(01-18-2023 05:57 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  All teams deal with setbacks. Injuries, players leaving, COVID - these are not unique to Memphis. And again, we are not discussing a one off year, we are discussing 5 straight years. There is a significant difference.

We've been dealing the Wiseman issue that entire time. You're going to discount the effect that can have on recruiting? I suppose if we were a blue blood it wouldn't matter, but we're not. The injuries wouldn't be so bad if recruiting wasn't hampered by the NCAA challenges. Are you forgetting we had what amounts to a Sweet 16 or better team last year too? Apparently.

Don't take my word for it.

Penny Hardaway: Favorable IARP decision a 'fresh start' for Memphis basketball

Quote:Even though Hardaway avoided a suspension and the Tigers’ postseason opportunity was spared, the past two-plus years were punishment enough.

“Of course it did, for three years it hurt the program, because a lot of things were looming,” he said, confirming rival schools tried to use the investigation against Memphis on the recruiting trail. “Now, there’s no cloud and there’s no other school that can hold that over our heads to another kid.

“It’s a great feeling to know that the guys know we’re going in without any kind of negativity on our backs. That we’re staying together. The new staff is meshing with the guys. It feels like a fresh start.”

(01-18-2023 05:50 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 03:28 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 08:47 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 01:47 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 02:32 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Yes, he is an elite recruiter. But this is not just recruiting a bunch of top 15 kids. Emoni, could not play in this defensive scheme and he a top level recruit. You have to have 5 guys on the court that can guard practically all 5 positions or have an elite rim protector. This roster has neither of those components much less both.

My assumption is that McCadden and KK where supposed to be elite level defensive players that could guard multiple positions but they completely lost on the switching defense and alternatively are very limited offensively.

The last two years, there were countless commentators who showed clips of all 5 players moving as a unit on defense, marveling about how everyone intuitively knew where everyone else was and where they had to be.

With Lomax, Dandridge and Jayden hurt, the only players from last year's roster are DW and Lawson, and Lawson barely played. It is an entirely brand new roster. Defensively, I am sure we will improve. Hopefully, Sunday was the start.

I completely agree that we will improve. Improvement throughout the season, especially late in the season, has been very consistent with Penny.

But again, that is my concern. If it takes so long every year to get in a rhythm or to effectively teach the system then how reliable is the system. At the end of the day the goal is winning a title, not just improving and making the tournament. But his system is continually putting them in the 8-9 seed range which makes it incredibly tough to even make the Sweet 16, let alone advance beyond that.

And perhaps I should make a clearer distinction. I do believe that Penny is a very good coach. He has proven year after year that he can effectively improve his team and players. I think he is a good enough coach to bring a title to Memphis. The caveat is the current system he is using. I am not sure that the system (as it stands today) is capable of the same due to the limits of most college athletes and the extremely high roster turnover that is now a part of college basketball at large.

If you took Penny back to when you knew you were going to have your core roster for 3-4 years then and just adding a few high end players to supplement the veteran core then I would be 100% on board but that is just not the modern landscape of college basketball. Even your core guys like Lester, who should be 4 year players without doubt, are leaving early or transferring most of the time...

Exactly what system are you concerned about? Because I cannot figure out your line of concern since this season is so different from past years.

We didn't have early season struggles this year, unlike years past. We are having mid-season struggles coinciding with injuries.

If we see the improvement in this team, that we have in the typical Penny team, we won't be a bubble team by end of year. We will be a 6-ish seed - which is what most people considered the preseason best case for this "low ceiling" team.

I get it. Every year there is an excuse or reason why we are not where we expected come mid to late January. It is COVID, not having a true PG, the NCAA, injuries, etc. Whether we started off slow and progressed or started off well and then regressed we are still in the exact same position. Once again, we are squarely in that last 4 in to first 4 out group. If that is not concerning for you all after 5 years because you can reason it away that is fine. I personally find it concerning that we perpetually find ourselves in the same situation year after year.

We are 5 years in. Call my concerns the system, the roster makeup, consistency or whatever you want but at the end of the day it is rooted in consistently in the same position year after year.

Penny is a great recruiter. I believe Penny can be a great coach. I am in no way advocating for him to be fired now or at the end of the season. I simply stating that something has to change for him to break that cycle and reach the next level.

...................and wait until next year---------always wait until next year------next years recruits are better--- ----and next year this and that............------BB and FB

However I do recall our FB slogan a few years ago (WAIT UNTIL THIS YEAR)--very clever

(01-18-2023 06:07 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 05:50 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 03:28 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 08:47 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 01:47 AM)Stammers Wrote:  The last two years, there were countless commentators who showed clips of all 5 players moving as a unit on defense, marveling about how everyone intuitively knew where everyone else was and where they had to be.

With Lomax, Dandridge and Jayden hurt, the only players from last year's roster are DW and Lawson, and Lawson barely played. It is an entirely brand new roster. Defensively, I am sure we will improve. Hopefully, Sunday was the start.

I completely agree that we will improve. Improvement throughout the season, especially late in the season, has been very consistent with Penny.

But again, that is my concern. If it takes so long every year to get in a rhythm or to effectively teach the system then how reliable is the system. At the end of the day the goal is winning a title, not just improving and making the tournament. But his system is continually putting them in the 8-9 seed range which makes it incredibly tough to even make the Sweet 16, let alone advance beyond that.

And perhaps I should make a clearer distinction. I do believe that Penny is a very good coach. He has proven year after year that he can effectively improve his team and players. I think he is a good enough coach to bring a title to Memphis. The caveat is the current system he is using. I am not sure that the system (as it stands today) is capable of the same due to the limits of most college athletes and the extremely high roster turnover that is now a part of college basketball at large.

If you took Penny back to when you knew you were going to have your core roster for 3-4 years then and just adding a few high end players to supplement the veteran core then I would be 100% on board but that is just not the modern landscape of college basketball. Even your core guys like Lester, who should be 4 year players without doubt, are leaving early or transferring most of the time...

Exactly what system are you concerned about? Because I cannot figure out your line of concern since this season is so different from past years.

We didn't have early season struggles this year, unlike years past. We are having mid-season struggles coinciding with injuries.

If we see the improvement in this team, that we have in the typical Penny team, we won't be a bubble team by end of year. We will be a 6-ish seed - which is what most people considered the preseason best case for this "low ceiling" team.

I get it. Every year there is an excuse or reason why we are not where we expected come mid to late January. It is COVID, not having a true PG, the NCAA, injuries, etc. Whether we started off slow and progressed or started off well and then regressed we are still in the exact same position. Once again, we are squarely in that last 4 in to first 4 out group. If that is not concerning for you all after 5 years because you can reason it away that is fine. I personally find it concerning that we perpetually find ourselves in the same situation year after year.

We are 5 years in. Call my concerns the system, the roster makeup, consistency or whatever you want but at the end of the day it is rooted in consistently in the same position year after year.

Penny is a great recruiter. I believe Penny can be a great coach. I am in no way advocating for him to be fired now or at the end of the season. I simply stating that something has to change for him to break that cycle and reach the next level.

...................and wait until next year---------always wait until next year------next years recruits are better--- ----and next year this and that............------BB and FB

However I do recall our FB slogan a few years ago (WAIT UNTIL THIS YEAR)--very clever

"Your boy is different."

(01-18-2023 06:04 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 05:57 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  All teams deal with setbacks. Injuries, players leaving, COVID - these are not unique to Memphis. And again, we are not discussing a one off year, we are discussing 5 straight years. There is a significant difference.

We've been dealing the Wiseman issue that entire time. You're going to discount the effect that can have on recruiting? I suppose if we were a blue blood it wouldn't matter, but we're not. The injuries wouldn't be so bad if recruiting wasn't hampered by the NCAA challenges. Are you forgetting we had what amounts to a Sweet 16 or better team last year too? Apparently.

Don't take my word for it.

Penny Hardaway: Favorable IARP decision a 'fresh start' for Memphis basketball

Quote:Even though Hardaway avoided a suspension and the Tigers’ postseason opportunity was spared, the past two-plus years were punishment enough.

“Of course it did, for three years it hurt the program, because a lot of things were looming,” he said, confirming rival schools tried to use the investigation against Memphis on the recruiting trail. “Now, there’s no cloud and there’s no other school that can hold that over our heads to another kid.

“It’s a great feeling to know that the guys know we’re going in without any kind of negativity on our backs. That we’re staying together. The new staff is meshing with the guys. It feels like a fresh start.”

We had the number one class in the country two years after Wiseman... He has signed multiple 5* and 4* players (without considering the current verbal/signed recruits). He has brought in multiple top end transfers in that timeframe as well.

Did it hurt recruiting? Possibly. He still has had top 10 classes every year when considering transfers and we are still a bubble team every year.

(01-19-2023 09:08 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 06:04 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 05:57 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  All teams deal with setbacks. Injuries, players leaving, COVID - these are not unique to Memphis. And again, we are not discussing a one off year, we are discussing 5 straight years. There is a significant difference.

We've been dealing the Wiseman issue that entire time. You're going to discount the effect that can have on recruiting? I suppose if we were a blue blood it wouldn't matter, but we're not. The injuries wouldn't be so bad if recruiting wasn't hampered by the NCAA challenges. Are you forgetting we had what amounts to a Sweet 16 or better team last year too? Apparently.

Don't take my word for it.

Penny Hardaway: Favorable IARP decision a 'fresh start' for Memphis basketball

Quote:Even though Hardaway avoided a suspension and the Tigers’ postseason opportunity was spared, the past two-plus years were punishment enough.

“Of course it did, for three years it hurt the program, because a lot of things were looming,” he said, confirming rival schools tried to use the investigation against Memphis on the recruiting trail. “Now, there’s no cloud and there’s no other school that can hold that over our heads to another kid.

“It’s a great feeling to know that the guys know we’re going in without any kind of negativity on our backs. That we’re staying together. The new staff is meshing with the guys. It feels like a fresh start.”

We had the number one class in the country two years after Wiseman... He has signed multiple 5* and 4* players (without considering the current verbal/signed recruits). He has brought in multiple top end transfers in that timeframe as well.

Did it hurt recruiting? Possibly. He still has had top 10 classes every year when considering transfers and we are still a bubble team every year.

Looking at this year's class, I always saw it as a bridge to next year. We will potentially have Dandridge, Kao, Jayden, Kennedy and both Lawsons, back. With what we have signed, that should be pretty solid. We are one or two pickups in the portal away from potentially being very good.

(01-19-2023 09:08 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 06:04 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 05:57 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  All teams deal with setbacks. Injuries, players leaving, COVID - these are not unique to Memphis. And again, we are not discussing a one off year, we are discussing 5 straight years. There is a significant difference.

We've been dealing the Wiseman issue that entire time. You're going to discount the effect that can have on recruiting? I suppose if we were a blue blood it wouldn't matter, but we're not. The injuries wouldn't be so bad if recruiting wasn't hampered by the NCAA challenges. Are you forgetting we had what amounts to a Sweet 16 or better team last year too? Apparently.

Don't take my word for it.

Penny Hardaway: Favorable IARP decision a 'fresh start' for Memphis basketball

Quote:Even though Hardaway avoided a suspension and the Tigers’ postseason opportunity was spared, the past two-plus years were punishment enough.

“Of course it did, for three years it hurt the program, because a lot of things were looming,” he said, confirming rival schools tried to use the investigation against Memphis on the recruiting trail. “Now, there’s no cloud and there’s no other school that can hold that over our heads to another kid.

“It’s a great feeling to know that the guys know we’re going in without any kind of negativity on our backs. That we’re staying together. The new staff is meshing with the guys. It feels like a fresh start.”

We had the number one class in the country two years after Wiseman... He has signed multiple 5* and 4* players (without considering the current verbal/signed recruits). He has brought in multiple top end transfers in that timeframe as well.

Did it hurt recruiting? Possibly. He still has had top 10 classes every year when considering transfers and we are still a bubble team every year.

Just because we are a bubble team right now, doesn't mean we will be at year-end.
I'm reminded of the same thing I said a couple of years ago when folks were worried about Penny's early season recruiting...
Let's see how it plays out before demanding a change.

Tricked again. Thought we had ALo news.

(01-19-2023 10:13 AM)gusrob Wrote:  Tricked again. Thought we had ALo news.

Lomax news is in the press conference video I posted earlier.

(01-19-2023 10:23 AM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 10:13 AM)gusrob Wrote:  Tricked again. Thought we had ALo news.

Lomax news is in the press conference video I posted earlier.

Yeah, I've seen the 1/18 presser......with Penny saying we won't likely see Lomax in the next 2 weeks.

Thanks for sharing the vid for those that haven't seen it.

I'll stay tuned for better info. :)

(01-19-2023 10:03 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 09:08 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 06:04 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 05:57 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  All teams deal with setbacks. Injuries, players leaving, COVID - these are not unique to Memphis. And again, we are not discussing a one off year, we are discussing 5 straight years. There is a significant difference.

We've been dealing the Wiseman issue that entire time. You're going to discount the effect that can have on recruiting? I suppose if we were a blue blood it wouldn't matter, but we're not. The injuries wouldn't be so bad if recruiting wasn't hampered by the NCAA challenges. Are you forgetting we had what amounts to a Sweet 16 or better team last year too? Apparently.

Don't take my word for it.

Penny Hardaway: Favorable IARP decision a 'fresh start' for Memphis basketball

Quote:Even though Hardaway avoided a suspension and the Tigers’ postseason opportunity was spared, the past two-plus years were punishment enough.

“Of course it did, for three years it hurt the program, because a lot of things were looming,” he said, confirming rival schools tried to use the investigation against Memphis on the recruiting trail. “Now, there’s no cloud and there’s no other school that can hold that over our heads to another kid.

“It’s a great feeling to know that the guys know we’re going in without any kind of negativity on our backs. That we’re staying together. The new staff is meshing with the guys. It feels like a fresh start.”

We had the number one class in the country two years after Wiseman... He has signed multiple 5* and 4* players (without considering the current verbal/signed recruits). He has brought in multiple top end transfers in that timeframe as well.

Did it hurt recruiting? Possibly. He still has had top 10 classes every year when considering transfers and we are still a bubble team every year.

Just because we are a bubble team right now, doesn't mean we will be at year-end.
I'm reminded of the same thing I said a couple of years ago when folks were worried about Penny's early season recruiting...
Let's see how it plays out before demanding a change.

I do not blame you if you do not read the whole exchange...

Realistically, we are looking at an 8-9 seed best case, short of winning out (which is not realistic IMO). My original point was that we have been in this same position for more or less 5 years and so I feel like at some point Penny has to adjust something to get out of the purgatory of this seeding and break through to the next level.

I did not bring up recruiting concerns of any kind and certainly in no way was suggesting much less stating Penny should be fired.

The basis of my stance is pretty simple. Penny is a good coach and has the potential to be a great coach. But 5 years in it seems clear that something in his approach, system, whatever needs to change to make that jump because he appears to be stagnating in the good range.

I will contrast that with Pastner where after 4 or 5 years I was all in on JP being fired because it seemed very clear that he did not have the potential to ever break through and reach the next level as a coach. I fully believe Penny does but also believe there is some change that needs to occur for this to happen.

(01-19-2023 11:48 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  The basis of my stance is pretty simple. Penny is a good coach and has the potential to be a great coach. But 5 years in it seems clear that something in his approach, system, whatever needs to change to make that jump because he appears to be stagnating in the good range.

Be patient. We just got out of NCAA purgatory, which assuredly impacted recruiting. Pretty sure that having the right players is more important than any other factor. Cal has made a career of it, wouldn't you say?

(01-19-2023 12:10 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 11:48 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  The basis of my stance is pretty simple. Penny is a good coach and has the potential to be a great coach. But 5 years in it seems clear that something in his approach, system, whatever needs to change to make that jump because he appears to be stagnating in the good range.

Be patient. We just got out of NCAA purgatory, which assuredly impacted recruiting. Pretty sure that having the right players is more important than any other factor. Cal has made a career of it, wouldn't you say?

Right. That doesn't mean Penny (or anyone) shouldn't grow in other parts of coaching, though.

SenorTiger has said he likes Penny and wants to keep Penny.

Not every opinion posted requires a rebuttal.

(01-19-2023 12:19 PM)gusrob Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 12:10 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 11:48 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  The basis of my stance is pretty simple. Penny is a good coach and has the potential to be a great coach. But 5 years in it seems clear that something in his approach, system, whatever needs to change to make that jump because he appears to be stagnating in the good range.

Be patient. We just got out of NCAA purgatory, which assuredly impacted recruiting. Pretty sure that having the right players is more important than any other factor. Cal has made a career of it, wouldn't you say?

Right. That doesn't mean Penny (or anyone) shouldn't grow in other parts of coaching, though.

SenorTiger has said he likes Penny and wants to keep Penny.

Not every opinion posted requires a rebuttal.

We are all allowed to share our opinion. You just shared yours. For your information, the poster happens to be a big fan of Cal. I wanted to make mention that Cal has the reputation of recruiting the top players and just rolling the balls out, and he hasn't been hampered by the same recruiting challenges. We're finally over that hump, and I expect things to look very different in the future, without the cloud hanging over the program.

(01-19-2023 12:31 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 12:19 PM)gusrob Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 12:10 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 11:48 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  The basis of my stance is pretty simple. Penny is a good coach and has the potential to be a great coach. But 5 years in it seems clear that something in his approach, system, whatever needs to change to make that jump because he appears to be stagnating in the good range.

Be patient. We just got out of NCAA purgatory, which assuredly impacted recruiting. Pretty sure that having the right players is more important than any other factor. Cal has made a career of it, wouldn't you say?

Right. That doesn't mean Penny (or anyone) shouldn't grow in other parts of coaching, though.

SenorTiger has said he likes Penny and wants to keep Penny.

Not every opinion posted requires a rebuttal.

We are all allowed to share our opinion. You just shared yours. For your information, the poster happens to be a big fan of Cal. I wanted to make mention that Cal has the reputation of recruiting the top players and just rolling the balls out, and he hasn't been hampered by the same recruiting challenges. We're finally over that hump, and I expect things to look very different in the future, without the cloud hanging over the program.

I am a big Cal fan?

Between your weird diatribe about me and exes and now Cal, I am amazed how you keep providing me insight about myself I never had...

Please tell me more about me...

(01-19-2023 01:06 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  I am a big Cal fan?

Looked that way to me.

(01-17-2023 01:36 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 12:11 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-12-2023 09:23 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Not worked out at Kentucky? He is 375-107 at Kentucky
- 1 Sweet 16
- 3 Elite 8
- 2 Final Four
- 1 Championship loss
- 1 National Championship

Sign me up for that kind of not being able to make it...

We did sign up. Had to vacate our 38 win season and National Championship game as a result. KY can keep him.

Ya, I recall how much the fanbase hated that timeframe... The most boring period of Memphis basketball. They can take the banner but they cannot take what all of witnessed and experienced. I would trade the excitement surrounding that time period, even knowing it would be vacated, for the decade that followed. At least we had something for the NCAA to strip away from us...

(01-19-2023 01:06 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Between your weird diatribe about me and exes and now Cal, I am amazed how you keep providing me insight about myself I never had...

Please tell me more about me...

For one thing you apparently don't understand what analogies are, if you think it had anything to do about your exes. So are you saying you're merely playing stupid?

(01-19-2023 01:06 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 12:31 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 12:19 PM)gusrob Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 12:10 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 11:48 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  The basis of my stance is pretty simple. Penny is a good coach and has the potential to be a great coach. But 5 years in it seems clear that something in his approach, system, whatever needs to change to make that jump because he appears to be stagnating in the good range.

Be patient. We just got out of NCAA purgatory, which assuredly impacted recruiting. Pretty sure that having the right players is more important than any other factor. Cal has made a career of it, wouldn't you say?

Right. That doesn't mean Penny (or anyone) shouldn't grow in other parts of coaching, though.

SenorTiger has said he likes Penny and wants to keep Penny.

Not every opinion posted requires a rebuttal.

We are all allowed to share our opinion. You just shared yours. For your information, the poster happens to be a big fan of Cal. I wanted to make mention that Cal has the reputation of recruiting the top players and just rolling the balls out, and he hasn't been hampered by the same recruiting challenges. We're finally over that hump, and I expect things to look very different in the future, without the cloud hanging over the program.

I am a big Cal fan?

Between your weird diatribe about me and exes and now Cal, I am amazed how you keep providing me insight about myself I never had...

Please tell me more about me...

Looks like the infinite wisdom of MSU35 has been bestowed on yet another poster, consider yourself privileged! Replies countless times each and every day on every thread topic, by saying so much in every post yet so little contextually. It's rather comical at this point as many continue to see through this charade.

Watch out though, the unsolicited private messages you will be subjected to can be tough!

(01-19-2023 01:37 PM)Unbreakable04 Wrote:  Looks like the infinite wisdom of MSU35 has been bestowed on yet another poster, consider yourself privileged! Replies countless times each and every day on every thread topic, by saying so much in every post yet so little contextually. It's rather comical at this point as many continue to see through this charade.

Watch out though, the unsolicited private messages you will be subjected to can be tough!

What's comical is reading your feedback. Unbreakable? Ha ha ha! Keep on trolling, it's what you do.

(01-19-2023 01:14 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-19-2023 01:06 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  I am a big Cal fan?

Looked that way to me.

(01-17-2023 01:36 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 12:11 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-12-2023 09:23 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Not worked out at Kentucky? He is 375-107 at Kentucky
- 1 Sweet 16
- 3 Elite 8
- 2 Final Four
- 1 Championship loss
- 1 National Championship

Sign me up for that kind of not being able to make it...

We did sign up. Had to vacate our 38 win season and National Championship game as a result. KY can keep him.

Ya, I recall how much the fanbase hated that timeframe... The most boring period of Memphis basketball. They can take the banner but they cannot take what all of witnessed and experienced. I would trade the excitement surrounding that time period, even knowing it would be vacated, for the decade that followed. At least we had something for the NCAA to strip away from us...

(01-19-2023 01:06 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Between your weird diatribe about me and exes and now Cal, I am amazed how you keep providing me insight about myself I never had...

Please tell me more about me...

For one thing you apparently don't understand what analogies are, if you think it had anything to do about your exes. So are you saying you're merely playing stupid?

If I say "yes" will you decide you are too intellectually superior to respond to someone at my level?

(01-19-2023 05:38 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  If I say "yes" will you decide you are too intellectually superior to respond to someone at my level?

I get the sarcasm, and we all know you're not stupid, so stop pretending that you don't understand an analogy.