(01-26-2023 02:01 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 01:54 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  If you're going to try for NC, add Duke to the list.

The true package deal in NC is UNC with NCST, not UNC with Duke.

For the SEC, yes. For the B10, no.

I’ll go with the real package deal is all 3, that’s what create value. Just like having Purdue brings value to the big 10 with its rivalry with IU and Michigan state playing Michigan.

if the Big Ten really wanted to get big, they'd discuss a merger with the SEC and sprinkle in a few of the top programs that they wanted from the PAC, ACC, B12 and basically create a new division of football in the process.

(01-26-2023 03:09 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 02:01 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 01:54 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  If you're going to try for NC, add Duke to the list.

The true package deal in NC is UNC with NCST, not UNC with Duke.

For the SEC, yes. For the B10, no.

Agreed - just like Stanford, Duke is the elite of elite amongst universities in the world. For an academically focused conference like B1G, they are a prize given that Duke also is one of the very best in all sports while being adequate enough in football (unlike similar non-Ivy elite and AAU private schools Rice, Vanderbilt, Tulane during usual years).

(01-26-2023 03:03 PM)Poster Wrote:  As Frank notes, Duke basketball is probably the single biggest college basketball brand in the United States.

I seriously doubt that Duke will get a Power 2 invite, but Duke basketball is more valuable than NC State football is.

Duke is definitely superior to NCSU academically, as well.

But, really, I'm not arguing that Duke is a real Power 2 candidate. I'm arguing that NCSU is not by any stretch of the imagination a Power 2 candidate. They're even less of a P2 candidate than Duke, who themselves is not a P2 candidate.

They are if the NC government hitches Wolfie's little red wagon to a baby blue one.

(01-26-2023 03:48 PM)AntiG Wrote:  Agreed - just like Stanford, Duke is the elite of elite amongst universities in the world. For an academically focused conference like B1G, they are a prize given that Duke also is one of the very best in all sports while being adequate enough in football (unlike similar non-Ivy elite and AAU private schools Rice, Vanderbilt, Tulane during usual years).

Vanderbilt football is a step up from Duke. It just is. But I'll give you Tulane and Rice. If the B1G wants to write the check for Duke academics so be it ... but Coach K is gone now so sober accounting shows that Duke is coming all what is likely an all-time high ceiling. Maybe Scheyer achieves at a Coach K like level and they keep it going. But historically that would be highly unusual. Duke of course passes any muster academically. But they're a real risk athletically in this environment. Lots of downside that's easy to imagine. Not much additional upside that can be conjured up short of Coach K un-retiring.

(01-26-2023 04:05 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 03:48 PM)AntiG Wrote:  Agreed - just like Stanford, Duke is the elite of elite amongst universities in the world. For an academically focused conference like B1G, they are a prize given that Duke also is one of the very best in all sports while being adequate enough in football (unlike similar non-Ivy elite and AAU private schools Rice, Vanderbilt, Tulane during usual years).

Vanderbilt football is a step up from Duke. It just is. But I'll give you Tulane and Rice. If the B1G wants to write the check for Duke academics so be it ... but Coach K is gone now so sober accounting shows that Duke is coming all what is likely an all-time high ceiling. Maybe Scheyer achieves at a Coach K like level and they keep it going. But historically that would be highly unusual. Duke of course passes any muster academically. But they're a real risk athletically in this environment. Lots of downside that's easy to imagine. Not much additional upside that can be conjured up short of Coach K un-retiring.

How Duke responds post Coach K is the big wild card. If the Big Ten can get the Coach K era Duke or even something close in terms of men's basketball, they'll be thrilled. I think worse case scenario for Duke in terms of men's basketball is they became Nebraska football level or Indiana men's basketball level and even then that puts them ahead of Northwestern, Stanford, or Vanderbilt in terms of snotty rich private schools that are liked by the Big Ten strictly for their academics.

Also Duke/North Carolina in men's basketball is THE rivalry just like Ohio State/Michigan or Alabama/Auburn is in football. Duke doesn't necessarily have to be great for the game to be big, as long as North Carolina is the games (plural) will be big and people will watch them. Both Duke and Carolina went through a coaching game recently, UNC probably is the more likely to stay good since they have won national championships under Dean Smith and Roy Williams while Duke has only won under Krzyzewski. Carolina also made the Final Four last year under Hubert Davis. But I have a good feeling about Duke staying good throughout the next generation.

(01-26-2023 04:01 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 03:03 PM)Poster Wrote:  As Frank notes, Duke basketball is probably the single biggest college basketball brand in the United States.

I seriously doubt that Duke will get a Power 2 invite, but Duke basketball is more valuable than NC State football is.

Duke is definitely superior to NCSU academically, as well.

But, really, I'm not arguing that Duke is a real Power 2 candidate. I'm arguing that NCSU is not by any stretch of the imagination a Power 2 candidate. They're even less of a P2 candidate than Duke, who themselves is not a P2 candidate.

They are if the NC government hitches Wolfie's little red wagon to a baby blue one.

If the North Carolina Governor tries attaching NC State to UNC, then UNC won’t be able to get a Power 2 invite. It’s that simple.


Frankly, this is one of the reasons why I suspect that UNC might be the one and only school that might actually turn down a Power 2 invite. They might realize that they won’t be able to drag NC State, Duke, et al along with them, so they might stay in the ACC.

(01-26-2023 06:21 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 04:01 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 03:03 PM)Poster Wrote:  As Frank notes, Duke basketball is probably the single biggest college basketball brand in the United States.

I seriously doubt that Duke will get a Power 2 invite, but Duke basketball is more valuable than NC State football is.

Duke is definitely superior to NCSU academically, as well.

But, really, I'm not arguing that Duke is a real Power 2 candidate. I'm arguing that NCSU is not by any stretch of the imagination a Power 2 candidate. They're even less of a P2 candidate than Duke, who themselves is not a P2 candidate.

They are if the NC government hitches Wolfie's little red wagon to a baby blue one.

If the North Carolina Governor tries attaching NC State to UNC, then UNC won’t be able to get a Power 2 invite. It’s that simple.


Frankly, this is one of the reasons why I suspect that UNC might be the one and only school that might actually turn down a Power 2 invite. They might realize that they won’t be able to drag NC State, Duke, et al along with them, so they might stay in the ACC.

NCState isn't one of the worst "little brother" schools I can think of. If I had a choice between UNC-NCSt, Ore-OrSt, Wash-WSU, Kan-KSU, or Colo-CSU, I'm taking UNC-NCSt. Virginia-Virginia Tech would be up there. Arizona-Arizona State wouldn't be bad as a pair.

(01-26-2023 06:26 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 06:21 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 04:01 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 03:03 PM)Poster Wrote:  As Frank notes, Duke basketball is probably the single biggest college basketball brand in the United States.

I seriously doubt that Duke will get a Power 2 invite, but Duke basketball is more valuable than NC State football is.

Duke is definitely superior to NCSU academically, as well.

But, really, I'm not arguing that Duke is a real Power 2 candidate. I'm arguing that NCSU is not by any stretch of the imagination a Power 2 candidate. They're even less of a P2 candidate than Duke, who themselves is not a P2 candidate.

They are if the NC government hitches Wolfie's little red wagon to a baby blue one.

If the North Carolina Governor tries attaching NC State to UNC, then UNC won’t be able to get a Power 2 invite. It’s that simple.


Frankly, this is one of the reasons why I suspect that UNC might be the one and only school that might actually turn down a Power 2 invite. They might realize that they won’t be able to drag NC State, Duke, et al along with them, so they might stay in the ACC.

NCState isn't one of the worst "little brother" schools I can think of. If I had a choice between UNC-NCSt, Ore-OrSt, Wash-WSU, Kan-KSU, or Colo-CSU, I'm taking UNC-NCSt. Virginia-Virginia Tech would be up there. Arizona-Arizona State wouldn't be bad as a pair.

And who the hell is suggesting Oregon State, Washington State, Kansas State or Colorado State as a P2 candidate? Being a somewhat less bad Power 2 candidate than those schools is completely meaningless.

(01-26-2023 06:28 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 06:26 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 06:21 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 04:01 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 03:03 PM)Poster Wrote:  As Frank notes, Duke basketball is probably the single biggest college basketball brand in the United States.

I seriously doubt that Duke will get a Power 2 invite, but Duke basketball is more valuable than NC State football is.

Duke is definitely superior to NCSU academically, as well.

But, really, I'm not arguing that Duke is a real Power 2 candidate. I'm arguing that NCSU is not by any stretch of the imagination a Power 2 candidate. They're even less of a P2 candidate than Duke, who themselves is not a P2 candidate.

They are if the NC government hitches Wolfie's little red wagon to a baby blue one.

If the North Carolina Governor tries attaching NC State to UNC, then UNC won’t be able to get a Power 2 invite. It’s that simple.


Frankly, this is one of the reasons why I suspect that UNC might be the one and only school that might actually turn down a Power 2 invite. They might realize that they won’t be able to drag NC State, Duke, et al along with them, so they might stay in the ACC.

NCState isn't one of the worst "little brother" schools I can think of. If I had a choice between UNC-NCSt, Ore-OrSt, Wash-WSU, Kan-KSU, or Colo-CSU, I'm taking UNC-NCSt. Virginia-Virginia Tech would be up there. Arizona-Arizona State wouldn't be bad as a pair.

And who the hell is suggesting Oregon State, Washington State, Kansas State or Colorado State as a P2 candidate? Being a somewhat less bad Power 2 candidate than those schools is completely meaningless.

Someone in politics in Washington is proposing a bill mandating UW and WSU be in the same conference. I heard rumors about Kansas as well. If these states can do it, why not others?

(01-26-2023 08:41 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 06:28 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 06:26 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 06:21 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 04:01 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  They are if the NC government hitches Wolfie's little red wagon to a baby blue one.

If the North Carolina Governor tries attaching NC State to UNC, then UNC won’t be able to get a Power 2 invite. It’s that simple.


Frankly, this is one of the reasons why I suspect that UNC might be the one and only school that might actually turn down a Power 2 invite. They might realize that they won’t be able to drag NC State, Duke, et al along with them, so they might stay in the ACC.

NCState isn't one of the worst "little brother" schools I can think of. If I had a choice between UNC-NCSt, Ore-OrSt, Wash-WSU, Kan-KSU, or Colo-CSU, I'm taking UNC-NCSt. Virginia-Virginia Tech would be up there. Arizona-Arizona State wouldn't be bad as a pair.

And who the hell is suggesting Oregon State, Washington State, Kansas State or Colorado State as a P2 candidate? Being a somewhat less bad Power 2 candidate than those schools is completely meaningless.

Someone in politics in Washington is proposing a bill mandating UW and WSU be in the same conference. I heard rumors about Kansas as well. If these states can do it, why not others?

Kansas, Kansas St, and Wichita are now required to notify any of three specific members of the Kansas BOR if they are thinking of moving conference or have even been contacted by another conference. Some KU fans immediately took this to mean that would be tethered for eternity. Then, another Kansas BOR member makes a public statement that any BOR member can call for a vote of the entire BOR, making it unlikely that a school desiring to change conferences would be denied the opportunity to better its athletic affiliation. As I posted in another thread, KU's more pressing problem would be securing a P2 invitation. The UW-WSU bill has been discussed but I don't know if it has been proposed in the WA legislature; the legislator who first talked about the proposal is, I think, a WSU alum.