(01-25-2022 07:06 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  With the WAC, CAA, and MVC making their moves, several new conference are on the clock. What will each do (if anything)?

1. WCC
2. C-USA
3. MAAC
4. Big Sky
5. A-Sun
6. Horizon
7. Ohio Valley
8. Big South
9. America East
10. Southland

Bolded seem most likely to make a move in the next few months.

C-USA needs to add 3 now to get to 12 and add NDSU and SDSU for football only.
MAAC will raid NEC for LIU and Merrimack.
Big Sky might need to look at Central Washington and Western Oregon. Portland State is on the verge as a possibility to drop football. Western Oregon and Central Washington could help save on the cost of travel for them.
ASUN needs to go after the GSC schools and maybe a North Carolina A&T.
Horizon won't be able to get Belleramine since their goal is SoCon. They have to go after St. Thomas Minn, Southern Indiana, Wayne State, Indianapolis and Grand Valley State. Schools in OVC are way down on the list.
Big South could get UNC-Pembroke, Carson-Newman and the likes.
AEC needs to get the large good academic schools in D2 to be brought up. Queens in New York fits.
Southland needs to go after Arkansas Tech, Harding, Central Oklahoma, Midwestern State, Angelo State, Delta State, Mississippi College, Kingsville and UTPB.
WAC needs to go after West Texas A&M, UTPB, Colorado Mesa, Eastern New Mexico and Angelo State.

1. WCC - pass. Cal Baptist isn't ready for primetime, and GCU will probably be a third rail for many years.
2. C-USA - if a competent FCS upgrade presents themselves, take them, but no rush.
3. MAAC - Pass. No need to go above 10 members.
4. Big Sky - pass. No need to move unless if they get below 8 full members.
5. A-Sun - not sure why they haven't announced a sixth yet for football, but they may be waiting on the CAA/Big South/MEAC fallout if they intend to setup any affiliate members in football.
6. Horizon - doesn't have to move, but Bellarmine is a heavy favorite here. I don't see any advantage to moving further.
7. Ohio Valley - needs to pivot to a non-football conference yesterday, or tell Little Rock and SIUE to put on their pads and helmets, and Morehead State to get out of the Pioneer League.
8. Big South - needs to decide whether football is still worth it. My guess is that North Carolina A&T doesn't want to go back to the MEAC, so the Big South delivers the knockout blow to the MEAC.
9. America East - pass for now. If a competent Division II upgrade presents themselves, go for it, if not, remain at eight members.
10. Southland - OK for now, but probably needs to start looking 2 years out. Not much to work with besides Lone Star Conference schools in Division II - unless if the OVC falls apart, which might get them into Arkansas and Tennessee.

(01-25-2022 08:41 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 08:31 PM)inutech Wrote:  Why is CUSA on the clock?

We have the perfect number of schools for a football conference.

to get to 10 for basketball to be able to play 18 conference games. And be able to have all teams in football able to play conference games the same day later in the season.

That doesn't seem worth trading the perfect round robin football schedule and the lower denominator for dividing conference revenue. Not for what the options would be.

Different priorities, I guess.

(01-25-2022 09:00 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 07:06 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  With the WAC, CAA, and MVC making their moves, several new conference are on the clock. What will each do (if anything)?

1. WCC
2. C-USA
3. MAAC
4. Big Sky
5. A-Sun
6. Horizon
7. Ohio Valley
8. Big South
9. America East
10. Southland

Bolded seem most likely to make a move in the next few months.

C-USA needs to add 3 now to get to 12 and add NDSU and SDSU for football only.

Needs to?

I think we define "need" differently.

(01-25-2022 09:27 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 08:41 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 08:31 PM)inutech Wrote:  Why is CUSA on the clock?

We have the perfect number of schools for a football conference.

to get to 10 for basketball to be able to play 18 conference games. And be able to have all teams in football able to play conference games the same day later in the season.

That doesn't seem worth trading the perfect round robin football schedule and the lower denominator for dividing conference revenue. Not for what the options would be.

Different priorities, I guess.

It's also about protecting their blindside. If realignment dominoes happen again and the league is left with 3-4 teams, there is no Liberty or NMSU ready to bail the league out. It likely wouldn't be feasible to add 4-5 FCS programs all on the short notice.

ASUN has 6 for this year as Jax St does leave until 23.
Getting 6 for 23 is the next step.

(01-25-2022 09:32 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 09:27 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 08:41 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 08:31 PM)inutech Wrote:  Why is CUSA on the clock?

We have the perfect number of schools for a football conference.

to get to 10 for basketball to be able to play 18 conference games. And be able to have all teams in football able to play conference games the same day later in the season.

That doesn't seem worth trading the perfect round robin football schedule and the lower denominator for dividing conference revenue. Not for what the options would be.

Different priorities, I guess.

It's also about protecting their blindside. If realignment dominoes happen again and the league is left with 3-4 teams, there is no Liberty or NMSU ready to bail the league out. It likely wouldn't be feasible to add 4-5 FCS programs all on the short notice.

Obviously each school you add is theoretically one less to add should you drop below 8 again, but 10 barely protects you more than 9 (while messing up your football schedule and your lower denominator). Not worth it to me.

(01-25-2022 08:31 PM)inutech Wrote:  Why is CUSA on the clock?

We have the perfect number of schools for a football conference.

Because Shizzle created the topic and for no other reason.

WCC is having an up year thanks to San Francisco. BYU is n departing for another year. There is ino way they add somebody that Gmzaga is not fully in favor of; and it is hard to see any school potentially available that the Zags would approve of. There is no threat t lose any school not named Gonzaga in the next decade. Given all that you have to conclude the WCC will most likely do nothing other than stand pat as long as Gonzaga remains.

As for the Big Sky losing SUU, the phrase addition by subtraction seems most apt. Almost immediately after absorbing those Great West schools there was remorse. The self exit of the two Great West schools they most wanted to exit leaves the Big Sky much more compact and cohesive, with a nice 12 football (extra California exposure) 10 basketball setup.

It is highly unlikely any changes happen for awhile in the West, beyond the WAC maybe finding a 14th school from the D-II rans

(01-25-2022 09:00 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 07:06 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  With the WAC, CAA, and MVC making their moves, several new conference are on the clock. What will each do (if anything)?

1. WCC
2. C-USA
3. MAAC
4. Big Sky
5. A-Sun
6. Horizon
7. Ohio Valley
8. Big South
9. America East
10. Southland

Bolded seem most likely to make a move in the next few months.

C-USA needs to add 3 now to get to 12 and add NDSU and SDSU for football only.
MAAC will raid NEC for LIU and Merrimack.
Big Sky might need to look at Central Washington and Western Oregon. Portland State is on the verge as a possibility to drop football. Western Oregon and Central Washington could help save on the cost of travel for them.
ASUN needs to go after the GSC schools and maybe a North Carolina A&T.
Horizon won't be able to get Belleramine since their goal is SoCon. They have to go after St. Thomas Minn, Southern Indiana, Wayne State, Indianapolis and Grand Valley State. Schools in OVC are way down on the list.
Big South could get UNC-Pembroke, Carson-Newman and the likes.
AEC needs to get the large good academic schools in D2 to be brought up. Queens in New York fits.
Southland needs to go after Arkansas Tech, Harding, Central Oklahoma, Midwestern State, Angelo State, Delta State, Mississippi College, Kingsville and UTPB.
WAC needs to go after West Texas A&M, UTPB, Colorado Mesa, Eastern New Mexico and Angelo State.

Conference USA doesn't need to add anyone, David. Besides, once the SEC spears forward with Pay-for-Play and the most elite Autonomy schools follow them into their new subdivision, it is unlikely that any Gang of 5 conference schools will be included. So I ask again. Why add teams now when 1. Nine full members is fine, and 2. The FBS subdivision is going to be ripped to shreds anyway?

(01-25-2022 09:00 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  1. WCC - pass. Cal Baptist isn't ready for primetime, and GCU will probably be a third rail for many years.
2. C-USA - if a competent FCS upgrade presents themselves, take them, but no rush.
3. MAAC - Pass. No need to go above 10 members.
4. Big Sky - pass. No need to move unless if they get below 8 full members.
5. A-Sun - not sure why they haven't announced a sixth yet for football, but they may be waiting on the CAA/Big South/MEAC fallout if they intend to setup any affiliate members in football.
6. Horizon - doesn't have to move, but Bellarmine is a heavy favorite here. I don't see any advantage to moving further.
7. Ohio Valley - needs to pivot to a non-football conference yesterday, or tell Little Rock and SIUE to put on their pads and helmets, and Morehead State to get out of the Pioneer League.
8. Big South - needs to decide whether football is still worth it. My guess is that North Carolina A&T doesn't want to go back to the MEAC, so the Big South delivers the knockout blow to the MEAC.
9. America East - pass for now. If a competent Division II upgrade presents themselves, go for it, if not, remain at eight members.
10. Southland - OK for now, but probably needs to start looking 2 years out. Not much to work with besides Lone Star Conference schools in Division II - unless if the OVC falls apart, which might get them into Arkansas and Tennessee.

I'm sure CUSA will want at least 10
MAAC just said last wk they want to go to 12
I don't think AEC will sit at 8, they'll probably take 1 or both of Merrimack and/or LIU. Maybe them and whoever the MAAC take that has football fill up the Big South w/ fb affiliates.

To me, Patriot is always on a watch list, if even only for a football affiliate. But, since it seems like the eye of their needle is so small, and having been rebuffed, they’d rather awkwardly wait on that front than compromise.

(01-25-2022 10:11 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  WCC is having an up year thanks to San Francisco. BYU is n departing for another year. There is ino way they add somebody that Gmzaga is not fully in favor of; and it is hard to see any school potentially available that the Zags would approve of. There is no threat t lose any school not named Gonzaga in the next decade. Given all that you have to conclude the WCC will most likely do nothing other than stand pat as long as Gonzaga remains.

As for the Big Sky losing SUU, the phrase addition by subtraction seems most apt. Almost immediately after absorbing those Great West schools there was remorse. The self exit of the two Great West schools they most wanted to exit leaves the Big Sky much more compact and cohesive, with a nice 12 football (extra California exposure) 10 basketball setup.

It is highly unlikely any changes happen for awhile in the West, beyond the WAC maybe finding a 14th school from the D-II rans

Southern Utah wasn’t in the Great West Conference. They were in the Summit League (formerly Mid-Continent Conference) with UMKC, Oral Roberts, Western Illinois, Centenary College, Chicago State, IUPUI, Oakland, Valparaiso.

I don’t think Southern Utah leaving the Big Sky was a great idea given the instability of the WAC, but being in a conference with Dixie State, UVU, Cal Baptist & even Grand Canyon must be a benefit.

And while Southern Utah isn’t an addition to the conference, they have a better track record in basketball & football than Sacramento State, Northern Colorado, and lately Idaho State & Idaho do.

(01-25-2022 11:53 PM)AuzGrams Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 10:11 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  WCC is having an up year thanks to San Francisco. BYU is n departing for another year. There is ino way they add somebody that Gmzaga is not fully in favor of; and it is hard to see any school potentially available that the Zags would approve of. There is no threat t lose any school not named Gonzaga in the next decade. Given all that you have to conclude the WCC will most likely do nothing other than stand pat as long as Gonzaga remains.

As for the Big Sky losing SUU, the phrase addition by subtraction seems most apt. Almost immediately after absorbing those Great West schools there was remorse. The self exit of the two Great West schools they most wanted to exit leaves the Big Sky much more compact and cohesive, with a nice 12 football (extra California exposure) 10 basketball setup.

It is highly unlikely any changes happen for awhile in the West, beyond the WAC maybe finding a 14th school from the D-II rans

Southern Utah wasn’t in the Great West Conference. They were in the Summit League (formerly Mid-Continent Conference) with UMKC, Oral Roberts, Western Illinois, Centenary College, Chicago State, IUPUI, Oakland, Valparaiso.

I don’t think Southern Utah leaving the Big Sky was a great idea given the instability of the WAC, but being in a conference with Dixie State, UVU, Cal Baptist & even Grand Canyon must be a benefit.

And while Southern Utah isn’t an addition to the conference, they have a better track record in basketball & football than Sacramento State, Northern Colorado, and lately Idaho State & Idaho do.

S.Utah was an original member of the GW Football conference. Not for all sports which didn't exist until 4 yrs after it was a football only conference.

American West had S.Utah, CP, CSUN, UCD, Sac St. in the mid 90s for all sports.

SUU, Cal Poly, UCD, NoCo, UND were playing in the Great West Football, I think along with USD (South DaKota) who joined the Summit and MVFC. The others joined the Big Sky. The California schools were football only, staying in the Big West.

North Dakota was a weird one, as Big Sky's Fullerton had a crazy notion of making the conference a super conference of FCS, expanding into the Great Plains (North Dakota). North Dakota, which basically recruits students and players from the Plains and Upper Great Lakes, especially Minnesota, tried to sell the idea they were Western (mostly it seems to avoid playing in the same conference as NDSU). The geography was a disaster almost immediately, withe every single Big Sky AD complaining about the travel to Fargo. Eventually UND made the sensible decision they should have made five years prior, moving to the Summit and MVFC, as South Dakota did from the start.

The California football schools work fine, giving every school a trip to California where they recruit. And they do not create a basketball and Olympic schedule problem since they are Big West schools (with sports like Men's Volleyball and Water Polo that don't fit the Big Sky).

SUU was always seen as an institutional misfit, not really at the same standards as the others. I think SUU and UND got the message that they maybe didn't belong. They both made smart moves to go where they fit better.

NoCo is fine, Colorado is nice, helps some recruiting. There is neither a push them out nor a celebration having them. But as a 10th they make things work much better in scheduling. Put another way, the current setup is pretty much as good as it gets for the Big Sky, nobody is pushing to change it.

(01-26-2022 12:45 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 11:53 PM)AuzGrams Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 10:11 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  WCC is having an up year thanks to San Francisco. BYU is n departing for another year. There is ino way they add somebody that Gmzaga is not fully in favor of; and it is hard to see any school potentially available that the Zags would approve of. There is no threat t lose any school not named Gonzaga in the next decade. Given all that you have to conclude the WCC will most likely do nothing other than stand pat as long as Gonzaga remains.

As for the Big Sky losing SUU, the phrase addition by subtraction seems most apt. Almost immediately after absorbing those Great West schools there was remorse. The self exit of the two Great West schools they most wanted to exit leaves the Big Sky much more compact and cohesive, with a nice 12 football (extra California exposure) 10 basketball setup.

It is highly unlikely any changes happen for awhile in the West, beyond the WAC maybe finding a 14th school from the D-II rans

Southern Utah wasn’t in the Great West Conference. They were in the Summit League (formerly Mid-Continent Conference) with UMKC, Oral Roberts, Western Illinois, Centenary College, Chicago State, IUPUI, Oakland, Valparaiso.

I don’t think Southern Utah leaving the Big Sky was a great idea given the instability of the WAC, but being in a conference with Dixie State, UVU, Cal Baptist & even Grand Canyon must be a benefit.

And while Southern Utah isn’t an addition to the conference, they have a better track record in basketball & football than Sacramento State, Northern Colorado, and lately Idaho State & Idaho do.

S.Utah was an original member of the GW Football conference. Not for all sports which didn't exist until 4 yrs after it was a football only conference.

Ah yeah, I just don’t agree with the statement that SUU is an addition by subtraction when they’re usually better than Sac State, Idaho State, Northern Colorado, and even Idaho. I don’t think the academics are much better or worse at SUU than a few of them either.

Of course Cedar City isn’t really a recruiting hot bed and 11 teams is lot for a 1 bid league.

SUU football & BB is pretty hit and miss. They have times of looking good and making the tournament/playoffs. Football has looked quite a bit better in the Big Sky.

(01-25-2022 08:47 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 07:58 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 07:55 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 07:48 PM)Midwestan Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 07:30 PM)stever20 Wrote:  With BYU gone they're down to 9. Don't know that they want to return to a double round robin at only 9 or move down to 14 conference games. They'll probably add a team some time here in the next year.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Gonzaga. The WCC accommodated the Bulldogs by cutting its conference schedule from 18 to 16 games so the Zags could schedule a couple of tougher non-conference opponents to replace 2 of the weakest WCC schools. Would they be willing to join the Mountain West Conference for basketball only (similar to Hawaii being in the MWC for football)? Would the West Coast Conference be OK with them leaving for just one men's and women's sport, but staying for the rest? Gonzaga and Brigham Young were said to be in talks to join the MWC a few years ago, but the deal fell apart because many MWC schools thought BYU burned too many bridges by leaving several years earlier.

Then again, Gonzaga could stay pat. The conference could stay with 9 members, or it could expand. Seattle University would seem to be a no-brainer here, although their campus facility for hoops only holds about a thousand fans. If the WCC wanted to go to 12, it could court religious-affiliated schools like Cal Baptist and Denver too, but I don't know how much interest there is from CBU and DU to leave their respective leagues.

Have Seattle, Cal Baptist, or Denver ever made the NCAA Division 1 Men's Basketball Tournament before? They're just an extra mouth to feed. The only benefit Seattle or Denver get is a market grab and Gonzaga probably has more fans in Seattle than the University of Seattle.

The WCC is better standing pat than adding an extra mouth to feed that doesn't add to the conference. Still think Gonzaga is better off leaving for the MWC.

Seattle went to a Final 4. Granted it was when Elgin Baylor was playing there but still...

They lost to Kentucky in the championship in 1958.
Loyola's history in the final 4 was almost as far back and the Atlantic 10 was interested.

Loyola's history in the Final Four was 2018! They also made the Sweet 16 last year (at my Illini's expense)! If your last Final Four was before I was born, pass.

(01-25-2022 07:55 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 07:48 PM)Midwestan Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 07:30 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 07:21 PM)AuzGrams Wrote:  Why is the WCC on the clock? Is Gonzaga leaving?

With BYU gone they're down to 9. Don't know that they want to return to a double round robin at only 9 or move down to 14 conference games. They'll probably add a team some time here in the next year.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Gonzaga. The WCC accommodated the Bulldogs by cutting its conference schedule from 18 to 16 games so the Zags could schedule a couple of tougher non-conference opponents to replace 2 of the weakest WCC schools. Would they be willing to join the Mountain West Conference for basketball only (similar to Hawaii being in the MWC for football)? Would the West Coast Conference be OK with them leaving for just one men's and women's sport, but staying for the rest? Gonzaga and Brigham Young were said to be in talks to join the MWC a few years ago, but the deal fell apart because many MWC schools thought BYU burned too many bridges by leaving several years earlier.

Then again, Gonzaga could stay pat. The conference could stay with 9 members, or it could expand. Seattle University would seem to be a no-brainer here, although their campus facility for hoops only holds about a thousand fans. If the WCC wanted to go to 12, it could court religious-affiliated schools like Cal Baptist and Denver too, but I don't know how much interest there is from CBU and DU to leave their respective leagues.

Have Seattle, Cal Baptist, or Denver ever made the NCAA Division 1 Men's Basketball Tournament before? They're just an extra mouth to feed. The only benefit Seattle or Denver get is a market grab and Gonzaga probably has more fans in Seattle than the University of Seattle.

The WCC is better standing pat than adding an extra mouth to feed that doesn't add to the conference. Still think Gonzaga is better off leaving for the MWC.

Seattle is at least a cultural fit and does have some decent basketball history before they moved down from DI, and does bring a decent sized market with an interesting recruiting appeal of playing in Climate Pledge Arena.

They also do have some utility as a travel partner for Gonzaga and Portland to an extent as well. Adding them could effectively give the WCC three "cores" of teams: Southern California (Pepperdine, Loyola Marymount, San Diego), Bay Area/Northern California (San Francisco, St Mary's, Santa Clara, Pacific), and Pacific Northwest: (Portland, Gonzaga, Seattle).

Obviously their basketball program is not particularly great at the moment and not having a decent sized on campus arena (their current facility seats like 900 IIRC) hurts, but there is some logic in adding them at least.

ASun, and Big South are going to have to act

OVC needs to do something as well with WIU if they want to save their football league.