(06-16-2022 11:44 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  This study uses flawed 2011 data from the NYT. It was flawed when the NYT first released it and it’s flawed now. Ohio State has a lot of fans but almost 2 1/2 times more than Alabama… come on.

Just doing a cursory review it looks like he gave northern schools a bump and undervalued southern schools. Then I read his bio: He went to school at SC and Penn. Living now in NYC.

His bio reveals he’s spent not one minute in the south and his report reflects that. This young man needs to get out more.

this guy is a consultant who sells his services to conferences/institutions on how to grow their fanbase. You ever met an insurance salesman who didn't think you were underinsured?

I'm guessing southern schools probably contract him more so he has an incentive to undervalue.

(06-15-2022 09:26 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 09:19 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  The NewBigXII will have just a smidge fewer fans/school than the OldBigEast. It also lacks a single anchor program. In many ways the new BigXII is a reincarnation of the OldBigEast.

Meh, there are a lot more fans. Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Texas Tech ,WVU and BYU all have 55K+ butts in the seat on game day; K-State has 50K+; and TCU, Baylor and UCF will all have around 45K. Even UC and UH will get to the 40,000 number. There are no school's in professional stadiums announcing 40K+ with only ~20K butts in the seat.

Agreed. In the old BE, post Miami, WVU had the best football fan base. And the 2 best programs were WVU and Cincy (Ville and Pitt not too far behind). Most of the new Big 12 games are going to be sellouts or close to it.

(06-16-2022 12:18 PM)Kyle Mack Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 09:26 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 09:19 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  The NewBigXII will have just a smidge fewer fans/school than the OldBigEast. It also lacks a single anchor program. In many ways the new BigXII is a reincarnation of the OldBigEast.

Meh, there are a lot more fans. Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Texas Tech ,WVU and BYU all have 55K+ butts in the seat on game day; K-State has 50K+; and TCU, Baylor and UCF will all have around 45K. Even UC and UH will get to the 40,000 number. There are no school's in professional stadiums announcing 40K+ with only ~20K butts in the seat.

Agreed. In the old BE, post Miami, WVU had the best football fan base. And the 2 best programs were WVU and Cincy (Ville and Pitt not too far behind). Most of the new Big 12 games are going to be sellouts or close to it.

Pre expansion the Big East had normally strong teams in Miami, Cuse, WVU and VTech...and sometimes BC

It was a much stronger league than many give credit to it.

(06-14-2022 03:01 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Syracuse having the 14th largest fanbase isn't sus. Half of the New York's population (upstate and Western NY) roots for them. 8-9 million people.

Even if true, they don't attend or watch the football games. Syracuse's average attendance is in the low 40Ks, less than Baylor, Georgia Tech, Colorado, UCF, and many others with fan bases that are, apparently, significantly fewer fans. It's hard to find any TV viewership data for Syracuse, except for when they play Clemson or Florida State.

(06-15-2022 09:26 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 09:19 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  The NewBigXII will have just a smidge fewer fans/school than the OldBigEast. It also lacks a single anchor program. In many ways the new BigXII is a reincarnation of the OldBigEast.

Meh, there are a lot more fans. Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Texas Tech ,WVU and BYU all have 55K+ butts in the seat on game day; K-State has 50K+; and TCU, Baylor and UCF will all have around 45K. Even UC and UH will get to the 40,000 number. There are no school's in professional stadiums announcing 40K+ with only ~20K butts in the seat.

This.

The new Big 12 isn't lacking for passion. The facilities and fan bases are just smaller than the SEC and B1G. After OU and UT leave, the largest stadium remaining belongs to Iowa State, with a capacity of 61,000. However, BYU is coming in with a 63,000 seat stadium.

But, the new Big 12 fills those 40-60K seat stadiums. Only KU struggles at the gate, for obvious reasons.

(06-16-2022 10:52 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 03:24 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  A better breakdown would be an equation that combines actual stadium attendance, average ticket price, and TV ratings.

There are definitely some head-scratching outliers with this data set.

TV ratings are easily affected by opponent, time, outlet and record of said team.

That said certain teams always grab great ratings.

And what determines time of game? Well TV contracts which is determined mainly by contract but which teams get the best slots (times/networks)? Popularity. The Ohio States and Michigans make more appearances on FOX and ABC, Big Noon Saturday and SNF, and Rutgers plays many games on BTN. In the SEC, Alabama and (at least last year) Georgia get the CBS games, I can't remember the last time I saw Vanderbilt on CBS.

(06-16-2022 04:59 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(06-16-2022 10:52 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 03:24 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  A better breakdown would be an equation that combines actual stadium attendance, average ticket price, and TV ratings.

There are definitely some head-scratching outliers with this data set.

TV ratings are easily affected by opponent, time, outlet and record of said team.

That said certain teams always grab great ratings.

And what determines time of game? Well TV contracts which is determined mainly by contract but which teams get the best slots (times/networks)? Popularity. The Ohio States and Michigans make more appearances on FOX and ABC, Big Noon Saturday and SNF, and Rutgers plays many games on BTN. In the SEC, Alabama and (at least last year) Georgia get the CBS games, I can't remember the last time I saw Vanderbilt on CBS.

Popular teams with winning records really helps.

Cuse used to get some VG slots in the 90s when they were perennial Top 25 but obviously they only get those slots now when playing a big brand with a great ranking.

(06-16-2022 12:39 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-16-2022 12:18 PM)Kyle Mack Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 09:26 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 09:19 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  The NewBigXII will have just a smidge fewer fans/school than the OldBigEast. It also lacks a single anchor program. In many ways the new BigXII is a reincarnation of the OldBigEast.

Meh, there are a lot more fans. Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Texas Tech ,WVU and BYU all have 55K+ butts in the seat on game day; K-State has 50K+; and TCU, Baylor and UCF will all have around 45K. Even UC and UH will get to the 40,000 number. There are no school's in professional stadiums announcing 40K+ with only ~20K butts in the seat.

Agreed. In the old BE, post Miami, WVU had the best football fan base. And the 2 best programs were WVU and Cincy (Ville and Pitt not too far behind). Most of the new Big 12 games are going to be sellouts or close to it.

Pre expansion the Big East had normally strong teams in Miami, Cuse, WVU and VTech...and sometimes BC

It was a much stronger league than many give credit to it.

Most of them were better together than they are now.

One thing that none of these fan base size studies do, and it irritates me to no end is that they do not do any of them with the NFL team fanbases in the area like show New York State with the Syracuse Orange, Army, and the Buffalo Bulls with the New York Giants and the Buffalo Bills or the state of Nevada with Las Vegas Raiders, Nevada Wolfpack, and UNLV Rebels.

(06-17-2022 06:43 PM)Porcine Wrote:  

(06-16-2022 12:39 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-16-2022 12:18 PM)Kyle Mack Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 09:26 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 09:19 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  The NewBigXII will have just a smidge fewer fans/school than the OldBigEast. It also lacks a single anchor program. In many ways the new BigXII is a reincarnation of the OldBigEast.

Meh, there are a lot more fans. Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Texas Tech ,WVU and BYU all have 55K+ butts in the seat on game day; K-State has 50K+; and TCU, Baylor and UCF will all have around 45K. Even UC and UH will get to the 40,000 number. There are no school's in professional stadiums announcing 40K+ with only ~20K butts in the seat.

Agreed. In the old BE, post Miami, WVU had the best football fan base. And the 2 best programs were WVU and Cincy (Ville and Pitt not too far behind). Most of the new Big 12 games are going to be sellouts or close to it.

Pre expansion the Big East had normally strong teams in Miami, Cuse, WVU and VTech...and sometimes BC

It was a much stronger league than many give credit to it.

Most of them were better together than they are now.

You have to consider when schools stopped playing familiar opponents/rivals, fan interest goes down. I lost a lot of interest in Temple men's basketball once they joined the AAC. These Big East schools used to play a lot of regional opponents and are now playing a lot of further away opponents (especially West Virginia).

(06-20-2022 05:20 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 06:43 PM)Porcine Wrote:  

(06-16-2022 12:39 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-16-2022 12:18 PM)Kyle Mack Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 09:26 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Meh, there are a lot more fans. Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Texas Tech ,WVU and BYU all have 55K+ butts in the seat on game day; K-State has 50K+; and TCU, Baylor and UCF will all have around 45K. Even UC and UH will get to the 40,000 number. There are no school's in professional stadiums announcing 40K+ with only ~20K butts in the seat.

Agreed. In the old BE, post Miami, WVU had the best football fan base. And the 2 best programs were WVU and Cincy (Ville and Pitt not too far behind). Most of the new Big 12 games are going to be sellouts or close to it.

Pre expansion the Big East had normally strong teams in Miami, Cuse, WVU and VTech...and sometimes BC

It was a much stronger league than many give credit to it.

Most of them were better together than they are now.

You have to consider when schools stopped playing familiar opponents/rivals, fan interest goes down. I lost a lot of interest in Temple men's basketball once they joined the AAC. These Big East schools used to play a lot of regional opponents and are now playing a lot of further away opponents (especially West Virginia).

Temple’s basketball attendance is actually up from its last year playing its peers in the A10. The data for 2020 and 2021 is not that great due to COVID restrictions, so using 2018-2019 season the Owls average 6,400 a game. In the last year in the A10 the Owls average 5,925.