(11-02-2021 09:04 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 09:01 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 08:13 PM)Huan Wrote:  Yet AAC and SBC went to 14, MAC looking at 14.
The cfp payout appears not to inhibit conferences from taking more than 10.

I think CUSA will go to at least 10, likely 12; but wouldn’t be shocked to see 14.
Inventory.

That would be great, if they can figure out some way to generate enough broadcasting revenue to make that possible.

$0 / 8 or $0 / 14 pretty much the same number

Do you have a particular interest in how CUSA takes shape? Because you're about 0/ 20 on useful comments that I've read. And 0/20 is how much St Johns has kicked into the conference in the last 20 years+ for all those big tournament wins you don't have.

Anyway, I can see divisional play being a reason to take a certain number of achools, be it 12 or 14, but as hedging against future defection possibilities, as noted above, is certainly no guarantee. For that reason, I'd rather keep it a lower number, than any future members can be vetted more. Taking FCS schools called up on short notice is a risky move.

(11-02-2021 01:52 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I guess I'm confused. If CUSA loses two (WKU and MTSU), it's down to three. If it adds four, it's at seven. It needs eight for football only. So CUSA, on paper, should be willing to have UConn join with no concessions.

They need #8, but it has to be a full member, not a FB-only. On the bright side for CUSA, the commissioner has apparently been contacted by 30 different FCS schools that want to join the CUSA, so it sounds like they're going to be in good shape.

It still might make sense for UConn and UMass to join as FB members, though.

.

BTW Bill, I just discovered this on youtube. I like it alot, and it seems like it might be right up your alley.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRipadkd6wk

(11-02-2021 09:10 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 08:05 PM)Huan Wrote:  12 would give CUSA an opportunity to propose a scheduling agreement with the big 12 and or the MWC

What scheduling agreement might that be? Why would the Big 12 want to schedule CUSA teams? They already do that, there called buy games.

Yes.

Currently the big 12 plays 3 OOC games : usually 0-1 fcs, 1-2 g5 and 1-2 p5. Their schedule will be in flux starting in 2023. Games against other p5 and big 12 conference games will take precedence and likely some games against fcs and g5 will have to be canceled. CUSA could step up and fill their scheduling holes. The two conferences will have significant geographic overlaps: Texas, Florida, Ohio valley, Great Plains. And every g5 games the CUSA gets with the big12 is one game less that the other g5 teams won’t be paid for.

Just an idea how having 12 - 14 may provide flexibility with inventory.

(11-02-2021 07:27 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 07:21 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 06:46 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 05:57 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  I thought we would be hearing at least 1 more school being added to CUSA today. I hope there's at least 1 more FCS ready to join them.

According to Dennis Dodd about 30 fcs schools want to be the 8th choice. You would think out of that number, a few will be good to go.

2 of the 30 are Sam Houston State and Jacksonville State. This is my count.

1 AEC Stony Brook
4 ASUN Jacksonville State, UCA, UNA, EKU
1 A10 Dayton
1 Big Sky Idaho
1 Big South North Carolina A&T
2 CAA Delaware, Towson
1 Horizon Youngstown State
5 MVC Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, Indiana State
2 OVC Murray State, Tennessee State
1 SoCon Chattanooga
3 SWAC Jackson State, Texas Southern (Houston market), Florida A&M
2 Summit North Dakota State, South Dakota State
5 WAC Sam Houston State, SFAU, Lamar, ACU, Tarleton State

Pick and choose.

I can see quite a few of those having reached out, but you left out UMass, who absolutely 100% reached out to CUSA to be a football-only affiliate. The AD Bramford even showed the brochure they sent to the CUSA office and member institutions in an interview he recently gave.

UMass is already FBS. This is 30 FCS schools reacing out.

(11-02-2021 08:14 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 07:27 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 07:21 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 06:46 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 05:57 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  I thought we would be hearing at least 1 more school being added to CUSA today. I hope there's at least 1 more FCS ready to join them.

According to Dennis Dodd about 30 fcs schools want to be the 8th choice. You would think out of that number, a few will be good to go.

2 of the 30 are Sam Houston State and Jacksonville State. This is my count.

1 AEC Stony Brook
4 ASUN Jacksonville State, UCA, UNA, EKU
1 A10 Dayton
1 Big Sky Idaho
1 Big South North Carolina A&T
2 CAA Delaware, Towson
1 Horizon Youngstown State
5 MVC Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, Indiana State
2 OVC Murray State, Tennessee State
1 SoCon Chattanooga
3 SWAC Jackson State, Texas Southern (Houston market), Florida A&M
2 Summit North Dakota State, South Dakota State
5 WAC Sam Houston State, SFAU, Lamar, ACU, Tarleton State

Pick and choose.

I can see quite a few of those having reached out, but you left out UMass, who absolutely 100% reached out to CUSA to be a football-only affiliate. The AD Bramford even showed the brochure they sent to the CUSA office and member institutions in an interview he recently gave.

1) DavidSt needs to quit making Stony Brook to FBS happen. It's not happening. UAlbany would be more likely since they can expand their stadium to FBS capacity mire easily. Plus, Stony Brook is further out LI than folks from outside of NY realize. It's an hour drive to Queens.

2) UMass is FBS already, at least on paper. Also, nobody wants to take a team Football only unless they bring a ton if money and eyes to the table or are a traditional rival of the entire conference like Hawaii was.

Stony Brook have a 12,000 plus stadium and can be expanded quicker than Albany's would.

(11-03-2021 12:22 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 07:27 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 07:21 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 06:46 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 05:57 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  I thought we would be hearing at least 1 more school being added to CUSA today. I hope there's at least 1 more FCS ready to join them.

According to Dennis Dodd about 30 fcs schools want to be the 8th choice. You would think out of that number, a few will be good to go.

2 of the 30 are Sam Houston State and Jacksonville State. This is my count.

1 AEC Stony Brook
4 ASUN Jacksonville State, UCA, UNA, EKU
1 A10 Dayton
1 Big Sky Idaho
1 Big South North Carolina A&T
2 CAA Delaware, Towson
1 Horizon Youngstown State
5 MVC Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, Indiana State
2 OVC Murray State, Tennessee State
1 SoCon Chattanooga
3 SWAC Jackson State, Texas Southern (Houston market), Florida A&M
2 Summit North Dakota State, South Dakota State
5 WAC Sam Houston State, SFAU, Lamar, ACU, Tarleton State

Pick and choose.

I can see quite a few of those having reached out, but you left out UMass, who absolutely 100% reached out to CUSA to be a football-only affiliate. The AD Bramford even showed the brochure they sent to the CUSA office and member institutions in an interview he recently gave.

UMass is already FBS. This is 30 FCS schools reacing out.

According to the article in question:

Quote:Sources tell CBS Sports that Conference USA commissioner Judy MacLeod has received calls from up to 30 prospective members to fill that eighth spot.

Article doesn't say all 30 are FCS schools. With that said, UMass is likely one of them, but they wouldn't help the league retain compliance as an FBS-sponsoring conference needing 8 full members, so the 8th will likely come from FCS....or lower. I am 99% sure Division II Tarleton State has also reached out.

I wouldn't be surprised if Arlington and Little Rock from the Sun Belt are somehow counted in that 30 number, as well.

Full member means voting member, fully vested.

You can be all sports and still an affiliated. Chicago State's entire tenure in the WAC was as a contract affiliate. Navy on the other hand is a full member but only in football for the American Athletic. Similarly Hawaii in the Mountain West. Such members cannot be booted except for non-compliance. Note UMass was a contract member with the MAC, so their being booted for not becoming a full member was easy enough.

The term used is full member, not all sports member. That is the distinction to bear in mind. If UConn is willing to be a full member, rather than an affiliate, then that could be your 8th.

(11-03-2021 04:28 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Full member means voting member, fully vested.

You can be all sports and still an affiliated. Chicago State's entire tenure in the WAC was as a contract affiliate. Navy on the other hand is a full member but only in football for the American Athletic. Similarly Hawaii in the Mountain West. Such members cannot be booted except for non-compliance. Note UMass was a contract member with the MAC, so their being booted for not becoming a full member was easy enough.

The term used is full member, not all sports member. That is the distinction to bear in mind. If UConn is willing to be a full member, rather than an affiliate, then that could be your 8th.

Interesting. Would UMass be allowed to be fully vested in CUSA as a football-only affiliate AND fully vested in the Atlantic 10 as a non-football member? It seems that the NCAA would draw the line to keep one school from voting in multiple conferences based on a sport here or a few sports there. Wow, this is really good information and certainly changes things quite a bit as far as my perception on realignment.

Posting AGAIN

As you can make out, there needs to be EIGHT football playing members that also contest at least six men's and eight women's conference sports within said conference. There's a bit more specific (i.e. need three women's team sports), but just want to spell it out for the people that are trying to understand the makeup of the WAC and/or CUSA as it relates to FBS status.

20.02.6 Football Bowl Subdivision Conference. A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the
conference schedule in at least six men's and eight women's conference-sponsored sports, including men's basketball and football and three women's team sports including women's basketball. A conference-sponsored sport shall be a sport in which regular season and/or championship opportunities are provided, consistent with the minimum standards identified by the applicable
NCAA sport committee for automatic qualification. (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

20.02.6.1 Exception. A Football Bowl Subdivision member institution shall be permitted to count as one of its required six men's sports and one of its required eight women's sports a sport in which its conference does not sponsor or conduct a championship, provided the sport is one in which it participates in another Division I multi- or single-sport conference. Different sports may be counted for men and women. (Adopted: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

20.02.6.2 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a Football Bowl Subdivision conference for two years following the date when it fails to satisfy the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision member requirement due to one or more of its member's failure to comply with the bowl subdivision membership requirements. (Adopted: 4/28/05 effective
8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

(11-03-2021 05:41 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Posting AGAIN

As you can make out, there needs to be EIGHT football playing members that also contest at least six men's and eight women's conference sports within said conference. There's a bit more specific (i.e. need three women's team sports), but just want to spell it out for the people that are trying to understand the makeup of the WAC and/or CUSA as it relates to FBS status.

20.02.6 Football Bowl Subdivision Conference. A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the
conference schedule in at least six men's and eight women's conference-sponsored sports, including men's basketball and football and three women's team sports including women's basketball. A conference-sponsored sport shall be a sport in which regular season and/or championship opportunities are provided, consistent with the minimum standards identified by the applicable
NCAA sport committee for automatic qualification. (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

20.02.6.1 Exception. A Football Bowl Subdivision member institution shall be permitted to count as one of its required six men's sports and one of its required eight women's sports a sport in which its conference does not sponsor or conduct a championship, provided the sport is one in which it participates in another Division I multi- or single-sport conference. Different sports may be counted for men and women. (Adopted: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

20.02.6.2 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a Football Bowl Subdivision conference for two years following the date when it fails to satisfy the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision member requirement due to one or more of its member's failure to comply with the bowl subdivision membership requirements. (Adopted: 4/28/05 effective
8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

That seems pretty straightforward. Would be interested to know Stugray2's interpretation. Maybe there's something somewhere else in the manual that allows a deviation from the standard or some waiver? That particular bylaw seems to define "full member" as one that participates in the minimum amount of "all-sports" considered to be a full member of a conference.

(11-03-2021 05:09 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(11-03-2021 04:28 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Full member means voting member, fully vested.

You can be all sports and still an affiliated. Chicago State's entire tenure in the WAC was as a contract affiliate. Navy on the other hand is a full member but only in football for the American Athletic. Similarly Hawaii in the Mountain West. Such members cannot be booted except for non-compliance. Note UMass was a contract member with the MAC, so their being booted for not becoming a full member was easy enough.

The term used is full member, not all sports member. That is the distinction to bear in mind. If UConn is willing to be a full member, rather than an affiliate, then that could be your 8th.

Interesting. Would UMass be allowed to be fully vested in CUSA as a football-only affiliate AND fully vested in the Atlantic 10 as a non-football member? It seems that the NCAA would draw the line to keep one school from voting in multiple conferences based on a sport here or a few sports there. Wow, this is really good information and certainly changes things quite a bit as far as my perception on realignment.

This is just a guess, but it might be both theoretically possible and yet extremely improbable for a very small (8-9 member) conference. The CUSA could add UConn as a "full" member - even as a FB-only member, but it might not be worth it to CUSA to do so if there are other NCAA requirements (pertaining to the minimal # of men's and women's sports) that might not be met if UConn were the 8th "full" member as a FB-only school.

Would getting to 8 now with plans to accept 2 schools in 2 years then 2 in 4 years be a good plan.
Allow schools to position their programs for FBS/CUSA then pick from the pool.

(11-03-2021 07:43 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  Would getting to 8 now with plans to accept 2 schools in 2 years then 2 in 4 years be a good plan.
Allow schools to position their programs for FBS/CUSA then pick from the pool.

Yes.
But programs moving up may prefer invite now with future entry.
As is the likely join date would be for the 23/24 season.

(11-03-2021 07:43 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  Would getting to 8 now with plans to accept 2 schools in 2 years then 2 in 4 years be a good plan.
Allow schools to position their programs for FBS/CUSA then pick from the pool.

As I read it.

Grace period 20.02.6.2

Next season CUSA will still be as it is now.

July 1, 2023 would start the 2 year grace period with new FCS schools in the league. The FCS schools would be in full acceptance by July 1, 2025. So they are good.

(11-02-2021 09:16 PM)Todor Wrote:  Anyway, I can see divisional play being a reason to take a certain number of achools, be it 12 or 14, but as hedging against future defection possibilities, as noted above, is certainly no guarantee.

Note that there is no longer a minimum threshold of 12 on a divisional CCG ... two divisions of five is what allows a 10 school conference to play a CCG with eight conference games under the current rules.

Quote: For that reason, I'd rather keep it a lower number, than any future members can be vetted more. Taking FCS schools called up on short notice is a risky move.

The more substantial media revenue for CUSA is their share of the Go5 pool from the CFP money, and under the current distribution, the base is ~$1m/school to a max of $10m, so adding a 9th and a 10th adds $1m per school plus whatever benefit there is in the media contract ... adding a 11th and 12th only adds the benefit in the media contract, which is likely to be quite modest.

So adding a 9th full member to make it easier to sponsor autobid competitions in subsidy sports and a FB-only 10th could be a reasonable approach, if CUSA wants to manage the risk of a large number of FCS call-ups.

(11-03-2021 02:46 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(11-03-2021 12:22 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 07:27 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 07:21 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 06:46 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  According to Dennis Dodd about 30 fcs schools want to be the 8th choice. You would think out of that number, a few will be good to go.

2 of the 30 are Sam Houston State and Jacksonville State. This is my count.

1 AEC Stony Brook
4 ASUN Jacksonville State, UCA, UNA, EKU
1 A10 Dayton
1 Big Sky Idaho
1 Big South North Carolina A&T
2 CAA Delaware, Towson
1 Horizon Youngstown State
5 MVC Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, Indiana State
2 OVC Murray State, Tennessee State
1 SoCon Chattanooga
3 SWAC Jackson State, Texas Southern (Houston market), Florida A&M
2 Summit North Dakota State, South Dakota State
5 WAC Sam Houston State, SFAU, Lamar, ACU, Tarleton State

Pick and choose.

I can see quite a few of those having reached out, but you left out UMass, who absolutely 100% reached out to CUSA to be a football-only affiliate. The AD Bramford even showed the brochure they sent to the CUSA office and member institutions in an interview he recently gave.

UMass is already FBS. This is 30 FCS schools reacing out.

According to the article in question:

Quote:Sources tell CBS Sports that Conference USA commissioner Judy MacLeod has received calls from up to 30 prospective members to fill that eighth spot.

Article doesn't say all 30 are FCS schools. With that said, UMass is likely one of them, but they wouldn't help the league retain compliance as an FBS-sponsoring conference needing 8 full members, so the 8th will likely come from FCS....or lower. I am 99% sure Division II Tarleton State has also reached out.

I wouldn't be surprised if Arlington and Little Rock from the Sun Belt are somehow counted in that 30 number, as well.

Tarleton is a member of the WAC. They are in year 2 of their move to D1 move.

Tarleton athletics was linked to CUSA by Thamel on Friday, 10/22. Later that night, they released a statement that the stadium was expanding to 20-25k in the next 18 months. The next day (10/23) they announced a football attendance over 16k. This tells me Tarleton has been in contact with CUSA.

Bringing UT-Arlington and Little Rock would be great for CUSA. It would give them two D1 teams in footprints and major media markets (although not much DMA penetration). Tarleton and UT-Arlington could be travel partners as they were 80 miles from each other.

(11-03-2021 04:28 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Full member means voting member, fully vested. ...

In this context, what matters critically is that they have to sponsor a sufficient number of sports in autobid competitions, the majority of which are sponsored by the conference:

Quote: A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference
shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the conference schedule in at least six men's and eight women's conference-sponsored sports, including men's basketball and football and three women's team sports, including women's basketball. A conference-sponsored sport shall be a sport in which regular season and/or championship opportunities are provided, consistent with the minimum standards identified by the applicable NCAA sport committee for automatic qualification. (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

... followed by the one M, one W sport out of conference exception and the two year waiver if one of those eight members falls below the total sports sponsorship requirement.

So in this context, the critical part of the full members we are talking about, the "qualifying" full members, is that they are all-sports members of the conference. They have to play FB, MBB, WBB, two more women's team sports, and a total of 6M/8W sports in autobid competitions.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-top-four/
Update:

"Conference USA is pushing hard to find an eighth member that would satisfy NCAA requirements to stay in the FBS, sources told CBS Sports. Sources indicate it is "probable" the embattled league will lose both Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee to the MAC, perhaps as early as this week, leaving Conference USA with only three existing members.

FBS independents Liberty and New Mexico State plus FCS teams Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are ready to move to Conference USA, according to multiple reports.

UConn and/or UMass have been mentioned among options for an eighth member, but for now, the league would have only seven members if it brings in the four other programs. UConn would only potentially join for football given its Big East ties in basketball and other sports.

The NCAA Manual states an FBS conference must be comprised of at least eight members that all sponsor a minimum of six men's and eight women's sports. The 14 sports must include football and men's and women's basketball...."

(Crossposting from the WACbbs)

Anyone on this board able to attend/follow the meeting and provide us updates on this board for curious minds?

The agenda includes just the one item: Consideration of a proposal for an athletic conference change

The Board of Regents of New Mexico State University will hold a Special Meeting on Friday, November 5th, 2021 at 11:00 am in the Regents Room (Room 001) in the Educational Services Building on the NMSU Las Cruces Campus, 1780 East University Avenue Las Cruces, NM. The meeting will also be available online through Zoom at https://nmsu.zoom.us/j/91425659820.

(11-03-2021 09:01 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-03-2021 04:28 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Full member means voting member, fully vested. ...

In this context, what matters critically is that they have to sponsor a sufficient number of sports in autobid competitions, the majority of which are sponsored by the conference:

Quote: A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference
shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the conference schedule in at least six men's and eight women's conference-sponsored sports, including men's basketball and football and three women's team sports, including women's basketball. A conference-sponsored sport shall be a sport in which regular season and/or championship opportunities are provided, consistent with the minimum standards identified by the applicable NCAA sport committee for automatic qualification. (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

... followed by the one M, one W sport out of conference exception and the two year waiver if one of those eight members falls below the total sports sponsorship requirement.

So in this context, the critical part of the full members we are talking about, the "qualifying" full members, is that they are all-sports members of the conference. They have to play FB, MBB, WBB, two more women's team sports, and a total of 6M/8W sports in autobid competitions.

Ahhh. This makes sense. So we were right to say UConn and UMass do not satisfy the needed 8th full member because they won't bring the required sports and number of sports to Conference USA.