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The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
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WhoseHouse? Offline
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Post: #181
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 12:22 PM)inutech Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:20 AM)Comet Wrote:  they have decent athletic success (have been consistently a top 25 football team in the last few years, not bad at basketball),

Are you sure about that?

8-4
7-3
10-3
5-7
7-6
5-7
(couple of 8-5 seasons as good as it gets between this and 1984)

I guess they got ranked at some point the last couple of seasons, but I don't think they finished there.

Maybe "consistently got ranked in the top 25 at some point during the season for the last 3 years" instead?

I guess that poster thinks being a T-25 team means appearing in the T-25 at some point in the season (which SMU has done the last three seasons) and not actually finishing ranked in the T-25 (which SMU hasn't done since the 80's).
08-02-2022 12:39 PM
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Big Foote Offline
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Post: #182
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 12:22 PM)inutech Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:20 AM)Comet Wrote:  they have decent athletic success (have been consistently a top 25 football team in the last few years, not bad at basketball),

Are you sure about that?

8-4
7-3
10-3
5-7
7-6
5-7
(couple of 8-5 seasons as good as it gets between this and 1984)

I guess they got ranked at some point the last couple of seasons, but I don't think they finished there.

Maybe "consistently got ranked in the top 25 at some point during the season for the last 3 years" instead?

SMU has won more games in Texas the last 3 years than any other university in Texas per the Dallas Morning News and the mayor of Dallas!
2019 10-3 (ranked 8 weeks - highest=15)
2020 7-3 (ranked 6 weeks - highest=16)
*2021 8-4 (ranked 5 weeks - highest=19)
Our team struggled last year after Patterson was fired from TCU; we now know that Sonny knew he was going to TCU that same evening, but did not say anything for 5 more weeks! Unfortunately the rest of the world and his players knew that he was probably leaving. On 9/24/22 SMU will beat TCU for the third straight year ar Ford Stadium!
08-02-2022 12:43 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Online
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Post: #183
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 10:42 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 10:17 AM)Owls9878 Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 10:07 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The Pac-12’s fate will be decided by the B1G, and expanding with one or more MWC schools will do nothing to prevent the B1G from poaching more Pac-12 members if it chooses. At the same time, expanding could make the Pac-12 less desirable to members being courted by the Big 12, since any MWC addition has the potential to dilute per-member payouts and/or make the conference appear less competitive in football.

Under the circumstances it’s hard to see a compelling motivation for the Pac-12 to immediately “relax a bit on the research issue” and pull the trigger on additions from the MWC. Maybe there will be better reasons to do so in a month or a year, but at this moment I see any expansion with MWC schools potentially being more destabilizing than stabilizing.

Great points. I could see SDSU as the one exception since they are a great fit for the PAC, otherwise, all other G5s fail to fit the bill at this point, and possibly ever if the PAC ends up staying at 10 or 11.

Agreed that if there’s any exception it’s SDSU, but only if there’s a strong push from multiple conference members to plant a flag back in SoCal. SDSU doesn’t deliver a meaningful share of the Los Angeles market (which is distinct from and four times larger than the San Diego market), and technically doesn’t fit the current Pac-12 institutionally as it isn’t a state flagship, land grant, or R1 school.

The academic standards when discussing the Pac-12 are being overplayed. The Pac-12 has Washington State, Oregon State, and Arizona State. San Diego State fits in well with those schools academically. I cannot think of one member that would vote against them. They all play SDSU in nonconference. Cal lost to SDSU in San Diego in 2016, 45-40 with over 42,000 fans in attendance. Stanford lost to SDSU in San Diego in 2017, 20-17, with 43,000 fans in attendance. Both games were Saturday Night games at 10:30 EST, that time slot that ESPN likes and only the PAC can fill for them.

The PAC will not find an FBS football program that will be in LA County. That ship has sailed. SDSU's largest percentage of students come from Los Angeles:
https://www.collegetransitions.com/blog/...rsity-sdsu
Let’s now look at the demographics of San Diego State University undergraduates. The 2021-22 freshman class came from the following geographic locations:

Local: 10%
Los Angeles: 26%
San Diego: 14%
Orange County: 12%
Santa Clara: 9%
Riverside: 7%
Alameda: 7%
Out of State: 12%
They don't need to be in LA County. They just need to be in Southern California.
08-02-2022 01:17 PM
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Aztecgolfer Online
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Post: #184
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 11:28 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:27 AM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:20 AM)Comet Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 10:02 AM)Owls9878 Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 09:42 AM)Big Foote Wrote:  The Pac is going to have to relax a bit on the research issue, they are not currently working from a position of stregnth - on the edge of collapse? SMU is in the 5th largest TV market and projected to be 3rd within 7/10 years; SMU is the school of Doak Walker and many other greats - football record for the last 3 years is 25-10 (the most wins of any TX. university over that same period! Academicly SMU is ranked 68 (US News 2022) - #3 in Texas behind Rice and Texas. SMU's endowment is in the area of $2 Billion and finally Geographically SMU sits in the #1 hotbed of recruiting for football. Recent recruiting class was ranked 50 out of 130 and Transfer Portal ranking was 13 out of 130 - great players leave, but then want to get back to DFW!

Problem is, SMU only brings 1 of 4 criteria that Kliavkoff mentioned. And realistically, how much of the DFW market does SMU actually draw? Based on attendance, it doesn’t appear that much.
They have the academics, they have the market, they have decent athletic success (have been consistently a top 25 football team in the last few years, not bad at basketball), and even cultural fit shouldn't be much of an issue. The school is NOT religious and they draw heavily from California for much of the student body.

The biggest knock on SMU is that they have a small student body and alumni base which means historically the school struggles to consistently draw numbers. They've done better in recent years with better marketing though.

One issue with SMU is that you will be at a distinct disadvantage with travel.

Similar to when TCU was in the MWC.

I'd say a bit worse going to the NW.
08-02-2022 01:44 PM
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inutech Offline
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Post: #185
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 12:43 PM)Big Foote Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 12:22 PM)inutech Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:20 AM)Comet Wrote:  they have decent athletic success (have been consistently a top 25 football team in the last few years, not bad at basketball),

Are you sure about that?

8-4
7-3
10-3
5-7
7-6
5-7
(couple of 8-5 seasons as good as it gets between this and 1984)

I guess they got ranked at some point the last couple of seasons, but I don't think they finished there.

Maybe "consistently got ranked in the top 25 at some point during the season for the last 3 years" instead?

SMU has won more games in Texas the last 3 years than any other university in Texas per the Dallas Morning News and the mayor of Dallas!
2019 10-3 (ranked 8 weeks - highest=15)
2020 7-3 (ranked 6 weeks - highest=16)
*2021 8-4 (ranked 5 weeks - highest=19)
Our team struggled last year after Patterson was fired from TCU; we now know that Sonny knew he was going to TCU that same evening, but did not say anything for 5 more weeks! Unfortunately the rest of the world and his players knew that he was probably leaving. On 9/24/22 SMU will beat TCU for the third straight year ar Ford Stadium!

Sure. Fine.

If that's what they're looking for, cool. But he didn't say SMU has won more games in Texas over 3 years. Not sure whether that specific criteria is what the Pac-X will be looking for or not.

And yeah, Dykes is a heck of an offensive mind, but once he's sure he's got that next gig in order. . . things tend to drop off a little. Been there. Sure wish y'all had checked out a little earlier in the season, like right before the last play of the game in Ruston.
08-02-2022 02:16 PM
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Sactowndog Offline
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Post: #186
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 03:20 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 12:36 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(08-01-2022 02:25 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  You have to remember this is the PAC. They will be performing due academic diligence on all the candidates.

Aside from the research level the budget is very important.

Colorado State (1.5 billion)
Hawaii (1 billion)
SDSU (936.7 mil)-2018 number
Boise St (516 mil)-2018 number
UNLV (333.7 mil)
Fresno (286.5 mil)-2017 number
Gonzaga (269.5 mil)-2019 number.

The PAC could very well add Colorado State on the basis of academics alone.

Fresno is behind both Boise/UNLV in this discussion. They have bigger markets. UNLV with Las Vegas and Boise can claim the whole state of Idaho. They have bigger budgets and are legit mid tier research schools. They have bigger operating budget. Lastly but not least they aren't under the thumb of Cal and Stanford as in state CSU schools all are.

If Boise & SDSU have been the top AAC candidates for a decade and near the top of the list for XII I don't see how Fresno has leapfrogged them for a PAC invite.

If the PAC doesn't think Boise's academics cut it you'll see something like Colorado St or Hawaii as an alternative. You won't see UNLV and Fresno ahead of Boise for academic reasons.

Gonzaga is flat out not a PAC level institution. They would be ok for the MWC or G5 league.

Your logic is inconsistent. If you want to go with DMA’s only the ranking is UNLV, Fresno, Boise.

If you want to extend it to a larger area you can’t say Boise owns all of Idaho (a point Vandal fans would contest) and not say Fresno owns the San Joaquin Valley. The affinity maps show this to be true as does which teams have affiliate radio stations in SJV cities (Bakersfield, Fresno, Modesto, Stockton). I would also point out unlike U of I in Moscow (and 8 miles from Pullman) no Pro, FBS, FCS or D2 college football team exists in the SJV. if you say USC owns the valley then why does USC have affiliated radio in Las Vegas, Barstow and Hawaii but not Fresno?

So if we are going broader area the ranking is:
Fresno, UNLV, Boise

As for the PAC choosing based on Academics it is very possible. They have done so before and it’s one reason they are in their current situation. Hopefully our Governor tells Cal and UCLA if the PAC continues to exclude the Cal States based on research dollars he will end their legal monopoly on Doctoral degrees.

If you want to consider Fresno, Boise and UNLV in the same ballpark academically Fresno is at a disadvantage because of the CSU thing.

Boise is it and all there will ever be for the state of Idaho which makes a decent market of 2 million people. UNLV is in Vegas but brushes up against a lot of competition.

Boise has also had a heck of a FB team the last 30+ years. Fresno has had flashes but can't compete across the board in FB success.

Boise is still a significant step behind academically from both Fresno and UNLV. Will they forever be behind? Hard to say and seems unlikely.

What you say about Boise is also true about Fresno and the San Joaquin Valley. Their is no and won’t ever be any college or pro football in the valley but Fresno. And while Fresno’s football success doesn’t match Boise’s, it’s not the worlds apart gap in the past 10 years you want to portray:

MWC Championships:
Fresno has 2 plus 1 tie
Boise has 3* plus 1 tie
SDSU has 2 plus 1 tie
* 2014 Fiesta Bowl appearance

UNLV is not a reasonable alternative given their success and current TV draw. If they aren’t chosen by MWC TV partners over say San Jose State and CSU then why would any network tell the PAC to add them. A team that cannot even get televised it’s main rivalry game on TV has no drawing power.

Will Fresno get in? I doubt it given the history of Cal and Stanford. Buts let’s at least be factually accurate when discussing the pro’s and con’s.
08-02-2022 02:55 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #187
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 02:55 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 03:20 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 12:36 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(08-01-2022 02:25 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  You have to remember this is the PAC. They will be performing due academic diligence on all the candidates.

Aside from the research level the budget is very important.

Colorado State (1.5 billion)
Hawaii (1 billion)
SDSU (936.7 mil)-2018 number
Boise St (516 mil)-2018 number
UNLV (333.7 mil)
Fresno (286.5 mil)-2017 number
Gonzaga (269.5 mil)-2019 number.

The PAC could very well add Colorado State on the basis of academics alone.

Fresno is behind both Boise/UNLV in this discussion. They have bigger markets. UNLV with Las Vegas and Boise can claim the whole state of Idaho. They have bigger budgets and are legit mid tier research schools. They have bigger operating budget. Lastly but not least they aren't under the thumb of Cal and Stanford as in state CSU schools all are.

If Boise & SDSU have been the top AAC candidates for a decade and near the top of the list for XII I don't see how Fresno has leapfrogged them for a PAC invite.

If the PAC doesn't think Boise's academics cut it you'll see something like Colorado St or Hawaii as an alternative. You won't see UNLV and Fresno ahead of Boise for academic reasons.

Gonzaga is flat out not a PAC level institution. They would be ok for the MWC or G5 league.

Your logic is inconsistent. If you want to go with DMA’s only the ranking is UNLV, Fresno, Boise.

If you want to extend it to a larger area you can’t say Boise owns all of Idaho (a point Vandal fans would contest) and not say Fresno owns the San Joaquin Valley. The affinity maps show this to be true as does which teams have affiliate radio stations in SJV cities (Bakersfield, Fresno, Modesto, Stockton). I would also point out unlike U of I in Moscow (and 8 miles from Pullman) no Pro, FBS, FCS or D2 college football team exists in the SJV. if you say USC owns the valley then why does USC have affiliated radio in Las Vegas, Barstow and Hawaii but not Fresno?

So if we are going broader area the ranking is:
Fresno, UNLV, Boise

As for the PAC choosing based on Academics it is very possible. They have done so before and it’s one reason they are in their current situation. Hopefully our Governor tells Cal and UCLA if the PAC continues to exclude the Cal States based on research dollars he will end their legal monopoly on Doctoral degrees.

If you want to consider Fresno, Boise and UNLV in the same ballpark academically Fresno is at a disadvantage because of the CSU thing.

Boise is it and all there will ever be for the state of Idaho which makes a decent market of 2 million people. UNLV is in Vegas but brushes up against a lot of competition.

Boise has also had a heck of a FB team the last 30+ years. Fresno has had flashes but can't compete across the board in FB success.

Boise is still a significant step behind academically from both Fresno and UNLV. Will they forever be behind? Hard to say and seems unlikely.

What you say about Boise is also true about Fresno and the San Joaquin Valley. Their is no and won’t ever be any college or pro football in the valley but Fresno. And while Fresno’s football success doesn’t match Boise’s, it’s not the worlds apart gap in the past 10 years you want to portray:

MWC Championships:
Fresno has 2 plus 1 tie
Boise has 3* plus 1 tie
SDSU has 2 plus 1 tie
* 2014 Fiesta Bowl appearance

UNLV is not a reasonable alternative given their success and current TV draw. If they aren’t chosen by MWC TV partners over say San Jose State and CSU then why would any network tell the PAC to add them. A team that cannot even get televised it’s main rivalry game on TV has no drawing power.

Will Fresno get in? I doubt it given the history of Cal and Stanford. Buts let’s at least be factually accurate when discussing the pro’s and con’s.

If I'm thinking about this in terms of tactical adds who can the PAC add to block future additions by the XII.

The thing with UNLV is the XII could add them and the PAC still has the option of adding Nevada to get a presence in the state. If the XII however signs up Boise the PAC has lost the state of Idaho forever.

PAC should take in Boise, CSU and SMU just so the XII can't get them later and are forced to expand eastward.
08-02-2022 03:10 PM
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Comet Offline
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Post: #188
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 12:22 PM)inutech Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:20 AM)Comet Wrote:  they have decent athletic success (have been consistently a top 25 football team in the last few years, not bad at basketball),

Are you sure about that?

8-4
7-3
10-3
5-7
7-6
5-7
(couple of 8-5 seasons as good as it gets between this and 1984)

I guess they got ranked at some point the last couple of seasons, but I don't think they finished there.

Maybe "consistently got ranked in the top 25 at some point during the season for the last 3 years" instead?
Yeah, that's totally fair. They've had a ton of really good starts and then collapses towards the end lol
08-02-2022 03:45 PM
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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Post: #189
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 03:10 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 02:55 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 03:20 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 12:36 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(08-01-2022 02:25 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  You have to remember this is the PAC. They will be performing due academic diligence on all the candidates.

Aside from the research level the budget is very important.

Colorado State (1.5 billion)
Hawaii (1 billion)
SDSU (936.7 mil)-2018 number
Boise St (516 mil)-2018 number
UNLV (333.7 mil)
Fresno (286.5 mil)-2017 number
Gonzaga (269.5 mil)-2019 number.

The PAC could very well add Colorado State on the basis of academics alone.

Fresno is behind both Boise/UNLV in this discussion. They have bigger markets. UNLV with Las Vegas and Boise can claim the whole state of Idaho. They have bigger budgets and are legit mid tier research schools. They have bigger operating budget. Lastly but not least they aren't under the thumb of Cal and Stanford as in state CSU schools all are.

If Boise & SDSU have been the top AAC candidates for a decade and near the top of the list for XII I don't see how Fresno has leapfrogged them for a PAC invite.

If the PAC doesn't think Boise's academics cut it you'll see something like Colorado St or Hawaii as an alternative. You won't see UNLV and Fresno ahead of Boise for academic reasons.

Gonzaga is flat out not a PAC level institution. They would be ok for the MWC or G5 league.

Your logic is inconsistent. If you want to go with DMA’s only the ranking is UNLV, Fresno, Boise.

If you want to extend it to a larger area you can’t say Boise owns all of Idaho (a point Vandal fans would contest) and not say Fresno owns the San Joaquin Valley. The affinity maps show this to be true as does which teams have affiliate radio stations in SJV cities (Bakersfield, Fresno, Modesto, Stockton). I would also point out unlike U of I in Moscow (and 8 miles from Pullman) no Pro, FBS, FCS or D2 college football team exists in the SJV. if you say USC owns the valley then why does USC have affiliated radio in Las Vegas, Barstow and Hawaii but not Fresno?

So if we are going broader area the ranking is:
Fresno, UNLV, Boise

As for the PAC choosing based on Academics it is very possible. They have done so before and it’s one reason they are in their current situation. Hopefully our Governor tells Cal and UCLA if the PAC continues to exclude the Cal States based on research dollars he will end their legal monopoly on Doctoral degrees.

If you want to consider Fresno, Boise and UNLV in the same ballpark academically Fresno is at a disadvantage because of the CSU thing.

Boise is it and all there will ever be for the state of Idaho which makes a decent market of 2 million people. UNLV is in Vegas but brushes up against a lot of competition.

Boise has also had a heck of a FB team the last 30+ years. Fresno has had flashes but can't compete across the board in FB success.

Boise is still a significant step behind academically from both Fresno and UNLV. Will they forever be behind? Hard to say and seems unlikely.

What you say about Boise is also true about Fresno and the San Joaquin Valley. Their is no and won’t ever be any college or pro football in the valley but Fresno. And while Fresno’s football success doesn’t match Boise’s, it’s not the worlds apart gap in the past 10 years you want to portray:

MWC Championships:
Fresno has 2 plus 1 tie
Boise has 3* plus 1 tie
SDSU has 2 plus 1 tie
* 2014 Fiesta Bowl appearance

UNLV is not a reasonable alternative given their success and current TV draw. If they aren’t chosen by MWC TV partners over say San Jose State and CSU then why would any network tell the PAC to add them. A team that cannot even get televised it’s main rivalry game on TV has no drawing power.

Will Fresno get in? I doubt it given the history of Cal and Stanford. Buts let’s at least be factually accurate when discussing the pro’s and con’s.

If I'm thinking about this in terms of tactical adds who can the PAC add to block future additions by the XII.

The thing with UNLV is the XII could add them and the PAC still has the option of adding Nevada to get a presence in the state. If the XII however signs up Boise the PAC has lost the state of Idaho forever.

PAC should take in Boise, CSU and SMU just so the XII can't get them later and are forced to expand eastward.
It's not tactical to take a team that the other conference never wanted. If the B12 can't take the 4 corners SDSU is the 1 and only tactical add for the B12. It would be like the MAC taking NDSU to prevent the MWC from taking them. We never wanted them. They've had a good team in an empty state w/ no recruiting hot bed.
08-02-2022 03:55 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #190
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 03:55 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 03:10 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 02:55 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 03:20 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 12:36 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  Your logic is inconsistent. If you want to go with DMA’s only the ranking is UNLV, Fresno, Boise.

If you want to extend it to a larger area you can’t say Boise owns all of Idaho (a point Vandal fans would contest) and not say Fresno owns the San Joaquin Valley. The affinity maps show this to be true as does which teams have affiliate radio stations in SJV cities (Bakersfield, Fresno, Modesto, Stockton). I would also point out unlike U of I in Moscow (and 8 miles from Pullman) no Pro, FBS, FCS or D2 college football team exists in the SJV. if you say USC owns the valley then why does USC have affiliated radio in Las Vegas, Barstow and Hawaii but not Fresno?

So if we are going broader area the ranking is:
Fresno, UNLV, Boise

As for the PAC choosing based on Academics it is very possible. They have done so before and it’s one reason they are in their current situation. Hopefully our Governor tells Cal and UCLA if the PAC continues to exclude the Cal States based on research dollars he will end their legal monopoly on Doctoral degrees.

If you want to consider Fresno, Boise and UNLV in the same ballpark academically Fresno is at a disadvantage because of the CSU thing.

Boise is it and all there will ever be for the state of Idaho which makes a decent market of 2 million people. UNLV is in Vegas but brushes up against a lot of competition.

Boise has also had a heck of a FB team the last 30+ years. Fresno has had flashes but can't compete across the board in FB success.

Boise is still a significant step behind academically from both Fresno and UNLV. Will they forever be behind? Hard to say and seems unlikely.

What you say about Boise is also true about Fresno and the San Joaquin Valley. Their is no and won’t ever be any college or pro football in the valley but Fresno. And while Fresno’s football success doesn’t match Boise’s, it’s not the worlds apart gap in the past 10 years you want to portray:

MWC Championships:
Fresno has 2 plus 1 tie
Boise has 3* plus 1 tie
SDSU has 2 plus 1 tie
* 2014 Fiesta Bowl appearance

UNLV is not a reasonable alternative given their success and current TV draw. If they aren’t chosen by MWC TV partners over say San Jose State and CSU then why would any network tell the PAC to add them. A team that cannot even get televised it’s main rivalry game on TV has no drawing power.

Will Fresno get in? I doubt it given the history of Cal and Stanford. Buts let’s at least be factually accurate when discussing the pro’s and con’s.

If I'm thinking about this in terms of tactical adds who can the PAC add to block future additions by the XII.

The thing with UNLV is the XII could add them and the PAC still has the option of adding Nevada to get a presence in the state. If the XII however signs up Boise the PAC has lost the state of Idaho forever.

PAC should take in Boise, CSU and SMU just so the XII can't get them later and are forced to expand eastward.
It's not tactical to take a team that the other conference never wanted. If the B12 can't take the 4 corners SDSU is the 1 and only tactical add for the B12. It would be like the MAC taking NDSU to prevent the MWC from taking them. We never wanted them. They've had a good team in an empty state w/ no recruiting hot bed.

XII does have Boise State near the top of its list.

Fresno State is nowhere to be seen as a XII expansion target.
08-02-2022 04:07 PM
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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Post: #191
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 04:07 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 03:55 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 03:10 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 02:55 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 03:20 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  If you want to consider Fresno, Boise and UNLV in the same ballpark academically Fresno is at a disadvantage because of the CSU thing.

Boise is it and all there will ever be for the state of Idaho which makes a decent market of 2 million people. UNLV is in Vegas but brushes up against a lot of competition.

Boise has also had a heck of a FB team the last 30+ years. Fresno has had flashes but can't compete across the board in FB success.

Boise is still a significant step behind academically from both Fresno and UNLV. Will they forever be behind? Hard to say and seems unlikely.

What you say about Boise is also true about Fresno and the San Joaquin Valley. Their is no and won’t ever be any college or pro football in the valley but Fresno. And while Fresno’s football success doesn’t match Boise’s, it’s not the worlds apart gap in the past 10 years you want to portray:

MWC Championships:
Fresno has 2 plus 1 tie
Boise has 3* plus 1 tie
SDSU has 2 plus 1 tie
* 2014 Fiesta Bowl appearance

UNLV is not a reasonable alternative given their success and current TV draw. If they aren’t chosen by MWC TV partners over say San Jose State and CSU then why would any network tell the PAC to add them. A team that cannot even get televised it’s main rivalry game on TV has no drawing power.

Will Fresno get in? I doubt it given the history of Cal and Stanford. Buts let’s at least be factually accurate when discussing the pro’s and con’s.

If I'm thinking about this in terms of tactical adds who can the PAC add to block future additions by the XII.

The thing with UNLV is the XII could add them and the PAC still has the option of adding Nevada to get a presence in the state. If the XII however signs up Boise the PAC has lost the state of Idaho forever.

PAC should take in Boise, CSU and SMU just so the XII can't get them later and are forced to expand eastward.
It's not tactical to take a team that the other conference never wanted. If the B12 can't take the 4 corners SDSU is the 1 and only tactical add for the B12. It would be like the MAC taking NDSU to prevent the MWC from taking them. We never wanted them. They've had a good team in an empty state w/ no recruiting hot bed.

XII does have Boise State near the top of its list.

Fresno State is nowhere to be seen as a XII expansion target.
1 you have no clue where either are. All we know is the 4 corners are on their list. What was last yr doesn't hold true this yr for the B12. 2 WTF does that have to do w/ the PAC 12 having no interest in BSU? You said B12 should take them as a tactical move. I told you it wouldn't be so you change your story.
08-02-2022 04:19 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #192
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 04:19 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 04:07 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 03:55 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 03:10 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 02:55 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  Boise is still a significant step behind academically from both Fresno and UNLV. Will they forever be behind? Hard to say and seems unlikely.

What you say about Boise is also true about Fresno and the San Joaquin Valley. Their is no and won’t ever be any college or pro football in the valley but Fresno. And while Fresno’s football success doesn’t match Boise’s, it’s not the worlds apart gap in the past 10 years you want to portray:

MWC Championships:
Fresno has 2 plus 1 tie
Boise has 3* plus 1 tie
SDSU has 2 plus 1 tie
* 2014 Fiesta Bowl appearance

UNLV is not a reasonable alternative given their success and current TV draw. If they aren’t chosen by MWC TV partners over say San Jose State and CSU then why would any network tell the PAC to add them. A team that cannot even get televised it’s main rivalry game on TV has no drawing power.

Will Fresno get in? I doubt it given the history of Cal and Stanford. Buts let’s at least be factually accurate when discussing the pro’s and con’s.

If I'm thinking about this in terms of tactical adds who can the PAC add to block future additions by the XII.

The thing with UNLV is the XII could add them and the PAC still has the option of adding Nevada to get a presence in the state. If the XII however signs up Boise the PAC has lost the state of Idaho forever.

PAC should take in Boise, CSU and SMU just so the XII can't get them later and are forced to expand eastward.
It's not tactical to take a team that the other conference never wanted. If the B12 can't take the 4 corners SDSU is the 1 and only tactical add for the B12. It would be like the MAC taking NDSU to prevent the MWC from taking them. We never wanted them. They've had a good team in an empty state w/ no recruiting hot bed.

XII does have Boise State near the top of its list.

Fresno State is nowhere to be seen as a XII expansion target.
1 you have no clue where either are. All we know is the 4 corners are on their list. What was last yr doesn't hold true this yr for the B12. 2 WTF does that have to do w/ the PAC 12 having no interest in BSU? You said B12 should take them as a tactical move. I told you it wouldn't be so you change your story.

Ya, outside of bloggers and talk shows, we (Boise) have not been officially mentioned as a candidate except by the PAC 10-15 years ago in a comment that meant zero.
08-02-2022 05:26 PM
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Big Foote Offline
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Post: #193
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 02:16 PM)inutech Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 12:43 PM)Big Foote Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 12:22 PM)inutech Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:20 AM)Comet Wrote:  they have decent athletic success (have been consistently a top 25 football team in the last few years, not bad at basketball),

Are you sure about that?

8-4
7-3
10-3
5-7
7-6
5-7
(couple of 8-5 seasons as good as it gets between this and 1984)

I guess they got ranked at some point the last couple of seasons, but I don't think they finished there.

Maybe "consistently got ranked in the top 25 at some point during the season for the last 3 years" instead?

SMU has won more games in Texas the last 3 years than any other university in Texas per the Dallas Morning News and the mayor of Dallas!
2019 10-3 (ranked 8 weeks - highest=15)
2020 7-3 (ranked 6 weeks - highest=16)
*2021 8-4 (ranked 5 weeks - highest=19)
Our team struggled last year after Patterson was fired from TCU; we now know that Sonny knew he was going to TCU that same evening, but did not say anything for 5 more weeks! Unfortunately the rest of the world and his players knew that he was probably leaving. On 9/24/22 SMU will beat TCU for the third straight year ar Ford Stadium!

Sure. Fine.

If that's what they're looking for, cool. But he didn't say SMU has won more games in Texas over 3 years. Not sure whether that specific criteria is what the Pac-X will be looking for or not.

And yeah, Dykes is a heck of an offensive mind, but once he's sure he's got that next gig in order. . . things tend to drop off a little. Been there. Sure wish y'all had checked out a little earlier in the season, like right before the last play of the game in Ruston.

Eric Johnson, mayor of Dallas, had an essay posted in the Dallas Morning News on 7/17/22 (Opinion section, Page 3P). His exact sentence was as follows: "SMU football has won 25 games over the past three seasons - the most among NCAA Division I Texas teams - and has been ranked in each of those campaigns, something very few schools can match". He goes on to say "Winners of eight team national championswhips and home to over 100 individual national championw, SMU has advanced all 17 sports to the postseason and has won conference titles across 14 of those sports over the past 13 years.
08-02-2022 06:23 PM
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joeben69 Offline
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Post: #194
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 12:22 PM)inutech Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:20 AM)Comet Wrote:  they have decent athletic success (have been consistently a top 25 football team in the last few years, not bad at basketball),

Are you sure about that?

8-4
7-3
10-3
5-7
7-6
5-7
(couple of 8-5 seasons as good as it gets between this and 1984)

I guess they got ranked at some point the last couple of seasons, but I don't think they finished there.

Maybe "consistently got ranked in the top 25 at some point during the season for the last 3 years" instead?

Are you sure about the seasons you selectively posted above?
What seasons are these records posted above from?

SDSU football has had some lean seasons between 1984 - 2009 but have been solid since 2010 since the Brady Hoke 1 (2009-2010) / Rocky Long (2011-2019) / Brady Hoke (2020-present) eras.

Listed below are SDSU football whether they made bowls and/or were ranked in the Top 25 since 1984. The arbitrary year referred to above. Not included are winning seasons where the team did not go to a bowl.

Year Overall Bowl/playoffs Coaches# AP°
1986 8–4 Holiday 25
1991 8-4-1 Freedom
1998 7-5 Las Vegas
2010 9-4 Poinsettia
2011 8-5 New Orleans
2012 9-4 Poinsettia
2013 8-5 Famous Idaho Potato
2014 7-6 Poinsettia
2015 11-3 Hawaii
2016 11-3 Las Vegas 25 25
2017 10-3 Armed Forces
2018 7-6 Frisco
2019 10-3 New Mexico
2020 4-4 (Covid shortened season)
2021 12-2 Frisco 25

Since 2010: 119-60 (.504)
Since 1986: 3 Top 25 Rankings
1986 AP
2016 Coaches/AP
2021 AP
08-02-2022 09:20 PM
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inutech Offline
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Post: #195
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 09:20 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 12:22 PM)inutech Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:20 AM)Comet Wrote:  they have decent athletic success (have been consistently a top 25 football team in the last few years, not bad at basketball),

Are you sure about that?

8-4
7-3
10-3
5-7
7-6
5-7
(couple of 8-5 seasons as good as it gets between this and 1984)

I guess they got ranked at some point the last couple of seasons, but I don't think they finished there.

Maybe "consistently got ranked in the top 25 at some point during the season for the last 3 years" instead?

Are you sure about the seasons you selectively posted above?
What seasons are these records posted above from?

Pretty sure. And those are the best seasons in a long time.

You sure you know what program was being discussed?





*possibly my fault for editing too far, I just sick of the embedded quotes that go on forever
08-02-2022 09:36 PM
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Post: #196
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
Would an athletics consortium between San Diego State and UC-San Diego be feasible?

Someone who was academically/athletically qualified for UCLA, but didn't want to play in New Jersey ("if I wanted to play football in New Jersey, I would have applied to Princeton") could enroll at UCSD but play for the consortium. There may be some students who could have qualified for UCSD but wanted a better athletic experience so went to SDSU instead.

UCSD would also bring Track&Field, Volleyball, Fencing, Rowing, and Water Polo.
08-03-2022 12:04 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #197
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-03-2022 12:04 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  Would an athletics consortium between San Diego State and UC-San Diego be feasible?

Someone who was academically/athletically qualified for UCLA, but didn't want to play in New Jersey ("if I wanted to play football in New Jersey, I would have applied to Princeton") could enroll at UCSD but play for the consortium. There may be some students who could have qualified for UCSD but wanted a better athletic experience so went to SDSU instead.

UCSD would also bring Track&Field, Volleyball, Fencing, Rowing, and Water Polo.

That's an interesting thought, but let's be real here: if an athlete is getting a scholarship from UCLA in any sport, they're very likely going to have other P5 options if their concern is truly about travel.

I think you're basically saying that UCSD and SDSU should effectively merge into one shared athletic department. That seems quite unlikely and, even if it were somehow allowed (which it probably wouldn't be), as long as the schools themselves are going to be separate entities, it's going to be a compliance nightmare on a number of levels (e.g. Title IX, which school is liable for what situation, academic standards, etc.).
08-03-2022 01:07 PM
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Big Foote Offline
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Post: #198
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-02-2022 11:28 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:27 AM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:20 AM)Comet Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 10:02 AM)Owls9878 Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 09:42 AM)Big Foote Wrote:  The Pac is going to have to relax a bit on the research issue, they are not currently working from a position of stregnth - on the edge of collapse? SMU is in the 5th largest TV market and projected to be 3rd within 7/10 years; SMU is the school of Doak Walker and many other greats - football record for the last 3 years is 25-10 (the most wins of any TX. university over that same period! Academicly SMU is ranked 68 (US News 2022) - #3 in Texas behind Rice and Texas. SMU's endowment is in the area of $2 Billion and finally Geographically SMU sits in the #1 hotbed of recruiting for football. Recent recruiting class was ranked 50 out of 130 and Transfer Portal ranking was 13 out of 130 - great players leave, but then want to get back to DFW!

Problem is, SMU only brings 1 of 4 criteria that Kliavkoff mentioned. And realistically, how much of the DFW market does SMU actually draw? Based on attendance, it doesn’t appear that much.
They have the academics, they have the market, they have decent athletic success (have been consistently a top 25 football team in the last few years, not bad at basketball), and even cultural fit shouldn't be much of an issue. The school is NOT religious and they draw heavily from California for much of the student body.

The biggest knock on SMU is that they have a small student body and alumni base which means historically the school struggles to consistently draw numbers. They've done better in recent years with better marketing though.

One issue with SMU is that you will be at a distinct disadvantage with travel.

Similar to when TCU was in the MWC.

Yes, a little more travel distance, but Dallas is probably the easiest city from an air travel standpoint. DFW is the perfect middle of the country hub airport and Love Field is approx. 5 miles from SMU's stadium.
08-03-2022 02:00 PM
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inutech Offline
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Post: #199
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-03-2022 02:00 PM)Big Foote Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:28 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:27 AM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:20 AM)Comet Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 10:02 AM)Owls9878 Wrote:  Problem is, SMU only brings 1 of 4 criteria that Kliavkoff mentioned. And realistically, how much of the DFW market does SMU actually draw? Based on attendance, it doesn’t appear that much.
They have the academics, they have the market, they have decent athletic success (have been consistently a top 25 football team in the last few years, not bad at basketball), and even cultural fit shouldn't be much of an issue. The school is NOT religious and they draw heavily from California for much of the student body.

The biggest knock on SMU is that they have a small student body and alumni base which means historically the school struggles to consistently draw numbers. They've done better in recent years with better marketing though.

One issue with SMU is that you will be at a distinct disadvantage with travel.

Similar to when TCU was in the MWC.

Yes, a little more travel distance, but Dallas is probably the easiest city from an air travel standpoint. DFW is the perfect middle of the country hub airport and Love Field is approx. 5 miles from SMU's stadium.

SMU used to share a conference with Hawaii (with much less money). They'd make this work if offered.
08-03-2022 02:56 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #200
RE: The San Diego Union-Tribune on SDSU and Pac-12 Expansion
(08-03-2022 02:56 PM)inutech Wrote:  
(08-03-2022 02:00 PM)Big Foote Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:28 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:27 AM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  
(08-02-2022 11:20 AM)Comet Wrote:  They have the academics, they have the market, they have decent athletic success (have been consistently a top 25 football team in the last few years, not bad at basketball), and even cultural fit shouldn't be much of an issue. The school is NOT religious and they draw heavily from California for much of the student body.

The biggest knock on SMU is that they have a small student body and alumni base which means historically the school struggles to consistently draw numbers. They've done better in recent years with better marketing though.

One issue with SMU is that you will be at a distinct disadvantage with travel.

Similar to when TCU was in the MWC.

Yes, a little more travel distance, but Dallas is probably the easiest city from an air travel standpoint. DFW is the perfect middle of the country hub airport and Love Field is approx. 5 miles from SMU's stadium.

SMU used to share a conference with Hawaii (with much less money). They'd make this work if offered.

Yes - for sure. I mean, SMU has just watched the best teams in the AAC leave (UCF, Cincinnati and Houston), has been sharing a market with a TCU program that regained its power status a decade ago, its in-state competitor of Baylor for both athletic recruits and regular students has seen a sports renaissance over the past several years, and is now in a league with UNT and UTSA. I think SMU would *pay* to be in the Pac-12, much less care about the travel time or costs.
(This post was last modified: 08-03-2022 03:07 PM by Frank the Tank.)
08-03-2022 03:06 PM
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