Anyone who's followed the New York higher education system knows how big of a deal this is. For decades, it was established that New York had four "university centers" on essentially equal footing (Stony Brook, Buffalo, Binghamton and Albany) and no formally designated flagship school.

Well, new governor Kathy Hochul said, "to hell with that" and officially proclaimed Stony Brook (and Buffalo) as the flagship schools of New York state, effectively putting us as the Cal/UCLA duo of New York (except I don't think California actually officially designated anything).

To show her dedication to the mission, she gave both Stony Brook and Buffalo $100 million for new academic buildings. It is unclear exactly what this means for sports, but it's an acknowledgement that Stony Brook and Buffalo are the 1a/1b of New York and that Binghamton and Albany are the 3a/3b - a tier below.

Now comes the official push to give Stony Brook a flagship-level athletic program, hopefully. The Seawolves have been waiting for a while. I would love if this means we can also get rid of Stony Brook athletic director Shawn Heilbron, who is the definition of "all talk, no substance."

https://www.buffalo.edu/home/story-repos...etail.html

Statement from the universities.

Personally, I don't think this will mean much, at least not athletically.

"Flagship" status is a function of out-of-state perceptions as much as in-state official proclamations. IMO, from an OOS perspective, the NY public college system remains a disarticulated amalgam with no clear hierarchy or center.

The point of declaring a flagship was to establish the hierarchy: Stony Brook and Buffalo are the centers of New York public universities. Everything else is beneath them.

(01-06-2022 03:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Personally, I don't think this will mean much, at least not athletically.

"Flagship" status is a function of out-of-state perceptions as much as in-state official proclamations. IMO, from an OOS perspective, the NY public college system remains a disarticulated amalgam with no clear hierarchy or center.

When your land grant school is a private Ivy League school, it's tough to actually have a public flagship.

(01-06-2022 03:58 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 03:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Personally, I don't think this will mean much, at least not athletically.

"Flagship" status is a function of out-of-state perceptions as much as in-state official proclamations. IMO, from an OOS perspective, the NY public college system remains a disarticulated amalgam with no clear hierarchy or center.

When your land grant school is a private Ivy League school, it's tough to actually have a public flagship.

I agree. New York is one of those states, like several other New England states, where the notion of a "public flagship" just doesn't make much sense, given the number of elite private schools in the region.

And IMO it is the presence of the elite privates that explains why New York has always had a disjointed non-hierarchical public college system. And you can't buck that naturally evolved system by declaring flagships in to existence, IMO.

Now let’s get the MAC to invite Stony Brook and bring along Western Kentucky, who can escape C-USA and screw over MTSU in one fell swoop.

East: Stony Brook, Buffalo, Kent State, Akron, Ohio, Miami (OH), Western Kentucky

West: Toledo, Bowling Green, Eastern Michigan, Central Michigan, Western Michigan, Ball State, Northern Illinois.

(01-06-2022 04:06 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  Now let’s get the MAC to invite Stony Brook and bring along Western Kentucky, who can escape C-USA and screw over MTSU in one fell swoop.

East: Stony Brook, Buffalo, Kent State, Akron, Ohio, Miami (OH), Western Kentucky

West: Toledo, Bowling Green, Eastern Michigan, Central Michigan, Western Michigan, Ball State, Northern Illinois.

Yes my first thought in response to this news.

(01-06-2022 04:12 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 04:06 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  Now let’s get the MAC to invite Stony Brook and bring along Western Kentucky, who can escape C-USA and screw over MTSU in one fell swoop.

East: Stony Brook, Buffalo, Kent State, Akron, Ohio, Miami (OH), Western Kentucky

West: Toledo, Bowling Green, Eastern Michigan, Central Michigan, Western Michigan, Ball State, Northern Illinois.

Yes my first thought in response to this news.

Mine too. Although wouldn’t Long Island stretch the footprint too much?

(01-06-2022 04:17 PM)BKTopper Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 04:12 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 04:06 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  Now let’s get the MAC to invite Stony Brook and bring along Western Kentucky, who can escape C-USA and screw over MTSU in one fell swoop.

East: Stony Brook, Buffalo, Kent State, Akron, Ohio, Miami (OH), Western Kentucky

West: Toledo, Bowling Green, Eastern Michigan, Central Michigan, Western Michigan, Ball State, Northern Illinois.

Yes my first thought in response to this news.

Mine too. Although wouldn’t Long Island stretch the footprint too much?

Not as much as UMass.

(01-06-2022 03:58 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 03:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Personally, I don't think this will mean much, at least not athletically.

"Flagship" status is a function of out-of-state perceptions as much as in-state official proclamations. IMO, from an OOS perspective, the NY public college system remains a disarticulated amalgam with no clear hierarchy or center.

When your land grant school is a private Ivy League school, it's tough to actually have a public flagship.

Cornell actually has 4 "state" colleges. Syracuse has a couple right next door but that aren't actually part of Syracuse.

(01-06-2022 03:56 PM)WolfCrashpad Wrote:  The point of declaring a flagship was to establish the hierarchy: Stony Brook and Buffalo are the centers of New York public universities. Everything else is beneath them.

They need to change their name to signify that status. University of Michigan, North Carolina, California, etc.

University of Buffalo sounds like Fresno State even though knowledgeable posters know it’s not. Image matters.

(01-06-2022 05:01 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 03:56 PM)WolfCrashpad Wrote:  The point of declaring a flagship was to establish the hierarchy: Stony Brook and Buffalo are the centers of New York public universities. Everything else is beneath them.

They need to change their name to signify that status. University of Michigan, North Carolina, California, etc.

University of Buffalo sounds like Fresno State even though knowledgeable posters know it’s not. Image matters.

Buffalo did the University of New York branding a few years ago. Nobody in the CFB world bought it.

It's hard when "New York University" was already taken by a private (I assume to refer to New York as the city, not the state, but regardless). Pennsylvania has the same problem with UPenn. Rutgers gets by fine as Rutgers, legally "Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey".

It's just a weird Northeast quirk. There's not many options to rebrand Stony Brook as without running into NYU confusion. Buffalo tried the whole "New York Bulls" thing a few years back and got laughed at.

(01-06-2022 04:20 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 04:17 PM)BKTopper Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 04:12 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 04:06 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  Now let’s get the MAC to invite Stony Brook and bring along Western Kentucky, who can escape C-USA and screw over MTSU in one fell swoop.

East: Stony Brook, Buffalo, Kent State, Akron, Ohio, Miami (OH), Western Kentucky

West: Toledo, Bowling Green, Eastern Michigan, Central Michigan, Western Michigan, Ball State, Northern Illinois.

Yes my first thought in response to this news.

Mine too. Although wouldn’t Long Island stretch the footprint too much?

Not as much as UMass.

UMass is closer to Buffalo than Stony Brook is by about 60 miles.

(01-06-2022 04:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I agree. New York is one of those states, like several other New England states, where the notion of a "public flagship" just doesn't make much sense, given the number of elite private schools in the region.

Eh, every New England state has a defined "University of" that recognized as the primary/flagship state school. They may not be the premier academic institution in the state, but they're all good and all relatively big (State U in a small state is only going to be so big). It's really just a New York thing.

(01-06-2022 05:22 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 04:06 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  Now let’s get the MAC to invite Stony Brook and bring along Western Kentucky, who can escape C-USA and screw over MTSU in one fell swoop.

East: Stony Brook, Buffalo, Kent State, Akron, Ohio, Miami (OH), Western Kentucky

West: Toledo, Bowling Green, Eastern Michigan, Central Michigan, Western Michigan, Ball State, Northern Illinois.

Your first response once Stony Brook was classified as a “Flagship” of the SUNY schools was, hey, they should join the MAC? Lol.

Honestly, the MAC finally getting their east coast expansion with long-term full members should be Stony Brook's goal.

When does Albany rebrand to "New York State"?

(01-06-2022 05:01 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 03:56 PM)WolfCrashpad Wrote:  The point of declaring a flagship was to establish the hierarchy: Stony Brook and Buffalo are the centers of New York public universities. Everything else is beneath them.

They need to change their name to signify that status. University of Michigan, North Carolina, California, etc.

I'm not sure this is that important. People know UCLA is a good school, even though it is a directional.

I'm with those who think Stony Brook could be a very good addition for the MAC.

(It would make even more sense if we could also get Massachusetts in all sports.)

(01-06-2022 04:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I agree. New York is one of those states, like several other New England states, where the notion of a "public flagship" just doesn't make much sense, given the number of elite private schools in the region.

And IMO it is the presence of the elite privates that explains why New York has always had a disjointed non-hierarchical public college system. And you can't buck that naturally evolved system by declaring flagships in to existence, IMO.

Every state in New England has a clear flagship. The states where the idea breaks down are in the mid-Atlantic: New York and Pennsylvania. There is some nuance to the situation in Ohio, Louisiana, and Delaware, but I think they have a clear flagship. I'm not quite sure what to make of Nevada or Alaska, though. They both have a designated flagship, but the "little brothers" have significantly higher enrollments and are in cities with significantly higher populations. To me they are comparable in prestige and recognizability, but maybe some Nevada fan will come along and tell me that I'm an idiot.

(01-06-2022 05:46 PM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 04:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I agree. New York is one of those states, like several other New England states, where the notion of a "public flagship" just doesn't make much sense, given the number of elite private schools in the region.

And IMO it is the presence of the elite privates that explains why New York has always had a disjointed non-hierarchical public college system. And you can't buck that naturally evolved system by declaring flagships in to existence, IMO.

Every state in New England has a clear flagship. The states where the idea breaks down are in the mid-Atlantic: New York and Pennsylvania. There is some nuance to the situation in Ohio, Louisiana, and Delaware, but I think they have a clear flagship. I'm not quite sure what to make of Nevada or Alaska, though. They both have a designated flagship, but the "little brothers" have significantly higher enrollments and are in cities with significantly higher populations. To me they are comparable in prestige and recognizability, but maybe some Nevada fan will come along and tell me that I'm an idiot.

IMO, there is no nuance in Ohio and Louisiana, Ohio State and LSU are the clear-cut public flagships in those states.

Especially for athletic purposes.