Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
Author Message
cubucks Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,158
Joined: Apr 2015
Reputation: 440
I Root For: tOSU/UNL/Ohio
Location: Athens, Ohio
Post: #141
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-27-2022 01:27 PM)b2b Wrote:  Nope. I did a lot of stupid things. I owned every bit of it.
Fair.
04-27-2022 01:30 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Transic_nyc Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,401
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation: 194
I Root For: Return To Stability
Location:
Post: #142
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.
04-28-2022 11:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
AllTideUp Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,154
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 559
I Root For: Alabama
Location:
Post: #143
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-28-2022 11:35 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.

I don't think that's the right link. Different discussion at 24:20. There is some commentary on Pollard's statements a few minutes before that, but nothing from the AD himself.

Sounds like Pollard's comments were in the previous hour of the program.
04-29-2022 04:06 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Transic_nyc Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,401
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation: 194
I Root For: Return To Stability
Location:
Post: #144
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-29-2022 04:06 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(04-28-2022 11:35 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.

I don't think that's the right link. Different discussion at 24:20. There is some commentary on Pollard's statements a few minutes before that, but nothing from the AD himself.

Sounds like Pollard's comments were in the previous hour of the program.

There should be a play button in the center of the page which goes straight to the interview.
04-29-2022 04:39 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,233
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 762
I Root For: Carolina
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post: #145
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-29-2022 04:39 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(04-29-2022 04:06 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(04-28-2022 11:35 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.

I don't think that's the right link. Different discussion at 24:20. There is some commentary on Pollard's statements a few minutes before that, but nothing from the AD himself.

Sounds like Pollard's comments were in the previous hour of the program.

There should be a play button in the center of the page which goes straight to the interview.

It worked for me.
04-29-2022 05:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Big 12 fan too Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,660
Joined: May 2014
Reputation: 210
I Root For: NIU
Location:
Post: #146
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-28-2022 11:35 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure is sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.

Is this the same AD that 12 years ago complained about players being able to transfer?

He’s a relic AD from last century that owes millions of his personal wealth to OU and UT. A small budget AD that’s done little to improve his position or grow his revenue
04-29-2022 08:25 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SouthEastAlaska Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,191
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 308
I Root For: UW
Location:
Post: #147
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-28-2022 11:35 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.

Very interesting listen, thank you for sharing.
04-29-2022 09:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DawgNBama Offline
the Rush Limbaugh of CSNBBS
*

Posts: 8,320
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation: 446
I Root For: conservativism/MAGA
Location: US
Post: #148
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-28-2022 11:35 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.

I'll have to listen on Wednesday. From what you say though, sounds like he wants in the P2, and I don't doubt that he does want in. Can't blame him for that, but what does Iowa State bring to the table: basketball?? baseball?? hockey?? lacrosse???

(04-29-2022 08:25 AM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(04-28-2022 11:35 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure is sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.

Is this the same AD that 12 years ago complained about players being able to transfer?

He’s a relic AD from last century that owes millions of his personal wealth to OU and UT. A small budget AD that’s done little to improve his position or grow his revenue

Well, I think he knows that he is going to have to change that if he wants back in the club, IMO.
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2022 02:17 AM by DawgNBama.)
04-30-2022 02:15 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Big 12 fan too Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,660
Joined: May 2014
Reputation: 210
I Root For: NIU
Location:
Post: #149
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-30-2022 02:15 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(04-28-2022 11:35 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.

I'll have to listen on Wednesday. From what you say though, sounds like he wants in the P2, and I don't doubt that he does want in. Can't blame him for that, but what does Iowa State bring to the table: basketball?? baseball?? hockey?? lacrosse???

(04-29-2022 08:25 AM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(04-28-2022 11:35 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure is sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.

Is this the same AD that 12 years ago complained about players being able to transfer?

He’s a relic AD from last century that owes millions of his personal wealth to OU and UT. A small budget AD that’s done little to improve his position or grow his revenue

Well, I think he knows that he is going to have to change that if he wants back in the club, IMO.

You would think so.

I listened- he sounds ready to fold.
If you’re an AD of a p6 with $100 million budget and you can’t figure out how to cover $105 million from your most important input cost increasing, you’re a talentless businessman just riding the TV revenues from the top of CFB
04-30-2022 02:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DawgNBama Offline
the Rush Limbaugh of CSNBBS
*

Posts: 8,320
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation: 446
I Root For: conservativism/MAGA
Location: US
Post: #150
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
interesting quote from the main college sports and conference realignment message board:

(05-04-2022 04:10 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  
(05-04-2022 03:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-04-2022 11:29 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-04-2022 10:58 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  
(05-04-2022 10:31 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  We [can] create our own rules, create our own governance structure, have our own enforcement, we have our own requirements, whatever that might be

Whatever that might be. I’m willing to bet it more than 85 scholarships and 15k in attendance (not actually enforced).

With NIL I wonder what will happen with scholarships. Would it be better to go back to 65 scholarships or eliminate them all together. I wonder if scholarship funds from donations will start to dry up. If you have kids making enough from NIL they can pay their own way. I have to pay for both of my kids to go to college, why should I donate and pay for some kid that already has the money to pay for it himself.

NO.

I don't think fans that suggest this (as we've seen in many threads) are looking at it clearly from a financial perspective.

A scholarship has benefits to BOTH the school and the athlete from a financial perspective. For the athlete, it's not taxable income. For the school, they can use funds that aren't subject to tax AND it's not a true out-of-pocket expense in the same way as employment income. A scholarship is effectively a write-off of the full retail value of tuition that is shifted internally from the athletic department to the main office of the university while the true "cost" of that scholarship is really the "wholesale" cost. It's a total win-win for both the athlete and school to ensure that employment income does NOT take the place of scholarship money. Any additional income would be on TOP of that scholarship as opposed to a replacement.

At the same time, from a practical perspective, schools simply want the best athletes and that's particularly the case for elite football and basketball players that receive the lion's share of third party NIL money. In fact, they are the single biggest target for ALL schools (from the Ivy League to the Big Ten to Division III) in terms of admissions. As a result, the marketplace is going to dictate that they're going to provide financial incentives to compete for those best athletes.

Everyone that keeps suggesting that schools are going to somehow cut scholarships to athletes are completely oblivious to the marketplace. The athletes have the leverage here and schools WANT to compete in this space. The demand from colleges for top athletes exceeds the supply of those top athletes (and that's the case even beyond the revenue sports), which means that colleges need to offer the true full boat (scholarships PLUS other income). This entire forum is exists because schools are completely obsessed with being able to be at the top level of college athletics (whether it makes any financial sense or not). No one is unilaterally disarming.

We are assuming that the cost (value) of tuition will continue to be non-taxable to the athlete and not considered compensation. That may or may not be the case in the future depending on whether Congress and the Courts view it differently in a world where college sports is no longer considered a purely amateur activity. We would like to think it will still be non-taxable, but it's hard to argue that something of significant value given to an athlete in exchange for performing on the field or court isn't compensation. On what basis would a congressional decision to tax the value of an athletic scholarship as payment for services rendered be considered unconstitutional?

This is a very interesting perspective and one that I too continue to wonder about.

As the attached Forbes article seems to indicate, the issue of taxation has been on the IRS's radar on and off over the years. My own view is that, as things stand today, the Government is reluctant to open up the whole taxation issue as it applies to these institutions and their sports programs. Just my guess, but even if players we're paid by the institutions, it wouldn't necessarily move the needle as this could be viewed similarly to work-study compensation which is not uncommon. In the end, I think most would still view these institutions' ties to the NCAA to still have an educational focus and mission, regardless of the fact that the FBS FB schools control the revenue streams for FB. (Of course, compensation payed to the players would be taxable and they would receive either a W-2 or 1099, depending on how this is all structured.)

All that said, if a portion of the FBS programs "broke away" from the NCAA, then I think all bets would be off. The whole fig leaf of the "educational focus" the NCAA provides would be gone, in my view. What would now be in place would be programs that operate more as professional teams, with HUGE revenue streams, paid employees, and a mostly symbolic tie to the institutions as they would be more or less divorced from the educational mission. Even if the players were still nominally considered to be "students" the environment would be completely changed. In such an environment, why wouldn't the IRS be looking at a tax revenue generating opportunity, especially given the budget deficits the Country runs year in and year out?

Now, perhaps the revenues will get so big that these institutions will take the view that they still come out ahead, even after the tax man has taken it's slice. The problem here, of course, is that ever escalating revenues are not likely to be a given, in my opinion. Given the societal changes that we have all discussed here, I don't think it would be surprising that at some point in the future revenues would decline. The tax obligation, however, brought on by all these structural changes, would remain. Given the risk adverse nature of these institutions in general, I wonder how many would take that bet.

I do note that most of these "break-away" comments come from AD's and NOT the University Presidents. I don't believe that is just by chance.

Just my 2 cents.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/taxnotes/20...315bc37e74
05-07-2022 10:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,233
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 762
I Root For: Carolina
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post: #151
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-30-2022 02:50 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(04-30-2022 02:15 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(04-28-2022 11:35 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.

I'll have to listen on Wednesday. From what you say though, sounds like he wants in the P2, and I don't doubt that he does want in. Can't blame him for that, but what does Iowa State bring to the table: basketball?? baseball?? hockey?? lacrosse???

(04-29-2022 08:25 AM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(04-28-2022 11:35 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure is sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.

Is this the same AD that 12 years ago complained about players being able to transfer?

He’s a relic AD from last century that owes millions of his personal wealth to OU and UT. A small budget AD that’s done little to improve his position or grow his revenue

Well, I think he knows that he is going to have to change that if he wants back in the club, IMO.

You would think so.

I listened- he sounds ready to fold.
If you’re an AD of a p6 with $100 million budget and you can’t figure out how to cover $105 million from your most important input cost increasing, you’re a talentless businessman just riding the TV revenues from the top of CFB

You have your numbers wrong. There is currently a P5 not a P6, and it will soon become a P4. This will happen when Oklahoma and Texas leave the Big 12 and the Big 12 product is diluted. Then the Big 12 will no longer be considered a P conference. To further reinforce that view, the Big 12 will be the only conference currently in the P5 to exist without a conference network (and with no plans to start one).
At best the Big 12 will be thought of a the new "tweener" conference after poaching most of the value from the AAC and having that conference slide into mediocracy.
05-08-2022 07:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
AllTideUp Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,154
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 559
I Root For: Alabama
Location:
Post: #152
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(05-08-2022 07:42 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-30-2022 02:50 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(04-30-2022 02:15 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(04-28-2022 11:35 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.

I'll have to listen on Wednesday. From what you say though, sounds like he wants in the P2, and I don't doubt that he does want in. Can't blame him for that, but what does Iowa State bring to the table: basketball?? baseball?? hockey?? lacrosse???

(04-29-2022 08:25 AM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(04-28-2022 11:35 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure is sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.

Is this the same AD that 12 years ago complained about players being able to transfer?

He’s a relic AD from last century that owes millions of his personal wealth to OU and UT. A small budget AD that’s done little to improve his position or grow his revenue

Well, I think he knows that he is going to have to change that if he wants back in the club, IMO.

You would think so.

I listened- he sounds ready to fold.
If you’re an AD of a p6 with $100 million budget and you can’t figure out how to cover $105 million from your most important input cost increasing, you’re a talentless businessman just riding the TV revenues from the top of CFB

You have your numbers wrong. There is currently a P5 not a P6, and it will soon become a P4. This will happen when Oklahoma and Texas leave the Big 12 and the Big 12 product is diluted. Then the Big 12 will no longer be considered a P conference. To further reinforce that view, the Big 12 will be the only conference currently in the P5 to exist without a conference network (and with no plans to start one).
At best the Big 12 will be thought of a the new "tweener" conference after poaching most of the value from the AAC and having that conference slide into mediocracy.

The P5 is more of a formal designation albeit with an informally given name. The Big 12 will be fine. They're just not going to make a ton of money.

But there won't be a P4 either. When the ACC disintegrates then the formal organizing structure will change in earnest. The P2 dynamic becomes most likely.
05-08-2022 08:54 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
random asian guy Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,192
Joined: Aug 2014
Reputation: 331
I Root For: VT, Georgetown
Location:
Post: #153
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(05-08-2022 08:54 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 07:42 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-30-2022 02:50 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(04-30-2022 02:15 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(04-28-2022 11:35 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Jamie Pollard, Iowa State AD, thinks that there may be a breakaway of 30 programs in the near future.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-the-m...-96196394/

Start at 24:20

I would not say it's definite just from his statements but he sure sounded extremely frustrated, like he knows something is coming and is trying to figure out how to work around it.

I'll have to listen on Wednesday. From what you say though, sounds like he wants in the P2, and I don't doubt that he does want in. Can't blame him for that, but what does Iowa State bring to the table: basketball?? baseball?? hockey?? lacrosse???

(04-29-2022 08:25 AM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  Is this the same AD that 12 years ago complained about players being able to transfer?

He’s a relic AD from last century that owes millions of his personal wealth to OU and UT. A small budget AD that’s done little to improve his position or grow his revenue

Well, I think he knows that he is going to have to change that if he wants back in the club, IMO.

You would think so.

I listened- he sounds ready to fold.
If you’re an AD of a p6 with $100 million budget and you can’t figure out how to cover $105 million from your most important input cost increasing, you’re a talentless businessman just riding the TV revenues from the top of CFB

You have your numbers wrong. There is currently a P5 not a P6, and it will soon become a P4. This will happen when Oklahoma and Texas leave the Big 12 and the Big 12 product is diluted. Then the Big 12 will no longer be considered a P conference. To further reinforce that view, the Big 12 will be the only conference currently in the P5 to exist without a conference network (and with no plans to start one).
At best the Big 12 will be thought of a the new "tweener" conference after poaching most of the value from the AAC and having that conference slide into mediocracy.

The P5 is more of a formal designation albeit with an informally given name. The Big 12 will be fine. They're just not going to make a ton of money.

But there won't be a P4 either. When the ACC disintegrates then the formal organizing structure will change in earnest. The P2 dynamic becomes most likely.

While I agree that there won’t be a formal P4 designation and the B12 would be fine, one main difference between the B12 and the other four conferences is that the B12 will not have a dedicated 24/7 TV channel. As a fan, I have an overwhelmingly positive experience with the ACCN, and would consider the dedicated channel as a must feature for a modern day major conference.
05-08-2022 11:41 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
AllTideUp Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,154
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 559
I Root For: Alabama
Location:
Post: #154
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(05-08-2022 11:41 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 08:54 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 07:42 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-30-2022 02:50 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(04-30-2022 02:15 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I'll have to listen on Wednesday. From what you say though, sounds like he wants in the P2, and I don't doubt that he does want in. Can't blame him for that, but what does Iowa State bring to the table: basketball?? baseball?? hockey?? lacrosse???


Well, I think he knows that he is going to have to change that if he wants back in the club, IMO.

You would think so.

I listened- he sounds ready to fold.
If you’re an AD of a p6 with $100 million budget and you can’t figure out how to cover $105 million from your most important input cost increasing, you’re a talentless businessman just riding the TV revenues from the top of CFB

You have your numbers wrong. There is currently a P5 not a P6, and it will soon become a P4. This will happen when Oklahoma and Texas leave the Big 12 and the Big 12 product is diluted. Then the Big 12 will no longer be considered a P conference. To further reinforce that view, the Big 12 will be the only conference currently in the P5 to exist without a conference network (and with no plans to start one).
At best the Big 12 will be thought of a the new "tweener" conference after poaching most of the value from the AAC and having that conference slide into mediocracy.

The P5 is more of a formal designation albeit with an informally given name. The Big 12 will be fine. They're just not going to make a ton of money.

But there won't be a P4 either. When the ACC disintegrates then the formal organizing structure will change in earnest. The P2 dynamic becomes most likely.

While I agree that there won’t be a formal P4 designation and the B12 would be fine, one main difference between the B12 and the other four conferences is that the B12 will not have a dedicated 24/7 TV channel. As a fan, I have an overwhelmingly positive experience with the ACCN, and would consider the dedicated channel as a must feature for a modern day major conference.

I think the problem is that with the rise of streaming, these individual cable feeds will become less and less signifcant.

Wouldn't be shocked to see the individual conference networks disappear within 10 years. We're already seeing RSNs struggle even if these conference networks have wider reach which will give them a little more margin for error.

What will matter on live TV and streaming going forward will be good branding and quality content.
05-08-2022 01:37 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 37,908
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 7737
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #155
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(05-08-2022 01:37 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 11:41 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 08:54 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 07:42 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-30-2022 02:50 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  You would think so.

I listened- he sounds ready to fold.
If you’re an AD of a p6 with $100 million budget and you can’t figure out how to cover $105 million from your most important input cost increasing, you’re a talentless businessman just riding the TV revenues from the top of CFB

You have your numbers wrong. There is currently a P5 not a P6, and it will soon become a P4. This will happen when Oklahoma and Texas leave the Big 12 and the Big 12 product is diluted. Then the Big 12 will no longer be considered a P conference. To further reinforce that view, the Big 12 will be the only conference currently in the P5 to exist without a conference network (and with no plans to start one).
At best the Big 12 will be thought of a the new "tweener" conference after poaching most of the value from the AAC and having that conference slide into mediocracy.

The P5 is more of a formal designation albeit with an informally given name. The Big 12 will be fine. They're just not going to make a ton of money.

But there won't be a P4 either. When the ACC disintegrates then the formal organizing structure will change in earnest. The P2 dynamic becomes most likely.

While I agree that there won’t be a formal P4 designation and the B12 would be fine, one main difference between the B12 and the other four conferences is that the B12 will not have a dedicated 24/7 TV channel. As a fan, I have an overwhelmingly positive experience with the ACCN, and would consider the dedicated channel as a must feature for a modern day major conference.

I think the problem is that with the rise of streaming, these individual cable feeds will become less and less signifcant.

Wouldn't be shocked to see the individual conference networks disappear within 10 years. We're already seeing RSNs struggle even if these conference networks have wider reach which will give them a little more margin for error.

What will matter on live TV and streaming going forward will be good branding and quality content.

Which is precisely why we will see more consolidation and why the SEC and B1G will be the nuclei. Both already have solid brand on brand content and the viewing numbers. The ACC has maybe 3 solid football brands (key) with decent numbers. And I'm not counting ND. The PAC has maybe 4. That's why there isn't enough content to build around no matter how many solid G5's you add. And therefore, consolidation makes sense to eliminate administrative overhead duplication, to gain bargaining leverage, to increase solid inventory, and to make playoff structure more streamlined and profitable for everyone. Nobody has considered it but in a P2 literally everyone divides the playoff money within their conference.

IMO, the only question is 40 or 48 per conference. We may see 4 or3 conferences initially as some kind of transition, but the money and math say we end with 2.
05-08-2022 02:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,233
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 762
I Root For: Carolina
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post: #156
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(05-08-2022 01:37 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 11:41 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 08:54 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 07:42 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-30-2022 02:50 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  You would think so.

I listened- he sounds ready to fold.
If you’re an AD of a p6 with $100 million budget and you can’t figure out how to cover $105 million from your most important input cost increasing, you’re a talentless businessman just riding the TV revenues from the top of CFB

You have your numbers wrong. There is currently a P5 not a P6, and it will soon become a P4. This will happen when Oklahoma and Texas leave the Big 12 and the Big 12 product is diluted. Then the Big 12 will no longer be considered a P conference. To further reinforce that view, the Big 12 will be the only conference currently in the P5 to exist without a conference network (and with no plans to start one).
At best the Big 12 will be thought of a the new "tweener" conference after poaching most of the value from the AAC and having that conference slide into mediocracy.

The P5 is more of a formal designation albeit with an informally given name. The Big 12 will be fine. They're just not going to make a ton of money.

But there won't be a P4 either. When the ACC disintegrates then the formal organizing structure will change in earnest. The P2 dynamic becomes most likely.

While I agree that there won’t be a formal P4 designation and the B12 would be fine, one main difference between the B12 and the other four conferences is that the B12 will not have a dedicated 24/7 TV channel. As a fan, I have an overwhelmingly positive experience with the ACCN, and would consider the dedicated channel as a must feature for a modern day major conference.

I think the problem is that with the rise of streaming, these individual cable feeds will become less and less signifcant.

Wouldn't be shocked to see the individual conference networks disappear within 10 years. We're already seeing RSNs struggle even if these conference networks have wider reach which will give them a little more margin for error.

What will matter on live TV and streaming going forward will be good branding and quality content.

The quality of streamed broadcasts are getting much better.
When the ACC first launched it's "Digital Network" many years ago, watching a baseball game was a one camera affair. Yesterday I watched a double header (Carolina was playing at State) and there were 5 or six cameras used, with a decent announcing crew.
But there is a hierarchy in the broadcasts.
What I can see on Watch ESPN through my cable provider (like yesterday) is at the bottom rung. Then comes the ACCN/ESPNU and moves up to ESPN/ESPN2 from there. As you move up the ladder the quality gets a little better and the announcers have a little more experience. Probably, and most importantly, the advertising gets more expensive. Streaming has it's place, it's great to be able to see a game that otherwise wouldn't make it to the "air", but it won't usually become a broadcast "event".
Streaming live sports limits the audience to folks looking for a particular event in a menu of multiple choices and has very little chance to draw in the "casual" fan. For a production company (like ESPN, FOX, or NBC) it limits the amount of revenue that can be generated, because the size of the audience can never be pre-determined.
For a production company marketing the sizzle (like Gameday) is always more profitable than selling the steak.
05-09-2022 04:48 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
PeteTheChop Offline
Here rests the ACC: 1953-2026
*

Posts: 4,177
Joined: Apr 2007
Reputation: 1057
I Root For: C-A-N-E-S
Location: North Florida lifer
Post: #157
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(05-08-2022 08:54 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  [When the ACC disintegrates ...

Hmmmmm ....

Tell us more
05-09-2022 09:46 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Big 12 fan too Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,660
Joined: May 2014
Reputation: 210
I Root For: NIU
Location:
Post: #158
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(05-09-2022 09:46 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 08:54 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  [When the ACC disintegrates ...

Hmmmmm ....

Tell us more
It’s simple.

Even with top football brands they’re a weak P5. If they have any brands the P2 wants, they are at risk.

Imo there are schools that would jump ASAP at a P2 invite. Being in a second rate conference coterminous with P2, facing a $500 million deficit to the P2 over 10 years, is not a recipe for success. For any that can get to a P2, there’s a lot of risk in staying in the ACC. Will Clemson’s brand ever be higher? Will FSU get an invite in another decade given the aforementioned disadvantages, or will they be closer to UCF and USF than they are UF?

There are also schools that don’t want to find out what happens come GOR expiration. They will sell their dissolution vote to lock in parity to the current ACC deal.

Even the UNC and Duke types will never have more leverage to determine the breakup. Plus, it prudent to make $500 million more and off load the risk the new staffs aren’t Kevin Ollie 2.0

A lot is riding on the Johnson vs NCAA decision. There’s not desire to get bloody getting out of the current setup if Armageddon occurs and soon makes moves painless. But some big decisions are coming, and best bet on schools trying to find shelter and certainly in P2. For those in ACC, dissolution votes are required to move schools to BIG or SEC, and should be leveraged to get the better post-ACC terms.
(This post was last modified: 05-09-2022 12:22 PM by Big 12 fan too.)
05-09-2022 12:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
AllTideUp Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,154
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 559
I Root For: Alabama
Location:
Post: #159
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(05-09-2022 04:48 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 01:37 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 11:41 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 08:54 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 07:42 AM)XLance Wrote:  You have your numbers wrong. There is currently a P5 not a P6, and it will soon become a P4. This will happen when Oklahoma and Texas leave the Big 12 and the Big 12 product is diluted. Then the Big 12 will no longer be considered a P conference. To further reinforce that view, the Big 12 will be the only conference currently in the P5 to exist without a conference network (and with no plans to start one).
At best the Big 12 will be thought of a the new "tweener" conference after poaching most of the value from the AAC and having that conference slide into mediocracy.

The P5 is more of a formal designation albeit with an informally given name. The Big 12 will be fine. They're just not going to make a ton of money.

But there won't be a P4 either. When the ACC disintegrates then the formal organizing structure will change in earnest. The P2 dynamic becomes most likely.

While I agree that there won’t be a formal P4 designation and the B12 would be fine, one main difference between the B12 and the other four conferences is that the B12 will not have a dedicated 24/7 TV channel. As a fan, I have an overwhelmingly positive experience with the ACCN, and would consider the dedicated channel as a must feature for a modern day major conference.

I think the problem is that with the rise of streaming, these individual cable feeds will become less and less signifcant.

Wouldn't be shocked to see the individual conference networks disappear within 10 years. We're already seeing RSNs struggle even if these conference networks have wider reach which will give them a little more margin for error.

What will matter on live TV and streaming going forward will be good branding and quality content.

The quality of streamed broadcasts are getting much better.
When the ACC first launched it's "Digital Network" many years ago, watching a baseball game was a one camera affair. Yesterday I watched a double header (Carolina was playing at State) and there were 5 or six cameras used, with a decent announcing crew.
But there is a hierarchy in the broadcasts.
What I can see on Watch ESPN through my cable provider (like yesterday) is at the bottom rung. Then comes the ACCN/ESPNU and moves up to ESPN/ESPN2 from there. As you move up the ladder the quality gets a little better and the announcers have a little more experience. Probably, and most importantly, the advertising gets more expensive. Streaming has it's place, it's great to be able to see a game that otherwise wouldn't make it to the "air", but it won't usually become a broadcast "event".
Streaming live sports limits the audience to folks looking for a particular event in a menu of multiple choices and has very little chance to draw in the "casual" fan. For a production company (like ESPN, FOX, or NBC) it limits the amount of revenue that can be generated, because the size of the audience can never be pre-determined.
For a production company marketing the sizzle (like Gameday) is always more profitable than selling the steak.

It's less about the technology of streaming and more about the cost of traditional cable feeds. Traditional cable bundles will fade more and more as time passes. I'm convinced the only thing that has kept them relevant in the current climate is the ability of companies to stream cable replacements...YouTube TV, Hulu Live, Fubo TV, Sling, and whatever AT&T is calling their product this week.

The consumer will decide how many traditional feeds can survive. There's no doubt broadcast companies would rather the traditional cable model survive long into the future, but they're not making the decision. They're trying to get out in front of the streaming boom by spending early on establishing their platforms. Point being, they won't be able to guarantee a certain audience for a traditional feed when the audience is based purely on how many subscribers there are to a traditional cable model.

The only constant is change.
05-09-2022 05:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Transic_nyc Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,401
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation: 194
I Root For: Return To Stability
Location:
Post: #160
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:







Then there's this analysis of a bill going through the California legislature that would require the California State and University of California systems to share revenue with players. From Jon Wilner:

Quote:An analysis published by the Appropriations Committee prior to SB-1401 moving to the suspense file projected an economic impact of $34 million to $36 million annually for the University of California and $1 million to $9.3 million annually for the California State University.

According to the analysis:

“By requiring institutions of higher education to establish degree completion funds for student athletes, this bill could result in a substantial redistribution of a college’s athletic program revenues. This could then lead to significant local cost pressures for colleges to backfill these resources and balance their budgets to maintain the existing level of services.”

The bill’s lead author is State Sen. Steven Bradford, who represents the 35th District (Carson, Inglewood, Long Beach, etc.) and helped create California’s groundbreaking Name, Image and Likeness (NIL) law in 2019.

But the quiet force behind the legislation is the National College Players Association, an athlete-advocacy group founded by former UCLA linebacker Ramogi Huma and supported by the U.S. Steelworkers.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/05/11/e...c-budgets/
05-12-2022 11:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.