(07-16-2022 11:53 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  We need to merge with somebody good. There's safety in numbers.

G5 thinking please leave that in the AAC thanks

wait the Pac out, by the end of decade, ND buy out will be down to 50 million.
doesn't JR say to make the most money on playoff's, you need the whole country involved.
i don't care what they say, B-10 will build 5 school pod from Pac
[USC, UCLA, Stanford, Wash, Org]

That leaves Cal, ASU, Ariz Utah, Colo for B-12
B-12 can put 3 pods of 6, including Memphis
BYU joins Pac schools.

4 yrs latter SEC graps NC, VA, Clemson, FSU
that will leave Louv, Pitt, Mia, VT, NCST, GT for B-12

(07-15-2022 12:14 PM)Johnny Incognito Wrote:  

(07-14-2022 07:09 PM)EEReducible Complexity Wrote:  

(07-13-2022 04:34 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  

This guy seems pretty plugged in on the pac side and seems to be pushing this idea.How would you feel about a full merger?

Jackson

I think the eventual reality will be a merger of all 3 conferences.....ACC, Big 12, and PAC into one coast to coast league split into 3 conferences.....

EAST
Cincinnati
Louisville
West Virginia
Pitt
Syracuse
Boston College
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
Miami
UCF
USF
and one of ECU, Temple or UAB

MIDWEST
Oklahoma State
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
BYU
Utah
Baylor
Houston
Texas Tech
Texas Christian
SMU
Memphis

WEST
Oregon
Oregon State
Washington
Washington State
Stanford
Cal-Berkeley
Arizona
Arizona State
Colorado
Colorado State
San Diego State
and one from UNLV, Boise State, New Mexico, Utah State

Of course due to academic mission reasons it's possible Stanford and Cal-Berkeley would not pursue this.....but that is my vision of the future, or something very similar.

You may be right. But I think 10 team divisions would be a lot stronger. And something would need done with the eastern division… cause yikes, it’s bad.

What’s the advantage of this over just retaining three conferences?

Full blown merger under the umbrella of Big ?? rwith Yormark as commissioner. Psychologically it tells the PAC who's driving the bus . This guy will get the dollars necessary to make it palatable for all.

There is no sensible way to merge the PAC and ACC. It will essentially remain to separate entities. With the Big/PAC you have a Pacific/left leaning wing but there is a lot of overlap with Zona and some of the Texas schools, or Colorado and the Midwest schools. Not a ton, but a lot of cultural similarity.

The most practical thing to do is to poach 4-6 PAC schools, but I just don't see how the nBig12 pulls that off. That's why I'd lean towards remaining separate conferences at 60-70% or 30-40% chance of a full merger.

Even with 22 teams, you can do 1 protected rival +7/7/6(+1) to cycle through everyone at least 1/3 years H&H. However, this means Stanford vs WVU or Cal vs UC a lot more often as opposed to more immediate neighbors. That's why I'd stress 24 teams with a 4-team conference tournament the last two weeks of the season. The winner could automatically be slotted in a NYD SF game.

(07-16-2022 06:44 PM)Realigned Wrote:  

(07-15-2022 12:14 PM)Johnny Incognito Wrote:  

(07-14-2022 07:09 PM)EEReducible Complexity Wrote:  

(07-13-2022 04:34 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  

This guy seems pretty plugged in on the pac side and seems to be pushing this idea.How would you feel about a full merger?

Jackson

I think the eventual reality will be a merger of all 3 conferences.....ACC, Big 12, and PAC into one coast to coast league split into 3 conferences.....

EAST
Cincinnati
Louisville
West Virginia
Pitt
Syracuse
Boston College
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
Miami
UCF
USF
and one of ECU, Temple or UAB

MIDWEST
Oklahoma State
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
BYU
Utah
Baylor
Houston
Texas Tech
Texas Christian
SMU
Memphis

WEST
Oregon
Oregon State
Washington
Washington State
Stanford
Cal-Berkeley
Arizona
Arizona State
Colorado
Colorado State
San Diego State
and one from UNLV, Boise State, New Mexico, Utah State

Of course due to academic mission reasons it's possible Stanford and Cal-Berkeley would not pursue this.....but that is my vision of the future, or something very similar.

You may be right. But I think 10 team divisions would be a lot stronger. And something would need done with the eastern division… cause yikes, it’s bad.

What’s the advantage of this over just retaining three conferences?

i don't like the concept at all - but, if, technically, all these schools were in one "conference", and the money was distributed (somewhat) evenly, maybe the thought is that it would cut down on the threat / talk / tediousness of league jumping. ie., more stability?

This lineup here below I find more appealing but because ACC being handcuffed to their GOR this option may not be nowhere near doable.

EAST
Cincinnati
Louisville
West Virginia
Pitt
Georgia Tech
Miami
UCF

MIDWEST
Oklahoma State
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
BYU
Baylor
Houston
Texas Tech
Texas Christian
Memphis

WEST
Oregon
Washington
Stanford
Arizona
Arizona State
Colorado
Utah

A full merger could be cool in that it would allow both the Big 12 and PAC-12 to exist largely unchanged and more or less as stand-alone entities. It could also be used to as a way to beef up nonconference scheduling and introduce some pretty creative scheduling conventions that would make the setup unique in all of college football (and potentially more lucrative than what the Big 12 and PAC-12 could do on their own).

If you did something like pods of ...

BIG 12 DIVISION
EAST -- Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, UCF, West Virginia
WEST -- Baylor, BYU, Houston, TCU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State

PAC-12 DIVISION
NORTH(ish) -- California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State
SOUTH(ish) -- Arizona, Arizona State, Boise State (or Fresno State), Colorado, San Diego State, Utah

You could schedule eight "conference" games with five divisional games and three games against the other division in your own league. And then you could play one opponent from each of the crossover divisions as "nonconference" games.

Then you could schedule one of those crossover games in Week 2 or 3 (after one warm-up game against a cupcake) and save the last for the final week of the regular season as a seeded Big 12/PAC-12 challenge, with the top team from each division taking part in the championship semifinals of a four-team conference playoff.

That would be a fun way to end the season for everyone and would allow you to play a four-team conference playoff at the end of the season without adding any additional games.

While I don't think this will happen, I would like this outcome because a) it would preserve a sustainable future for everyone while adding two more G5 programs to the mix and b) it would be really fun, unique and competitive -- all things that I feel are important for the future of any leagues below the P2.

That's literally what I just laid out earlier^^^ not sure BSU makes the cut though but they have as good a chance as anyone. Also believe BYU needs to be moved with Utah/BSU for the scheduling to work out, although it is challenging breaking up the Big 12 into two separate divisions regardless.

The problem is moving BYU into a division where they'd play Stanford and Cal more often. That's one stumbling block I see, but it's not a huge one. There is also the challenge of scheduling a 4-team playoff and adding two G5 teams, and ultimately how it all factors into the playoff.

To setup the playoff, Big 24 league champ gets autobid into a SF game on NYD. B1G and SEC champs also get autobids. The last bid would go to ACC vs ND/G5 QF playoff game. I think that's the most practical way to give everyone access.

(07-17-2022 11:28 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  That's literally what I just laid out earlier^^^ not sure BSU makes the cut though but they have as good a chance as anyone. Also believe BYU needs to be moved with Utah/BSU for the scheduling to work out, although it is challenging breaking up the Big 12 into two separate divisions regardless.

The problem is moving BYU into a division where they'd play Stanford and Cal more often. That's one stumbling block I see, but it's not a huge one. There is also the challenge of scheduling a 4-team playoff and adding two G5 teams, and ultimately how it all factors into the playoff.

To setup the playoff, Big 24 league champ gets autobid into a SF game on NYD. B1G and SEC champs also get autobids. The last bid would go to ACC vs ND/G5 QF playoff game. I think that's the most practical way to give everyone access.

BYU joined the Big 12, not the PAC-12. Unless it was their desire to make that move for easier travel, I'm not throwing them in with a bunch of schools that have rejected them for years.

No merger for me. I would take the first two who jumped from UT, UA,ASU, then hold for UO, and UW. If those last two don't come stop.

(07-17-2022 11:46 AM)Converted Rice Wrote:  No merger for me. I would take the first two who jumped from UT, UA,ASU, then hold for UO, and UW. If those last two don't come stop.

I think we all agree the ACC is going to get gutted soon and when they do your proposal than becomes brilliant because at that point the BIG12 could than invite the 2 - 4 best ACC remaining football/basketball programs.

I like it.

[quote='Converted Rice' pid='18328322' dateline='1658076392']
No merger for me. I would take the first two who jumped from UT, UA,ASU, then hold for UO, and UW. If those last two don't come stop.

/quote]

Any chance that UO and UW go two different directions? Everyone seems to think they are joined together. I'm not so sure of that. For instance, if UCLA backs out of the Big10 for political (stupid) reasons, do you think for an instant that Oregon or Washington wouldn't take UCLA's place?

So maybe Big12 adds 4 only:
1. UA
2. ASU
3. Utah
4. Oregon or Washington

(07-17-2022 09:13 AM)dave108 Wrote:  

(07-16-2022 06:44 PM)Realigned Wrote:  

(07-15-2022 12:14 PM)Johnny Incognito Wrote:  

(07-14-2022 07:09 PM)EEReducible Complexity Wrote:  

(07-13-2022 04:34 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  

This guy seems pretty plugged in on the pac side and seems to be pushing this idea.How would you feel about a full merger?

Jackson

I think the eventual reality will be a merger of all 3 conferences.....ACC, Big 12, and PAC into one coast to coast league split into 3 conferences.....

EAST
Cincinnati
Louisville
West Virginia
Pitt
Syracuse
Boston College
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
Miami
UCF
USF
and one of ECU, Temple or UAB

MIDWEST
Oklahoma State
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
BYU
Utah
Baylor
Houston
Texas Tech
Texas Christian
SMU
Memphis

WEST
Oregon
Oregon State
Washington
Washington State
Stanford
Cal-Berkeley
Arizona
Arizona State
Colorado
Colorado State
San Diego State
and one from UNLV, Boise State, New Mexico, Utah State

Of course due to academic mission reasons it's possible Stanford and Cal-Berkeley would not pursue this.....but that is my vision of the future, or something very similar.

You may be right. But I think 10 team divisions would be a lot stronger. And something would need done with the eastern division… cause yikes, it’s bad.

What’s the advantage of this over just retaining three conferences?

i don't like the concept at all - but, if, technically, all these schools were in one "conference", and the money was distributed (somewhat) evenly, maybe the thought is that it would cut down on the threat / talk / tediousness of league jumping. ie., more stability?

Take all the teams into one conference umbrella will allow unified decision making, rule collaboration, and better control of media contracts and distribution. I say we call it the National Collegiate Athletic Association or NCAA for short.

FYI, No to a full merger with PAC and Big 12. No need to add Oregon St and Washington St.

(07-17-2022 01:10 PM)Endless Purple Wrote:  FYI, No to a full merger with PAC and Big 12. No need to add Oregon St and Washington St.

If you treat it more as a confederation of two leagues than a true merger, the Big 12 wouldn't be adding those schools. They'd just be enjoying the same scheduling perks.

That's actually one of the things I really like about a merger (if done right), is it would basically ensure a sustainable future for the 12-team Big 12 that everyone is currently so excited about. And it would also allow the Big 12 and PAC-12 to exist as standalone (mostly regional) conferences for every other sport, which would be a good thing IMO.

I actually think a merger (again, if done right) would restore some sanity to this realignment process. I think regional conferences still make the most sense for every school not making $100 million a year on media rights and that 12-team leagues still work the best by far for scheduling. A merger in the way I suggested above would keep both intact while modernizing some scheduling practices and maximizing the media inventory (and in turn, TV money) for both the Big 12 and PAC-12.

The Big 12 is just not in a position to poach anyone from the P5 as of now. This was the case prior to USC/UCLA. Nothing has changed since that move. I understand it's the Big 12 forum, but the PAC or ACC could easily add 4-6 Big 12 schools just as the Big 12 can add 4-6 schools from the PAC or ACC. And the latter only in 36' assuming the ACC is severely weakened by then, because 14/14 ACC schools are going nowhere unless it's the B1G or SEC. We can revisit the situation after UNC, Clemson, FSU leave.

I don't see why the PAC wouldn't add KU, OSU, TCU/TTech, and Houston today... if the academics were better in those schools. The fact is, they would, if 2-4 schools were AAU and had solid football programs. We wouldn't be discussing which PAC10 schools get left behind, but which AAC/MWC schools the Big 12 would be backfilling with.

You just don't pass up a chance to be affiliated with Stanford and Cal, if you are Baylor, OSU or any other current Big 12 program. You take a full merger and partner up if that scenario is on the table.

(07-17-2022 01:41 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  The Big 12 is just not in a position to poach anyone from the P5 as of now. This was the case prior to USC/UCLA. Nothing has changed since that move. I understand it's the Big 12 forum, but the PAC or ACC could easily add 4-6 Big 12 schools just as the Big 12 can add 4-6 schools from the PAC or ACC. And the latter only in 36' assuming the ACC is severely weakened by then, because 14/14 ACC schools are going nowhere unless it's the B1G or SEC. We can revisit the situation after UNC, Clemson, FSU leave.

I don't see why the PAC wouldn't add KU, OSU, TCU/TTech, and Houston today... if the academics were better in those schools. The fact is, they would, if 2-4 schools were AAU and had solid football programs. We wouldn't be discussing which PAC10 schools get left behind, but which AAC/MWC schools the Big 12 would be backfilling with.

You just don't pass up a chance to be affiliated with Stanford and Cal, if you are Baylor, OSU or any other current Big 12 program. You take a full merger and partner up if that scenario is on the table.

I mean, you have like 80 million reasons to pass that up if you're any current XII program.

(07-16-2022 06:44 PM)Realigned Wrote:  What’s the advantage of this over just retaining three conferences?

Well, even tho Eerdducable didn’t do it, it could be used to trim the fat. Even tho I said 10, I think 3 8s would be better. Look at the BigHouston’s post above but move Memphis east and BYU west.
7-game round robins for each conference. You could even do 3 conference winners + 1 for semi-finals.
Regionalizing would help with traveling costs for WVU, UC, and UCF.
And overall, that would be a lot of coast-to-coast content for media partners for football and hoops.