So who’s not invited into the airport meeting?

UMass
URI
Fordham
St Bonaventure
St Joseph’s
LaSalle
Duquesne
G Washington
G Mason

To me it seems like the A-10 is getting a little to big for a 1-2 bid league.

(03-14-2022 09:17 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-13-2022 10:05 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  East west you have Virginia & North Carolina, to Ohio to Kentucky to Illinois to Missouri to Kansas. A good geographical conference configuration.

No true NE schools and no true southern schools. Only the state of Indiana is left out.

Here's the thing that I think a lot of conference realignment observers miss: academic leaders at schools WANT to be associated with the Northeast. The Northeast is to academia as Texas and Florida are to football. That is always going to be the case. It's why SLU and Dayton haven't wanted to have anything to do with the MVC - the Midwestern focus is a *negative* to them and Loyola Chicago was thrilled with getting into a more Eastern-focused league. The East Coast is a big time feature for university presidents (as opposed to a bug) and the A-10 has poaching power over every league in the Eastern and Central Time Zones outside of the FBS leagues, Big East and Ivy League.

So true. Mizzou tried to become the Harvard of the Midwest in the 80’s while decimating the football program for 12 or so years before Pinkel came along.

(03-13-2022 10:38 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-13-2022 10:21 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Belmont
Davidson
Dayton
Drake
Duquesne
Loyola - Chicago
Murray St
Richmond
Saint Louis
VCU
Wichita St

Belmont had a great run for a decade about a decade ago….but since that run they’ve slipped. And they play in a small gym

They won the conference regular season title in 2021, 2020, 2019, 2017, and 2016. I don't think it's really accurate to say they've slipped.

(03-14-2022 11:10 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(03-13-2022 10:38 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-13-2022 10:21 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Belmont
Davidson
Dayton
Drake
Duquesne
Loyola - Chicago
Murray St
Richmond
Saint Louis
VCU
Wichita St

Belmont had a great run for a decade about a decade ago….but since that run they’ve slipped. And they play in a small gym

They won the conference regular season title in 2021, 2020, 2019, 2017, and 2016. I don't think it's really accurate to say they've slipped.

They were an at-large and won an NCAA Tournament game 3 years ago.

I’d like to see UMass in the Big East, while Holy Cross and William & Mary move to the A10.

(03-14-2022 11:18 AM)esayem Wrote:  I’d like to see UMass in the Big East, while Holy Cross and William & Mary move to the A10.

The BE isn't going to help UMASS even though I agree it would be a great place to be with UConn with an annual independent FB rivalry. If UMASS would get the A-10 boot in an airport meeting, the most likely landing spot for them would be the MAC for all sports where they once were for FB only. I know they passed on all sports at the time but the 3-4 bid A-10 was more lucrative when that offer came by in the past. Add UMass in the east and WKU in the west for a 14 school conference.

(03-14-2022 09:32 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The elephant in the room for the A10 is the grouping of schools below, as well as the recent swift regression of George Washington under Christian:

Duquesne: Five NCAAT Appearances (none since 1977)
Fordham: Four NCAAT Appearances (none since 1992, one in past fifty years)
George Mason: Six NCAAT Appearances (none since 2011, none before 1989)
La Salle: Twelve NCAAT Appearances (two in past thirty years)
UMass: Nine NCAAT Appearances (none since 2014, one in past twenty years)

While these programs may have been strong at various points in history, some really further back than others, the reality is that none of these programs have added much, if any, value to the A10 within the past two decades. George Mason was added after one Final Four run in 2006; conversely, VCU was added after their Final Four run in 2011 in 2011, and they have been one of the most consistent programs in the A10 since joining (if not the most consistent). UMass, minus Calipari's run in the 1990's, have just two NCAAT appearances in history; take that era away and they really have nothing to show for it. GW, UMass and Duquesne are founding members of the A10 in 1976, which is a bitter pill to swallow for those programs. Fordham and La Salle both joined together in 1995.

If the A10 had a do-over, Fordham and La Salle are not added. While they made sense at the time, none of really put forward the resources to compete consistently with the top half of the A10. The A10 will never kick out these members, and I would be shocked if any of them made the choice to willingly downgrade conferences.

La Salle is the major issue. It’s in a duplicate market and really has not invested enough to be considered successful. Fordham at least is considered a very good academic institution and is in New York City.

As for GW, they were at the top of the league in the mid-2000’s and can easily become a good program again. They just fired their coach after only 3 years so it looks like they’re not settling for their current situation.

(03-14-2022 09:32 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  If the A10 had a do-over, Fordham and La Salle are not added. While they made sense at the time, none of really put forward the resources to compete consistently with the top half of the A10. The A10 will never kick out these members, and I would be shocked if any of them made the choice to willingly downgrade conferences.

The legendary John Chaney, circa 1995: (in his booming, sandpaper voice): "You need to invite La Salle to the A-10. Got it?!"

A-10 office: (meekly) "Okay"

La Salle with its steadily-declining resources obviously is a better fit for the MAAC or (yikes) even the NEC, but the Explorers' deservedly proud tradition and that magical Sweet 16 run in 2013 will live in hoops history regardless if the school were to drop a rung or two from its current mid-major plus league.

Who is Fordham kidding? The administration is barely even trying. But the Big Apple market ... blah, blah, blah. NYC's days as a hoops mecca filled with nation's best pool of high school talent is long gone (Felipe Lopez or Sebastian Telfair hype, anyone?) Rams b-ball teams should join football in the Patriot League. A handful of people might complain but college basketball would be better for it.

Duquesne is two games over .500 in A-10 play since Keith Dambrot arrived in 2017. Pittsburgh is a deadzone as far as high school talent goes and the 3,500-seat fieldhouse is closer to low major than A-10 standards, but all things considered the Dukes are a good fit as long as they have a quality coach. Everybody can't be (nor needs to be) Dayton.

(03-14-2022 09:17 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-13-2022 10:05 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  East west you have Virginia & North Carolina, to Ohio to Kentucky to Illinois to Missouri to Kansas. A good geographical conference configuration.

No true NE schools and no true southern schools. Only the state of Indiana is left out.

Here's the thing that I think a lot of conference realignment observers miss: academic leaders at schools WANT to be associated with the Northeast. The Northeast is to academia as Texas and Florida are to football. That is always going to be the case. It's why SLU and Dayton haven't wanted to have anything to do with the MVC - the Midwestern focus is a *negative* to them and Loyola Chicago was thrilled with getting into a more Eastern-focused league. The East Coast is a big time feature for university presidents (as opposed to a bug) and the A-10 has poaching power over every league in the Eastern and Central Time Zones outside of the FBS leagues, Big East and Ivy League.

Right.

The idea of this thread is to lower or eliminate the departing schools' exposure to basketball recruits in the DC-to-NY corridor? Coaches at places like Dayton and Saint Louis don't want that.

It would also eliminate the exposure that basketball and TV provide to prospective students in the DC-to-NY corridor whose families can afford the over-$50,000/year tuition of private colleges like Dayton, Saint Louis, and Richmond.

(03-14-2022 11:18 AM)esayem Wrote:  I’d like to see UMass in the Big East, while Holy Cross and William & Mary move to the A10.

I think academically/geographically/institutionally we're a good fit for the A10, but our basketball program isn't good enough. We'd probably also need to make sure the CAA would be fine with us keeping football in it, though at that point the A10 would be close to having enough for its own football league (Richmond, WM, URI, Fordham, Duquesne. Holy Cross would make 6 if they were actually added as well, though this would be a pretty bizarre football league. I assume Dayton/Davidson would remain in the non-scholarship Pioneer).

We're doing some pretty major renovations to our arena that could hopefully set us up for long term success whenever the next big round of realignment happens.

(03-14-2022 11:18 AM)esayem Wrote:  I’d like to see UMass in the Big East, while Holy Cross and William & Mary move to the A10.

Top B1G East candidates (in order):

1. Saint Louis (fits like a glove and resources in place to be an average or better than average BE program with a quality coach, i.e at least one notch above Travis Ford).

2. Gonzaga - basketball only (would be an absolute win/win if both sides could cooperate to make the logistics work)

3. Wake Forest (if the other three Tobacco Road schools left the ACC)

3. Dayton (respect UD a lot but prefer the Flyers as the A-10 flagship program more than as a second OH program 45 minutes North of XU)

-- end of list --

No. This is a solution looking for a problem.

The A10 will likely lose Dayton and possibly SLU to the Big East. When that happens, I think Temple will return and you have a conference that is geographically tighter.

(03-14-2022 01:00 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  The A10 will likely lose Dayton and possibly SLU to the Big East. When that happens, I think Temple will return and you have a conference that is geographically tighter.

Unless you kick out DePaul, there's no room for two more teams in the Big East.

(03-14-2022 01:00 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  No. This is a solution looking for a problem.

The A10 will likely lose Dayton and possibly SLU to the Big East. When that happens, I think Temple will return and you have a conference that is geographically tighter.

You mean Temple will go Independent in FB and join A-10 in Olympic sports?

(03-14-2022 07:18 AM)BKTopper Wrote:  I would go with Bellarmine over Murray (just won their conference, ineligible for NCAA tourney/NIT during transition).

IUPUI would help bridge the Indiana gap. They might not have the history of Murray but the Jaguars have location and potential going for them.

Both programs play in large, storied arenas and are good institutional fits.

Murray is far and away a better program. History and tradition.

(03-14-2022 02:05 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-14-2022 01:00 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  No. This is a solution looking for a problem.

The A10 will likely lose Dayton and possibly SLU to the Big East. When that happens, I think Temple will return and you have a conference that is geographically tighter.

You mean Temple will go Independent in FB and join A-10 in Olympic sports?

I share your skepticism and think the chances of that are quite overstated. The AAC would essentially need to lose all of Memphis, Wichita State and SMU for Temple to even consider that prospect and, if that type of mass defection from the AAC were to happen, you may see UMass end up in the AAC for all-sports in a way that would entice Temple to stay. I don't think Temple would leave the AAC for football independence unless it's a Big East invite (which won't ever happen as long as Villanova is a member).

(03-14-2022 01:03 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(03-14-2022 01:00 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  The A10 will likely lose Dayton and possibly SLU to the Big East. When that happens, I think Temple will return and you have a conference that is geographically tighter.

Unless you kick out DePaul, there's no room for two more teams in the Big East.

I used to think that about conferences when they were at 10 members. Then they went to 12, 14, and 16 (which the Big East once had). If a conference members want a team enough, and can come to a monetary agreement (along with the broadcast partners), there always seems to be "room."

(03-14-2022 01:00 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  No. This is a solution looking for a problem.

The A10 will likely lose Dayton and possibly SLU to the Big East. When that happens, I think Temple will return and you have a conference that is geographically tighter.

I hate to say this but it’s probably one of the other, not both. The Big East schools all like those frequent trips to the big East Coast markets and playing storied names like Villanova and Georgetown. If the Big East gets too big, those trips/visits will become less frequent.

(03-14-2022 09:17 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-13-2022 10:05 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  East west you have Virginia & North Carolina, to Ohio to Kentucky to Illinois to Missouri to Kansas. A good geographical conference configuration.

No true NE schools and no true southern schools. Only the state of Indiana is left out.

Here's the thing that I think a lot of conference realignment observers miss: academic leaders at schools WANT to be associated with the Northeast. The Northeast is to academia as Texas and Florida are to football. That is always going to be the case. It's why SLU and Dayton haven't wanted to have anything to do with the MVC - the Midwestern focus is a *negative* to them and Loyola Chicago was thrilled with getting into a more Eastern-focused league. The East Coast is a big time feature for university presidents (as opposed to a bug) and the A-10 has poaching power over every league in the Eastern and Central Time Zones outside of the FBS leagues, Big East and Ivy League.

Yet the NE schools themselves aren’t very successful these days in sports. In fact, the Major NE schools have mostly joined midwestern conferences (Big 10 & Big 12) and southern conferences (ACC) to stay relevant. The schools that couldn’t get an invite like UConn, UMASS and Temple are terrible in football. 2 of 3 of those schools plus Buffalo would take a FB only invite to the AAC in a second. A southern conference. Temple’s already there. I’ll take your word on the academics part of this as I don’t know as much on that as you.