The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(11-30-2022 08:40 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 08:37 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 07:18 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 04:14 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 04:04 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  Capel had 2 NCAA Tournament teams in 8 years, including perhaps the most notable NCAA win in program history. He recruited studs including a first round NBA draft pick.

JJ???

Best check those stats again.

I lived through it going to school with his son. He did have 1 NCAA victory with inherited players and deserves some credit for that. But, we were barely .500 with him. Almost half of his seasons, we were under .500.

I can’t believe anyone would try to argue that Jones was nearly as successful as Capel. Capel not only coached the best NCAA victory we ever had but he did it in a year that our best player ( Hodge) went out for the season with an injury. Capel also had perhaps the best recruiting class we ever had even though he lost the best recruit ( Benson) that year before he could ever suit up ( due to a health issue). He also recruited a three point shooter ( Poag) that he actually let play and maybe his defense was a little suspect. Give me Capel’s record for the next 8 seasons, please. Maybe the fan base will get excited again.

That was 1 year and while he should get some credit, he was handed one of the best teams we have ever had.

As much as it stinks, that recruiting class never lived up to the billing except for their senior years.

18-13
22-11
12-16
25-9

One NCAA and one NIT over 4 seasons. I’d love that kind of percentage now.

Absolutely!

(11-30-2022 09:29 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 08:40 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 08:37 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 07:18 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 04:14 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  I lived through it going to school with his son. He did have 1 NCAA victory with inherited players and deserves some credit for that. But, we were barely .500 with him. Almost half of his seasons, we were under .500.

I can’t believe anyone would try to argue that Jones was nearly as successful as Capel. Capel not only coached the best NCAA victory we ever had but he did it in a year that our best player ( Hodge) went out for the season with an injury. Capel also had perhaps the best recruiting class we ever had even though he lost the best recruit ( Benson) that year before he could ever suit up ( due to a health issue). He also recruited a three point shooter ( Poag) that he actually let play and maybe his defense was a little suspect. Give me Capel’s record for the next 8 seasons, please. Maybe the fan base will get excited again.

That was 1 year and while he should get some credit, he was handed one of the best teams we have ever had.

As much as it stinks, that recruiting class never lived up to the billing except for their senior years.

18-13
22-11
12-16
25-9

One NCAA and one NIT over 4 seasons. I’d love that kind of percentage now.

Absolutely!

Man, I remember when we played Seton Hall at the Fieldhouse in the N.I.T. They were coached by Tommy Amaker . We crushed them in a blowout, 70 something to 40 something as I recall. A dunk fest.

(12-01-2022 07:16 AM)mac Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 09:29 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 08:40 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 08:37 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 07:18 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  I can’t believe anyone would try to argue that Jones was nearly as successful as Capel. Capel not only coached the best NCAA victory we ever had but he did it in a year that our best player ( Hodge) went out for the season with an injury. Capel also had perhaps the best recruiting class we ever had even though he lost the best recruit ( Benson) that year before he could ever suit up ( due to a health issue). He also recruited a three point shooter ( Poag) that he actually let play and maybe his defense was a little suspect. Give me Capel’s record for the next 8 seasons, please. Maybe the fan base will get excited again.

That was 1 year and while he should get some credit, he was handed one of the best teams we have ever had.

As much as it stinks, that recruiting class never lived up to the billing except for their senior years.

18-13
22-11
12-16
25-9

One NCAA and one NIT over 4 seasons. I’d love that kind of percentage now.

Absolutely!

Man, I remember when we played Seton Hall at the Fieldhouse in the N.I.T. They were coached by Tommy Amaker . We crushed them in a blowout, 70 something to 40 something as I recall. A dunk fest.

I remember this game like it was last night.

(12-01-2022 07:16 AM)mac Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 09:29 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 08:40 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 08:37 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 07:18 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  I can’t believe anyone would try to argue that Jones was nearly as successful as Capel. Capel not only coached the best NCAA victory we ever had but he did it in a year that our best player ( Hodge) went out for the season with an injury. Capel also had perhaps the best recruiting class we ever had even though he lost the best recruit ( Benson) that year before he could ever suit up ( due to a health issue). He also recruited a three point shooter ( Poag) that he actually let play and maybe his defense was a little suspect. Give me Capel’s record for the next 8 seasons, please. Maybe the fan base will get excited again.

That was 1 year and while he should get some credit, he was handed one of the best teams we have ever had.

As much as it stinks, that recruiting class never lived up to the billing except for their senior years.

18-13
22-11
12-16
25-9

One NCAA and one NIT over 4 seasons. I’d love that kind of percentage now.

Absolutely!

Man, I remember when we played Seton Hall at the Fieldhouse in the N.I.T. They were coached by Tommy Amaker . We crushed them in a blowout, 70 something to 40 something as I recall. A dunk fest.

I was there for that game too Mac. We had lots of great ODU games by both the men's and women's teams during those years at the field house. The teams and the atmosphere are both a far cry from how things are today.

(11-30-2022 03:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 01:18 PM)757ODU Wrote:  Everyone is acting like the athletic department is not aware of the results. If the basketball team has a bad year this year, changes will be made. If not, then he will ride out his contract and determine what happens after that.

That is because the athletic department is acting like they aren't aware of the results. There is absolutely no reason that JJ should be our coach after last year, and people within the athletic department know that, but the people pulling the strings refuse to make the appropriate moves.

You are failing to take into account the fact that the buyout is involved here. I understand what you are saying from a win/loss perspective, and I totally agree with you. It does not change the fact that keeping him for one more year with better assistants was the right idea financially.

(12-01-2022 10:08 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 03:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 01:18 PM)757ODU Wrote:  Everyone is acting like the athletic department is not aware of the results. If the basketball team has a bad year this year, changes will be made. If not, then he will ride out his contract and determine what happens after that.

That is because the athletic department is acting like they aren't aware of the results. There is absolutely no reason that JJ should be our coach after last year, and people within the athletic department know that, but the people pulling the strings refuse to make the appropriate moves.

You are failing to take into account the fact that the buyout is involved here. I understand what you are saying from a win/loss perspective, and I totally agree with you. It does not change the fact that keeping him for one more year with better assistants was the right idea financially.

Maybe so, but the alternative is every year that we accept mediocrity the fan base continues to dwindle, recruiting gets tougher, ticket sales slow, and future donors (students) do not experience a program that they identify with, which kneecaps the program in years to come. In my mind there is a balance to be considered.

I'd be interested to see just how many ODAF new members we are getting from recent graduates and how that number compares to years past. I would bet that number is trending sharply downward.

(12-01-2022 10:24 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 10:08 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 03:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 01:18 PM)757ODU Wrote:  Everyone is acting like the athletic department is not aware of the results. If the basketball team has a bad year this year, changes will be made. If not, then he will ride out his contract and determine what happens after that.

That is because the athletic department is acting like they aren't aware of the results. There is absolutely no reason that JJ should be our coach after last year, and people within the athletic department know that, but the people pulling the strings refuse to make the appropriate moves.

You are failing to take into account the fact that the buyout is involved here. I understand what you are saying from a win/loss perspective, and I totally agree with you. It does not change the fact that keeping him for one more year with better assistants was the right idea financially.

Maybe so, but the alternative is every year that we accept mediocrity the fan base continues to dwindle, recruiting gets tougher, ticket sales slow, and future donors (students) do not experience a program that they identify with, which kneecaps the program in years to come. In my mind there is a balance to be considered.

I'd be interested to see just how many ODAF new members we are getting from recent graduates and how that number compares to years past. I would bet that number is trending sharply downward.

I get all of this, but for now, the focus has to be the immediate budget.

(12-01-2022 10:08 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 03:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 01:18 PM)757ODU Wrote:  Everyone is acting like the athletic department is not aware of the results. If the basketball team has a bad year this year, changes will be made. If not, then he will ride out his contract and determine what happens after that.

That is because the athletic department is acting like they aren't aware of the results. There is absolutely no reason that JJ should be our coach after last year, and people within the athletic department know that, but the people pulling the strings refuse to make the appropriate moves.

You are failing to take into account the fact that the buyout is involved here. I understand what you are saying from a win/loss perspective, and I totally agree with you. It does not change the fact that keeping him for one more year with better assistants was the right idea financially.

Was it the right move? We saved $350K. What is the opportunity cost? If this department can't come up with an extra 350K, that usually is negotiated to be paid over some period of time, to get one of the two sports that matter financially on the right track, we need to have a lot of discussions about the state of the athletic program that go well beyond the fact that Football and Basketball are underperforming.

Meanwhile, the AD is having no problem raising $20M for a baseball stadium. I mention this not to say that we don't need a baseball stadium, but to demonstrate that raising $350K seems pretty manageable to get your basketball program back on track.

Just some stat mining that I just did because I felt like 3-pt shooting is killing us (net off/def). My feelings were verified.

2019-20
Offense 29.3% 184 made
Defense 33.8% 266 made

2020-21
Offense 28.8% 113 made
Defense 35.2% 196 made

2021-22
Offense 29.4% 141 made
Defense 34.1% 279 made

2022-23 thru Charleston
Offense 33.3% 35 made
Defense 33.0% 64 made

So in a little over 3 years, we have made 332 less 3-pointers thus outscored by 996 points from beyond the arc.

My thinking here is that it seems that emphasis on defense with perimeter players is not panning out.

(12-01-2022 02:27 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 10:08 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 03:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 01:18 PM)757ODU Wrote:  Everyone is acting like the athletic department is not aware of the results. If the basketball team has a bad year this year, changes will be made. If not, then he will ride out his contract and determine what happens after that.

That is because the athletic department is acting like they aren't aware of the results. There is absolutely no reason that JJ should be our coach after last year, and people within the athletic department know that, but the people pulling the strings refuse to make the appropriate moves.

You are failing to take into account the fact that the buyout is involved here. I understand what you are saying from a win/loss perspective, and I totally agree with you. It does not change the fact that keeping him for one more year with better assistants was the right idea financially.

Was it the right move? We saved $350K. What is the opportunity cost? If this department can't come up with an extra 350K, that usually is negotiated to be paid over some period of time, to get one of the two sports that matter financially on the right track, we need to have a lot of discussions about the state of the athletic program that go well beyond the fact that Football and Basketball are underperforming.

Meanwhile, the AD is having no problem raising $20M for a baseball stadium. I mention this not to say that we don't need a baseball stadium, but to demonstrate that raising $350K seems pretty manageable to get your basketball program back on track.

All of what you're saying makes sense, but I am not speaking from what I believe should've happened, I am speaking from what I believe the athletic officers are thinking.

(12-01-2022 02:57 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 02:27 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 10:08 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 03:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 01:18 PM)757ODU Wrote:  Everyone is acting like the athletic department is not aware of the results. If the basketball team has a bad year this year, changes will be made. If not, then he will ride out his contract and determine what happens after that.

That is because the athletic department is acting like they aren't aware of the results. There is absolutely no reason that JJ should be our coach after last year, and people within the athletic department know that, but the people pulling the strings refuse to make the appropriate moves.

You are failing to take into account the fact that the buyout is involved here. I understand what you are saying from a win/loss perspective, and I totally agree with you. It does not change the fact that keeping him for one more year with better assistants was the right idea financially.

Was it the right move? We saved $350K. What is the opportunity cost? If this department can't come up with an extra 350K, that usually is negotiated to be paid over some period of time, to get one of the two sports that matter financially on the right track, we need to have a lot of discussions about the state of the athletic program that go well beyond the fact that Football and Basketball are underperforming.

Meanwhile, the AD is having no problem raising $20M for a baseball stadium. I mention this not to say that we don't need a baseball stadium, but to demonstrate that raising $350K seems pretty manageable to get your basketball program back on track.

All of what you're saying makes sense, but I am not speaking from what I believe should've happened, I am speaking from what I believe the athletic officers are thinking.

And I am questioning the foresight and logic....we can all see the opportunity cost here. Why are they struggling with the concept? What else is at play here that we are not seeing?

EDIT - I am not suggesting you have the answer...just asking for discussion sake.

(12-01-2022 02:55 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  Just some stat mining that I just did because I felt like 3-pt shooting is killing us (net off/def). My feelings were verified.

2019-20
Offense 29.3% 184 made
Defense 33.8% 266 made

2020-21
Offense 28.8% 113 made
Defense 35.2% 196 made

2021-22
Offense 29.4% 141 made
Defense 34.1% 279 made

2022-23 thru Charleston
Offense 33.3% 35 made
Defense 33.0% 64 made

So in a little over 3 years, we have made 332 less 3-pointers thus outscored by 996 points from beyond the arc.

My thinking here is that it seems that emphasis on defense with perimeter players is not panning out.

We do shoot enough threes and we don't shoot them well enough. It's the modern game. Based on these numbers (without doing any actual math), we're probably getting outscored by close to 9 points per game from beyond the arc. That's tough to overcome.

(12-01-2022 02:55 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  Just some stat mining that I just did because I felt like 3-pt shooting is killing us (net off/def). My feelings were verified.

2019-20
Offense 29.3% 184 made
Defense 33.8% 266 made

2020-21
Offense 28.8% 113 made
Defense 35.2% 196 made

2021-22
Offense 29.4% 141 made
Defense 34.1% 279 made

2022-23 thru Charleston
Offense 33.3% 35 made
Defense 33.0% 64 made

So in a little over 3 years, we have made 332 less 3-pointers thus outscored by 996 points from beyond the arc.

My thinking here is that it seems that emphasis on defense with perimeter players is not panning out.

Your stats show what I have been saying for years. Jeff is a Packed-in Defensive coach 1st, and an Inside scoring & Rebounding coach on the offensive end 2nd. Any coach that valued the 3-point shot and put emphasis on it offensively would not be outscored by an average of 103 three-point shots per year over the last 3 seasons. Coaching wise, he is who he is.

I get the feeling that he wants to change, but he's just having a really hard time doing it. I say that because he has gotten away from his limited 6-7 man rotation this season, and he has pressed defensively a little bit when he really didn't have to which is different for him. Still, it seems that he is mainly falling back into his comfort zone for the most part. I guess it's true what they say about teaching an old dog new tricks, or a leopard changing its spots.

Hopefully, our next coach will be all in on pressure defense, 3-point shooting/scoring, and fast paced offense. Maybe we can pick someone off the VCU coaching tree - or some other school that plays that style.

(12-01-2022 05:01 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 02:55 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  Just some stat mining that I just did because I felt like 3-pt shooting is killing us (net off/def). My feelings were verified.

2019-20
Offense 29.3% 184 made
Defense 33.8% 266 made

2020-21
Offense 28.8% 113 made
Defense 35.2% 196 made

2021-22
Offense 29.4% 141 made
Defense 34.1% 279 made

2022-23 thru Charleston
Offense 33.3% 35 made
Defense 33.0% 64 made

So in a little over 3 years, we have made 332 less 3-pointers thus outscored by 996 points from beyond the arc.

My thinking here is that it seems that emphasis on defense with perimeter players is not panning out.

Your stats show what I have been saying for years. Jeff is a Packed-in Defensive coach 1st, and an Inside scoring & Rebounding coach on the offensive end 2nd. Any coach that valued the 3-point shot and put emphasis on it offensively would not be outscored by an average of 103 three-point shots per year over the last 3 seasons. Coaching wise, he is who he is.

I get the feeling that he wants to change, but he's just having a really hard time doing it. I say that because he has gotten away from his limited 6-7 man rotation this season, and he has pressed defensively a little bit when he really didn't have to which is different for him. Still, it seems that he is mainly falling back into his comfort zone for the most part. I guess it's true what they say about teaching an old dog new tricks, or a leopard changing its spots.

Hopefully, our next coach will be all in on pressure defense, 3-point shooting/scoring, and fast paced offense. Maybe we can pick someone off the VCU coaching tree - or some other school that plays that style.

It's not just Jones. BT and Capel had the same mindset. I can remember Poag getting his playing time limited because of his defense. I remember thinking that his shooting can offset/overcome that. But that isn't the way coaches think. I think it was the kid from UNCW (I can't think of his name at the moment but would know it if you said it) that lit us up when I first started hearing about limiting a good shooter's PT if the defense wasn't good enough.

We have been shooting 3s fairly decent this year, just not enough of them. Thats different than years past when we coudn't make them. They know they need to shoot more of them. Hopefully that happens (listen to the Monarchists podcast)

(12-01-2022 05:01 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 02:55 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  Just some stat mining that I just did because I felt like 3-pt shooting is killing us (net off/def). My feelings were verified.

2019-20
Offense 29.3% 184 made
Defense 33.8% 266 made

2020-21
Offense 28.8% 113 made
Defense 35.2% 196 made

2021-22
Offense 29.4% 141 made
Defense 34.1% 279 made

2022-23 thru Charleston
Offense 33.3% 35 made
Defense 33.0% 64 made

So in a little over 3 years, we have made 332 less 3-pointers thus outscored by 996 points from beyond the arc.

My thinking here is that it seems that emphasis on defense with perimeter players is not panning out.

Your stats show what I have been saying for years. Jeff is a Packed-in Defensive coach 1st, and an Inside scoring & Rebounding coach on the offensive end 2nd. Any coach that valued the 3-point shot and put emphasis on it offensively would not be outscored by an average of 103 three-point shots per year over the last 3 seasons. Coaching wise, he is who he is.

I get the feeling that he wants to change, but he's just having a really hard time doing it. I say that because he has gotten away from his limited 6-7 man rotation this season, and he has pressed defensively a little bit when he really didn't have to which is different for him. Still, it seems that he is mainly falling back into his comfort zone for the most part. I guess it's true what they say about teaching an old dog new tricks, or a leopard changing its spots.

Hopefully, our next coach will be all in on pressure defense, 3-point shooting/scoring, and fast paced offense. Maybe we can pick someone off the VCU coaching tree - or some other school that plays that style.

Exactly right. C of C was 10/25 from three and we were 5/11. We had a better % but were out scored by 15 from three. We lost by 16? If we had taken 25 threes in that game Jones would have had a heart attack.

(12-01-2022 05:28 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 05:01 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 02:55 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  Just some stat mining that I just did because I felt like 3-pt shooting is killing us (net off/def). My feelings were verified.

2019-20
Offense 29.3% 184 made
Defense 33.8% 266 made

2020-21
Offense 28.8% 113 made
Defense 35.2% 196 made

2021-22
Offense 29.4% 141 made
Defense 34.1% 279 made

2022-23 thru Charleston
Offense 33.3% 35 made
Defense 33.0% 64 made

So in a little over 3 years, we have made 332 less 3-pointers thus outscored by 996 points from beyond the arc.

My thinking here is that it seems that emphasis on defense with perimeter players is not panning out.

Your stats show what I have been saying for years. Jeff is a Packed-in Defensive coach 1st, and an Inside scoring & Rebounding coach on the offensive end 2nd. Any coach that valued the 3-point shot and put emphasis on it offensively would not be outscored by an average of 103 three-point shots per year over the last 3 seasons. Coaching wise, he is who he is.

I get the feeling that he wants to change, but he's just having a really hard time doing it. I say that because he has gotten away from his limited 6-7 man rotation this season, and he has pressed defensively a little bit when he really didn't have to which is different for him. Still, it seems that he is mainly falling back into his comfort zone for the most part. I guess it's true what they say about teaching an old dog new tricks, or a leopard changing its spots.

Hopefully, our next coach will be all in on pressure defense, 3-point shooting/scoring, and fast paced offense. Maybe we can pick someone off the VCU coaching tree - or some other school that plays that style.

It's not just Jones. BT and Capel had the same mindset. I can remember Poag getting his playing time limited because of his defense. I remember thinking that his shooting can offset/overcome that. But that isn't the way coaches think. I think it was the kid from UNCW (I can't think of his name at the moment but would know it if you said it) that lit us up when I first started hearing about limiting a good shooter's PT if the defense wasn't good enough.

Brett Blizzard?

(12-01-2022 05:44 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 05:28 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 05:01 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 02:55 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  Just some stat mining that I just did because I felt like 3-pt shooting is killing us (net off/def). My feelings were verified.

2019-20
Offense 29.3% 184 made
Defense 33.8% 266 made

2020-21
Offense 28.8% 113 made
Defense 35.2% 196 made

2021-22
Offense 29.4% 141 made
Defense 34.1% 279 made

2022-23 thru Charleston
Offense 33.3% 35 made
Defense 33.0% 64 made

So in a little over 3 years, we have made 332 less 3-pointers thus outscored by 996 points from beyond the arc.

My thinking here is that it seems that emphasis on defense with perimeter players is not panning out.

Your stats show what I have been saying for years. Jeff is a Packed-in Defensive coach 1st, and an Inside scoring & Rebounding coach on the offensive end 2nd. Any coach that valued the 3-point shot and put emphasis on it offensively would not be outscored by an average of 103 three-point shots per year over the last 3 seasons. Coaching wise, he is who he is.

I get the feeling that he wants to change, but he's just having a really hard time doing it. I say that because he has gotten away from his limited 6-7 man rotation this season, and he has pressed defensively a little bit when he really didn't have to which is different for him. Still, it seems that he is mainly falling back into his comfort zone for the most part. I guess it's true what they say about teaching an old dog new tricks, or a leopard changing its spots.

Hopefully, our next coach will be all in on pressure defense, 3-point shooting/scoring, and fast paced offense. Maybe we can pick someone off the VCU coaching tree - or some other school that plays that style.

It's not just Jones. BT and Capel had the same mindset. I can remember Poag getting his playing time limited because of his defense. I remember thinking that his shooting can offset/overcome that. But that isn't the way coaches think. I think it was the kid from UNCW (I can't think of his name at the moment but would know it if you said it) that lit us up when I first started hearing about limiting a good shooter's PT if the defense wasn't good enough.

Brett Blizzard?

Wasn't him. Good guess though. Was another kid. Russell or something?

Edit: You made me look it up. It was Stan Simmons

(12-01-2022 05:33 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 05:01 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 02:55 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  Just some stat mining that I just did because I felt like 3-pt shooting is killing us (net off/def). My feelings were verified.

2019-20
Offense 29.3% 184 made
Defense 33.8% 266 made

2020-21
Offense 28.8% 113 made
Defense 35.2% 196 made

2021-22
Offense 29.4% 141 made
Defense 34.1% 279 made

2022-23 thru Charleston
Offense 33.3% 35 made
Defense 33.0% 64 made

So in a little over 3 years, we have made 332 less 3-pointers thus outscored by 996 points from beyond the arc.

My thinking here is that it seems that emphasis on defense with perimeter players is not panning out.

Your stats show what I have been saying for years. Jeff is a Packed-in Defensive coach 1st, and an Inside scoring & Rebounding coach on the offensive end 2nd. Any coach that valued the 3-point shot and put emphasis on it offensively would not be outscored by an average of 103 three-point shots per year over the last 3 seasons. Coaching wise, he is who he is.

I get the feeling that he wants to change, but he's just having a really hard time doing it. I say that because he has gotten away from his limited 6-7 man rotation this season, and he has pressed defensively a little bit when he really didn't have to which is different for him. Still, it seems that he is mainly falling back into his comfort zone for the most part. I guess it's true what they say about teaching an old dog new tricks, or a leopard changing its spots.

Hopefully, our next coach will be all in on pressure defense, 3-point shooting/scoring, and fast paced offense. Maybe we can pick someone off the VCU coaching tree - or some other school that plays that style.

Exactly right. C of C was 10/25 from three and we were 5/11. We had a better % but were out scored by 15 from three. We lost by 16? If we had taken 25 threes in that game Jones would have had a heart attack.

The funny thing is its not true. Listen to the podcast. Jones actually wants them to shoot more 3s. He's been getting on them for passing up 3s and getting on them when they pass up 3s to take long jumpers.

We need to make take (make) more 3s. But, we need to do a better job of making layups. Especially our bigs.

We are only shooting 58% at the rim. (Dericho only 52%)

(12-01-2022 08:27 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 05:33 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 05:01 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 02:55 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  Just some stat mining that I just did because I felt like 3-pt shooting is killing us (net off/def). My feelings were verified.

2019-20
Offense 29.3% 184 made
Defense 33.8% 266 made

2020-21
Offense 28.8% 113 made
Defense 35.2% 196 made

2021-22
Offense 29.4% 141 made
Defense 34.1% 279 made

2022-23 thru Charleston
Offense 33.3% 35 made
Defense 33.0% 64 made

So in a little over 3 years, we have made 332 less 3-pointers thus outscored by 996 points from beyond the arc.

My thinking here is that it seems that emphasis on defense with perimeter players is not panning out.

Your stats show what I have been saying for years. Jeff is a Packed-in Defensive coach 1st, and an Inside scoring & Rebounding coach on the offensive end 2nd. Any coach that valued the 3-point shot and put emphasis on it offensively would not be outscored by an average of 103 three-point shots per year over the last 3 seasons. Coaching wise, he is who he is.

I get the feeling that he wants to change, but he's just having a really hard time doing it. I say that because he has gotten away from his limited 6-7 man rotation this season, and he has pressed defensively a little bit when he really didn't have to which is different for him. Still, it seems that he is mainly falling back into his comfort zone for the most part. I guess it's true what they say about teaching an old dog new tricks, or a leopard changing its spots.

Hopefully, our next coach will be all in on pressure defense, 3-point shooting/scoring, and fast paced offense. Maybe we can pick someone off the VCU coaching tree - or some other school that plays that style.

Exactly right. C of C was 10/25 from three and we were 5/11. We had a better % but were out scored by 15 from three. We lost by 16? If we had taken 25 threes in that game Jones would have had a heart attack.

The funny thing is its not true. Listen to the podcast. Jones actually wants them to shoot more 3s. He's been getting on them for passing up 3s and getting on them when they pass up 3s to take long jumpers.

We need to make take (make) more 3s. But, we need to do a better job of making layups. Especially our bigs.

We are only shooting 58% at the rim. (Dericho only 52%)

Jeff's right to say that. They SHOULD shoot more 3-point shots, but only if they can get up to 39-40% as a team in making them. Otherwise, hitting 58% of 2-point conversions will score more points per possession than hitting 33% of their 3-point conversions.

Currently they have 4 players that are exceeding the 40% mark - Smith (.438), Imo (.462), Long (.462), and Jenkins (.500). If those players (and any of the others like Baker who haven't played much) are able to sustain shooting 40% or better, then they should shoot more of them - as long as they are open shots.

Stanley (.167 - 2/12 shots), Stines (.000 - 0/8 shots) and Scott-Grayson (.208 - 5/24 shots) are currently dragging down the team's percentage from behind the arc. Take away those 7/44 shots and the team is shooting 28/61 (.459) from behind the arc.