Team is exactly what most thought.

Team is better than what the spread at USC was
Team is not as good as score differential was last night.

Four pick 6’s in game one and five turnovers last night basically 100% explain the big gaps in score for both games. Even out the Rice miscues in game one and the McNeese miscues last night and both games are much closer.

Stanford/Pro Style ‘manhood’ philosophy works great at Rice when you are playing McNeese State and is horrible when playing real P5 competition. There are some wins on the schedule where it will work but many where it won’t and more strategically, won't work to get Rice to a more relevant lot in football life.

Sticking to the 4-8 prediction.

(09-11-2022 11:48 AM)franklyconfused Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 11:33 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 10:43 AM)bigowlsfan Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 08:48 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 08:41 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  This offense looks familiar…circa 2008.

And the Bloom offense rears its ugly head. 3rd and 2 and he goes back to the toss back play which loses 3. Why???

Because we averaged 5 yards a run, and running keeps the clock going, even if the play is not successful?

A team, this team, can run successfully without tossing the ball backwards several yards. More negative to neutral results than positive results from the toss back play.

The toss dive doesn't fail because the ball goes backwards. A traditional handoff takes it back, too, and so did the snaps to all our McHargue-Ross option plays in 2012-13. The theory of the toss dive is supposed to be that the ball gets to the halfback's hands more quickly, giving him more time to react to the how the blocking develops. The deficiency in the design is that it gives away the inside run call that much more quickly, letting the linebackers and secondary key in on their run fits a few steps earlier. Even if the HB has more time to read the blocking, there's likely fewer gaps to find than if the defense was concerned about whether the QB kept the ball on a bootleg coming out of the handoff. We could maybe relieve some of this pressure by having the HB try a pop pass to a tight end from time to time, but Bloomgren's (and David Shaw's) entire thesis for running this instead of a traditional handoff is the belief that the o-line is or should be so dominant anyway that the run should succeed regardless of how the HB gets the ball.

You’re response highlights all that is wrong with the toss back. Ball goes backwards 3-5 yards vs 2-3 on a handoff, shows inside run early, and eliminates QB play fake, bootleg, etc.

So what’s good about the toss back? Gets the ball into the RBs hands early? If the OL isn’t opening holes, it just means there is the the potential for a greater loss.

Color me not a fan of that play. Ever.

One big pluse is we have a field goal kicker and someone who can kick in the end zone relative to last year.

(09-11-2022 12:35 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 11:48 AM)franklyconfused Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 11:33 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 10:43 AM)bigowlsfan Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 08:48 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  And the Bloom offense rears its ugly head. 3rd and 2 and he goes back to the toss back play which loses 3. Why???

Because we averaged 5 yards a run, and running keeps the clock going, even if the play is not successful?

A team, this team, can run successfully without tossing the ball backwards several yards. More negative to neutral results than positive results from the toss back play.

The toss dive doesn't fail because the ball goes backwards. A traditional handoff takes it back, too, and so did the snaps to all our McHargue-Ross option plays in 2012-13. The theory of the toss dive is supposed to be that the ball gets to the halfback's hands more quickly, giving him more time to react to the how the blocking develops. The deficiency in the design is that it gives away the inside run call that much more quickly, letting the linebackers and secondary key in on their run fits a few steps earlier. Even if the HB has more time to read the blocking, there's likely fewer gaps to find than if the defense was concerned about whether the QB kept the ball on a bootleg coming out of the handoff. We could maybe relieve some of this pressure by having the HB try a pop pass to a tight end from time to time, but Bloomgren's (and David Shaw's) entire thesis for running this instead of a traditional handoff is the belief that the o-line is or should be so dominant anyway that the run should succeed regardless of how the HB gets the ball.

You’re response highlights all that is wrong with the toss back. Ball goes backwards 3-5 yards vs 2-3 on a handoff, shows inside run early, and eliminates QB play fake, bootleg, etc.

So what’s good about the toss back? Gets the ball into the RBs hands early? If the OL isn’t opening holes, it just means there is the the potential for a greater loss.

Color me not a fan of that play. Ever.

What it does is change the mesh point between the QB and RB AND the trajectories of the QB and RB to create the mesh point. This impacts the LBs ability to commit to run support as well as altering their run fits. It also momentarily holds the LBs as the QB still has a pass option until the toss. This delays their ability to fully commit to run support and alters their gap control orientation and trajectories. It also affects the edge defender and containment as the toss allows a RB to make a cutback to the outside. It also holds the backside run support a step which creates a potential seam for a backside cut. You could still run a boot action off the toss look either way. In other words, the key component is creating an exchange point without the QB and RB having to physically be at that same point, just the ball and the RB. If the DL can overwhelm the OL, then it all becomes moot.

(09-11-2022 03:29 PM)ruowls Wrote:  If the DL can overwhelm the OL, then it all becomes moot.

I would go a bit further and say that if the OL cannot overwhelm the DL, then it all becomes moot. And that, of course, is the problem trying to run this play with Rice's personnel. On the flip side, if your OL can constantly overwhelm the DL, you can make any play work. That's how Rice can blow out McNeese but throw 3 pick-sixes against USC.

You really need two things to make pound the rock work--an OL that can overwhelm the DL and a pocket passer who can convert third and eight when the run does not work. Bloomgren has not found or developed either in 5 years.

I get the feeling that people who feel Rice still runs a pound the rock offense are the same people who think Rice is still playing in the SWC.

(09-11-2022 03:49 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I get the feeling that people who feel Rice still runs a pound the rock offense are the same people who think Rice is still playing in the SWC.

Rice does not run a pound the rock offense because Rice cannot execute a pound the rock offense.

(09-10-2022 08:49 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  For all the renovations, the ugliest part of the stadium might still be the concrete bench areas in the endzone. Even being used to seeing them on the broadcast, they're such eyesores.

Also, somebody might be able to correct me, but I think we've run 5 or 6 toss plays for a combined 5 or 6 yards. Nothing new, but that play needs to be out of the playbook.

Agree. The endzone has no useful function, and it's the ugliest part of the stadium.

The toss plays are useless. Maybe it would work if we could block.

(09-11-2022 03:46 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 03:29 PM)ruowls Wrote:  If the DL can overwhelm the OL, then it all becomes moot.

I would go a bit further and say that if the OL cannot overwhelm the DL, then it all becomes moot. And that, of course, is the problem trying to run this play with Rice's personnel. On the flip side, if your OL can constantly overwhelm the DL, you can make any play work. That's how Rice can blow out McNeese but throw 3 pick-sixes against USC.

You really need two things to make pound the rock work--an OL that can overwhelm the DL and a pocket passer who can convert third and eight when the run does not work. Bloomgren has not found or developed either in 5 years.

Agree with all this. Bloomgren should have changed the offense when he saw that he couldn't recruit the personnel to run it effectively. Unfortunately for him, it will end up costing him his job.

(09-11-2022 04:42 PM)Ourland Wrote:  The endzone has no useful function, and it's the ugliest part of the stadium.

Are you making a statement on esthetics, or paraphrasing the end result of 4 years of Bloomgren philosophy on implementing an offense?

(09-11-2022 03:29 PM)ruowls Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 12:35 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 11:48 AM)franklyconfused Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 11:33 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 10:43 AM)bigowlsfan Wrote:  Because we averaged 5 yards a run, and running keeps the clock going, even if the play is not successful?

A team, this team, can run successfully without tossing the ball backwards several yards. More negative to neutral results than positive results from the toss back play.

The toss dive doesn't fail because the ball goes backwards. A traditional handoff takes it back, too, and so did the snaps to all our McHargue-Ross option plays in 2012-13. The theory of the toss dive is supposed to be that the ball gets to the halfback's hands more quickly, giving him more time to react to the how the blocking develops. The deficiency in the design is that it gives away the inside run call that much more quickly, letting the linebackers and secondary key in on their run fits a few steps earlier. Even if the HB has more time to read the blocking, there's likely fewer gaps to find than if the defense was concerned about whether the QB kept the ball on a bootleg coming out of the handoff. We could maybe relieve some of this pressure by having the HB try a pop pass to a tight end from time to time, but Bloomgren's (and David Shaw's) entire thesis for running this instead of a traditional handoff is the belief that the o-line is or should be so dominant anyway that the run should succeed regardless of how the HB gets the ball.

You’re response highlights all that is wrong with the toss back. Ball goes backwards 3-5 yards vs 2-3 on a handoff, shows inside run early, and eliminates QB play fake, bootleg, etc.

So what’s good about the toss back? Gets the ball into the RBs hands early? If the OL isn’t opening holes, it just means there is the the potential for a greater loss.

Color me not a fan of that play. Ever.

What it does is change the mesh point between the QB and RB AND the trajectories of the QB and RB to create the mesh point. This impacts the LBs ability to commit to run support as well as altering their run fits. It also momentarily holds the LBs as the QB still has a pass option until the toss. This delays their ability to fully commit to run support and alters their gap control orientation and trajectories. It also affects the edge defender and containment as the toss allows a RB to make a cutback to the outside. It also holds the backside run support a step which creates a potential seam for a backside cut. You could still run a boot action off the toss look either way. In other words, the key component is creating an exchange point without the QB and RB having to physically be at that same point, just the ball and the RB. If the DL can overwhelm the OL, then it all becomes moot.

I don’t remember ever seeing a Bloomgren offense do anything on the toss back play other than toss it back, too many times for a loss. So glad the OC seems to be dictating more of the offense this season.

(09-11-2022 06:04 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 04:42 PM)Ourland Wrote:  The endzone has no useful function, and it's the ugliest part of the stadium.

Are you making a statement on esthetics, or paraphrasing the end result of 4 years of Bloomgren philosophy on implementing an offense?

Lol

(09-10-2022 08:09 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 08:07 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  I'm being asked by my family if the baton twirlers is parody or serious.

Haven’t seen a twirler in a MOB show since Marvin Zindler.

The twirler is the daughter of the current mayor of West U.
She gets experience twirling before a crowd, and proud mom can take lots of pictures.
Said mayor was a flautist in The MOB in the early 80s.

The MOB had a real live undergraduate student twirling nearly every game roughly 10 years ago, for all of her years at Rice. She has since graduated from Baylor College of Medicine, and is in residency training.

I think Marvin last twirled for us in 1993, briefly, during our 20th anniversary A&M show.

(09-12-2022 01:02 AM)Grungy Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 08:09 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 08:07 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  I'm being asked by my family if the baton twirlers is parody or serious.

Haven’t seen a twirler in a MOB show since Marvin Zindler.

The twirler is the daughter of the current mayor of West U.
She gets experience twirling before a crowd, and proud mom can take lots of pictures.
Said mayor was a flautist in The MOB in the early 80s.

The MOB had a real live undergraduate student twirling nearly every game roughly 10 years ago, for all of her years at Rice. She has since graduated from Baylor College of Medicine, and is in residency training.

I think Marvin last twirled for us in 1993, briefly, during our 20th anniversary A&M show.

Should have said don’t remember a twirler since Marvin Zindler. There is a difference.

Best of luck to both of the twirlers since Marvin!

(09-12-2022 01:02 AM)Grungy Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 08:09 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 08:07 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  I'm being asked by my family if the baton twirlers is parody or serious.

Haven’t seen a twirler in a MOB show since Marvin Zindler.

The twirler is the daughter of the current mayor of West U.
She gets experience twirling before a crowd, and proud mom can take lots of pictures.
Said mayor was a flautist in The MOB in the early 80s.

The MOB had a real live undergraduate student twirling nearly every game roughly 10 years ago, for all of her years at Rice. She has since graduated from Baylor College of Medicine, and is in residency training.

I think Marvin last twirled for us in 1993, briefly, during our 20th anniversary A&M show.

Good to hear. When she took off her shoes half way through I just assumed I was missing a joke.

(09-12-2022 07:33 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 01:02 AM)Grungy Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 08:09 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 08:07 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  I'm being asked by my family if the baton twirlers is parody or serious.

Haven’t seen a twirler in a MOB show since Marvin Zindler.

The twirler is the daughter of the current mayor of West U.
She gets experience twirling before a crowd, and proud mom can take lots of pictures.
Said mayor was a flautist in The MOB in the early 80s.

The MOB had a real live undergraduate student twirling nearly every game roughly 10 years ago, for all of her years at Rice. She has since graduated from Baylor College of Medicine, and is in residency training.

I think Marvin last twirled for us in 1993, briefly, during our 20th anniversary A&M show.

Good to hear. When she took off her shoes half way through I just assumed I was missing a joke.

I miss pretty much everything that isn't between me and Chuck.
At my age it's pretty hard to do much past stand in the right place, play the right song at the right time, and act out something in the script.
I rarely get to be a fan or tourist and look around.
In rehearsal that morning she asked me where she should be on the field, and we looked at the charts and I made a suggestion.
So I had a vague idea where she was, but I never witnessed a single twirl.
I can ask mom why the shoes came off.

Is De'Braylen Carroll hurt? I didn't see him in the game Saturday.

(09-12-2022 01:56 PM)wrysal Wrote:  Is De'Braylen Carroll hurt? I didn't see him in the game Saturday.

He started the game. No stats, but I don't recall seeing him much either.

The starters I noticed who are out were Green, Patterson, Servin & Klakorski on the OL. But the offense didn't seem to need them against McNeese.

(09-12-2022 02:19 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 01:56 PM)wrysal Wrote:  Is De'Braylen Carroll hurt? I didn't see him in the game Saturday.

He started the game. No stats, but I don't recall seeing him much either.

The starters I noticed who are out were Green, Patterson, Servin & Klakorski on the OL. But the offense didn't seem to need them against McNeese.

I saw him in a boot towards the end of the game. Hopefully nothing serious.

(09-12-2022 07:33 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 01:02 AM)Grungy Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 08:09 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 08:07 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  I'm being asked by my family if the baton twirlers is parody or serious.

Haven’t seen a twirler in a MOB show since Marvin Zindler.

The twirler is the daughter of the current mayor of West U.
She gets experience twirling before a crowd, and proud mom can take lots of pictures.
Said mayor was a flautist in The MOB in the early 80s.

The MOB had a real live undergraduate student twirling nearly every game roughly 10 years ago, for all of her years at Rice. She has since graduated from Baylor College of Medicine, and is in residency training.

I think Marvin last twirled for us in 1993, briefly, during our 20th anniversary A&M show.

Good to hear. When she took off her shoes half way through I just assumed I was missing a joke.

Mom says "She couldn't turn because the turf was too sticky."

She's pretty much on her own in the shows - we aren't telling her what to do beyond suggesting where to stand to be seen and out of the path of our insane action.