(01-19-2023 11:33 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 11:06 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 08:47 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 08:16 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  This is an article from 2021, prior to Big 12 expansion, outlining updates to the university master plan & an OCS has never been truly considered. Oh, its been given lip service to appease alumni, but it has never been anything more than that… appeasement.

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/n...642726001/

Exactly. An OCS has never been part of the university master plan, never. And even in light of the Henry (?) report, demonstrating location options & viable financing options, our university never took any action to plan for an OCS at any time in the future.

Recently, ESPN got its hands on a document linking West Virginia president Gordon Gee – a member of the league’s composition committee – to Memphis, UCF, Houston and Colorado State. The rumor mill finally had a little substance to keep it churning.

Quote:We learned that Memphis president M. David Rudd not only wrote a letter to Gee, but University of Oklahoma president David Boren and Baylor president Ken Starr, among others, while pledging a $500 million investment in athletics and academics over a five-year span.

No reading comprehension, no clue what is going on, and lying about everything. Another tap-in par for Atlanta. Go check on the Henry Report. What a joke.

There is no mention of an OCS, yet there is proof that the financial commitment was there… which again points to the reason why those of us who have followed this for 2 decades are frustrated by the obvious lack of prep or planning. We react, but there is no plan.

It is like talking to a brick wall. It is you and two other posters who can't seem to understand the sequence of events. This is the blueprint.

- Do a study to determine what each will cost
- Contact ALL major boosters and get financial commitments or at least the amounts of potential contributions
- Speak to everyone at a corporate level to gauge donations
- Speak to everyone at every level of municipal and state government to see if funds are available
- Estimate how much the fanbase will donate

You do NOT EVER under any circumstances...

- Start a campaign to raise funds for an OCS unless you are confident that you have 50-75% of the funding in place already
- Start any type of campaign to raise funds for an OCS when you know the city and the state won't help fund it
- Put a stadium in a master plan, knowing that you have no way of funding it

ALL of the right steps were taken before it was announced that the LB would be renovated. The school contacted everyone that needed to be contacted, whether it was boosters, the governments at both the municipal and state levels, and they did the studies to determine that costs for both options.

That is the end of it.

Hmmm......I always thought a master plan was the start of planning, then long term forecasting etc, etc. How could I have been so wrong in all those years of corp finance. I should have instead held secret undocumented discussions, clandestine studies, private meetings & relied upon hearsay.

(01-19-2023 02:59 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Hmmm......I always thought a master plan was the start of planning, then long term forecasting etc, etc. How could I have been so wrong in all those years of corp finance. I should have instead held secret undocumented discussions, clandestine studies, private meetings & relied upon hearsay.

You are quoting the Henry Report, saying our admin didn't talk to any level of government, said that our admin made no commitment to building a stadium, and now flat out lying, claiming that the Big 12 communicated to us that we needed a new stadium.

Quote:How could I have been so wrong in all those years of corp finance

That is the mystery. You are the "expert" according to you, and you don't even know the most basic component to all this; to everything you claim is wrong about the school and the admin.

Quote:And even in light of the Henry (?) report

The Henry Report with a question mark. What a clown.

(01-19-2023 02:59 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Hmmm......I always thought a master plan was the start of planning, then long term forecasting etc, etc. How could I have been so wrong in all those years of corp finance. I should have instead held secret undocumented discussions, clandestine studies, private meetings & relied upon hearsay.

Speaking of secret, undocumented discussions and hearsay...

Quote:Do you see a pattern? And this pattern is simply contrary to the investment the B12 (& prior possibilities) communicated they wanted to see for invitation consideration

Still waiting for a link.

(01-19-2023 02:59 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Hmmm......I always thought a master plan was the start of planning, then long term forecasting etc, etc. How could I have been so wrong in all those years of corp finance. I should have instead held secret undocumented discussions, clandestine studies, private meetings & relied upon hearsay.

So now you are saying that every single phase deciding upon a master plan is public, and every decision is public knowledge while they go through the process? That is even more ridiculous, even for you. I googled Henry Report and couldn't find anything. You seem to know everything about how the school went about this process, but I can't find anything on it.

Do you have a link to the Henry Report?

(01-19-2023 02:59 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Hmmm......I always thought a master plan was the start of planning, then long term forecasting etc, etc. How could I have been so wrong in all those years of corp finance. I should have instead held secret undocumented discussions, clandestine studies, private meetings & relied upon hearsay.

That's interesting. So what you're saying is that the corporation you were employed by publicly disclosed all of its research, internal discussions, and strategic planning? Please, tell us more. There should be no concern at all, as it would all be a matter of public record, correct?

(01-18-2023 08:21 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:54 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:04 PM)aardWolf Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:00 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  It's not up to you to define my thinking or restrict my words to your narrow purpose but clearly you lack understanding of how states finsnce projects. State funding is synonymous with the state backing bonds to provide the financing. This revenue surplus the state currently has?
The state won't divvy it out like a hand out nor have I implied that, it will be deposited & the balance used as collateral for financing. The project(s) itself will payoff the financing & that allows politicians to claim no use of public funds. Same for student funds. The students aren't on the hook for the pay back, it's a university commitment to increase student activity fees (that the university controls) for a defined period that will pay off the financing, hence"no public financing" but you can be sure the state is on the hook if there is default. You are simply arguing a distinction without a difference - and in your case simply arguing.

By all means, let’s pay for an OCS with student activity funds. That’s $300 million divided by 20,000 students. That’s $3,750 per year per student for four years. Or we could do $150 per student for 100 years. But I say we just charge $15,000 per student for one year and get it all paid for.

Enrollment is one of the major issues.

UCF 61,000 X $300 = $18.3 million
Houston 40,000 X $300 = $12 million
Cincinnati 28,000 X $200 = $8.4 million

Memphis 22,000 X $300 = $6.6 million

Enrollment has been stagnant for as long as I can remember.

The difference is actually even worse than that.

Cincinnati - 47,914
UCF - 68,422
Houston - 46,700

And yeah Memphis has been stagnant. Here are the Fall enrollment numbers going back to 2013.

https://www.memphis.edu/oir/data/public_...trends.php

Thanks for the real figures Alanda-------The other guy --wrong again----imagine that ----you would think just by accident --just sometimes--maybe by even a misstroke of the keys --just once --just once ever --that there is an accurate post----simply amazing

We had 22,000 thousand when I enrolled in 1977. It's criminal.

(01-19-2023 04:23 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 08:21 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:54 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:04 PM)aardWolf Wrote:  By all means, let’s pay for an OCS with student activity funds. That’s $300 million divided by 20,000 students. That’s $3,750 per year per student for four years. Or we could do $150 per student for 100 years. But I say we just charge $15,000 per student for one year and get it all paid for.

Enrollment is one of the major issues.

UCF 61,000 X $300 = $18.3 million
Houston 40,000 X $300 = $12 million
Cincinnati 28,000 X $200 = $8.4 million

Memphis 22,000 X $300 = $6.6 million

Enrollment has been stagnant for as long as I can remember.

The difference is actually even worse than that.

Cincinnati - 47,914
UCF - 68,422
Houston - 46,700

And yeah Memphis has been stagnant. Here are the Fall enrollment numbers going back to 2013.

https://www.memphis.edu/oir/data/public_...trends.php

Thanks for the real figures Alanda-------The other guy --wrong again----imagine that ----you would think just by accident --just sometimes--maybe by even a misstroke of the keys --just once --just once ever --that there is an accurate post----simply amazing

We had 22,000 thousand when I enrolled in 1977. It's criminal.

WOW--it is

(01-18-2023 08:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:54 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:04 PM)aardWolf Wrote:  By all means, let’s pay for an OCS with student activity funds. That’s $300 million divided by 20,000 students. That’s $3,750 per year per student for four years. Or we could do $150 per student for 100 years. But I say we just charge $15,000 per student for one year and get it all paid for.

Enrollment is one of the major issues.

UCF 61,000 X $300 = $18.3 million
Houston 40,000 X $300 = $12 million
Cincinnati 28,000 X $200 = $8.4 million

Memphis 22,000 X $300 = $6.6 million

Enrollment has been stagnant for as long as I can remember.

The difference is actually even worse than that.

Cincinnati - 47,914
UCF - 68,422
Houston - 46,700

And yeah Memphis has been stagnant. Here are the Fall enrollment numbers going back to 2013.

https://www.memphis.edu/oir/data/public_...trends.php

Thank you, I thought the other numbers were much higher. I got them straight off of Wikipedia.

You're welcome. I had already found them for a discussion awhile back so I figured it would help the point you were making.

(01-19-2023 11:41 AM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 11:33 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  There is no mention of an OCS.

There is no mention of there not being an OCS. Half a billion is a big number. It's not unreasonable to intuit that an OCS could be part of that figure.

Coincidentally I was looking at the plan last week. It includes maps of every campus including Lambuth. Starting at pg 71 of the pdf, one of the things the maps show is where future buildings are proposed to go. Not trying to be a smartass (trying to do better clarifying this on some posts), but I think it's safe to say that when looking at those buildings none of them are an OCS. It feels like if they were considering an OCS it would be on the maps.

(01-19-2023 04:23 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 08:21 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:54 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:04 PM)aardWolf Wrote:  By all means, let’s pay for an OCS with student activity funds. That’s $300 million divided by 20,000 students. That’s $3,750 per year per student for four years. Or we could do $150 per student for 100 years. But I say we just charge $15,000 per student for one year and get it all paid for.

Enrollment is one of the major issues.

UCF 61,000 X $300 = $18.3 million
Houston 40,000 X $300 = $12 million
Cincinnati 28,000 X $200 = $8.4 million

Memphis 22,000 X $300 = $6.6 million

Enrollment has been stagnant for as long as I can remember.

The difference is actually even worse than that.

Cincinnati - 47,914
UCF - 68,422
Houston - 46,700

And yeah Memphis has been stagnant. Here are the Fall enrollment numbers going back to 2013.

https://www.memphis.edu/oir/data/public_...trends.php

Thanks for the real figures Alanda-------The other guy --wrong again----imagine that ----you would think just by accident --just sometimes--maybe by even a misstroke of the keys --just once --just once ever --that there is an accurate post----simply amazing

We had 22,000 thousand when I enrolled in 1977. It's criminal.

To you and any others, what do you think caused the lack of student growth?

(01-19-2023 05:21 PM)Alanda Wrote:  Coincidentally I was looking at the plan last week. It includes maps of every campus including Lambuth. Starting at pg 71 of the pdf, one of the things the maps show is where future buildings are proposed to go. Not trying to be a smartass (trying to do better clarifying this on some posts), but I think it's safe to say that when looking at those buildings none of them are an OCS. It feels like if they were considering an OCS it would be on the maps.

I don't believe anyone would think you're being a smartass. Everyone should be striving to know the facts, and your assumption sounds reasonable. Do you have a link to the document you were reviewing? I wouldn't mind having a look myself.

(01-19-2023 04:23 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 08:21 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:54 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:04 PM)aardWolf Wrote:  By all means, let’s pay for an OCS with student activity funds. That’s $300 million divided by 20,000 students. That’s $3,750 per year per student for four years. Or we could do $150 per student for 100 years. But I say we just charge $15,000 per student for one year and get it all paid for.

Enrollment is one of the major issues.

UCF 61,000 X $300 = $18.3 million
Houston 40,000 X $300 = $12 million
Cincinnati 28,000 X $200 = $8.4 million

Memphis 22,000 X $300 = $6.6 million

Enrollment has been stagnant for as long as I can remember.

The difference is actually even worse than that.

Cincinnati - 47,914
UCF - 68,422
Houston - 46,700

And yeah Memphis has been stagnant. Here are the Fall enrollment numbers going back to 2013.

https://www.memphis.edu/oir/data/public_...trends.php

Thanks for the real figures Alanda-------The other guy --wrong again----imagine that ----you would think just by accident --just sometimes--maybe by even a misstroke of the keys --just once --just once ever --that there is an accurate post----simply amazing

We had 22,000 thousand when I enrolled in 1977. It's criminal.

Same for me in 96


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(01-19-2023 05:53 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 05:21 PM)Alanda Wrote:  Coincidentally I was looking at the plan last week. It includes maps of every campus including Lambuth. Starting at pg 71 of the pdf, one of the things the maps show is where future buildings are proposed to go. Not trying to be a smartass (trying to do better clarifying this on some posts), but I think it's safe to say that when looking at those buildings none of them are an OCS. It feels like if they were considering an OCS it would be on the maps.

I don't believe anyone would think you're being a smartass. Everyone should be striving to know the facts, and your assumption sounds reasonable. Do you have a link to the document you were reviewing? I wouldn't mind having a look myself.

https://www.memphis.edu/bot/pdfs/march_2...eeting.pdf

I was looking at it to see if my desired OCS location was being used. Looks like it would still be available.

(01-19-2023 06:05 PM)tnzazz Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 04:23 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 08:21 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:54 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Enrollment is one of the major issues.

UCF 61,000 X $300 = $18.3 million
Houston 40,000 X $300 = $12 million
Cincinnati 28,000 X $200 = $8.4 million

Memphis 22,000 X $300 = $6.6 million

Enrollment has been stagnant for as long as I can remember.

The difference is actually even worse than that.

Cincinnati - 47,914
UCF - 68,422
Houston - 46,700

And yeah Memphis has been stagnant. Here are the Fall enrollment numbers going back to 2013.

https://www.memphis.edu/oir/data/public_...trends.php

Thanks for the real figures Alanda-------The other guy --wrong again----imagine that ----you would think just by accident --just sometimes--maybe by even a misstroke of the keys --just once --just once ever --that there is an accurate post----simply amazing

We had 22,000 thousand when I enrolled in 1977. It's criminal.

Same for me in 96


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't understand it. Zero growth in over 40 years.

(01-20-2023 01:46 PM)Stammers Wrote:  I don't understand it. Zero growth in over 40 years.

I graduated from the U of M...my daughter recently graduated summa *** laude from the U of M & was not approved for graduate school there. She is now getting her Masters from the University of Wisconsin. Go figure...

I wonder how many FTE students the FedEx program adds to our enrollment? I admit I do not have many answers but I certainly have a lot of questions.

Well, if I could posit a theory without getting attacked,
What if we have perfectly threaded the needle of ramping up our quality of student (entry requirements) while not losing enrolment numbers? We reached R-1 without dropping total enrollment. I don't know if that is normal or not.

(01-21-2023 10:37 AM)Capn Munford Wrote:  

(01-20-2023 01:46 PM)Stammers Wrote:  I don't understand it. Zero growth in over 40 years.

I graduated from the U of M...my daughter recently graduated summa *** laude from the U of M & was not approved for graduate school there. She is now getting her Masters from the University of Wisconsin. Go figure...

I wonder how many FTE students the FedEx program adds to our enrollment? I admit I do not have many answers but I certainly have a lot of questions.

I hope that you wrote a very warm letter to the prez

(01-20-2023 01:46 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 06:05 PM)tnzazz Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 04:23 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 08:21 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 07:54 PM)Alanda Wrote:  The difference is actually even worse than that.

Cincinnati - 47,914
UCF - 68,422
Houston - 46,700

And yeah Memphis has been stagnant. Here are the Fall enrollment numbers going back to 2013.

https://www.memphis.edu/oir/data/public_...trends.php

Thanks for the real figures Alanda-------The other guy --wrong again----imagine that ----you would think just by accident --just sometimes--maybe by even a misstroke of the keys --just once --just once ever --that there is an accurate post----simply amazing

We had 22,000 thousand when I enrolled in 1977. It's criminal.

Same for me in 96


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't understand it. Zero growth in over 40 years.

It’s weird


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(01-22-2023 09:42 AM)tnzazz Wrote:  

(01-20-2023 01:46 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 06:05 PM)tnzazz Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 04:23 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 08:21 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  Thanks for the real figures Alanda-------The other guy --wrong again----imagine that ----you would think just by accident --just sometimes--maybe by even a misstroke of the keys --just once --just once ever --that there is an accurate post----simply amazing

We had 22,000 thousand when I enrolled in 1977. It's criminal.

Same for me in 96


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't understand it. Zero growth in over 40 years.

It’s weird


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They should be going down across the board in coming years. The reasons are pretty easy to understand. The Baby Boomers drove the expansion of colleges, along with the rise of major companies offering huge benefits. As the Boomers age out, and their kids, those companies are largely gone, along with the benefits. The need now is for technicians and specialists, which sends those folks to trade schools.

(01-22-2023 10:07 AM)TigerBill Wrote:  

(01-22-2023 09:42 AM)tnzazz Wrote:  

(01-20-2023 01:46 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 06:05 PM)tnzazz Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 04:23 PM)Claw Wrote:  We had 22,000 thousand when I enrolled in 1977. It's criminal.

Same for me in 96


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't understand it. Zero growth in over 40 years.

It’s weird


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They should be going down across the board in coming years. The reasons are pretty easy to understand. The Baby Boomers drove the expansion of colleges, along with the rise of major companies offering huge benefits. As the Boomers age out, and their kids, those companies are largely gone, along with the benefits. The need now is for technicians and specialists, which sends those folks to trade schools.

Hardgrave spoke of enrollment and all the indicators are noting that enrollment for most universities will be trending downward. It is what it is. Look at Cincy and L'ville over the same period. Not much growth there either.
You cannot compare us to Central Florida. Orlando has had a crazy population boom; meanwhile, Memphis area is only noting a small if any growth