Based off the thread about Kliavikoff, I would say yes, to a degree. I am sure that our FCS posters have some thoughts on this, so let's hear 'em!!!

(06-19-2022 09:22 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Based off the thread about Kliavikoff, I would say yes, to a degree. I am sure that our FCS posters have some thoughts on this, so let's hear 'em!!!

Big East and A-10 will become D2 since they are not interested in football. The schools that left the old Big East to the Big 10 and ACC is because the non-basketball schools kept them expanding on football. So no on A10 and Big East unless all the schools are interested in adding FBS football.

(06-19-2022 10:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 09:22 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Based off the thread about Kliavikoff, I would say yes, to a degree. I am sure that our FCS posters have some thoughts on this, so let's hear 'em!!!

Big East and A-10 will become D2 since they are not interested in football. The schools that left the old Big East to the Big 10 and ACC is because the non-basketball schools kept them expanding on football. So no on A10 and Big East unless all the schools are interested in adding FBS football.

And if there is a provision for the Big East that doesn't mean it will apply to the A10 at all.

I hear on this board how the A10 is a big leap over the MAC but the BE is a light year jump over the A10.

(06-19-2022 10:20 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 10:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 09:22 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Based off the thread about Kliavikoff, I would say yes, to a degree. I am sure that our FCS posters have some thoughts on this, so let's hear 'em!!!

Big East and A-10 will become D2 since they are not interested in football. The schools that left the old Big East to the Big 10 and ACC is because the non-basketball schools kept them expanding on football. So no on A10 and Big East unless all the schools are interested in adding FBS football.

And if there is a provision for the Big East that doesn't mean it will apply to the A10 at all.

I hear on this board how the A10 is a big leap over the MAC but the BE is a light year jump over the A10.

The point is that these schools in the non-football conferences and hybrids conferences that don't sponsor or play football are having votes on football related issues. I am seeing schools shuffling in the FCS levels to try and position themselves for a reason. There are a lot of schools that are interested in FBS right now. If we could do away from hybrid conferences? I think WAC, Big Sky, MVFC, CAA and ASUN all could be in position with the most schools ready for FBS. We might have 15 conferences for FBS, and might see conferences like the old ones like RMAC and Lone Star back at the top level of the NCAAs again as the FCS. The top schools from the D2 conferences are willing to spend more on athletics than the smaller schools that don't have the money to keep up.

(06-19-2022 10:20 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 10:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 09:22 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Based off the thread about Kliavikoff, I would say yes, to a degree. I am sure that our FCS posters have some thoughts on this, so let's hear 'em!!!

Big East and A-10 will become D2 since they are not interested in football. The schools that left the old Big East to the Big 10 and ACC is because the non-basketball schools kept them expanding on football. So no on A10 and Big East unless all the schools are interested in adding FBS football.

And if there is a provision for the Big East that doesn't mean it will apply to the A10 at all.

I hear on this board how the A10 is a big leap over the MAC but the BE is a light year jump over the A10.

I disagree. If E$PN is televising the A10 , ESPN will make sure that the A10 is in D1. Same applies to the WCC, IMO.

(06-20-2022 12:53 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 10:20 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 10:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 09:22 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Based off the thread about Kliavikoff, I would say yes, to a degree. I am sure that our FCS posters have some thoughts on this, so let's hear 'em!!!

Big East and A-10 will become D2 since they are not interested in football. The schools that left the old Big East to the Big 10 and ACC is because the non-basketball schools kept them expanding on football. So no on A10 and Big East unless all the schools are interested in adding FBS football.

And if there is a provision for the Big East that doesn't mean it will apply to the A10 at all.

I hear on this board how the A10 is a big leap over the MAC but the BE is a light year jump over the A10.

I disagree. If E$PN is televising the A10 , ESPN will make sure that the A10 is in D1. Same applies to the WCC, IMO.

But, these conferences do not agree with ESPN on this issue. I could see the football schools from the A10 with football move to a better conference. It would shaved some costs off of ESPN. This would put pressure on the schools in the Big West, Big East, A10 and others who do not have football to do at adding football or upgrade their football in a way to keep up.

(06-20-2022 12:53 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 10:20 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 10:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 09:22 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Based off the thread about Kliavikoff, I would say yes, to a degree. I am sure that our FCS posters have some thoughts on this, so let's hear 'em!!!

Big East and A-10 will become D2 since they are not interested in football. The schools that left the old Big East to the Big 10 and ACC is because the non-basketball schools kept them expanding on football. So no on A10 and Big East unless all the schools are interested in adding FBS football.

And if there is a provision for the Big East that doesn't mean it will apply to the A10 at all.

I hear on this board how the A10 is a big leap over the MAC but the BE is a light year jump over the A10.

I disagree. If E$PN is televising the A10 , ESPN will make sure that the A10 is in D1. Same applies to the WCC, IMO.

Gonzaga to MWC takes care of the WCC. Its going to happen in a few years once Gonzaga is no longer earning retro payments for its basketball units.

ESPN might make the say in realignment but they don't make the say at least directly in divisional structure.

(06-19-2022 09:22 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Based off the thread about Kliavikoff, I would say yes, to a degree. I am sure that our FCS posters have some thoughts on this, so let's hear 'em!!!

What do you mean by the new D2? Are 15 or so FCS conferences going to be forcibly demoted to D2? No that's not going to happen.

Do you mean the P5 football move on from the NCAA via break away or re-imagining Football under a non-NCAA governance effectively leaving the G5 and FCS as a second tier of College football? If so, then the A10 and BE are going to be left behind with everyone else. No way conferences not even carrying FBS football make the cut, when 5 conferences that do, don't make the cut.

Is there going to be a break away in Div 1 basketball as well? That's the only possibility where your question makes sense. In which case, I'd like to think the BE, A10, WCC make the cut but I have a feeling it will be done more of a way that teams cut themselves and conferences reshuffle.

In other words, instead of a free tournament auto-bid to each conference with no membership fee. A $1 to $2 million dollar a year membership fee per school that will be re-distributed in the Championship tournaments. Similar to the way the NCAA distributes the NCAA men's basketball tournament money. Teams would have no incentive to freeload as only the competitive teams and conferences will be making money from the new governance.

Under those terms a team like Liberty makes the cut but maybe not all of CUSA.

So no. I don't think the cut off to a new effective D2 from D1 is going to be split along BE/A10 and the rest fault lines.

For a new 64 team men's and women's basketball tournaments to exist when the P5 have 12, 14, 14, 16, and 12(and counting) members you still need a 100 or so small conference teams.... maybe 200. If the P5 all have 12 members, you can bet the new requirement for conference membership will be a minimum 12 members. That will reduce the number of auto-bids as schools that don't want to pay for membership leave and conferences re-structure.

So if there is a basketball break away, I think it will be more than just the P5 BE and A10.

(06-19-2022 09:22 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Based off the thread about Kliavikoff, I would say yes, to a degree. I am sure that our FCS posters have some thoughts on this, so let's hear 'em!!!

The idea of demoting scores of universities down to a lower division, and thus disqualifying them from Division 1 tournaments strikes me as being an absolutely
terrible idea.

I doubt if the NCAA could even get away with it, legally, but even if they could, it would be an appalling thing to do. How gratuitously unfair that would be.

(06-20-2022 02:47 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 09:22 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Based off the thread about Kliavikoff, I would say yes, to a degree. I am sure that our FCS posters have some thoughts on this, so let's hear 'em!!!

The idea of demoting scores of universities down to a lower division, and thus disqualifying them from Division 1 tournaments strikes me as being an absolutely
terrible idea.

I doubt if the NCAA could even get away with it, legally, but even if they could, it would be an appalling thing to do. How gratuitously unfair that would be.

This is no different than subdividing D-I football into FBS and FCS or just having divisions in the first place. There is no legal issue here. The idea that rich schools must subsidize poor ones is the terrible idea, not excluding weak teams from a tournament.

(06-19-2022 09:22 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Based off the thread about Kliavikoff, I would say yes, to a degree. I am sure that our FCS posters have some thoughts on this, so let's hear 'em!!!

I think it makes more sense - and as likely - that fake college sports teams like Alabama and Georgia join the professional ranks.

(06-20-2022 06:55 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 09:22 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Based off the thread about Kliavikoff, I would say yes, to a degree. I am sure that our FCS posters have some thoughts on this, so let's hear 'em!!!

I think it makes more sense - and as likely - that fake college sports teams like Alabama and Georgia join the professional ranks.

This. I have no problem with teams going pro. Instead of college football turning into the NFL, let the teams with all the money go pro instead. Iowa for example doesn’t have an NFL team so let the Hawkeyes represent the state. Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Nebraska, South Carolina etc would be fine NFL squads.

I wouldn't jump to the OP conclusion.

The point of Kliavkoff is that FBS football is that it's very different than every other sport within the NCAA in terms of scholarships, enforcement, rules, etc. As a result, it's inefficient to have FBS under the NCAA.

I don't think that we can draw that same conclusion to basketball or any other sport. Now, could we argue that there are reasons why the P5 plus a handful of others would want to separate basketball for *financial* purposes? Certainly! However, there isn't an inherent *governance* issue with Division I basketball (no matter if it's P5, Big East or single-bid leagues) that there is with FBS football.

(06-20-2022 01:30 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-20-2022 12:53 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 10:20 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 10:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 09:22 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Based off the thread about Kliavikoff, I would say yes, to a degree. I am sure that our FCS posters have some thoughts on this, so let's hear 'em!!!

Big East and A-10 will become D2 since they are not interested in football. The schools that left the old Big East to the Big 10 and ACC is because the non-basketball schools kept them expanding on football. So no on A10 and Big East unless all the schools are interested in adding FBS football.

And if there is a provision for the Big East that doesn't mean it will apply to the A10 at all.

I hear on this board how the A10 is a big leap over the MAC but the BE is a light year jump over the A10.

I disagree. If E$PN is televising the A10 , ESPN will make sure that the A10 is in D1. Same applies to the WCC, IMO.

But, these conferences do not agree with ESPN on this issue. I could see the football schools from the A10 with football move to a better conference. It would shaved some costs off of ESPN. This would put pressure on the schools in the Big West, Big East, A10 and others who do not have football to do at adding football or upgrade their football in a way to keep up.

This is all wrong. So, so, so VERY wrong.

Football is not the be all end all for anyone outside of the P5.

(06-19-2022 10:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Big East and A-10 will become D2 since they are not interested in football. The schools that left the old Big East to the Big 10 and ACC is because the non-basketball schools kept them expanding on football. So no on A10 and Big East unless all the schools are interested in adding FBS football.

Not sure what you're arguing here. From 1991 to 2013, the Big East added (or proposed to add) 18 different schools. Of these, 16 played major college football.

(06-20-2022 02:39 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 10:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Big East and A-10 will become D2 since they are not interested in football. The schools that left the old Big East to the Big 10 and ACC is because the non-basketball schools kept them expanding on football. So no on A10 and Big East unless all the schools are interested in adding FBS football.

Not sure what you're arguing here. From 1991 to 2013, the Big East added (or proposed to add) 18 different schools. Of these, 16 played major college football.

If he is trying to say that the non-football Big East members prevented the league from expanding beyond 8 football playing full member between 2000 and 2010, I think that is correct. The non-football schools did finally relent and allowed TCU to be invited in 2010, but it was too late at that point to save the Big East as a BCS conference. I still think that had the conference invited TCU, Houston, UCF, and Memphis around 2005, things could have gone very differently.

It will be divided by all sports 1A and 1AA. The basketball schools will be 1AA. It will become a FBS/FCS for all sports.

1A/FBS:
AAC + 1 with Wichita State adding football and Navy joins all sports.
ACC 14 + 1 adding Notre Dame football as all sports.
Big 12 12 they could add 4 to go 16.
Big 10 14
C-USA 9
MAC 12
MWC 12
PAC 12
SBC 14 with a possibility they add Chattanooga and Missouri State
SEC 16
Army could join AAC for all sports to get the AAC to 16.
UCONN joins all sports
UMass joins all sports.
Sacramento State
Cal Poly
Weber State
Montana
Idaho
Montana State
UCA
North Alabama
Austin Peay State
Kennesaw State
EKU
Delaware
Towson
North Carolina A&T
Stony Brook
New Hampshire
Richmond
Villanova could join the ACC for all sports.
MVFC forms a new FBS conference.
Tennessee State
Tennessee Tech
Lindenwood could go FBS which they could used the pro stadium that was abandoned.
Fordham
Dayton
University of Saint Thomas
Chattanooga
East Tennessee State
Western Carolina
McNeese State
Lamar
Florida A&M
Jackson State
Southern U.
Texas Southern
ACU
SFAU
Tarleton State
UTRGV
Utah Tech
Incarnate Word
Wayne State Michigan could used the stadium that the Lions used right now.
Indiapolis could used the Colts' stadium for right now.
West Florida
Angelo State
UTPB
West Texas A&M
Central Missouri
Central Oklahoma
Fort Hays State
West Chester
Colorado Mesa
CSU-Peublo
Rowan

Adding football to join this group.
Fullerton State
Northridge State
Long Beach State
UC-Irvine
UTT
College of Charleston
UC-San Diego
Little Rock
Grand Canyon
Utah Valley
UTA
George Mason
George Washington
VCU
Cleveland State
North Florida
FGCU
Green Bay
Milwaukee
Omaha
University of San Francisco
Santa Clara
CSU-San bernardino
San Francisco State
Sonoma State
Chico State
Southern Indiana
UAH
UAFS
Columbus State
North Georgia
Colo-Colorado Springs

I added D2 schools because once that there are playoffs involved in FBS, and that rules changes for schools upgrading from D2 are relaxed and that schools add football and other sports to be part of this. We could see some type of upgrading more schools from D2 from the larger schools to join the 1AA/FCS ranks. Then the FBS schools have can have votes for all sports that are in FBS and the FCS have their own seperate votes for their league of all sports. That way, nobody would get demoted to a lower level in the NCAAs. They only get promoted.

(06-20-2022 06:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  It will be divided by all sports 1A and 1AA. The basketball schools will be 1AA. It will become a FBS/FCS for all sports.

1A/FBS:
AAC + 1 with Wichita State adding football and Navy joins all sports.
ACC 14 + 1 adding Notre Dame football as all sports.
Big 12 12 they could add 4 to go 16.
Big 10 14
C-USA 9
MAC 12
MWC 12
PAC 12
SBC 14 with a possibility they add Chattanooga and Missouri State
SEC 16
Army could join AAC for all sports to get the AAC to 16.
UCONN joins all sports
UMass joins all sports.
Sacramento State
Cal Poly
Weber State
Montana
Idaho
Montana State
UCA
North Alabama
Austin Peay State
Kennesaw State
EKU
Delaware
Towson
North Carolina A&T
Stony Brook
New Hampshire
Richmond
Villanova could join the ACC for all sports.
MVFC forms a new FBS conference.
Tennessee State
Tennessee Tech
Lindenwood could go FBS which they could used the pro stadium that was abandoned.
Fordham
Dayton
University of Saint Thomas
Chattanooga
East Tennessee State
Western Carolina
McNeese State
Lamar
Florida A&M
Jackson State
Southern U.
Texas Southern
ACU
SFAU
Tarleton State
UTRGV
Utah Tech
Incarnate Word
Wayne State Michigan could used the stadium that the Lions used right now.
Indiapolis could used the Colts' stadium for right now.
West Florida
Angelo State
UTPB
West Texas A&M
Central Missouri
Central Oklahoma
Fort Hays State
West Chester
Colorado Mesa
CSU-Peublo
Rowan

Adding football to join this group.
Fullerton State
Northridge State
Long Beach State
UC-Irvine
UTT
College of Charleston
UC-San Diego
Little Rock
Grand Canyon
Utah Valley
UTA
George Mason
George Washington
VCU
Cleveland State
North Florida
FGCU
Green Bay
Milwaukee
Omaha
University of San Francisco
Santa Clara
CSU-San bernardino
San Francisco State
Sonoma State
Chico State
Southern Indiana
UAH
UAFS
Columbus State
North Georgia
Colo-Colorado Springs

I added D2 schools because once that there are playoffs involved in FBS, and that rules changes for schools upgrading from D2 are relaxed and that schools add football and other sports to be part of this. We could see some type of upgrading more schools from D2 from the larger schools to join the 1AA/FCS ranks. Then the FBS schools have can have votes for all sports that are in FBS and the FCS have their own seperate votes for their league of all sports. That way, nobody would get demoted to a lower level in the NCAAs. They only get promoted.

Saying this as a UMass fan you think TV executives have any interest in any team below UConn but don't have interest in the Big East? TV executives probably are interested in a core 20 football/basketball teams, another 10 or 20 football schools that could be good in a given year. But basketball is a different season and the TV we want those schools for this season but we'll pay them at a different rate.

(06-20-2022 06:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  It will be divided by all sports 1A and 1AA. The basketball schools will be 1AA. It will become a FBS/FCS for all sports.

1A/FBS:
AAC + 1 with Wichita State adding football and Navy joins all sports.
ACC 14 + 1 adding Notre Dame football as all sports.
Big 12 12 they could add 4 to go 16.
Big 10 14
C-USA 9
MAC 12
MWC 12
PAC 12
SBC 14 with a possibility they add Chattanooga and Missouri State
SEC 16
Army could join AAC for all sports to get the AAC to 16.
UCONN joins all sports
UMass joins all sports.
Sacramento State
Cal Poly
Weber State
Montana
Idaho
Montana State
UCA
North Alabama
Austin Peay State
Kennesaw State
EKU
Delaware
Towson
North Carolina A&T
Stony Brook
New Hampshire
Richmond
Villanova could join the ACC for all sports.
MVFC forms a new FBS conference.
Tennessee State
Tennessee Tech
Lindenwood could go FBS which they could used the pro stadium that was abandoned.
Fordham
Dayton
University of Saint Thomas
Chattanooga
East Tennessee State
Western Carolina
McNeese State
Lamar
Florida A&M
Jackson State
Southern U.
Texas Southern
ACU
SFAU
Tarleton State
UTRGV
Utah Tech
Incarnate Word
Wayne State Michigan could used the stadium that the Lions used right now.
Indiapolis could used the Colts' stadium for right now.
West Florida
Angelo State
UTPB
West Texas A&M
Central Missouri
Central Oklahoma
Fort Hays State
West Chester
Colorado Mesa
CSU-Peublo
Rowan

Adding football to join this group.
Fullerton State
Northridge State
Long Beach State
UC-Irvine
UTT
College of Charleston
UC-San Diego
Little Rock
Grand Canyon
Utah Valley
UTA
George Mason
George Washington
VCU
Cleveland State
North Florida
FGCU
Green Bay
Milwaukee
Omaha
University of San Francisco
Santa Clara
CSU-San bernardino
San Francisco State
Sonoma State
Chico State
Southern Indiana
UAH
UAFS
Columbus State
North Georgia
Colo-Colorado Springs

I added D2 schools because once that there are playoffs involved in FBS, and that rules changes for schools upgrading from D2 are relaxed and that schools add football and other sports to be part of this. We could see some type of upgrading more schools from D2 from the larger schools to join the 1AA/FCS ranks. Then the FBS schools have can have votes for all sports that are in FBS and the FCS have their own seperate votes for their league of all sports. That way, nobody would get demoted to a lower level in the NCAAs. They only get promoted.

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

(06-20-2022 11:58 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-20-2022 01:30 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-20-2022 12:53 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 10:20 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(06-19-2022 10:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Big East and A-10 will become D2 since they are not interested in football. The schools that left the old Big East to the Big 10 and ACC is because the non-basketball schools kept them expanding on football. So no on A10 and Big East unless all the schools are interested in adding FBS football.

And if there is a provision for the Big East that doesn't mean it will apply to the A10 at all.

I hear on this board how the A10 is a big leap over the MAC but the BE is a light year jump over the A10.

I disagree. If E$PN is televising the A10 , ESPN will make sure that the A10 is in D1. Same applies to the WCC, IMO.

But, these conferences do not agree with ESPN on this issue. I could see the football schools from the A10 with football move to a better conference. It would shaved some costs off of ESPN. This would put pressure on the schools in the Big West, Big East, A10 and others who do not have football to do at adding football or upgrade their football in a way to keep up.

This is all wrong. So, so, so VERY wrong.

Football is not the be all end all for anyone outside of the P5.

The BE I will give you has BB at such a high quality and enough media markets to stand on its own two feet.

Buf if you look at the A10 their media deal has about the same value as CUSA, an entry level FBS conference and without factoring in the CFP revenue which is projected to triple in the new contract. The A10 has loaded in with enough good mid major programs to keep it at 2 bids but if you look at their salaries they are below the BE, AAC and MWC.

The A10 is where you move to stay relevant and not grow. MVC is now watered down with 12 members moving forward. WCC is much weaker with BYU leaving. Non-FB conferences are not the place to be outside of the BE.