(03-09-2023 10:26 PM)Garrettabc Wrote: I see 2 sides with hard stances represented on this site: (1) wants their favorite school to leave the ACC, (2) does not want to address the problem that makes (1) want to leave.
I’d hope that in the ACC meeting room there is a lot more flexibility and a reasonable compromise can be had so that the ACC survives and everybody is happy past 2036.
(1) Should want to work things out because it’s generally thought to be easier to win football games in this conference. Plus, (depending on your school) there is a long history with the other members and the ease of traveling in your region.
(2) Should want to work things out for long term stability. There will be a big drop off in payment in 2037 if you are a fan of one of the unlucky schools left behind. Besides that, do you really want your long time conference partners to leave?
How can we save this?
I do not think the ACC is Doomed in 2036! Remember in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 everyone said the ACC was doomed that is not what happened. What we have lived through is the Big12 and Pac12 take the hits and the Pac12 looking more like the Big East every day!
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2023 10:53 AM by GTFletch.)
Dodd’s tweet made no sense then and even less over a decade later.
West Virginia was invited to join The Big 12 on October 28, 2011.
Missouri was invited to join The SEC on November 6, 2011.
If Dodd is correct and The SEC was trying to decide between Missouri and West Virginia, does anyone really believe Oliver Luck would jump on a Big 12 invite while being on the clock with The SEC.
If Dodds tweet is correct it means Luck chose The Big 12 over The SEC and forced The SEC to take Missouri.
That’s too far fetched for anyone to believe.
Another example of Dodd trying to pump up his home conference.
13 years is a long time to try to predict what’s going to happen. Using today’s paradigm I can see where it might be easy to think The ACC is dead at the end of the contract. I for one don’t see how anything has changed.
Too many here are listening to The Big 12 fan boys celebrate a big nothing.
The Big 12 signed a contract with Fox / ESPN that puts them on hold for a few years for little escalation. That 5 or 6 year contract doesn’t make The Big 12 safe in 2032 or whatever year it expires. The contract serves as a placeholder for ESPN. It serves the same purpose the LHN did for ESPN the last media cycle. The only difference is ESPN got Fox to help pay for keeping The Big 12 on the string.
The Big 12 is presently celebrating getting more money than they expected to get without Texas and Oklahoma. I can see why Cincinnati, UCF, Houston and BYU are happy. From their perspective that’s a big step up. You’ll never hear the any of the 6 original Big 12 leftovers, WVU and TCU complain but they can’t be happy. Big 12 fans are so busy celebrating their contract, they haven’t stopped long enough to think that ESPN didn’t see the conference valuable enough to invest in a linear network with them a decade ago and they don’t believe the conference is valuable enough to pay for all of its content now.
Think about that. Fox wholly carries The Big Ten. NBC wholly carries Notre Dame and ESPN wholly carries The SEC and The ACC. The only conference that shares its rights between two entities is The Big 12. It looks like The PAC will be in the same situation. The Big 12 is smugly looking down its nose at The PAC not realizing they’re in the same boat. If a broadcast partner sees value in your rights product they don’t share the rights.
I still believe ESPN has bigger plans for The ACC. The ACC is still going to make more money than The Big 12 and still be solidly #3. The ACC contract is back loaded that’s been known for years.
It’s easy to see FSU complain about money. They complained back in 2011 and still signed the original ACC GOR in 2013 and the ACC GOR extension in 2016. My point is everyone can complain but it doesn’t mean schools won’t sign the next contract. Personally I hope every university complains.
I’ve said it for the last year. There are going to be some disappointed fans come 2036. They’ll be packing their bags for The SEC or The Big Ten but won’t be going anywhere.
So no I don’t see The ACC as doomed. I did until I saw the contract numbers on what The Big 12 got. That contract shows ESPN’s value to that conference is just above The AAC but still well below The ACC. The Big 12 got go away money from ESPN.
If ESPN facilitates the movement of ACC teams to The SEC in 2037, I’m confident The ACC will have a choice of what Big 12 / PAC teams to add. I still don’t believe we’re guaranteed to see that happen though.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2023 01:50 PM by CardinalJim.)
(03-14-2023 01:47 PM)CardinalJim Wrote: 13 years is a long time to try to predict what’s going to happen. Using today’s paradigm I can see where it might be easy to think The ACC is dead at the end of the contract. I for one don’t see how anything has changed.
Too many here are listening to The Big 12 fan boys celebrate a big nothing.
The Big 12 signed a contract with Fox / ESPN that puts them on hold for a few years for little escalation. That 5 or 6 year contract doesn’t make The Big 12 safe in 2032 or whatever year it expires. The contract serves as a placeholder for ESPN. It serves the same purpose the LHN did for ESPN the last media cycle. The only difference is ESPN got Fox to help pay for keeping The Big 12 on the string.
The Big 12 is presently celebrating getting more money than they expected to get without Texas and Oklahoma. I can see why Cincinnati, UCF, Houston and BYU are happy. From their perspective that’s a big step up. You’ll never hear the any of the 6 original Big 12 leftovers, WVU and TCU complain but they can’t be happy. Big 12 fans are so busy celebrating their contract, they haven’t stopped long enough to think that ESPN didn’t see the conference valuable enough to invest in a linear network with them a decade ago and they don’t believe the conference is valuable enough to pay for all of its content now.
Think about that. Fox wholly carries The Big Ten. NBC wholly carries Notre Dame and ESPN wholly carries The SEC and The ACC. The only conference that shares its rights between two entities is The Big 12. It looks like The PAC will be in the same situation. The Big 12 is smugly looking down its nose at The PAC not realizing they’re in the same boat. If a broadcast partner sees value in your rights product they don’t share the rights.
I still believe ESPN has bigger plans for The ACC. The ACC is still going to make more money than The Big 12 and still be solidly #3. The ACC contract is back loaded that’s been known for years.
It’s easy to see FSU complain about money. They complained back in 2011 and still signed the original ACC GOR in 2013 and the ACC GOR extension in 2016. My point is everyone can complain but it doesn’t mean schools won’t sign the next contract. Personally I hope every university complains.
I’ve said it for the last year. There are going to be some disappointed fans come 2036. They’ll be packing their bags for The SEC or The Big Ten but won’t be going anywhere.
So no I don’t see The ACC as doomed. I did until I saw the contract numbers on what The Big 12 got. That contract shows ESPN’s value to that conference is just above The AAC but still well below The ACC. The Big 12 got go away money from ESPN.
If ESPN facilitates the movement of ACC teams to The SEC in 2037, I’m confident The ACC will have a choice of what Big 12 / PAC teams to add. I still don’t believe we’re guaranteed to see that happen though.
Along those lines.... I'm not sure if the lesser members of the SEC and B1G are going to want to expand beyond 16. It's not much of a conference if your not playing some members but once every 3 or 4 years. It may be that they won't want to expand regardless of who is available.
(03-14-2023 01:47 PM)CardinalJim Wrote: 13 years is a long time to try to predict what’s going to happen. Using today’s paradigm I can see where it might be easy to think The ACC is dead at the end of the contract. I for one don’t see how anything has changed.
Too many here are listening to The Big 12 fan boys celebrate a big nothing.
The Big 12 signed a contract with Fox / ESPN that puts them on hold for a few years for little escalation. That 5 or 6 year contract doesn’t make The Big 12 safe in 2032 or whatever year it expires. The contract serves as a placeholder for ESPN. It serves the same purpose the LHN did for ESPN the last media cycle. The only difference is ESPN got Fox to help pay for keeping The Big 12 on the string.
The Big 12 is presently celebrating getting more money than they expected to get without Texas and Oklahoma. I can see why Cincinnati, UCF, Houston and BYU are happy. From their perspective that’s a big step up. You’ll never hear the any of the 6 original Big 12 leftovers, WVU and TCU complain but they can’t be happy. Big 12 fans are so busy celebrating their contract, they haven’t stopped long enough to think that ESPN didn’t see the conference valuable enough to invest in a linear network with them a decade ago and they don’t believe the conference is valuable enough to pay for all of its content now.
Think about that. Fox wholly carries The Big Ten. NBC wholly carries Notre Dame and ESPN wholly carries The SEC and The ACC. The only conference that shares its rights between two entities is The Big 12. It looks like The PAC will be in the same situation. The Big 12 is smugly looking down its nose at The PAC not realizing they’re in the same boat. If a broadcast partner sees value in your rights product they don’t share the rights.
I still believe ESPN has bigger plans for The ACC. The ACC is still going to make more money than The Big 12 and still be solidly #3. The ACC contract is back loaded that’s been known for years.
It’s easy to see FSU complain about money. They complained back in 2011 and still signed the original ACC GOR in 2013 and the ACC GOR extension in 2016. My point is everyone can complain but it doesn’t mean schools won’t sign the next contract. Personally I hope every university complains.
I’ve said it for the last year. There are going to be some disappointed fans come 2036. They’ll be packing their bags for The SEC or The Big Ten but won’t be going anywhere.
So no I don’t see The ACC as doomed. I did until I saw the contract numbers on what The Big 12 got. That contract shows ESPN’s value to that conference is just above The AAC but still well below The ACC. The Big 12 got go away money from ESPN.
If ESPN facilitates the movement of ACC teams to The SEC in 2037, I’m confident The ACC will have a choice of what Big 12 / PAC teams to add. I still don’t believe we’re guaranteed to see that happen though.
If the ACC waits until 2036, it won't be an organized reshuffling. ESPN won't be in position to facilitate much if the B1G wants ACC properties. The Big 12 will take what pieces are left after the P2 get who they want IF anyone. The rest will go to somewhere else AAC type conference.
The longer the wait happens, the worse for all ACC teams. There is no leverage left when GOR expires. Every year that passes, the shorter the fuse on this bomb
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2023 09:14 PM by nole.)
I think enough of the money-making or top-brand schools either A) find a way to challenge the GOR, or B) find a way to dissolve the conference so that GOR & exit fees are a non-factor.
How, I don't know. But the ACC leadership has mismanaged every move since the 2010 realignment wave to try & make the league more valuable or negotiate multiple TV partners.
The ACC could have been the first to 16 teams. I find it ironic that ESPN did not find Rutgers valuable enough for the ACC to expand with, but to the B1G, it was a big market share to a lucrative BIG network. With Rutgers, there is a good chance UMd does not get the invite and the ACC retains them. The realignment madness is probably stunted and the ACC is in a better position than it was before.
(03-15-2023 06:18 AM)Garrettabc Wrote: The ACC could have been the first to 16 teams. I find it ironic that ESPN did not find Rutgers valuable enough for the ACC to expand with, but to the B1G, it was a big market share to a lucrative BIG network. With Rutgers, there is a good chance UMd does not get the invite and the ACC retains them. The realignment madness is probably stunted and the ACC is in a better position than it was before.
I don’t think the ACCN was really outside of the incubation stage when the Big Ten made their move. Plus, it was like pulling teeth to add BC, much less Syracuse and Pitt.
(03-14-2023 11:52 PM)ThompsonCreekTiger Wrote: I think enough of the money-making or top-brand schools either A) find a way to challenge the GOR, or B) find a way to dissolve the conference so that GOR & exit fees are a non-factor.
How, I don't know. But the ACC leadership has mismanaged every move since the 2010 realignment wave to try & make the league more valuable or negotiate multiple TV partners.
The Big XII is already making noise about bundling basketball separate from football. Why? Because they are looking to maximize profit for their individual sports.
The ACC would be wise to follow this move, and take it a step further to package individual programs. Why? Because this is going to happen anyway, may as well be on the cutting edge. Individually package FSU and Clemson football—and whichever schools can make more individually—while packaging the rest. A cut still comes out for the ACC though.
We'll see a day where Carolina and Duke basketball are individually packaged, Ohio State and Michigan football, Bama and damn near every SEC program, especially as younger casual fans start to take over the market. The new game will be maximize the large fanbases individually and lean into the customization streaming offers. The best thing about the GOR is it buys the conference time to navigate these changes.
In short, no, the ACC is not doomed in 2036. It is secure in its future.
(03-15-2023 07:35 AM)esayem Wrote: The Big XII is already making noise about bundling basketball separate from football. Why? Because they are looking to maximize profit for their individual sports.
The ACC would be wise to follow this move, and take it a step further to package individual programs. Why? Because this is going to happen anyway, may as well be on the cutting edge. Individually package FSU and Clemson football—and whichever schools can make more individually—while packaging the rest. A cut still comes out for the ACC though.
We'll see a day where Carolina and Duke basketball are individually packaged, Ohio State and Michigan football, Bama and damn near every SEC program, especially as younger casual fans start to take over the market. The new game will be maximize the large fanbases individually and lean into the customization streaming offers. The best thing about the GOR is it buys the conference time to navigate these changes.
In short, no, the ACC is not doomed in 2036. It is secure in its future.
(03-15-2023 07:35 AM)esayem Wrote: The Big XII is already making noise about bundling basketball separate from football. Why? Because they are looking to maximize profit for their individual sports.
The ACC would be wise to follow this move, and take it a step further to package individual programs. Why? Because this is going to happen anyway, may as well be on the cutting edge. Individually package FSU and Clemson football—and whichever schools can make more individually—while packaging the rest. A cut still comes out for the ACC though.
We'll see a day where Carolina and Duke basketball are individually packaged, Ohio State and Michigan football, Bama and damn near every SEC program, especially as younger casual fans start to take over the market. The new game will be maximize the large fanbases individually and lean into the customization streaming offers. The best thing about the GOR is it buys the conference time to navigate these changes.
In short, no, the ACC is not doomed in 2036. It is secure in its future.
(03-14-2023 01:47 PM)CardinalJim Wrote: 13 years is a long time to try to predict what’s going to happen. Using today’s paradigm I can see where it might be easy to think The ACC is dead at the end of the contract. I for one don’t see how anything has changed.
Too many here are listening to The Big 12 fan boys celebrate a big nothing.
The Big 12 signed a contract with Fox / ESPN that puts them on hold for a few years for little escalation. That 5 or 6 year contract doesn’t make The Big 12 safe in 2032 or whatever year it expires. The contract serves as a placeholder for ESPN. It serves the same purpose the LHN did for ESPN the last media cycle. The only difference is ESPN got Fox to help pay for keeping The Big 12 on the string.
The Big 12 is presently celebrating getting more money than they expected to get without Texas and Oklahoma. I can see why Cincinnati, UCF, Houston and BYU are happy. From their perspective that’s a big step up. You’ll never hear the any of the 6 original Big 12 leftovers, WVU and TCU complain but they can’t be happy. Big 12 fans are so busy celebrating their contract, they haven’t stopped long enough to think that ESPN didn’t see the conference valuable enough to invest in a linear network with them a decade ago and they don’t believe the conference is valuable enough to pay for all of its content now.
Think about that. Fox wholly carries The Big Ten. NBC wholly carries Notre Dame and ESPN wholly carries The SEC and The ACC. The only conference that shares its rights between two entities is The Big 12. It looks like The PAC will be in the same situation. The Big 12 is smugly looking down its nose at The PAC not realizing they’re in the same boat. If a broadcast partner sees value in your rights product they don’t share the rights.
I still believe ESPN has bigger plans for The ACC. The ACC is still going to make more money than The Big 12 and still be solidly #3. The ACC contract is back loaded that’s been known for years.
It’s easy to see FSU complain about money. They complained back in 2011 and still signed the original ACC GOR in 2013 and the ACC GOR extension in 2016. My point is everyone can complain but it doesn’t mean schools won’t sign the next contract. Personally I hope every university complains.
I’ve said it for the last year. There are going to be some disappointed fans come 2036. They’ll be packing their bags for The SEC or The Big Ten but won’t be going anywhere.
So no I don’t see The ACC as doomed. I did until I saw the contract numbers on what The Big 12 got. That contract shows ESPN’s value to that conference is just above The AAC but still well below The ACC. The Big 12 got go away money from ESPN.
If ESPN facilitates the movement of ACC teams to The SEC in 2037, I’m confident The ACC will have a choice of what Big 12 / PAC teams to add. I still don’t believe we’re guaranteed to see that happen though.
I remember multiple posters on this board said that the B12 is the third most stable league and many ACC teams would leave for the B12.
To me that was the craziest thought. I do see the potential threat in the future if the ACC leadership doesn’t act. But as of now, the ACC is still in a much stronger position than the B12.
(03-15-2023 07:35 AM)esayem Wrote: The Big XII is already making noise about bundling basketball separate from football. Why? Because they are looking to maximize profit for their individual sports.
The ACC would be wise to follow this move, and take it a step further to package individual programs. Why? Because this is going to happen anyway, may as well be on the cutting edge. Individually package FSU and Clemson football—and whichever schools can make more individually—while packaging the rest. A cut still comes out for the ACC though.
We'll see a day where Carolina and Duke basketball are individually packaged, Ohio State and Michigan football, Bama and damn near every SEC program, especially as younger casual fans start to take over the market. The new game will be maximize the large fanbases individually and lean into the customization streaming offers. The best thing about the GOR is it buys the conference time to navigate these changes.
In short, no, the ACC is not doomed in 2036. It is secure in its future.
who you gonna play ...
there wouldn’t be Ali w/o Frazier ...
too big for your britches ...
(03-14-2023 11:52 PM)ThompsonCreekTiger Wrote: I think enough of the money-making or top-brand schools either A) find a way to challenge the GOR, or B) find a way to dissolve the conference so that GOR & exit fees are a non-factor.
How, I don't know. But the ACC leadership has mismanaged every move since the 2010 realignment wave to try & make the league more valuable or negotiate multiple TV partners.
Instead of trying to get out of the ACC, Clemson and FSU should be lining up allies to TAKE OVER!
(03-14-2023 11:52 PM)ThompsonCreekTiger Wrote: I think enough of the money-making or top-brand schools either A) find a way to challenge the GOR, or B) find a way to dissolve the conference so that GOR & exit fees are a non-factor.
How, I don't know. But the ACC leadership has mismanaged every move since the 2010 realignment wave to try & make the league more valuable or negotiate multiple TV partners.
Instead of trying to get out of the ACC, Clemson and FSU should be lining up allies to TAKE OVER!
