really no matchup vs. the top 2.

The rest of the MAC ... ?????

I think you are discounting what Toledo did this season in MAC play winning 15 straight in the regular season, which is very difficult to do in any league. To play at a high level for the most part with very few games in which they were tested should be commended. For as good as Kent St was, they stumbled along the way even losing to a mediocre NIU team. In the end, Kent proved to be the MAC's best when it mattered most, but that should not diminish what Toledo accomplished this season.

I re-read my post and I think you (and the post following) are correct. Although I alluded to it briefly at the beginning, I should have given much more credit to the Rockets for what they accomplished during the regular season in terms of the win streak and the quality of play. It’s damn hard to win like they did regardless of who you’re playing.

I will, however, stick to my point that we fans overestimated how good we were when talk started to drift toward the final eight of the NCAA. I watched Princeton tonight, and I just don’t think we have that kind of toughness in us.

While I agree with you that we were obviously not a "Elite 8" level team, I don't think it has anything to do with toughness. I think it has to do more with how TK constructs his teams in that he prefers skilled Interior Players like a Shumate and Milner who can stress a defense with their shooting ability but can also be a liability on the defensive end when you face players that are taller and more physical. As the last 3 years have demonstrated, you can play like that in most games and get away with it, but when you get into a tournament setting, you most likely are going to face interior mismatches that result in rebounding issues that turn into second chance opportunities for the opponent. Scoring over 80 ppg with an undersized lineup is no small accomplishment and should be celebrated. But it hasn't proven to be good enough to get into The Big Dance. While TK doesn't need to institute wholesale changes, he does need to "tweak things" so that we don't face similar obstacles when we get to Cleveland and beyond!
03-19-2023 11:26 AM
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