(07-07-2022 11:36 AM)utxctrack Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 11:17 AM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  Part II of the article is worse than part I.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/j...t-part-two

Based on this info, Andrews needs to be fired, now, along with anyone else who was part of the so-called "investigation" at the time and is still on staff.

This is so sad. I have seen so many reports of other Universities tolerating or even defending abusive coaches, like the recent one at Fordham where their 600+ win WBB coach was finally forced out after revelations about her abusive treatment of the players came out. And I always though to myself, it's refreshing that UT doesn't have those issues. And now this. This is awful. This could gut the athletic program. I just can't understand how anyone could defend people like him.

TJ Buchholtz needs to be given a raise and a medal for bringing this to light.

I wouldn’t be so quick to give TJ the keys to the city. Although he did the right thing, I’m sure there was some benefit to him. He then can forever claim whistleblower status and save his job. Im happy he did. But let’s not pretend there wasn’t some self-serving interest either.

Wouldn't we'd be just as wrong to presume? That mindset seems to say that ANYONE that reports a crime is self-serving. There is a process to crime and punishment. Let's hope this time it actually plays out as it was supposed to.

But all that happens is system resets and it happens again and again as soon as no one is looking. There still has to be a safe reporting system in-place AND instilled. Even if that means training scenarios for sports administration AND sports participants.

Look, the system failed here. I'm not just referring to UToledo but also local sports journalism. It failed. If it does not look at itself and even in retrospect consider should it have done something differently, then the needed checks-and-balances are not in-place to inhibit problems in the future. See you again in ten years.

(07-07-2022 03:45 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 11:36 AM)utxctrack Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 11:17 AM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  Part II of the article is worse than part I.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/j...t-part-two

Based on this info, Andrews needs to be fired, now, along with anyone else who was part of the so-called "investigation" at the time and is still on staff.

This is so sad. I have seen so many reports of other Universities tolerating or even defending abusive coaches, like the recent one at Fordham where their 600+ win WBB coach was finally forced out after revelations about her abusive treatment of the players came out. And I always though to myself, it's refreshing that UT doesn't have those issues. And now this. This is awful. This could gut the athletic program. I just can't understand how anyone could defend people like him.

TJ Buchholtz needs to be given a raise and a medal for bringing this to light.

I wouldn’t be so quick to give TJ the keys to the city. Although he did the right thing, I’m sure there was some benefit to him. He then can forever claim whistleblower status and save his job. Im happy he did. But let’s not pretend there wasn’t some self-serving interest either.

Wouldn't we'd be just as wrong to presume? That mindset seems to say that ANYONE that reports a crime is self-serving. There is a process to crime and punishment. Let's hope this time it actually plays out as it was supposed to.

But all that happens is system resets and it happens again and again as soon as no one is looking. There still has to be a safe reporting system in-place AND instilled. Even if that means training scenarios for sports administration AND sports participants.

Look, the system failed here. I'm not just referring to UToledo but also local sports journalism. It failed. If it does not look at itself and even in retrospect consider should it have done something differently, then the needed checks-and-balances are not in-place to inhibit problems in the future. See you again in ten years.

This is one that gets me too...how in the hell does the local paper not get word of this (or worse, get word and not run with it) and how do they get scooped by a paper based in friggin London, UK?!

(07-07-2022 04:02 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 03:45 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  But all that happens is system resets and it happens again and again as soon as no one is looking. There still has to be a safe reporting system in-place AND instilled. Even if that means training scenarios for sports administration AND sports participants.

Look, the system failed here. I'm not just referring to UToledo but also local sports journalism. It failed. If it does not look at itself and even in retrospect consider should it have done something differently, then the needed checks-and-balances are not in-place to inhibit problems in the future. See you again in ten years.

This is one that gets me too...how in the hell does the local paper not get word of this (or worse, get word and not run with it) and how do they get scooped by a paper based in friggin London, UK?!

There's more than one news source here. Duh'local is an easy focus cuz no one likes the boss. What about the others?

Everyone sooner or later misses opportunity or just misses the trees for the forest. Giving benefit of the doubt that's alll this was it's still "failure." I think I'd like to see local journalism address it publically. Step through their process and discuss are they dropping responsibility for oversight and just printing what is brought into their door by interested parties looking for promotion? What comes conveniently?

Did they perform due dilligence 7-10 years ago and still miss the story? Do they even have a due dilligence? This is an opportunity for local journalism to connect with the public, show they have purpose.

(07-08-2022 07:09 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 04:02 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 03:45 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  But all that happens is system resets and it happens again and again as soon as no one is looking. There still has to be a safe reporting system in-place AND instilled. Even if that means training scenarios for sports administration AND sports participants.

Look, the system failed here. I'm not just referring to UToledo but also local sports journalism. It failed. If it does not look at itself and even in retrospect consider should it have done something differently, then the needed checks-and-balances are not in-place to inhibit problems in the future. See you again in ten years.

This is one that gets me too...how in the hell does the local paper not get word of this (or worse, get word and not run with it) and how do they get scooped by a paper based in friggin London, UK?!

There's more than one news source here. Duh'local is an easy focus cuz no one likes the boss. What about the others?

Everyone sooner or later misses opportunity or just misses the trees for the forest. Giving benefit of the doubt that's alll this was it's still "failure." I think I'd like to see local journalism address it publically. Step through their process and discuss are they dropping responsibility for oversight and just printing what is brought into their door by interested parties looking for promotion? What comes conveniently?

Did they perform due dilligence 7-10 years ago and still miss the story? Do they even have a due dilligence? This is an opportunity for local journalism to connect with the public, show they have purpose.

Agreed, it was a complete failure by all local news media. There is no way that no one got wind of any of this over a decade and a half.

Gross. Men probably shouldn't be coaching women's sports. I knew of a high school AD who came in new to the school and specifically told me how the softball program needed a coaching change since it was all men holding the coaching spots. It's also creepy to me that UT's volleyball coach is a male. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(07-08-2022 02:59 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  Gross. Men probably shouldn't be coaching women's sports. I knew of a high school AD who came in new to the school and specifically told me how the softball program needed a coaching change since it was all men holding the coaching spots. It's also creepy to me that UT's volleyball coach is a male. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There was a time when it was almost all female coaches coaching women in college sports. When salaries started going up, and in some cases way up, men were attracted to the jobs. In many cases they could devote all of their time to the team, while many women had other interests such as raising a family and weren't long haulers.

(07-08-2022 02:59 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  Gross. Men probably shouldn't be coaching women's sports. I knew of a high school AD who came in new to the school and specifically told me how the softball program needed a coaching change since it was all men holding the coaching spots. It's also creepy to me that UT's volleyball coach is a male. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This viewpoint seems to imply that all men are would-be abusers if they just get the chance, which clearly isn't true. And, if you truly believe this, then maybe men should not be allowed to teach girls/young women either, or be in any other profession that puts them in regular contact with young women. Also, this would potentially penalize girls/women's teams by not allowing them to higher the best available candidate if he happens to be a man.

And this also ignores the large number of incidents (there have been a lot) in recent years of female coaches being found to have been abusing their charges, sometimes for years or decades. Most of the time that has been emotional or psychological abuse and not sexual, but there have been a couple examples of the latter too. And there are incidents of male coaches abusing male athletes, so how do we address that one - have only female coaches for male teams?

The real problem is the culture we have in this country that makes it difficult to impossible for victims and even witnesses to come forward and report these things. And when the brave ones do, more often than not - like in this case - they are not believed and dismissed by the very people who are supposed to be protecting them. Abusers like this in general don't wake up one day in their 40s and decide to start sexually assaulting young women. It seems likely that he had been doing bad things even before he came to Toledo. He could have been stopped in his tracks if the very first incident was reported, believed, properly investigated and appropriate action taken. But that seems to not happen very often - even today, even with Title IX requiring it, and the huge threat of expensive lawsuits. That's so sad.

Heck we have two justices on the supreme court who were reported as abusers by women, and those reports were disbelieved as lies and slander and just women's regret, because in this country people have been programmed (by powerful men) that it is easier to believe that a women is a liar than a victim, no matter what the weight of the evidence to the contrary.

(07-08-2022 05:58 PM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  The real problem is the culture we have in this country that makes it difficult to impossible for victims and even witnesses to come forward and report these things.

Athletics, business,... there's also a culture of suck-it-up, get-ahead, look-the-other-way. They all came into play here, they came into play in the Sansusky situation, they came into play in hazing.

We have a culture of putting on ignore people whose viewpoints are not consistent with the good-ol-boys and shutting down (gas-lighting being new/old idiom) those who say, "something ain't right."

As I wrote in my original post on the topic, change is needed or see you all in ten years when we're discussing again, something ain't right.

(07-08-2022 12:25 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 07:09 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 04:02 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 03:45 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  But all that happens is system resets and it happens again and again as soon as no one is looking. There still has to be a safe reporting system in-place AND instilled. Even if that means training scenarios for sports administration AND sports participants.

Look, the system failed here. I'm not just referring to UToledo but also local sports journalism. It failed. If it does not look at itself and even in retrospect consider should it have done something differently, then the needed checks-and-balances are not in-place to inhibit problems in the future. See you again in ten years.

This is one that gets me too...how in the hell does the local paper not get word of this (or worse, get word and not run with it) and how do they get scooped by a paper based in friggin London, UK?!

There's more than one news source here. Duh'local is an easy focus cuz no one likes the boss. What about the others?

Everyone sooner or later misses opportunity or just misses the trees for the forest. Giving benefit of the doubt that's alll this was it's still "failure." I think I'd like to see local journalism address it publically. Step through their process and discuss are they dropping responsibility for oversight and just printing what is brought into their door by interested parties looking for promotion? What comes conveniently?

Did they perform due dilligence 7-10 years ago and still miss the story? Do they even have a due dilligence? This is an opportunity for local journalism to connect with the public, show they have purpose.

Agreed, it was a complete failure by all local news media. There is no way that no one got wind of any of this over a decade and a half.

Yep but then again all coverage of UT sports by local news media is pretty pathetic.

What is far more appalling to me is that UT Athletics and Title IX office completely failed their moral, ethical and legal responsibilities to fully and properly report and investigate this situation. Over the same timeline, several UT employees including full time permanent tenured faculty have been found to be in violation of Title IX and removed from their employment at UT. So rules and process exists and is enforced but clearly not equally across the institution. Plus every UT employee who deals with students is required to complete annual Title IX training and are considered mandatory reporters-another aspect of this case that failed and needs to be investigated.

First coverage that includes a response from the new AD.

https://www.wtol.com/article/news/local/...def61394e0

Nothing yet about any staff changes.

(07-12-2022 10:25 AM)PaulJ Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 12:25 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 07:09 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 04:02 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 03:45 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  But all that happens is system resets and it happens again and again as soon as no one is looking. There still has to be a safe reporting system in-place AND instilled. Even if that means training scenarios for sports administration AND sports participants.

Look, the system failed here. I'm not just referring to UToledo but also local sports journalism. It failed. If it does not look at itself and even in retrospect consider should it have done something differently, then the needed checks-and-balances are not in-place to inhibit problems in the future. See you again in ten years.

This is one that gets me too...how in the hell does the local paper not get word of this (or worse, get word and not run with it) and how do they get scooped by a paper based in friggin London, UK?!

There's more than one news source here. Duh'local is an easy focus cuz no one likes the boss. What about the others?

Everyone sooner or later misses opportunity or just misses the trees for the forest. Giving benefit of the doubt that's alll this was it's still "failure." I think I'd like to see local journalism address it publically. Step through their process and discuss are they dropping responsibility for oversight and just printing what is brought into their door by interested parties looking for promotion? What comes conveniently?

Did they perform due dilligence 7-10 years ago and still miss the story? Do they even have a due dilligence? This is an opportunity for local journalism to connect with the public, show they have purpose.

Agreed, it was a complete failure by all local news media. There is no way that no one got wind of any of this over a decade and a half.

Yep but then again all coverage of UT sports by local news media is pretty pathetic.

What is far more appalling to me is that UT Athletics and Title IX office completely failed their moral, ethical and legal responsibilities to fully and properly report and investigate this situation. Over the same timeline, several UT employees including full time permanent tenured faculty have been found to be in violation of Title IX and removed from their employment at UT. So rules and process exists and is enforced but clearly not equally across the institution. Plus every UT employee who deals with students is required to complete annual Title IX training and are considered mandatory reporters-another aspect of this case that failed and needs to be investigated.

You would have to figure that there is going to be a fine levied on the University because of this too...one that the AD definitely can't afford.

The Guardian published another follow-up article today.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/s...llegations

And yet the University continues to say and do nothing. That's just terrible. Very disappointed that the new AD and new President refuse to do or say anything. They have clean hands from this, so should be more willing to do something, but nope. This is doubly terrible, as the FB team treks to SDSU who is going through their own problems with significant criticism of how the school has dealt with rape allegations against three FB players. The SD police seems to be not doing much either since they have reportedly refused to give the victim the records she has requested and they are required to give her according to California law.

(09-20-2022 04:06 PM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  The Guardian published another follow-up article today.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/s...llegations

And yet the University continues to say and do nothing. That's just terrible. Very disappointed that the new AD and new President refuse to do or say anything. They have clean hands from this, so should be more willing to do something, but nope. This is doubly terrible, as the FB team treks to SDSU who is going through their own problems with significant criticism of how the school has dealt with rape allegations against three FB players. The SD police seems to be not doing much either since they have reportedly refused to give the victim the records she has requested and they are required to give her according to California law.

It's not a good look, is it. But then back to journalism. Have any of the locals put the question to them, is it being looked at?

I hate to bring up the flip side but: what if it is not true? It is an allegation that is impossible for Evans to prove didn't happen and impossible for the woman to prove did happen. It is suspicious that she claims it happened the day he hired her and then she continued to work with him for years. Also, if you think about it logically, IF there was any substance to the assault, the school would not just stop investigating when he resigned. Had he stolen $10,000, they would continue to investigate after he resigned if there was enough there to warrant the investigation?

At this point it seems as though the Guardian hit piece did not get the response they wanted and they want to keep pushing. His career is ruined. It has likely changed his life forever. There is no way of proving anything on either side. What is the end game here other than this woman being vindictive?

The guy is gone. His career and life are ruined. What is the point in beating this dead horse?

(09-20-2022 08:36 PM)utxctrack Wrote:  I hate to bring up the flip side but: what if it is not true? It is an allegation that is impossible for Evans to prove didn't happen and impossible for the woman to prove did happen. It is suspicious that she claims it happened the day he hired her and then she continued to work with him for years. Also, if you think about it logically, IF there was any substance to the assault, the school would not just stop investigating when he resigned. Had he stolen $10,000, they would continue to investigate after he resigned if there was enough there to warrant the investigation?

At this point it seems as though the Guardian hit piece did not get the response they wanted and they want to keep pushing. His career is ruined. It has likely changed his life forever. There is no way of proving anything on either side. What is the end game here other than this woman being vindictive?

The guy is gone. His career and life are ruined. What is the point in beating this dead horse?

We're not talking about a single allegation by a single person. There was a history of disgusting behavior on the coach's part directed at a number of women. So there really is no flip side here. I don't know whether his life is ruined, but his career definitely should be ruined and should have been ruined a lot sooner than it was. At this point, the reason to keep talking about the situation is that no one at UT has ever been held accountable for the University's failings.

(09-20-2022 08:49 PM)Lester Wrote:  

(09-20-2022 08:36 PM)utxctrack Wrote:  I hate to bring up the flip side but: what if it is not true? It is an allegation that is impossible for Evans to prove didn't happen and impossible for the woman to prove did happen. It is suspicious that she claims it happened the day he hired her and then she continued to work with him for years. Also, if you think about it logically, IF there was any substance to the assault, the school would not just stop investigating when he resigned. Had he stolen $10,000, they would continue to investigate after he resigned if there was enough there to warrant the investigation?

At this point it seems as though the Guardian hit piece did not get the response they wanted and they want to keep pushing. His career is ruined. It has likely changed his life forever. There is no way of proving anything on either side. What is the end game here other than this woman being vindictive?

The guy is gone. His career and life are ruined. What is the point in beating this dead horse?

We're not talking about a single allegation by a single person. There was a history of disgusting behavior on the coach's part directed at a number of women. So there really is no flip side here. I don't know whether his life is ruined, but his career definitely should be ruined and should have been ruined a lot sooner than it was. At this point, the reason to keep talking about the situation is that no one at UT has ever been held accountable for the University's failings.

Exactly. He was never held accountable for things that were not only disgusting but were criminal. By UT covering it up and not following through with an investigation and a disclosure, he was allowed to keep coaching girls youth soccer. My god, they let an apparent sexual predator off free to potentially find more victims without warning anyone. There is at least one person still employed at UT that was never held accountable the sin of omission in not making sure the actions were fully investigated and reported.

This is exactly why these things keep happening over and over again, because no one will step up and say anything, and they just say, well he left so it isn't our problem now, we don't have to worry about it. Even the coach who was there in the restaurant the night of that one incident said she felt compelled to protect UT first. How messed up is that, that the culture we have in this country is to protect sexual predators to avoid embarrassing the institutions that gave them the opportunities. It's never gonna change until people start speaking up and people are held accountable.

The person whose life was ruined was NOT Evans - he hasn't paid any price as near as I can tell. It was the soccer player he assaulted, and the number of other players, coaches and staff at UT that were quoted in the article as having been his victims. Do they not deserve some amount of justice? Do they not deserve an acknowledgement by the University that they screwed up and have put in place procedures to ensure it will never happen again? That is the least UT could do for her and the others. But it seems UT has lined up on the side of the MSUs and Baylors and Penn States and other schools that decided to just do nothing and hope it goes away, no matter who was damaged along the way.

I hope the new AD is reading this thread. Please AD Blair, do SOMETHING to show someone cares about what happened to those women.

(09-20-2022 08:36 PM)utxctrack Wrote:  I hate to bring up the flip side but: what if it is not true? It is an allegation that is impossible for Evans to prove didn't happen and impossible for the woman to prove did happen. It is suspicious that she claims it happened the day he hired her and then she continued to work with him for years. Also, if you think about it logically, IF there was any substance to the assault, the school would not just stop investigating when he resigned. Had he stolen $10,000, they would continue to investigate after he resigned if there was enough there to warrant the investigation?

At this point it seems as though the Guardian hit piece did not get the response they wanted and they want to keep pushing. His career is ruined. It has likely changed his life forever. There is no way of proving anything on either side. What is the end game here other than this woman being vindictive?

The guy is gone. His career and life are ruined. What is the point in beating this dead horse?

Because the horse isn't dead. It's still running. The track judges are wearing blinders.

The point of investigtion is to see if, what and to what level. That's apparently not been done and if done, not done transparently. It MUST be done and it must be done transparently or the University is not meeting obligation to human condition.

(09-20-2022 09:20 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(09-20-2022 08:36 PM)utxctrack Wrote:  I hate to bring up the flip side but: what if it is not true? It is an allegation that is impossible for Evans to prove didn't happen and impossible for the woman to prove did happen. It is suspicious that she claims it happened the day he hired her and then she continued to work with him for years. Also, if you think about it logically, IF there was any substance to the assault, the school would not just stop investigating when he resigned. Had he stolen $10,000, they would continue to investigate after he resigned if there was enough there to warrant the investigation?

At this point it seems as though the Guardian hit piece did not get the response they wanted and they want to keep pushing. His career is ruined. It has likely changed his life forever. There is no way of proving anything on either side. What is the end game here other than this woman being vindictive?

The guy is gone. His career and life are ruined. What is the point in beating this dead horse?

Because the horse isn't dead. It's still running. The track judges are wearing blinders.

The point of investigtion is to see if, what and to what level. That's apparently not been done and if done, not done transparently. It MUST be done and it must be done transparently or the University is not meeting obligation to human condition.

And if it isn't/wasn't done to the standards laid out in Title IX of the Education Amendments, then the University will likely face an audit of their ENTIRE sexual assault review process and a large fine for any wrongdoing. With the Title IV audit they are already undergoing, it's just more headaches for those in University Complaince (and the Finance Department) on top of the most important part of this being that anyone affiliated with the University can freely take part in its instruction and activities without fear of sexual assault going unreported or underinvestigated.

Bad series of events for the young women. Sad to see abuse. I wish for their complete emotional recovery.

Very tough period for a man in a women's environment when even doing everything 100% correct. Male teachers at St. Ursula and ND must walk halls with eyes focused straight forward or up or be scrutinized. I know this first hand. Abuse can be mental or physical so same sex coaching is also tough but maybe it does mitigate some of the problems. Dunno.

UT messed up. Justice delayed is always bad.

New article, indicating there likely is a Title IX investigation on-going related to this mess.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/s...dApp_Other