(01-23-2023 10:26 AM)Claw Wrote:  I wouldn't rule anything out. The BIG XII Commish seems hell bent to expand across all time zones. That vision may override the temporary financial evaluations. I think he believes that expansion will grow revenues on its own in the long run.

...I guess this was my original thought, that Yormark wants to expand with PAC and/or MWC coast programs (read: SDSU/Fresno)... Obviously the BigXII has Texas in hand, and it would be 'redundant' in ways, but grabbing SMU WOULD 'lock out' the PAC entering Texas, or at least diminish the options a bit further.

As such, it might make it easier down the road for the BigXII to grab those elusive PAC programs, if expansion options for the PAC are reduced/removed... the 'balance' is how many can the BigXII take on without overdilution (yeah that's a new word )?

He's repeatedly said only if expansion makes sense.

How does Fresno make West Virginia or UCF more money?

(01-23-2023 07:54 PM)cc22 Wrote:  He's repeatedly said only if expansion makes sense.

How does Fresno make West Virginia or UCF more money?

They don’t and won’t. End thread.

Why in the world would the B12 want SMU in 2023 when they didn't want them in 2022?

(01-22-2023 09:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-21-2023 10:28 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  SMU is redundant as long as TCU is in the Big XII. So is South Florida.

I don't think USF is nearly as redundant with UCF as SMU is with TCU. Not sure USF is redundant at all.

Then again, I'm partial to USF. :)

Last time I checked, Tampa and Orlando are separate DMAs. And I’m pretty sure Dallas and Ft Worth are in the same DMA.

(01-23-2023 07:54 PM)cc22 Wrote:  He's repeatedly said only if expansion makes sense.

How does Fresno make West Virginia or UCF more money?

Right, the revenue would be about the same for WV and CF. So Memphis and USF would have to be added as well in order to lessen WV’s and CF’s travel budget. UCONN, also might be a good fit in the Big12.

SDSU…Fres….UNLV….Boise…BYU
ISU…….Kan….K St.… OK St….TTU
Bay…… TCU….SMU…. Hou……UTSA
Conn….WV…..Cin……. ECU…..Mem
UCF…….USF….UAB……Tuln……GA St

Army, Navy and Air Force are football independents but are scheduled 6 Big12 games each. Like Notre Dame is to ACC but military academies’ oly sports not in Big12.

4 team conference football playoff between the 4 highest ranked teams (including military academies).

This is a scheduling matrix. A team plays all in their horizontal line and their vertical line.

Horizontal lines remain the same members but are shuffled every two years to change vertical line make up’s.

Newbies agree to half-shares for the life of the tv contract.

In light of this, and Fox not getting any PAC tv content, Fox agrees, along with ESPN, to increase overall Big12 tv contract. Fox wanting to do so so they have western content beyond only USCLA and BYU.

(01-22-2023 02:55 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(01-22-2023 09:03 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Adding USF would make more sense for the Big 12 than adding SMU. And that is not a slight of SMU as it would be a very solid addition to the Pac 12.

The USF-UCF rivalry makes having the pair far more advantageous, for any conference, than having either by itself.

This.

(01-24-2023 09:18 AM)Fresno Fanatic Wrote:  

(01-23-2023 07:54 PM)cc22 Wrote:  He's repeatedly said only if expansion makes sense.

How does Fresno make West Virginia or UCF more money?

Right, the revenue would be about the same for WV and CF. So Memphis and USF would have to be added as well in order to lessen WV’s and CF’s travel budget. UCONN, also might be a good fit in the Big12.

SDSU…Fres….UNLV….Boise…BYU
ISU…….Kan….K St.… OK St….TTU
Bay…… TCU….SMU…. Hou……UTSA
Conn….WV…..Cin……. ECU…..Mem
UCF…….USF….UAB……Tuln……GA St

Army, Navy and Air Force are football independents but are scheduled 6 Big12 games each. Like Notre Dame is to ACC but military academies’ oly sports not in Big12.

4 team conference football playoff between the 4 highest ranked teams (including military academies).

This is a scheduling matrix. A team plays all in their horizontal line and their vertical line.

Horizontal lines remain the same members but are shuffled every two years to change vertical line make up’s.

Newbies agree to half-shares for the life of the tv contract.

In light of this, and Fox not getting any PAC tv content, Fox agrees, along with ESPN, to increase overall Big12 tv contract. Fox wanting to do so so they have western content beyond only USCLA and BYU.

Better yet, 3 divisions of 9 with military academies as I mentioned above.

WEST DIV
San Diego
Fresno
UNLV
Boise
BYU
Colo St
SMU
UTSA
Rice


CENTRAL DIV
Iowa St
Kansas
Kansas St
Okla St
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU
Houston
Tulane

EASTERN DIV
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Connecticut
ECU
Memphis
UAB
GA St
UCF
USF

Football ind: Army, Navy, Air Force

*Most of the newbies would most likely be football-only, btw. Maybe not, but good chance that will be the case.

(01-23-2023 10:18 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(01-22-2023 09:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-21-2023 10:28 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  SMU is redundant as long as TCU is in the Big XII. So is South Florida.

I don't think USF is nearly as redundant with UCF as SMU is with TCU. Not sure USF is redundant at all.

Then again, I'm partial to USF. :)

While I am in no hurry to add USF, I agree with you. Tampa and Orlando are their own large markets, And it would make an easy travel partner.

Agree with this, but don't agree with "Not sure USF is redundant at all" - it has to be at least someone redundant and I have a good example of that - me. I'm a UCF grad living that the Tampa Bay market and I know quite a few more. They are two large markets and both have value in their own right, but with the two schools and markets so close to each other you naturally have some overlap of fans.

(01-24-2023 09:52 AM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(01-23-2023 10:18 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(01-22-2023 09:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-21-2023 10:28 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  SMU is redundant as long as TCU is in the Big XII. So is South Florida.

I don't think USF is nearly as redundant with UCF as SMU is with TCU. Not sure USF is redundant at all.

Then again, I'm partial to USF. :)

While I am in no hurry to add USF, I agree with you. Tampa and Orlando are their own large markets, And it would make an easy travel partner.

Agree with this, but don't agree with "Not sure USF is redundant at all" - it has to be at least someone redundant and I have a good example of that - me. I'm a UCF grad living that the Tampa Bay market and I know quite a few more. They are two large markets and both have value in their own right, but with the two schools and markets so close to each other you naturally have some overlap of fans.

IMO, to the extent that USF and UCF have any overlap, it is not of a "city" variety but more of a state thing. If we think of "Florida" as a market, then sure, USF is redundant with UCF at that level.

But in my experience, even though obviously there are UCF grads in Tampa and USF grads in Orlando, at the city level, Tampa and Orlando are clearly two different "places". They have distinct cultural identities.

(01-24-2023 09:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 09:52 AM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(01-23-2023 10:18 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(01-22-2023 09:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-21-2023 10:28 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  SMU is redundant as long as TCU is in the Big XII. So is South Florida.

I don't think USF is nearly as redundant with UCF as SMU is with TCU. Not sure USF is redundant at all.

Then again, I'm partial to USF. :)

While I am in no hurry to add USF, I agree with you. Tampa and Orlando are their own large markets, And it would make an easy travel partner.

Agree with this, but don't agree with "Not sure USF is redundant at all" - it has to be at least someone redundant and I have a good example of that - me. I'm a UCF grad living that the Tampa Bay market and I know quite a few more. They are two large markets and both have value in their own right, but with the two schools and markets so close to each other you naturally have some overlap of fans.

IMO, to the extent that USF and UCF have any overlap, it is not of a "city" variety but more of a state thing. If we think of "Florida" as a market, then sure, USF is redundant with UCF at that level.

But in my experience, even though obviously there are UCF grads in Tampa and USF grads in Orlando, at the city level, Tampa and Orlando are clearly two different "places". They have distinct cultural identities.

Exactly correct.

(01-24-2023 09:18 AM)Fresno Fanatic Wrote:  

(01-23-2023 07:54 PM)cc22 Wrote:  He's repeatedly said only if expansion makes sense.

How does Fresno make West Virginia or UCF more money?

Right, the revenue would be about the same for WV and CF. So Memphis and USF would have to be added as well in order to lessen WV’s and CF’s travel budget. UCONN, also might be a good fit in the Big12.

SDSU…Fres….UNLV….Boise…BYU
ISU…….Kan….K St.… OK St….TTU
Bay…… TCU….SMU…. Hou……UTSA
Conn….WV…..Cin……. ECU…..Mem
UCF…….USF….UAB……Tuln……GA St

Army, Navy and Air Force are football independents but are scheduled 6 Big12 games each. Like Notre Dame is to ACC but military academies’ oly sports not in Big12.

4 team conference football playoff between the 4 highest ranked teams (including military academies).

This is a scheduling matrix. A team plays all in their horizontal line and their vertical line.

Horizontal lines remain the same members but are shuffled every two years to change vertical line make up’s.

Newbies agree to half-shares for the life of the tv contract.

In light of this, and Fox not getting any PAC tv content, Fox agrees, along with ESPN, to increase overall Big12 tv contract. Fox wanting to do so so they have western content beyond only USCLA and BYU.

The Big 12 didn't invite Cincinnati, and Cincinnati didn't join the Big 12, so that they can play Connecticut, ECU, and Memphis. UCF isn't in the Big 12 so that they can play UAB, Tulane, and Georgia State. BYU isn't in the Big 12 so that they can play Fresno State and UNLV. Houston isn't in the Big 12 so that they can play SMU and UTSA.

A couple of the new schools you list are on the possible-Big-12-expansion radar. The others on Yormark's board are currently in the PAC 12 and ACC.

The Big 12 has no reason to invite another G5 school until the PAC actually has a signed TV contract in hand. Even then, it probably would not be worth it and just better to wait for future B1G/SEC expansion.

If the PAC somehow stabilizes under a new TV deal, it won't be because they are adding SMU and SDSU.

(01-24-2023 09:01 AM)Fresno Fanatic Wrote:  

(01-22-2023 09:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-21-2023 10:28 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  SMU is redundant as long as TCU is in the Big XII. So is South Florida.

I don't think USF is nearly as redundant with UCF as SMU is with TCU. Not sure USF is redundant at all.

Then again, I'm partial to USF. :)

Last time I checked, Tampa and Orlando are separate DMAs. And I’m pretty sure Dallas and Ft Worth are in the same DMA.

What relevance do DMAs have to the BigXII? What part of their revenue structure is market based?

(01-22-2023 02:55 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(01-22-2023 09:03 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Adding USF would make more sense for the Big 12 than adding SMU. And that is not a slight of SMU as it would be a very solid addition to the Pac 12.

The USF-UCF rivalry makes having the pair far more advantageous, for any conference, than having either by itself.

Why?

There seems to be this conventional wisdom that having pairs of schools is synergistic for the conference, and I see no real evidence that this is the case.

I’d argue that doubling down, unless it’s a premium rivalry that draws interest at the national level (viewers from outside the conference’s and rivals’ typical viewership) that it’s actually detrimental to the conferences which generally, and especially if they have a conference network, benefit from diversifying their portfolio.


If you can get a portion of USF fans that already hate-watch UCF without having to pay them a conference share, that’s a big financial win.

Like some on this board, I see UCF and USF as being located in two very different cities and very different markets. Both bring significant pluses to the table.

Now, that is not to say that the Big 12 needs to invite USF to create a "synergy" with the two schools. But, IF the Big 12 did invite USF at some point ... I would fully understand the reasoning behind that invite.

(01-24-2023 01:40 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Like some on this board, I see UCF and USF as being located in two very different cities and very different markets. Both bring significant pluses to the table.

Now, that is not to say that the Big 12 needs to invite USF to create a "synergy" with the two schools. But, IF the Big 12 did invite USF at some point ... I would fully understand the reasoning behind that invite.

That's basically my take as well.

Sad to say, I don't see any current reason for the nB12 or any other better conference to take USF. We just aren't worthy.

But if we do get taken at some point, like you I would see the logic behind it.

(01-24-2023 09:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 09:52 AM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(01-23-2023 10:18 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(01-22-2023 09:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-21-2023 10:28 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  SMU is redundant as long as TCU is in the Big XII. So is South Florida.

I don't think USF is nearly as redundant with UCF as SMU is with TCU. Not sure USF is redundant at all.

Then again, I'm partial to USF. :)

While I am in no hurry to add USF, I agree with you. Tampa and Orlando are their own large markets, And it would make an easy travel partner.

Agree with this, but don't agree with "Not sure USF is redundant at all" - it has to be at least someone redundant and I have a good example of that - me. I'm a UCF grad living that the Tampa Bay market and I know quite a few more. They are two large markets and both have value in their own right, but with the two schools and markets so close to each other you naturally have some overlap of fans.

IMO, to the extent that USF and UCF have any overlap, it is not of a "city" variety but more of a state thing. If we think of "Florida" as a market, then sure, USF is redundant with UCF at that level.

But in my experience, even though obviously there are UCF grads in Tampa and USF grads in Orlando, at the city level, Tampa and Orlando are clearly two different "places". They have distinct cultural identities.

Yes, I agree with you in terms of them being two different places with distinct cultural identities. I was only making the point in terms television markets and eyeballs watching television. Given how close the markets are, there is inevitably some amount of overlap in that respect on both ends.