(06-22-2022 03:21 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(06-22-2022 01:19 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  You know, I had typed out responses to a lot of your post. But in the end, if you believe this, it's all pointless. The MAAC lost Monmouth and added Mount St. Mary's. And you think the MAAC came out almost even?

Yes. Monmouth is a football school that made a football decision, moving to a conference that reaches further to the South. The MAAC could have just stayed at 10 and been fine, but the Mount is a consistently good basketball program and gets the MAAC closer to those Mid-Atlantic metro regions that are certainly good for recruiting. Monmouth and Stony Brook are decent basketball adds, but Hampton and North Carolina A&T? There’s no definitive pecking order here, just different priorities.

This is a heck of a spin. Kudos. I wish Siena the best of luck.

I guess ostensibly Mt St Mary's is in the DC metro, but the school is in the middle of nowhere. I'd pass by it on the drive home from college, it's a solid 20 minute stretch of highway on either side of it before you get to anything resembling a town. The highway also sorta seemed to cut through the campus too

Another article about Howard decision to not move to CAA or NEC

References other outreach to MEAC schools

https://hbcugameday.com/2022/06/23/why-h...-the-meac/

Sounds like they are going to give this MEAC a try, but if it doesn't work out everyone is going to keep their options open

I think the cultural shift for a school like Howard into the CAA is turning out to be more concerning than many posters or consultants may have expected. I ran into this article on the HBCU board - this coming from NC A&T which is already a couple years removed from the MEAC.

If you’re Howard - a fan, an alumnus, administrator - you really have to consider if sticking together - as in the HBCU world - is really preferable. HBCUs are getting growing attention from the media and government and these are financial gains as well.

I tend to think this flirtation between the CAA and Howard is over. I don’t think it’s really in the better interest of either party looking ahead. You can’t force fit these things.


Aggies fans miss the MEAC​


Students and fans at N.C. A&T say they miss the traditional HBCU football weekends, where they could fellowship, trash-talk and generally socialize with familiar foes who shared a similar culture.

The homecoming game – a Big South loss to Monmouth – did not have the same energy of past renditions of GHOE, the Aggies’ Greatest Homecoming on Earth, according to junior journalism major Alexis Black, co-president of the campus chapter of Associated Press Sports Editors and a cheerleader at N.C. A&T.

“When we played [N.C.] Central at home, I could feel the excitement; I could feel the crowd,” Black said.

“Then, at homecoming, when we played Monmouth, I felt nothing. The Hampton game was really fun, too, but when we played the white schools, we just didn’t know what to expect.”

So, are school administrators overselling to fans and students their reasons for moving to predominantly white conferences? The geographic footprint argument does not appear to be sound, such as when a MEAC school trades visits to Bethune-Cookman and Florida A&M, both in Florida, for visits to New Jersey (Monmouth), Pennsylvania (Robert Morris) and Florence, Alabama (North Alabama).

(06-23-2022 02:56 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I guess ostensibly Mt St Mary's is in the DC metro, but the school is in the middle of nowhere. I'd pass by it on the drive home from college, it's a solid 20 minute stretch of highway on either side of it before you get to anything resembling a town. The highway also sorta seemed to cut through the campus too

That's a generous definition of the metro area. Emmitsburg, MD is 72 miles from Washington. It's actually closer to Harrisburg, PA (48 miles).

(06-24-2022 09:02 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  I think the cultural shift for a school like Howard into the CAA is turning out to be more concerning than many posters or consultants may have expected. I ran into this article on the HBCU board - this coming from NC A&T which is already a couple years removed from the MEAC.

If you’re Howard - a fan, an alumnus, administrator - you really have to consider if sticking together - as in the HBCU world - is really preferable. HBCUs are getting growing attention from the media and government and these are financial gains as well.

I tend to think this flirtation between the CAA and Howard is over. I don’t think it’s really in the better interest of either party looking ahead. You can’t force fit these things.


Aggies fans miss the MEAC​


Students and fans at N.C. A&T say they miss the traditional HBCU football weekends, where they could fellowship, trash-talk and generally socialize with familiar foes who shared a similar culture.

The homecoming game – a Big South loss to Monmouth – did not have the same energy of past renditions of GHOE, the Aggies’ Greatest Homecoming on Earth, according to junior journalism major Alexis Black, co-president of the campus chapter of Associated Press Sports Editors and a cheerleader at N.C. A&T.

“When we played [N.C.] Central at home, I could feel the excitement; I could feel the crowd,” Black said.

“Then, at homecoming, when we played Monmouth, I felt nothing. The Hampton game was really fun, too, but when we played the white schools, we just didn’t know what to expect.”

So, are school administrators overselling to fans and students their reasons for moving to predominantly white conferences? The geographic footprint argument does not appear to be sound, such as when a MEAC school trades visits to Bethune-Cookman and Florida A&M, both in Florida, for visits to New Jersey (Monmouth), Pennsylvania (Robert Morris) and Florence, Alabama (North Alabama).

I'm surprised that NC A&T didn't do everything to try to keep the NCCU series going. I don't know how you northerners define your football programs, but I do know that we southerners define our football programs by the rivalries that we have.

Two examples: I know of some Alabama and Auburn fans that do not watch any college football games except for the Iron Bowl. It is who they are.
My other example would be with my team: in south Georgia, the only game that really matters is the Florida game, again in south Georgia only.

I would not be surprised for this to be the case for HBCU programs as well. One reason that you don't hear about this coming from Hampton is that they play their two big HBCU rivals, Howard and Norfolk, out of conference. If NC A&T can get NCCU on the OOC schedule, you should hear less of this, IMO.

I feel like Howard permanently has the MEAC hostage now—if they don’t get their way, they leave.

Maybe. The Howard president does want to give the MEAC commish a fair shot though, since apparently he did help her get the job to begin with.

(06-24-2022 06:52 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Another article about Howard decision to not move to CAA or NEC

References other outreach to MEAC schools

https://hbcugameday.com/2022/06/23/why-h...-the-meac/

No offense to the writers, and HBCU Gameday has been pretty much ahead of news with HBCU realignment, however I cast some serious doubt on Morgan St. being heavily pursued by the AE. There are clear reasons for this:

1. On the Men's side, Morgan State only sponsors 3 of the 7 AE sponsored sports. Glaringly, Morgan State does not sponsor two of the three premier AE sports: Lacrosse and Soccer. To add these sports would cost significant funding increases from Morgan State in both facilities, game day operations, travel, salaries, insurance, and scholarships.

2. On the Women's side, Morgan State only sponsors 5 of the 9 AE sponsored sports. Again, they are missing key AE ports in Field Hockey and Women's Lacrosse. Similarly to the Men's side, significant increases and investments would be required to get to where the AE would want them.

3. Academically- the AE takes their academic side quite seriously, not to the PL level...but very seriously. They have rejected various schools over the years and indirectly cited the academic nature of the AE as a reason. Lowell was considered a "risk add" academically, even though they have a phenomenal engineering department.

4. Football- Unless Morgan State was willing to up their football game, which is woefully underfunded, and head to the Big South, they would have a football problem.

5- Finances- Morgan State would need to find $4mm, minimum, per annum to give them a fighting chance. It is precisely for this reason that NJIT (and their unwillingness to add sports) was rejected for about a decade for AE membership.

Reasons why Morgan State would be a good fit:

1- Travel partner to UMBC
2- Large State school
3- Academics- yes, I said earlier that was a problem however, publicly Morgan State has an R1 goal. If they really worked towards that goal, it would be favorable.

In the end, do I think Morgan St. was approached: Sure, why not...they have some good things going for them and due diligence would require the AE schools to look at them. That being said, I find it difficult to believe the AE went hard for them. The three schools that the AE went hard after were Bryant (achieved), Fairfield, and Quinnipiac. If those three joined, the prevailing view was that the AE Presidents would hold their noses and allow entry of CCSU, a school they have continuously rejected. That would have given the AE 12 schools.

(06-24-2022 09:03 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(06-23-2022 02:56 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I guess ostensibly Mt St Mary's is in the DC metro, but the school is in the middle of nowhere. I'd pass by it on the drive home from college, it's a solid 20 minute stretch of highway on either side of it before you get to anything resembling a town. The highway also sorta seemed to cut through the campus too

That's a generous definition of the metro area. Emmitsburg, MD is 72 miles from Washington. It's actually closer to Harrisburg, PA (48 miles).

Mt. St. Mary's is a NE school officially in a Southern state.

Situation like UTEP being western with a home state of Texas.

It makes the Mount a good pickup for a Northeast based conference since they are getting into an extra state rather than a 5th NY or PA school.

(06-24-2022 07:40 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Mt. St. Mary's is a NE school officially in a Southern state.

Emmitsburg is 0.3 miles south of the Mason-Dixon Line, so that's a very technical approach. The de facto Mason-Dixon Line in 2022 is the Potomac River.

(06-24-2022 09:59 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(06-24-2022 07:40 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Mt. St. Mary's is a NE school officially in a Southern state.

Emmitsburg is 0.3 miles south of the Mason-Dixon Line, so that's a very technical approach. The de facto Mason-Dixon Line in 2022 is the Potomac River.

Maybe even Fredericksburg.

(06-23-2022 01:28 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  

(06-22-2022 03:21 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(06-22-2022 01:19 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  You know, I had typed out responses to a lot of your post. But in the end, if you believe this, it's all pointless. The MAAC lost Monmouth and added Mount St. Mary's. And you think the MAAC came out almost even?

Yes. Monmouth is a football school that made a football decision, moving to a conference that reaches further to the South. The MAAC could have just stayed at 10 and been fine, but the Mount is a consistently good basketball program and gets the MAAC closer to those Mid-Atlantic metro regions that are certainly good for recruiting. Monmouth and Stony Brook are decent basketball adds, but Hampton and North Carolina A&T? There’s no definitive pecking order here, just different priorities.

This is a heck of a spin. Kudos. I wish Siena the best of luck.

I’m not saying that Siena hasn’t had bad basketball seasons, but they at least sink resources into the program and *try* to be good.

How’s that Campbell program feeling to you? You got 14 programs all competing for that one bid. Colonial football can be an FCS power conference, but hoops is trending downward. I’ve been saying the Metro Atlantic is lateral to the CAA. We’ll see, it’s possible I was being overly kind.

(08-13-2022 08:27 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(06-23-2022 01:28 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  

(06-22-2022 03:21 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(06-22-2022 01:19 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  You know, I had typed out responses to a lot of your post. But in the end, if you believe this, it's all pointless. The MAAC lost Monmouth and added Mount St. Mary's. And you think the MAAC came out almost even?

Yes. Monmouth is a football school that made a football decision, moving to a conference that reaches further to the South. The MAAC could have just stayed at 10 and been fine, but the Mount is a consistently good basketball program and gets the MAAC closer to those Mid-Atlantic metro regions that are certainly good for recruiting. Monmouth and Stony Brook are decent basketball adds, but Hampton and North Carolina A&T? There’s no definitive pecking order here, just different priorities.

This is a heck of a spin. Kudos. I wish Siena the best of luck.

I’m not saying that Siena hasn’t had bad basketball seasons, but they at least sink resources into the program and *try* to be good.

How’s that Campbell program feeling to you? You got 14 programs all competing for that one bid. Colonial football can be an FCS power conference, but hoops is trending downward. I’ve been saying the Metro Atlantic is lateral to the CAA. We’ll see, it’s possible I was being overly kind.

Look who's back out of the woodwork! The Campbell add is fine because it crystallizes a condensed northern division of Towson, Delaware, Drexel, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Hofstra, and Northeastern, which are all schools I would rather be in a conference with than any MAAC school except for Iona. Keep clinging to the autobid though, that's really the only thing you have at this point. I look forward to seeing Siena earning its first autobid in over a decade.

(08-13-2022 10:28 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  

(08-13-2022 08:27 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(06-23-2022 01:28 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  

(06-22-2022 03:21 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(06-22-2022 01:19 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  You know, I had typed out responses to a lot of your post. But in the end, if you believe this, it's all pointless. The MAAC lost Monmouth and added Mount St. Mary's. And you think the MAAC came out almost even?

Yes. Monmouth is a football school that made a football decision, moving to a conference that reaches further to the South. The MAAC could have just stayed at 10 and been fine, but the Mount is a consistently good basketball program and gets the MAAC closer to those Mid-Atlantic metro regions that are certainly good for recruiting. Monmouth and Stony Brook are decent basketball adds, but Hampton and North Carolina A&T? There’s no definitive pecking order here, just different priorities.

This is a heck of a spin. Kudos. I wish Siena the best of luck.

I’m not saying that Siena hasn’t had bad basketball seasons, but they at least sink resources into the program and *try* to be good.

How’s that Campbell program feeling to you? You got 14 programs all competing for that one bid. Colonial football can be an FCS power conference, but hoops is trending downward. I’ve been saying the Metro Atlantic is lateral to the CAA. We’ll see, it’s possible I was being overly kind.

. I look forward to seeing Siena earning its first autobid in over a decade.

It's been a long-time for them, while Albany has collected 3 bids in the last decade. (Yes, hijacking for a moment because anytime an Albany fan has the chance to deride / poke fun at Siena...we take it).

(08-13-2022 10:28 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  Look who's back out of the woodwork! The Campbell add is fine because it crystallizes a condensed northern division of Towson, Delaware, Drexel, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Hofstra, and Northeastern, which are all schools I would rather be in a conference with than any MAAC school except for Iona. Keep clinging to the autobid though, that's really the only thing you have at this point. I look forward to seeing Siena earning its first autobid in over a decade.

I love the idea that Drexel playing Campbell every year does anything to make a “condensed northern division” that you weren’t already getting from the previous permanent rivals structure. You told me the CAA wasn’t a Southern-focused football conference and then they go and add another Southern football school with very little basketball program to speak of. Iona’s had a great basketball program, but I’m surprised that you don’t want to be associated with Fairfield anymore when that was going to be such an obvious choice before. I actually think the CAA’s lack of basketball focus and bad geography are bigger points than the competition for the autobid, but they’re all in there. And Siena did get the 2020 AQ and would’ve had the 2021 NIT AQ, but Covid got in the way. But *that* isn’t really the point, because my ability to analyze conference business decisions doesn’t hinge on whether Siena wins.

And to my UAlbany fan friend, I think the CAA missed a big opportunity not going hard after the Danes as an all-sports add. With some of their recent adds though, you’re dodging a bullet. I look forward to the rivalry resuming, even neutral basketball fans would enjoy “The Capital Region’s Most Popular Human Sporting Event.”

(08-13-2022 11:47 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(08-13-2022 10:28 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  Look who's back out of the woodwork! The Campbell add is fine because it crystallizes a condensed northern division of Towson, Delaware, Drexel, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Hofstra, and Northeastern, which are all schools I would rather be in a conference with than any MAAC school except for Iona. Keep clinging to the autobid though, that's really the only thing you have at this point. I look forward to seeing Siena earning its first autobid in over a decade.

I love the idea that Drexel playing Campbell every year does anything to make a “condensed northern division” that you weren’t already getting from the previous permanent rivals structure. You told me the CAA wasn’t a Southern-focused football conference and then they go and add another Southern football school with very little basketball program to speak of. Iona’s had a great basketball program, but I’m surprised that you don’t want to be associated with Fairfield anymore when that was going to be such an obvious choice before. I actually think the CAA’s lack of basketball focus and bad geography are bigger points than the competition for the autobid, but they’re all in there. And Siena did get the 2020 AQ and would’ve had the 2021 NIT AQ, but Covid got in the way. But *that* isn’t really the point, because my ability to analyze conference business decisions doesn’t hinge on whether Siena wins.

And to my UAlbany fan friend, I think the CAA missed a big opportunity not going hard after the Danes as an all-sports add. With some of their recent adds though, you’re dodging a bullet. I look forward to the rivalry resuming, even neutral basketball fans would enjoy “The Capital Region’s Most Popular Human Sporting Event.”

I would not mind having Fairfield, but they would certainly be my eighth-favorite school of the northern division.

You have to understand that the MAAC and CAA North have different end goals. One conference wants to be a basketball-focused conference of small, private schools, both rural and urban. The other wants to be a multi-sports-focused conference of urban, mostly mid-sized institutions. Drexel does not belong in the MAAC, and Siena does not belong in the CAA, and that's for the best for both institutions.

The CAA South wasn't going to go for another northern addition until the 7th southern team got admitted.

Now that both sides have 7 teams, if expansion to 16, 8 on each side, is desired Albany would probably be on the short list for CAA North

Both divisions are now practically bus leagues

(08-14-2022 10:18 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  I would not mind having Fairfield, but they would certainly be my eighth-favorite school of the northern division.

You have to understand that the MAAC and CAA North have different end goals. One conference wants to be a basketball-focused conference of small, private schools, both rural and urban. The other wants to be a multi-sports-focused conference of urban, mostly mid-sized institutions. Drexel does not belong in the MAAC, and Siena does not belong in the CAA, and that's for the best for both institutions.

Rural? Literally just the Mount is rural. Campbell’s rural too. And at least the Mount has a decent basketball program. What would you say is Drexel’s revenue sport other than basketball? You’re in a good lacrosse conference but I wouldn’t say that’s been capitalized on. It’s OK to focus on basketball, or it’s at least better than letting football drive the bus (for many long hours).