If we get an expanded playoff, and I think we will, what becomes of the myriad of bowls we have out there?

We’ve already got players skipping them because they don’t see any value in them. Will fans stop seeing value in them as well?

I wonder if we might see the bowls be replaced with little 4-team NIT-Esque tournaments.

If we see a clean break between the P2 and everyone else or the P2/M3 and everyone else would we see a 8/12/16 team NCAA tournament emerge?

I personally would like to see the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and either the Fiesta or Cotton Bowls as permanent quarterfinal sites but then what would become of the Peach, Holiday, Citrus, Texas, Outback, Gator, etc?

(08-04-2022 03:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If we get an expanded playoff, and I think we will, what becomes of the myriad of bowls we have out there?

We’ve already got players skipping them because they don’t see any value in them. Will fans stop seeing value in them as well?

I wonder if we might see the bowls be replaced with little 4-team NIT-Esque tournaments.

If we see a clean break between the P2 and everyone else or the P2/M3 and everyone else would we see a 8/12/16 team NCAA tournament emerge?

I personally would like to see the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and either the Fiesta or Cotton Bowls as permanent quarterfinal sites but then what would become of the Peach, Holiday, Citrus, Texas, Outback, Gator, etc?

As long as the ad rates for the pre-New Year's Day bowl are worth more than regular season NHL, College Basketball, or Steven A. Smith yelling into the void I imagine we will still have the bowls. IMO the bowls are no more or less worthless now than the ever were in years when the Big Ten or PAC 10 champ weren't first or second in the polls. Even then it only meant at most three games were more than an exhibition.

(08-04-2022 03:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If we get an expanded playoff, and I think we will, what becomes of the myriad of bowls we have out there?

We’ve already got players skipping them because they don’t see any value in them. Will fans stop seeing value in them as well?

I think that ship has already sailed. The non-NY6, non-playoff bowls are already just games in more-or-less attractive cities to spend a weekend / a few days in. [/quote]

Quote:I wonder if we might see the bowls be replaced with little 4-team NIT-Esque tournaments.

I don't see any demand for that.

Quote:If we see a clean break between the P2 and everyone else or the P2/M3 and everyone else would we see a 8/12/16 team NCAA tournament emerge?

Probably? I don't think the left-behinds would just merge with FCS, so you'd have a tournament.

Quote:I personally would like to see the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and either the Fiesta or Cotton Bowls as permanent quarterfinal sites but then what would become of the Peach, Holiday, Citrus, Texas, Outback, Gator, etc?

All of the bowls except maybe the Rose Bowl are already gone. They're just games at neutral sites.

So if the Cotton, Fiesta and PEach can hang on to being quarterfinals, permanently or in rotation, they'll survive as big time games.

Everyone else is going to keep slowly fading, existing to fill airtime on ESPN.

I got the impression, I may be wrong, the latest 16-team proposal would have the first 2 rounds of the CFP on campus in week 1&3 of December and still use the NY6 bowls for the semi-finals.

So the question is would the 8 losers of round 1 and 4 losers of round 2 still be interested in going to a bowl 2-3 weeks later after losing in the CFP? I am guessing not, maybe I am wrong. Which means the Non-CFP bowls go to teams ranked lower than #16.

So for example, in years that the Rose Bowl is not a CFP semi-final, it would probably pair the 4th place team in the Big Ten against the 3rd place team in the PAC, if the PAC still exists.

(08-04-2022 03:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If we get an expanded playoff, and I think we will, what becomes of the myriad of bowls we have out there?

We’ve already got players skipping them because they don’t see any value in them. Will fans stop seeing value in them as well?

I wonder if we might see the bowls be replaced with little 4-team NIT-Esque tournaments.

If we see a clean break between the P2 and everyone else or the P2/M3 and everyone else would we see a 8/12/16 team NCAA tournament emerge?

I personally would like to see the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and either the Fiesta or Cotton Bowls as permanent quarterfinal sites but then what would become of the Peach, Holiday, Citrus, Texas, Outback, Gator, etc?

For me, I had been thinking about a B-tier of 9 bowl games reserved for the remaining CFP Top 25 teams and conference champs that didn't make the 12 team CFP to participate in, but maybe you could turn it into an NIT-like CFP for the 4 remaining conference champs and top 12 at-large teams with the 1st round on Campus, the 2nd round in Bowls, semis in Orlando, and championship wherever the CFP championship is played.

Using the 2022-23 calendar, play 1 game on Monday and Thursday (prior to NFL MNF and TNF) and a couple games each for Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday either the week before or after the quarterfinals, 1 or 2 games on the Dec. 30th and 2 or 3 games on Dec. 31st, then maybe pair up with the CFP semis for a Thursday-Friday doubleheader with the NIT CFP playing in Orlando kicking off at 4:30 PM and the CFP in Vegas following at 8:30 PM. Then play the NIT CFP championship the following Saturday prior to NFL playoffs in the early afternoon with the National Championship game 2 days later.

I don't see any change for most bowl games. The ESPN family of networks needs content and FBS schools want to play in bowl games. Very little will change for the MAC, for example. (I would hope our champion would get an automatic playoff bid every year, but our other schools will continue to want to play in bowl games.)

As for the top bowls: It wouldn't surprise me if some of them disappear or radically reinvent themselves. Is the Rose Bowl really going to be able to sell out that huge stadium with two schools barely in the Top 25? What about the Cotton? The Fiesta?

Those are a lot of seats to fill for second-tier matchups. It might be better for these big stadiums reinvent themselves as "bowl" games that host a particular game of the playoff.

(08-04-2022 03:15 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 03:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If we get an expanded playoff, and I think we will, what becomes of the myriad of bowls we have out there?

We’ve already got players skipping them because they don’t see any value in them. Will fans stop seeing value in them as well?

I wonder if we might see the bowls be replaced with little 4-team NIT-Esque tournaments.

If we see a clean break between the P2 and everyone else or the P2/M3 and everyone else would we see a 8/12/16 team NCAA tournament emerge?

I personally would like to see the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and either the Fiesta or Cotton Bowls as permanent quarterfinal sites but then what would become of the Peach, Holiday, Citrus, Texas, Outback, Gator, etc?

As long as the ad rates for the pre-New Year's Day bowl are worth more than regular season NHL, College Basketball, or Steven A. Smith yelling into the void I imagine we will still have the bowls. IMO the bowls are no more or less worthless now than the ever were in years when the Big Ten or PAC 10 champ weren't first or second in the polls. Even then it only meant at most three games were more than an exhibition.

I think this is the answer.

Nothing much new happens. They'll continue to be more or less what they've always been - off-season holiday tourism boosters for the cities/boondoggles for the bowl committees/programming for tv with a little light sprinkling of contract bonuses for coaches/rewards (as far as you want to see it that way) for the players/an excuse for a trip and one more game for the fans.


If enough people will still watch a late season exhibition game (and I'm not sure why this would change) then we'll still get these games instead of whatever else would take their place (and for as cynical as I am about the bowl system, I'd take the games themselves over just about any other tv programming).

If the relative prestige of like the Outback Bowl or something drops or rises, I don't much care about that. Whichever bowls can make the best deals for the best contracts with conferences and tv will have the first dibs on getting the most bankable match-ups. After that it'll be a similar crap shoot to what it's always been.

Instead of more separation, what I would actually like to see is more blurring of the subdivisions in D1 football. I think an interesting proposal would be to essentially separate FBS and FCS into 4 divisions, but then to allow for more cross-play between the two, especially in the postseason.

What I mean by that is, I essentially see a

1. Power level (or whatever you want to call it, whether it's 2, 3, 4, or 5 conferences doesn't matter) which are essentially the conferences that are each guaranteed an automatic bid to the playoff and the majority of the playoff teams come from. Teams not in the playoffs will still be able to play in bowls against other power or FBS teams.

2. An FBS level which includes conferences that do not have a guaranteed spot in the top-level playoffs, but are able to participate and likely have 1 or 2 automatic spots awarded to the highest rated champions, with the rest of the winning teams playing in bowls.

3. An FCS top level whose teams can choose to participate in the FCS playoffs or play in bowl games against the lower level FBS teams. (i.e. SOCON, MVFC, CAA, SWAC)

4. A lower-level FCS which has automatic bids to the FCS playoff but are not able to choose to participate in the bowl game system. (i.e. OVC, WAC, ASUN, etc)

And technically a 5th level for non-scholarship FCS football, but that's already a separate deal.

I like this idea because for some FCS programs, the opportunity to compete against a higher level team in a bowl game may outweigh the chance of playing in the playoffs. I'm not saying it would for all, but can you imagine an App State vs. JMU (pre FBS move) bowl game? Or Montana vs Wyoming? I don't think there are enough "top-level" FCS programs to form a fully separate division, but I do think there are 15-20 programs at the top of FCS that could provide interesting matchups with some FBS teams and with deregulation being a major player right now, it would be the time to try such a move.

(08-04-2022 03:25 PM)goofus Wrote:  I got the impression, I may be wrong, the latest 16-team proposal would have the first 2 rounds of the CFP on campus in week 1&3 of December and still use the NY6 bowls for the semi-finals.

So the question is would the 8 losers of round 1 and 4 losers of round 2 still be interested in going to a bowl 2-3 weeks later after losing in the CFP? I am guessing not, maybe I am wrong. Which means the Non-CFP bowls go to teams ranked lower than #16.

So for example, in years that the Rose Bowl is not a CFP semi-final, it would probably pair the 4th place team in the Big Ten against the 3rd place team in the PAC, if the PAC still exists.

The first two rounds would be better at bowl sites.

Locations you can market year round since you know they will be hosting the playoffs.

Continue to call them bowls for the sake of tradition.

I don't see why we can't have playoffs Saturday and bowls Tuesday thru Thursday. A 12 playoff with the first 2 rounds at home Court and have the semi finals on new years. I would like to see bowls become the best regional games available if possible.

(08-04-2022 03:54 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 03:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If we get an expanded playoff, and I think we will, what becomes of the myriad of bowls we have out there?

We’ve already got players skipping them because they don’t see any value in them. Will fans stop seeing value in them as well?

I wonder if we might see the bowls be replaced with little 4-team NIT-Esque tournaments.

If we see a clean break between the P2 and everyone else or the P2/M3 and everyone else would we see a 8/12/16 team NCAA tournament emerge?

I personally would like to see the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and either the Fiesta or Cotton Bowls as permanent quarterfinal sites but then what would become of the Peach, Holiday, Citrus, Texas, Outback, Gator, etc?

For me, I had been thinking about a B-tier of 9 bowl games reserved for the remaining CFP Top 25 teams and conference champs that didn't make the 12 team CFP to participate in, but maybe you could turn it into an NIT-like CFP for the 4 remaining conference champs and top 12 at-large teams with the 1st round on Campus, the 2nd round in Bowls, semis in Orlando, and championship wherever the CFP championship is played.

Using the 2022-23 calendar, play 1 game on Monday and Thursday (prior to NFL MNF and TNF) and a couple games each for Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday either the week before or after the quarterfinals, 1 or 2 games on the Dec. 30th and 2 or 3 games on Dec. 31st, then maybe pair up with the CFP semis for a Thursday-Friday doubleheader with the NIT CFP playing in Orlando kicking off at 4:30 PM and the CFP in Vegas following at 8:30 PM. Then play the NIT CFP championship the following Saturday prior to NFL playoffs in the early afternoon with the National Championship game 2 days later.

For what it's worth, matched up a 16 team NIT-like CFP to see what it would look like with the remaining 4 conference champs and top 12 at-large. I'll let y'all look at it to see if it'd be a good idea or better off using them as a B-tier Bowl Games. They are seeded based on CFP Rankings and using the AP Poll for unranked teams.


2017
#16 Troy (10-2) @ #1 Stanford (9-4)
#9 Northwestern (9-3) @ #8 Memphis (10-2)

#13 Boise St. (10-3) @ #4 Michigan St. (9-3)
#12 NC State (8-4) @ #5 LSU (9-3)

#15 FAU/Toledo (11-2) @ #2 Notre Dame (9-3)
#10 Virginia Tech (9-3) @ #7 Oklahoma St. (9-3)

#14 Toledo/FAU (11-2) @ #3 TCU (10-3)
#11 Mississippi St. (8-4) @ #6 Washington St. (9-3)


2018
#16 Northern Illinois (8-5) @ #1 Washington St. (10-2)
#9 Fresno St. (11-2) @ #8 Syracuse (9-3)

#13 Boise St. (11-2) @ #4 West Virginia (8-3)
#12 Iowa St. (8-4) @ #5 Utah (9-4)

#15 UAB (10-3) @ #2 Kentucky (9-3)
#10 Northwestern (8-5) @ #7 Texas A&M (8-4)

#14 Appalachian St. (10-2) @ #3 Texas (9-4)
#11 Missouri (8-5) @ #6 Mississippi St. (8-4)


2019
#16 Miami (OH) (8-5) @ #1 Auburn (9-3)
#9 Cincinnati (10-3) @ #8 Appalachian St. (12-1)

#13 Oklahoma St. (8-4) @ #4 Notre Dame (10-2)
#12 Virginia (9-4) @ #5 Iowa (9-3)

#15 FAU (10-3) @ #2 Alabama (10-2)
#10 USC (8-4) @ #7 Boise St. (12-1)

#14 Air Force/SMU (10-2) @ #3 Michigan (9-3)
#11 Navy (10-2) @ #6 Minnesota (10-2)


2020*
#16 UAB @ #1 North Carolina
#9 Oklahoma St. @ #8 Texas

#13 Oregon @ #4 BYU
#12 Tulsa @ #5 USC

#15 Ball St. @ #2 Northwestern
#10 San Jose St. vs. #7 Louisiana

#14 Liberty @ #3 Iowa
#11 NC State @ #6 Miami (FL)


2021
#16 Northern Illinois (9-4) @ #1 BYU (10-2)
#9 Arkansas (8-4) @ #8 Houston (11-2)

#13 Texas A&M (8-4) @ #4 Oklahoma (10-2)
#12 San Diego St. (11-2) @ #5 Wake Forest (10-3)

#15 Utah St. (10-3) @ #2 Oregon (10-3)
#10 Kentucky (9-3) @ #7 Clemson (9-3)

#14 UTSA (12-1) @ #3 Iowa (10-3)
#11 Louisiana (12-1) @ #6 NC State (9-3)
Utah St. upsetting San Diego St. knocked out Minnesota

(08-04-2022 08:08 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 03:54 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 03:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If we get an expanded playoff, and I think we will, what becomes of the myriad of bowls we have out there?

We’ve already got players skipping them because they don’t see any value in them. Will fans stop seeing value in them as well?

I wonder if we might see the bowls be replaced with little 4-team NIT-Esque tournaments.

If we see a clean break between the P2 and everyone else or the P2/M3 and everyone else would we see a 8/12/16 team NCAA tournament emerge?

I personally would like to see the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and either the Fiesta or Cotton Bowls as permanent quarterfinal sites but then what would become of the Peach, Holiday, Citrus, Texas, Outback, Gator, etc?

For me, I had been thinking about a B-tier of 9 bowl games reserved for the remaining CFP Top 25 teams and conference champs that didn't make the 12 team CFP to participate in, but maybe you could turn it into an NIT-like CFP for the 4 remaining conference champs and top 12 at-large teams with the 1st round on Campus, the 2nd round in Bowls, semis in Orlando, and championship wherever the CFP championship is played.

Using the 2022-23 calendar, play 1 game on Monday and Thursday (prior to NFL MNF and TNF) and a couple games each for Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday either the week before or after the quarterfinals, 1 or 2 games on the Dec. 30th and 2 or 3 games on Dec. 31st, then maybe pair up with the CFP semis for a Thursday-Friday doubleheader with the NIT CFP playing in Orlando kicking off at 4:30 PM and the CFP in Vegas following at 8:30 PM. Then play the NIT CFP championship the following Saturday prior to NFL playoffs in the early afternoon with the National Championship game 2 days later.

For what it's worth, matched up a 16 team NIT-like CFP to see what it would look like with the remaining 4 conference champs and top 12 at-large. I'll let y'all look at it to see if it'd be a good idea or better off using them as a B-tier Bowl Games. They are seeded based on CFP Rankings and using the AP Poll for unranked teams.


2017
#16 Troy (10-2) @ #1 Stanford (9-4)
#9 Northwestern (9-3) @ #8 Memphis (10-2)

#13 Boise St. (10-3) @ #4 Michigan St. (9-3)
#12 NC State (8-4) @ #5 LSU (9-3)

#15 FAU/Toledo (11-2) @ #2 Notre Dame (9-3)
#10 Virginia Tech (9-3) @ #7 Oklahoma St. (9-3)

#14 Toledo/FAU (11-2) @ #3 TCU (10-3)
#11 Mississippi St. (8-4) @ #6 Washington St. (9-3)


2018
#16 Northern Illinois (8-5) @ #1 Washington St. (10-2)
#9 Fresno St. (11-2) @ #8 Syracuse (9-3)

#13 Boise St. (11-2) @ #4 West Virginia (8-3)
#12 Iowa St. (8-4) @ #5 Utah (9-4)

#15 UAB (10-3) @ #2 Kentucky (9-3)
#10 Northwestern (8-5) @ #7 Texas A&M (8-4)

#14 Appalachian St. (10-2) @ #3 Texas (9-4)
#11 Missouri (8-5) @ #6 Mississippi St. (8-4)


2019
#16 Miami (OH) (8-5) @ #1 Auburn (9-3)
#9 Cincinnati (10-3) @ #8 Appalachian St. (12-1)

#13 Oklahoma St. (8-4) @ #4 Notre Dame (10-2)
#12 Virginia (9-4) @ #5 Iowa (9-3)

#15 FAU (10-3) @ #2 Alabama (10-2)
#10 USC (8-4) @ #7 Boise St. (12-1)

#14 Air Force/SMU (10-2) @ #3 Michigan (9-3)
#11 Navy (10-2) @ #6 Minnesota (10-2)


2020*
#16 UAB @ #1 North Carolina
#9 Oklahoma St. @ #8 Texas

#13 Oregon @ #4 BYU
#12 Tulsa @ #5 USC

#15 Ball St. @ #2 Northwestern
#10 San Jose St. vs. #7 Louisiana

#14 Liberty @ #3 Iowa
#11 NC State @ #6 Miami (FL)


2021
#16 Northern Illinois (9-4) @ #1 BYU (10-2)
#9 Arkansas (8-4) @ #8 Houston (11-2)

#13 Texas A&M (8-4) @ #4 Oklahoma (10-2)
#12 San Diego St. (11-2) @ #5 Wake Forest (10-3)

#15 Utah St. (10-3) @ #2 Oregon (10-3)
#10 Kentucky (9-3) @ #7 Clemson (9-3)

#14 UTSA (12-1) @ #3 Iowa (10-3)
#11 Louisiana (12-1) @ #6 NC State (9-3)
Utah St. upsetting San Diego St. knocked out Minnesota

If players are going to opt out of meaningless bowl games, why wouldn’t they opt out of multiple meaningless games?

(08-04-2022 03:22 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  All of the bowls except maybe the Rose Bowl are already gone. They're just games at neutral sites.

A-men.

(08-04-2022 08:08 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 03:54 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 03:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If we get an expanded playoff, and I think we will, what becomes of the myriad of bowls we have out there?

We’ve already got players skipping them because they don’t see any value in them. Will fans stop seeing value in them as well?

I wonder if we might see the bowls be replaced with little 4-team NIT-Esque tournaments.

If we see a clean break between the P2 and everyone else or the P2/M3 and everyone else would we see a 8/12/16 team NCAA tournament emerge?

I personally would like to see the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and either the Fiesta or Cotton Bowls as permanent quarterfinal sites but then what would become of the Peach, Holiday, Citrus, Texas, Outback, Gator, etc?

For me, I had been thinking about a B-tier of 9 bowl games reserved for the remaining CFP Top 25 teams and conference champs that didn't make the 12 team CFP to participate in, but maybe you could turn it into an NIT-like CFP for the 4 remaining conference champs and top 12 at-large teams with the 1st round on Campus, the 2nd round in Bowls, semis in Orlando, and championship wherever the CFP championship is played.

Using the 2022-23 calendar, play 1 game on Monday and Thursday (prior to NFL MNF and TNF) and a couple games each for Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday either the week before or after the quarterfinals, 1 or 2 games on the Dec. 30th and 2 or 3 games on Dec. 31st, then maybe pair up with the CFP semis for a Thursday-Friday doubleheader with the NIT CFP playing in Orlando kicking off at 4:30 PM and the CFP in Vegas following at 8:30 PM. Then play the NIT CFP championship the following Saturday prior to NFL playoffs in the early afternoon with the National Championship game 2 days later.

For what it's worth, matched up a 16 team NIT-like CFP to see what it would look like with the remaining 4 conference champs and top 12 at-large. I'll let y'all look at it to see if it'd be a good idea or better off using them as a B-tier Bowl Games. They are seeded based on CFP Rankings and using the AP Poll for unranked teams.


2017
#16 Troy (10-2) @ #1 Stanford (9-4)
#9 Northwestern (9-3) @ #8 Memphis (10-2)

#13 Boise St. (10-3) @ #4 Michigan St. (9-3)
#12 NC State (8-4) @ #5 LSU (9-3)

#15 FAU/Toledo (11-2) @ #2 Notre Dame (9-3)
#10 Virginia Tech (9-3) @ #7 Oklahoma St. (9-3)

#14 Toledo/FAU (11-2) @ #3 TCU (10-3)
#11 Mississippi St. (8-4) @ #6 Washington St. (9-3)


2018
#16 Northern Illinois (8-5) @ #1 Washington St. (10-2)
#9 Fresno St. (11-2) @ #8 Syracuse (9-3)

#13 Boise St. (11-2) @ #4 West Virginia (8-3)
#12 Iowa St. (8-4) @ #5 Utah (9-4)

#15 UAB (10-3) @ #2 Kentucky (9-3)
#10 Northwestern (8-5) @ #7 Texas A&M (8-4)

#14 Appalachian St. (10-2) @ #3 Texas (9-4)
#11 Missouri (8-5) @ #6 Mississippi St. (8-4)


2019
#16 Miami (OH) (8-5) @ #1 Auburn (9-3)
#9 Cincinnati (10-3) @ #8 Appalachian St. (12-1)

#13 Oklahoma St. (8-4) @ #4 Notre Dame (10-2)
#12 Virginia (9-4) @ #5 Iowa (9-3)

#15 FAU (10-3) @ #2 Alabama (10-2)
#10 USC (8-4) @ #7 Boise St. (12-1)

#14 Air Force/SMU (10-2) @ #3 Michigan (9-3)
#11 Navy (10-2) @ #6 Minnesota (10-2)


2020*
#16 UAB @ #1 North Carolina
#9 Oklahoma St. @ #8 Texas

#13 Oregon @ #4 BYU
#12 Tulsa @ #5 USC

#15 Ball St. @ #2 Northwestern
#10 San Jose St. vs. #7 Louisiana

#14 Liberty @ #3 Iowa
#11 NC State @ #6 Miami (FL)


2021
#16 Northern Illinois (9-4) @ #1 BYU (10-2)
#9 Arkansas (8-4) @ #8 Houston (11-2)

#13 Texas A&M (8-4) @ #4 Oklahoma (10-2)
#12 San Diego St. (11-2) @ #5 Wake Forest (10-3)

#15 Utah St. (10-3) @ #2 Oregon (10-3)
#10 Kentucky (9-3) @ #7 Clemson (9-3)

#14 UTSA (12-1) @ #3 Iowa (10-3)
#11 Louisiana (12-1) @ #6 NC State (9-3)
Utah St. upsetting San Diego St. knocked out Minnesota

If I remember correctly, ArkStfan indicated that the ACC/Sunbelt proposal that was presented during the planning process for the new 4-team CFP (around 2012 I believe) had the top 4 in the playoff (just as it is now)---and the remaining 16 teams in the top 20 arranged into 8 geographically appropriate CFP branded bowls. The Selection Committee would have determined the match ups. I think I would have loved that system. It would have been a lot of fun and would have led to some unusual and interesting matchups.

(08-04-2022 03:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If we get an expanded playoff, and I think we will, what becomes of the myriad of bowls we have out there?

We’ve already got players skipping them because they don’t see any value in them. Will fans stop seeing value in them as well?

I wonder if we might see the bowls be replaced with little 4-team NIT-Esque tournaments.

If we see a clean break between the P2 and everyone else or the P2/M3 and everyone else would we see a 8/12/16 team NCAA tournament emerge?

I personally would like to see the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and either the Fiesta or Cotton Bowls as permanent quarterfinal sites but then what would become of the Peach, Holiday, Citrus, Texas, Outback, Gator, etc?

First thing they need to do is drastically reduce the number of bowls. There are way too many. There are supposed to be 44 bowl games this year alone. That’s way too much. They’ve added 21 bowls since 2001. And on Wiki there are nine more future games proposed. Making it to a bowl game used to mean a lot more. Now if you’re 6-6, you’re bowl eligible. And some 5-7 teams make it also. The more they add, the more interest wanes. Couple that with the playoff, and anything outside the playoff is less meaningful.

They could also take sponsors off of bowl names, especially the dot coms. There is a reason the Super Bowl is not called the Galleryfurniture.com Super Bowl. Because it cheapens it. Get the sponsors off the bowl game names.

They need to find creative ways to add meaning to the bowl games, but that’s next to impossible with the amount of games.

(08-05-2022 12:15 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 08:08 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 03:54 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 03:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If we get an expanded playoff, and I think we will, what becomes of the myriad of bowls we have out there?

We’ve already got players skipping them because they don’t see any value in them. Will fans stop seeing value in them as well?

I wonder if we might see the bowls be replaced with little 4-team NIT-Esque tournaments.

If we see a clean break between the P2 and everyone else or the P2/M3 and everyone else would we see a 8/12/16 team NCAA tournament emerge?

I personally would like to see the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and either the Fiesta or Cotton Bowls as permanent quarterfinal sites but then what would become of the Peach, Holiday, Citrus, Texas, Outback, Gator, etc?

For me, I had been thinking about a B-tier of 9 bowl games reserved for the remaining CFP Top 25 teams and conference champs that didn't make the 12 team CFP to participate in, but maybe you could turn it into an NIT-like CFP for the 4 remaining conference champs and top 12 at-large teams with the 1st round on Campus, the 2nd round in Bowls, semis in Orlando, and championship wherever the CFP championship is played.

Using the 2022-23 calendar, play 1 game on Monday and Thursday (prior to NFL MNF and TNF) and a couple games each for Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday either the week before or after the quarterfinals, 1 or 2 games on the Dec. 30th and 2 or 3 games on Dec. 31st, then maybe pair up with the CFP semis for a Thursday-Friday doubleheader with the NIT CFP playing in Orlando kicking off at 4:30 PM and the CFP in Vegas following at 8:30 PM. Then play the NIT CFP championship the following Saturday prior to NFL playoffs in the early afternoon with the National Championship game 2 days later.

For what it's worth, matched up a 16 team NIT-like CFP to see what it would look like with the remaining 4 conference champs and top 12 at-large. I'll let y'all look at it to see if it'd be a good idea or better off using them as a B-tier Bowl Games. They are seeded based on CFP Rankings and using the AP Poll for unranked teams.


2017
#16 Troy (10-2) @ #1 Stanford (9-4)
#9 Northwestern (9-3) @ #8 Memphis (10-2)

#13 Boise St. (10-3) @ #4 Michigan St. (9-3)
#12 NC State (8-4) @ #5 LSU (9-3)

#15 FAU/Toledo (11-2) @ #2 Notre Dame (9-3)
#10 Virginia Tech (9-3) @ #7 Oklahoma St. (9-3)

#14 Toledo/FAU (11-2) @ #3 TCU (10-3)
#11 Mississippi St. (8-4) @ #6 Washington St. (9-3)


2018
#16 Northern Illinois (8-5) @ #1 Washington St. (10-2)
#9 Fresno St. (11-2) @ #8 Syracuse (9-3)

#13 Boise St. (11-2) @ #4 West Virginia (8-3)
#12 Iowa St. (8-4) @ #5 Utah (9-4)

#15 UAB (10-3) @ #2 Kentucky (9-3)
#10 Northwestern (8-5) @ #7 Texas A&M (8-4)

#14 Appalachian St. (10-2) @ #3 Texas (9-4)
#11 Missouri (8-5) @ #6 Mississippi St. (8-4)


2019
#16 Miami (OH) (8-5) @ #1 Auburn (9-3)
#9 Cincinnati (10-3) @ #8 Appalachian St. (12-1)

#13 Oklahoma St. (8-4) @ #4 Notre Dame (10-2)
#12 Virginia (9-4) @ #5 Iowa (9-3)

#15 FAU (10-3) @ #2 Alabama (10-2)
#10 USC (8-4) @ #7 Boise St. (12-1)

#14 Air Force/SMU (10-2) @ #3 Michigan (9-3)
#11 Navy (10-2) @ #6 Minnesota (10-2)


2020*
#16 UAB @ #1 North Carolina
#9 Oklahoma St. @ #8 Texas

#13 Oregon @ #4 BYU
#12 Tulsa @ #5 USC

#15 Ball St. @ #2 Northwestern
#10 San Jose St. vs. #7 Louisiana

#14 Liberty @ #3 Iowa
#11 NC State @ #6 Miami (FL)


2021
#16 Northern Illinois (9-4) @ #1 BYU (10-2)
#9 Arkansas (8-4) @ #8 Houston (11-2)

#13 Texas A&M (8-4) @ #4 Oklahoma (10-2)
#12 San Diego St. (11-2) @ #5 Wake Forest (10-3)

#15 Utah St. (10-3) @ #2 Oregon (10-3)
#10 Kentucky (9-3) @ #7 Clemson (9-3)

#14 UTSA (12-1) @ #3 Iowa (10-3)
#11 Louisiana (12-1) @ #6 NC State (9-3)
Utah St. upsetting San Diego St. knocked out Minnesota

If I remember correctly, ArkStfan indicated that the ACC/Sunbelt proposal that was presented during the planning process for the new 4-team CFP (around 2012 I believe) had the top 4 in the playoff (just as it is now)---and the remaining 16 teams in the top 20 arranged into 8 geographically appropriate CFP branded bowls. The Selection Committee would have determined the match ups. I think I would have loved that system. It would have been a lot of fun and would have led to some unusual and interesting matchups.

Why didn’t they do that? What stupidity killed that idea I wonder?

ESPiN will still want live games during the holiday week. It will be greatly reduced (duh on my part), but they will be available.

Dunno about anyone else, but I’d rather watch non-conference basketball between blue bloods/interesting teams than bowl games between teams that struggled to get over .500

(08-05-2022 12:34 AM)NoQuarterBrigade Wrote:  

(08-05-2022 12:15 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 08:08 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 03:54 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(08-04-2022 03:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If we get an expanded playoff, and I think we will, what becomes of the myriad of bowls we have out there?

We’ve already got players skipping them because they don’t see any value in them. Will fans stop seeing value in them as well?

I wonder if we might see the bowls be replaced with little 4-team NIT-Esque tournaments.

If we see a clean break between the P2 and everyone else or the P2/M3 and everyone else would we see a 8/12/16 team NCAA tournament emerge?

I personally would like to see the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and either the Fiesta or Cotton Bowls as permanent quarterfinal sites but then what would become of the Peach, Holiday, Citrus, Texas, Outback, Gator, etc?

For me, I had been thinking about a B-tier of 9 bowl games reserved for the remaining CFP Top 25 teams and conference champs that didn't make the 12 team CFP to participate in, but maybe you could turn it into an NIT-like CFP for the 4 remaining conference champs and top 12 at-large teams with the 1st round on Campus, the 2nd round in Bowls, semis in Orlando, and championship wherever the CFP championship is played.

Using the 2022-23 calendar, play 1 game on Monday and Thursday (prior to NFL MNF and TNF) and a couple games each for Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday either the week before or after the quarterfinals, 1 or 2 games on the Dec. 30th and 2 or 3 games on Dec. 31st, then maybe pair up with the CFP semis for a Thursday-Friday doubleheader with the NIT CFP playing in Orlando kicking off at 4:30 PM and the CFP in Vegas following at 8:30 PM. Then play the NIT CFP championship the following Saturday prior to NFL playoffs in the early afternoon with the National Championship game 2 days later.

For what it's worth, matched up a 16 team NIT-like CFP to see what it would look like with the remaining 4 conference champs and top 12 at-large. I'll let y'all look at it to see if it'd be a good idea or better off using them as a B-tier Bowl Games. They are seeded based on CFP Rankings and using the AP Poll for unranked teams.


2017
#16 Troy (10-2) @ #1 Stanford (9-4)
#9 Northwestern (9-3) @ #8 Memphis (10-2)

#13 Boise St. (10-3) @ #4 Michigan St. (9-3)
#12 NC State (8-4) @ #5 LSU (9-3)

#15 FAU/Toledo (11-2) @ #2 Notre Dame (9-3)
#10 Virginia Tech (9-3) @ #7 Oklahoma St. (9-3)

#14 Toledo/FAU (11-2) @ #3 TCU (10-3)
#11 Mississippi St. (8-4) @ #6 Washington St. (9-3)


2018
#16 Northern Illinois (8-5) @ #1 Washington St. (10-2)
#9 Fresno St. (11-2) @ #8 Syracuse (9-3)

#13 Boise St. (11-2) @ #4 West Virginia (8-3)
#12 Iowa St. (8-4) @ #5 Utah (9-4)

#15 UAB (10-3) @ #2 Kentucky (9-3)
#10 Northwestern (8-5) @ #7 Texas A&M (8-4)

#14 Appalachian St. (10-2) @ #3 Texas (9-4)
#11 Missouri (8-5) @ #6 Mississippi St. (8-4)


2019
#16 Miami (OH) (8-5) @ #1 Auburn (9-3)
#9 Cincinnati (10-3) @ #8 Appalachian St. (12-1)

#13 Oklahoma St. (8-4) @ #4 Notre Dame (10-2)
#12 Virginia (9-4) @ #5 Iowa (9-3)

#15 FAU (10-3) @ #2 Alabama (10-2)
#10 USC (8-4) @ #7 Boise St. (12-1)

#14 Air Force/SMU (10-2) @ #3 Michigan (9-3)
#11 Navy (10-2) @ #6 Minnesota (10-2)


2020*
#16 UAB @ #1 North Carolina
#9 Oklahoma St. @ #8 Texas

#13 Oregon @ #4 BYU
#12 Tulsa @ #5 USC

#15 Ball St. @ #2 Northwestern
#10 San Jose St. vs. #7 Louisiana

#14 Liberty @ #3 Iowa
#11 NC State @ #6 Miami (FL)


2021
#16 Northern Illinois (9-4) @ #1 BYU (10-2)
#9 Arkansas (8-4) @ #8 Houston (11-2)

#13 Texas A&M (8-4) @ #4 Oklahoma (10-2)
#12 San Diego St. (11-2) @ #5 Wake Forest (10-3)

#15 Utah St. (10-3) @ #2 Oregon (10-3)
#10 Kentucky (9-3) @ #7 Clemson (9-3)

#14 UTSA (12-1) @ #3 Iowa (10-3)
#11 Louisiana (12-1) @ #6 NC State (9-3)
Utah St. upsetting San Diego St. knocked out Minnesota

If I remember correctly, ArkStfan indicated that the ACC/Sunbelt proposal that was presented during the planning process for the new 4-team CFP (around 2012 I believe) had the top 4 in the playoff (just as it is now)---and the remaining 16 teams in the top 20 arranged into 8 geographically appropriate CFP branded bowls. The Selection Committee would have determined the match ups. I think I would have loved that system. It would have been a lot of fun and would have led to some unusual and interesting matchups.

Why didn’t they do that? What stupidity killed that idea I wonder?

Take the 12 team CFP + 2 mini 8-team playoffs + current bowl eligibility and you get 51-53 postseason games that can spread out over a month at most

Take the 12 team CFP + 2 mini 8-team playoffs + increase bowl eligibility to 7 wins and you get around 44-46 postseason games that can spread out over a month at most

Take the 12 team CFP + 2 mini 8-team playoffs + increase bowl eligibility to 8 wins and you get around 34-36 postseason games that can spread out over a month at most

Honestly, take out the 6-6 teams and replace them with 8-14 games that matter (playoff games), and make it a little more difficult to become bowl eligible with 7 games. I think we have a reimagined postseason that benefits most.

(08-04-2022 03:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If we get an expanded playoff, and I think we will, what becomes of the myriad of bowls we have out there?

We’ve already got players skipping them because they don’t see any value in them. Will fans stop seeing value in them as well?

I wonder if we might see the bowls be replaced with little 4-team NIT-Esque tournaments.

If we see a clean break between the P2 and everyone else or the P2/M3 and everyone else would we see a 8/12/16 team NCAA tournament emerge?

I personally would like to see the Rose, Sugar, Orange, and either the Fiesta or Cotton Bowls as permanent quarterfinal sites but then what would become of the Peach, Holiday, Citrus, Texas, Outback, Gator, etc?

I've always been interested in the idea of a secondary tournament (like NIT), or multiple secondary tournaments. My only issue would be if they started trying to set them up by conference rather than by performance.

For instance, none of that P2/M4/G4 nonsense. If the #13 and #14 ranked teams are Oklahoma State and Memphis, they should both be in the secondary tournament.