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What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5 conference?
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Milwaukee Offline
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Post: #61
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5...
(06-23-2022 06:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-23-2022 03:47 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(06-23-2022 09:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  As for the "new Big 12", I do not think it will be a power conference in a brand value sense, what I regard as the real sense, after TX and OU leave. And I would say that if USF had been invited rather than UCF. The brand-disparity is just too large. I mean, if you look at the B1G and compare it to the nB12, probably the top 10 brands across both conferences would come from the B1G.

BYU wouldn't be one of the top ten brands? I find that hard to believe.

IMO, bigger brands in football ...

Ohio State
Michigan
Penn State
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Michigan State
Iowa

About equal brands

Minnesota
Maryland
Purdue

Lesser brands ....

Indiana
Rutgers

So maybe I overstated it a smidge? Tied for 8tn/9th/10th?

To me, many significantly overstate BYU's brand-appeal in football. They have memories of Jim McMahon vs Eric Dickerson in a 1980 bowl game, or Ty Detmer vs Mighty Miami 10 years later.

But IMO there's a reason BYU has never been in a Power conference, and had to scrabble around dying on the vine of independence the past 10 years after the woeful WAC folded, and now only get a Big 12 invite as that conference loses the pillars that made it a Power league. They just aren't that valuable.

Final 2021-22 Massey Composite rankings:

#3 Michigan
#4 Ohio St.
#5 Oklahoma St.
#6 Cincinnati
#7 Baylor

#10 MSU
#18 Purdue
#20 Iowa
#21 Houston
#25 Minnesota
#27 BYU
#28 Iowa St.

#29 PSU
#31 K State
#46 Texas Tech
#52 UCF

#53 Maryland
#55 WVU
#67 Nebraska
#70 Illinois
#84 Rutgers
#96 Indiana
#101 Northwestern


BYU football teams that have finished in the Final AP Top 25 since 1982:

2021 10-3 #19
2020 11-1 #11
2009 11-2 #12
2008 10-3 #25
2007 11-2 #14
2006 11-2 #16
2001 12-2 #25
1996 14-1 #5
1994 10-3 #18
1991 8-3-2 #23
1990 10-3 #22
1989 10-3 #22
1985 11-3 #16
1984 13-0 #1 National Championship Team
1983 11-1 #7

PSU's bowl record since 2005 (15 bowl games in the past 16 years): 9-6.

.
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2022 07:57 PM by Milwaukee.)
06-23-2022 06:57 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #62
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5 conference?
My fumble. I thought Quo was referencing brands in general and not for football specifically. That would change my thinking regarding BYU. As a general brand (academics and all sports), the BYU brand is very strong.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2022 07:54 AM by bill dazzle.)
06-23-2022 07:47 PM
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Post: #63
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5...
(06-23-2022 10:32 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(06-23-2022 10:10 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(06-23-2022 09:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  As for USF, we've been in the dumps athletically for 11 years, not 4.

Football >>> everything else (just ask those folks who insist Kansas to the B1G is a non-starter).

USF finished 19th in the 2016 poll and 21st in '17 and went to three straight bowl games. I'd wager half of the "P-5" schools (much less those at the "G-5" level) haven't accomplished as much in the last half-dozen years.

Defer to quo vadis or other Bulls fans here, but IMO where USF screwed up was with its arrogant and ultimately shortsighted mindset that "playing in an NFL stadium beats UCF's erector set" ... a stance proven wrong when the Knights zoomed ahead in the rivalry.

Now USF is playing catch-up, which if the administration and stakeholders will follow through, will eventually get the Bulls back on the same plane as their hated neighbors up I-4.

As it should be since -- just like UF and FSU -- USF and UCF are two peas in a pod.

Eh - as an outside observer, I don't think it matters that much. If USF had been the one going to NY6 bowls and having undefeated seasons instead of UCF, then USF would have gotten the invite to the Big 12 even if they were playing at Tropicana Field (much less an NFL stadium). USF does have the benefit of its location in the Tampa Bay market, so that's a buoy to its future Big 12 prospects.

It's hard to argue with the notion that it was the quality of their FB program that got UCF into the Big 12. They'd have been invited to join the Big 12 regardless of whether they were playing in their 44,000 seat "erector set" or in the nearby Citrus Bowl/Camper's World (cap. 65,000) stadium. If they'd just been an average AAC FB program, their invitation might have gone to a more competitive program, such as Boise State.
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2022 10:27 PM by Milwaukee.)
06-23-2022 09:47 PM
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Post: #64
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5 conference?
My picks:

AAC:
-Memphis
-USF

MWC
-CSU
-BSU
-SDSU
UNLV
06-23-2022 10:59 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #65
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5...
(06-23-2022 07:47 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  My fumble. I thought Quo was referencing brands in general and not for football specifically. That would change to thinking regarding BYU. As a general brand (academics and all sports), the BYU brand is very strong.

BYU, while clearly they have very good "brand name recognition" - every college football fan has heard of them - and they are a high quality academic school as well, IMO they are overrated by many on this forum as a school that brings a lot of value to a conference. To me, the proof of that is where BYU has resided in the college firmament all these years. They've always been in either a "G-level" conference, or an independent. And as an independent, their national profile was IMO fading, not growing. The last 10 years have IMO been rough ones for BYU, they were seemingly better off in the old 2000s MW then they were as an independent. They seem to have thought they'd have more brand appeal as an independent than they actually did. They were not thriving as an independent, their brand was receding not advancing, IMO.

So to me, if BYU really did have strong value, they would have been in a P-level league a long time ago, rather than being desperation-backfill for the weakest power league only after that league lost its "powerful" leaders.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2022 07:24 AM by quo vadis.)
06-24-2022 07:20 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #66
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5...
(06-24-2022 07:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-23-2022 07:47 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  My fumble. I thought Quo was referencing brands in general and not for football specifically. That would change to thinking regarding BYU. As a general brand (academics and all sports), the BYU brand is very strong.

BYU, while clearly they have very good "brand name recognition" - every college football fan has heard of them - and they are a high quality academic school as well, IMO they are overrated by many on this forum as a school that brings a lot of value to a conference. To me, the proof of that is where BYU has resided in the college firmament all these years. They've always been in either a "G-level" conference, or an independent. And as an independent, their national profile was IMO fading, not growing. The last 10 years have IMO been rough ones for BYU, they were seemingly better off in the old 2000s MW then they were as an independent. They seem to have thought they'd have more brand appeal as an independent than they actually did. They were not thriving as an independent, their brand was receding not advancing, IMO.

So to me, if BYU really did have strong value, they would have been in a P-level league a long time ago, rather than being desperation-backfill for the weakest power league only after that league lost its "powerful" leaders.

Your points are well made. Perhaps a distinction should be made when we define "brands." There are "conventional brands," which tend to be large public universities with all-around athletics/academics (Michigan, Florida, Texas, Ohio State, UCLA, Alabama, etc.), with a few private universities (Stanford, Miami and USC, for example) included in that group. Then there are what I consider five "unconventional brands": the three military academies, Notre Dame and BYU. Win or lose, fans know of these five. And even if they dislike them ... they respect them. The brand for those five is defined as much by distinctiveness as it is by success.

So even though, as you note, BYU has faced its challenges (and failures) the last few years, that does not mean, IMO, it now lacks a strong brand. I feel the BYU brand remains visible — and still a bit controversial (which is not a bad thing).

As to the future Big 12 and your often posting it will not be "power" in the true sense, I would constructively criticize you, Quo, by noting you should be specific and refer to football. You clearly know the future Big 12 will be a "fully power" in men's hoops. For you to not make this distinction in your posts suggests you are either 1. clueless (which you are not) or 2. are taking some odd pleasure in indirectly jabbing at the future Big 12 (which I'm sure many on the board believe to be the case).

04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2022 08:12 AM by bill dazzle.)
06-24-2022 08:08 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #67
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5...
(06-24-2022 08:08 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(06-24-2022 07:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-23-2022 07:47 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  My fumble. I thought Quo was referencing brands in general and not for football specifically. That would change to thinking regarding BYU. As a general brand (academics and all sports), the BYU brand is very strong.

BYU, while clearly they have very good "brand name recognition" - every college football fan has heard of them - and they are a high quality academic school as well, IMO they are overrated by many on this forum as a school that brings a lot of value to a conference. To me, the proof of that is where BYU has resided in the college firmament all these years. They've always been in either a "G-level" conference, or an independent. And as an independent, their national profile was IMO fading, not growing. The last 10 years have IMO been rough ones for BYU, they were seemingly better off in the old 2000s MW then they were as an independent. They seem to have thought they'd have more brand appeal as an independent than they actually did. They were not thriving as an independent, their brand was receding not advancing, IMO.

So to me, if BYU really did have strong value, they would have been in a P-level league a long time ago, rather than being desperation-backfill for the weakest power league only after that league lost its "powerful" leaders.

Your points are well made. Perhaps a distinction should be made when we define "brands." There are "conventional brands," which tend to be large public universities with all-around athletics/academics (Michigan, Florida, Texas, Ohio State, UCLA, Alabama, etc.), with a few private universities (Stanford, Miami and USC, for example) included in that group. Then there are what I consider five "unconventional brands": the three military academies, Notre Dame and BYU. Win or lose, fans know of these five. And even if they dislike them ... they respect them. The brand for those five is defined as much by distinctiveness as it is by success.

So even though, as you note, BYU has faced its challenges (and failures) the last few years, that does not mean, IMO, it now lacks a strong brand. I feel the BYU brand remains visible — and still a bit controversial (which is not a bad thing).

As to the future Big 12 and your often posting it will not be "power" in the true sense, I would constructively criticize you, Quo, by noting you should be specific and refer to football. You clearly know the future Big 12 will be a "fully power" in men's hoops. For you to not make this distinction in your posts suggests you are either 1. clueless (which you are not) or 2. are taking some odd pleasure in indirectly jabbing at the future Big 12 (which I'm sure many on the board believe to be the case).

04-cheers

Well, two things pop to mind.

1) I like your reference to the military academies and BYU, because I agree they are similar. But I draw a different conclusion there as well - IMO many around here overstate the value of military academies. Yes, they have universal name recognition, but in the past 50 years at least, to me it doesn't translate in to much value. No P5 conference has ever wanted to add a military academy, and military academies do not boost the 'power' quotient of a conference. BYU is similar, IMO, though I think it does bring more brand-heft to a conference than the militaries do.

2) By "power", I mean in a brand sense, which to me is the sense that matters. I think the new B12 will be power-level in terms of performance in both hoops and football. But I don't think that means it will be regarded as a full-power, because it lacks brand tentpoles.

To me, the instructive case here is that of the 2005-2012 Big East, after Miami, VT and BC left. On the field and on the court, it produced fully Power-level results. But it was never regarded as a 'true' power by fans and media, because it lacked brand value. I think the nB12 will be similar.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2022 08:30 AM by quo vadis.)
06-24-2022 08:30 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #68
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5...
(06-24-2022 08:30 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-24-2022 08:08 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(06-24-2022 07:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-23-2022 07:47 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  My fumble. I thought Quo was referencing brands in general and not for football specifically. That would change to thinking regarding BYU. As a general brand (academics and all sports), the BYU brand is very strong.

BYU, while clearly they have very good "brand name recognition" - every college football fan has heard of them - and they are a high quality academic school as well, IMO they are overrated by many on this forum as a school that brings a lot of value to a conference. To me, the proof of that is where BYU has resided in the college firmament all these years. They've always been in either a "G-level" conference, or an independent. And as an independent, their national profile was IMO fading, not growing. The last 10 years have IMO been rough ones for BYU, they were seemingly better off in the old 2000s MW then they were as an independent. They seem to have thought they'd have more brand appeal as an independent than they actually did. They were not thriving as an independent, their brand was receding not advancing, IMO.

So to me, if BYU really did have strong value, they would have been in a P-level league a long time ago, rather than being desperation-backfill for the weakest power league only after that league lost its "powerful" leaders.

Your points are well made. Perhaps a distinction should be made when we define "brands." There are "conventional brands," which tend to be large public universities with all-around athletics/academics (Michigan, Florida, Texas, Ohio State, UCLA, Alabama, etc.), with a few private universities (Stanford, Miami and USC, for example) included in that group. Then there are what I consider five "unconventional brands": the three military academies, Notre Dame and BYU. Win or lose, fans know of these five. And even if they dislike them ... they respect them. The brand for those five is defined as much by distinctiveness as it is by success.

So even though, as you note, BYU has faced its challenges (and failures) the last few years, that does not mean, IMO, it now lacks a strong brand. I feel the BYU brand remains visible — and still a bit controversial (which is not a bad thing).

As to the future Big 12 and your often posting it will not be "power" in the true sense, I would constructively criticize you, Quo, by noting you should be specific and refer to football. You clearly know the future Big 12 will be a "fully power" in men's hoops. For you to not make this distinction in your posts suggests you are either 1. clueless (which you are not) or 2. are taking some odd pleasure in indirectly jabbing at the future Big 12 (which I'm sure many on the board believe to be the case).

04-cheers

Well, two things pop to mind.

1) I like your reference to the military academies and BYU, because I agree they are similar. But I draw a different conclusion there as well - IMO many around here overstate the value of military academies. Yes, they have universal name recognition, but in the past 50 years at least, to me it doesn't translate in to much value. No P5 conference has ever wanted to add a military academy, and military academies do not boost the 'power' quotient of a conference. BYU is similar, IMO, though I think it does bring more brand-heft to a conference than the militaries do.

2) By "power", I mean in a brand sense, which to me is the sense that matters. I think the new B12 will be power-level in terms of performance in both hoops and football. But I don't think that means it will be regarded as a full-power, because it lacks brand tentpoles.

To me, the instructive case here is that of the 2005-2012 Big East, after Miami, VT and BC left. On the field and on the court, it produced fully Power-level results. But it was never regarded as a 'true' power by fans and media, because it lacked brand value. I think the nB12 will be similar.

I essentially agree with you regarding the fB12 ("f" for "future") — and the comparison to the Big East of 2005-12 is accurate. The main challenge the fB12 in football will have is a lack of a blueblood. That will harm public perception.

We simply disagree on the academies and BYU. Though unconventional brands, I feel they are brands with a sufficient and respectable level of national heft. As a Memphis fan, I was hoping the AAC could have landed Air Force. The "value" with the militaries is intangible and distinctive. Admittedly, many disagree with me on that brand value for the academies.

I've long contended on the board that Memphis men's basketball is a national brand, to an extent, due to the decent level of clout it carries with African-American fans. But, and again, I realize I look at the "brand" topic differently than most posters.

On this theme, I think Liberty can become a brand of sorts (it actually likely already is).
06-24-2022 09:14 AM
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Post: #69
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5 conference?
When Texas/Oklahoma leave for the SEC then possibly SMU/Memphis to the Big 12.
06-24-2022 10:52 AM
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RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5...
XII's pick up of BYU/UH/UC/UCF is proves they are more concerned with brand/markets over regionalism at their level.

XII might do something to surprise like take Boise St and USF. Boise they may see as the best brand in the MWC and a natural rival for BYU. USF due to its size and rivalry for UCF.

This would really put the MWC/AAC in a bind because they likely couldn't raid from each other or convince an SBC program to join their mess. We might see something like NMSU to the MWC and UTEP to the AAC in this event.

How long CUSA can hold in as a FBS conference is anyone's guess. The WAC was able to last 15 years post split but had the advantage of being able to absorb the Big West where CUSA 4.0 had to scrape together a mix of independents and call ups to hang in.
06-24-2022 10:55 AM
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RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5...
(06-24-2022 10:55 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  XII's pick up of BYU/UH/UC/UCF is proves they are more concerned with brand/markets over regionalism at their level.

XII might do something to surprise like take Boise St and USF. Boise they may see as the best brand in the MWC and a natural rival for BYU. USF due to its size and rivalry for UCF.

This would really put the MWC/AAC in a bind because they likely couldn't raid from each other or convince an SBC program to join their mess. We might see something like NMSU to the MWC and UTEP to the AAC in this event.

How long CUSA can hold in as a FBS conference is anyone's guess. The WAC was able to last 15 years post split but had the advantage of being able to absorb the Big West where CUSA 4.0 had to scrape together a mix of independents and call ups to hang in.

XII could also add San Diego St and Fresno St to form a four team western bloc in a 16 team league. That would do a lot more damage to the MWC/AAC.
06-24-2022 11:00 AM
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RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5...
(06-24-2022 11:00 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-24-2022 10:55 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  XII's pick up of BYU/UH/UC/UCF is proves they are more concerned with brand/markets over regionalism at their level.

XII might do something to surprise like take Boise St and USF. Boise they may see as the best brand in the MWC and a natural rival for BYU. USF due to its size and rivalry for UCF.

This would really put the MWC/AAC in a bind because they likely couldn't raid from each other or convince an SBC program to join their mess. We might see something like NMSU to the MWC and UTEP to the AAC in this event.

How long CUSA can hold in as a FBS conference is anyone's guess. The WAC was able to last 15 years post split but had the advantage of being able to absorb the Big West where CUSA 4.0 had to scrape together a mix of independents and call ups to hang in.

XII could also add San Diego St and Fresno St to form a four team western bloc in a 16 team league. That would do a lot more damage to the MWC/AAC.

MWC could still pull NMSU/UTEP and keep its regional model. Even if they lost 4 to the XII, NMSU/UTEP would put them back at 10.

I'm more worried about CUSA going the way of the dodo. Karl Benson realized there was more FBS upgrades available in the south compared to what was available in the west but the well for that appears to be running dry.

Could CUSA end up as a cluster of former OVC schools?
06-24-2022 11:32 AM
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Post: #73
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5...
.

The day may come when the American will realize that it will have to add North Dakota State in order to remain competitive with the MWC and SBC.

Mark my word: whichever conference seizes the opportunity to add NDSU may emerge as the king of the G5.

.
06-25-2022 06:42 AM
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RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5...
(06-25-2022 06:42 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  The day may come when the American will realize that it will have to add North Dakota State in order to remain competitive with the MWC and SBC.

Mark my word: whichever conference seizes the opportunity to add NDSU may emerge as the king of the G5.

Do you think NDSU remains in I-AA because:

The Bison like being undisputed kings of the mountain

or

No "G-5" conference has indicated NDSU would be accepted if it were to apply?
06-25-2022 07:33 AM
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RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5 conference?
BYU’s lack of power conference membership over the years is a distinct case compared to the service academies or really any other school.

They are a classic reflection that university presidents make conference realignment decisions as opposed to sports fans.

While I wouldn’t call BYU a marquee brand in college football, I would say that its brand, performance, TV ratings and attendance over the years are all very consistent with being at least a median level power conference school.

The entire reason why BYU didn’t find a power conference home until last year had to do with completely non-athletic and even non-financial factors. It wasn’t so much of BYU being a religious school in and of itself (as evidenced by the desire of everyone to get Notre Dame and the existence of Baylor in the Big 12), but a multitude of non-starter positions over the years, whether it was the LDS Church effectively barring Black membership until 1978 to more recent school policies that were targeted against members of the LGBTQ+ community. BYU could win the next 10 straight national championships and be the most-watched team in college football and the Pac-12 presidents still wouldn’t invite that school. There’s no universe where Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA and USC vote to be in the same football conference as BYU regardless of performance or money. BYU is simply a very unique case when it comes to realignment - they really defy a lot of the traditional ways that we look at conference moves because it’s really a one-of-a-kind institution.
06-25-2022 07:38 AM
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Post: #76
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5...
(06-25-2022 07:33 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(06-25-2022 06:42 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  The day may come when the American will realize that it will have to add North Dakota State in order to remain competitive with the MWC and SBC.

Mark my word: whichever conference seizes the opportunity to add NDSU may emerge as the king of the G5.

Do you think NDSU remains in I-AA because:

The Bison like being undisputed kings of the mountain

or

No "G-5" conference has indicated NDSU would be accepted if it were to apply?

I think it's a combination of the first thing and one other thing - I think NDSU know that G5 membership just doesn't pay off the way their FCS status does. G5 would raise costs significantly while not raising attendance much, and while NDSU is noteworthy as "King of the FCS Hill" they could very well get lost in the crowd in a G5.
06-25-2022 07:46 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #77
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5 conference?
Frank's point about BYU is spot-on.

In short, BYU could have the highest level of brand — yet still not get invited to any future variation of the Pac-12, SEC or Big Ten due to factors that are not present with other universities.

Again: I define brand in a much broader and more unconventional manner (placing more emphasis on "intangibles," for example) than many on this board do.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2022 10:07 AM by bill dazzle.)
06-25-2022 10:06 AM
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AztecEmpire Offline
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Post: #78
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5 conference?
Despite a poorly sourced medium article, SDSU actually has some of the highest ratings for nationally televised games at the G5 level. It’s going to be SDSU/Boise/Memphis who have a real chance but my money is on SDSU and Boise.

MW tv ratings averages
06-25-2022 10:57 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #79
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5...
(06-25-2022 10:06 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Frank's point about BYU is spot-on.

In short, BYU could have the highest level of brand — yet still not get invited to any future variation of the Pac-12, SEC or Big Ten due to factors that are not present with other universities.

Again: I define brand in a much broader and more unconventional manner (placing more emphasis on "intangibles," for example) than many on this board do.

About the bolded, that may be true, but it also may be true that, absent any of the stigma about their Mormon faith, BYU simply doesn't have the brand value to be of much interest to those Power leagues. That's my view.

I mean, this is a program that went Independent and was making (IIRC) about $5m a year from its TV deal, and had a tie-in with the prestigious Independence Bowl in the Utah back yard of Shreveport, Louisiana.

That just doesn't scream "significant brand value" to me. And that is a measure that seems independent of conference stigma.

Now sure, someone can say "well what would Iowa get if they went Independent"? But to me that's beside the point, because Iowa is in fact in the B1G and is valued by the B1G at much more than that.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2022 11:28 AM by quo vadis.)
06-25-2022 11:25 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #80
RE: What G5's have a "decent" chance of getting an all-sports invite to a P5...
(06-25-2022 11:25 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-25-2022 10:06 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Frank's point about BYU is spot-on.

In short, BYU could have the highest level of brand — yet still not get invited to any future variation of the Pac-12, SEC or Big Ten due to factors that are not present with other universities.

Again: I define brand in a much broader and more unconventional manner (placing more emphasis on "intangibles," for example) than many on this board do.

About the bolded, that may be true, but it also may be true that, absent any of the stigma about their Mormon faith, BYU simply doesn't have the brand value to be of much interest to those Power leagues. That's my view.

I mean, this is a program that went Independent and was making (IIRC) about $5m a year from its TV deal, and had a tie-in with the prestigious Independence Bowl in the Utah back yard of Shreveport, Louisiana.

That just doesn't scream "significant brand value" to me. And that is a measure that seems independent of conference stigma.

Now sure, someone can say "well what would Iowa get if they went Independent"? But to me that's beside the point, because Iowa is in fact in the B1G and is valued by the B1G at much more than that.

If one defines brand, in large part, by dollars, you are likely correct, Quo. Obviously, I don't take that approach in defining brand (though the example you give is an important factor among many characteristics, no doubt).

BYU offers all the trappings of a "power" athletics program overall: extremely nice facilities, well-paid and talented coaches, a large fan base, success in many sports, ability to lure top-notch student-athletes, etc. BYU athletics from top to bottom is every bit as "power" as my Vanderbilt Commodore athletics program (notwithstanding league affiliation). That's how I see it. Others do not.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2022 12:07 PM by bill dazzle.)
06-25-2022 12:07 PM
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