(10-19-2021 02:31 AM)VCE Wrote:  I won’t donate a dollar if GU votes to add a bottom feeder like the Bonnies. Crap market, crap school, crap bball. We are the Big East and we don’t need to play RPI games like the A10, MWC or AAC.

I'm with you, adding 2 more DePauls is asinine. That doesn't make us any more TV money which is more than any ncaa credits. Adding a Saint Louis would be closer to what he proposes with a program that fits our culture, is in a large new market and bridges the gap between Creighton and the rest if the conference. I'd love for Duquesne to be in the conference but not until they fully commit to basketball and make a leap in the A-10.

From a personal and Northeast perspective I want Temple.

Based on current men's basketball performance I want Dayton.

(10-19-2021 02:47 AM)Realignment Wrote:  Saint Louis is the add.

Yeah, while I hear today’s SLU announcement is about a venue or other campaign, I won’t be surprised if it’s (finally) this about the Big East.

Whether it's Gonzaga or an alternative member, I'm fully convinced by 2025 the Big East is at 12 members. It sounds like there is a full court press between the conference, Gonzaga and Fox to try and get something done. However, SLU has made a long-term financial commitment to upgrading athletics, which is what today's later announcement will reveal. One way or another, the league will expand IMO.

As previously shared, everything has a value. The round robin, which has provided value through right now, is not as valuable anymore as other power conferences have shifted to larger leagues and formats. I would argue it was a huge boost for Butler, Creighton and Xavier to assimilate into the league, and help elevate them by perception on a more national scale.

(10-19-2021 07:16 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Whether it's Gonzaga or an alternative member, I'm fully convinced by 2025 the Big East is at 12 members. It sounds like there is a full court press between the conference, Gonzaga and Fox to try and get something done. However, SLU has made a long-term financial commitment to upgrading athletics, which is what today's later announcement will reveal. One way or another, the league will expand IMO.

The Big East doesn't need to expand and no one is leaving. More teams, more long term instability.

(10-19-2021 02:09 AM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 01:46 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I wonder. This new American is going to be horrible in basketball. Tulane, ECU and South Florida were already bad. But to that they are adding horrible UTSA, FAU and Charlotte. North Texas is not that good either. Rice has been mediocre but can jump up. Only UAB is decent.

Given that, I feel Memphis, Temple, SMU, Tulsa and Wichita State may get very antsy about hoops in the next few years.

Could Temple be asking about the Big East? The three schools west of the Mississippi (Wichita State, Tulsa, SMU) I can see talking to the MWC. If the ESPN payments to the AAC schools drop and they become a 1 1/2 bid conference, these things may come to pass.

Long winded way of saying, the Big East and Temple may become the next dance item.

The Big East has had a long-standing tradition of "You got our back and we got yours"

Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. John's and Providence will vote as one group against any school from DC, Philly, the NY/NJ metro area, or New England.

Xavier and DePaul will join them to keep out Dayton or Loyola (or Valpo)

There is no "veto-power" but it's a collective unspoken understanding.

Except when the Big East accepted Rutgers. Seton Hall had no objection?

(10-19-2021 05:22 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 02:09 AM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 01:46 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I wonder. This new American is going to be horrible in basketball. Tulane, ECU and South Florida were already bad. But to that they are adding horrible UTSA, FAU and Charlotte. North Texas is not that good either. Rice has been mediocre but can jump up. Only UAB is decent.

Given that, I feel Memphis, Temple, SMU, Tulsa and Wichita State may get very antsy about hoops in the next few years.

Could Temple be asking about the Big East? The three schools west of the Mississippi (Wichita State, Tulsa, SMU) I can see talking to the MWC. If the ESPN payments to the AAC schools drop and they become a 1 1/2 bid conference, these things may come to pass.

Long winded way of saying, the Big East and Temple may become the next dance item.

The Big East has had a long-standing tradition of "You got our back and we got yours"

Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. John's and Providence will vote as one group against any school from DC, Philly, the NY/NJ metro area, or New England.

Xavier and DePaul will join them to keep out Dayton or Loyola (or Valpo)

There is no "veto-power" but it's a collective unspoken understanding.

Except when the Big East accepted Rutgers. Seton Hall had no objection?

Granted, that happened in the days before extreme home turf protection and the need for new markets (both for TV and recruiting) became driving forces in conference decisions. Who might have been allowed into a conference 30/40/50/100 years ago has little bearing on who would be admitted now.

Rumor still seems to be swirling that the Big East will go to 12 for their next TV contract in 2025 based on what Fox desires. As has been stated, Gonzaga is the best school out there, but that won't happen due to geography.

We have concluded that Temple will be boxed out due to being in Villanova's direct backyard. Also, even though a school like Saint Louis provides a nice geographical bridge, I just don't think that they move the needle enough based on past results. I also don't see UMass being a contender based on past results and being a mere 50 miles from UConn.

That leaves Dayton, VCU, Wichita, and Memphis. Dayton would be a great fit (both geographically and from a fan perspective) and while Xavier may object to how close they are to Cincinnati, Xavier likely doesn't wield the same power as Villanova in the conference to block their add. VCU is a nice add, but some of the shine has worn off of their program. It doesn't have the sizzle that it did when Shaka was there.

So, I think that the Big East either makes a play for Wichita soon or waits another two to three years to try and lure Memphis if the Big 12 never comes calling for them.

(10-27-2021 10:38 AM)UConnHusky Wrote:  Rumor still seems to be swirling that the Big East will go to 12 for their next TV contract in 2025 based on what Fox desires. As has been stated, Gonzaga is the best school out there, but that won't happen due to geography.

We have concluded that Temple will be boxed out due to being in Villanova's direct backyard. Also, even though a school like Saint Louis provides a nice geographical bridge, I just don't think that they move the needle enough based on past results. I also don't see UMass being a contender based on past results and being a mere 50 miles from UConn.

That leaves Dayton, VCU, Wichita, and Memphis. Dayton would be a great fit (both geographically and from a fan perspective) and while Xavier may object to how close they are to Cincinnati, Xavier likely doesn't wield the same power as Villanova in the conference to block their add. VCU is a nice add, but some of the shine has worn off of their program. It doesn't have the sizzle that it did when Shaka was there.

So, I think that the Big East either makes a play for Wichita soon or waits another two to three years to try and lure Memphis if the Big 12 never comes calling for them.

I’d like to see Boston U in the Big East playing in Agganis. The Big East without a Boston school is just strange….and yes I realize BC left for the ACC.

(10-27-2021 11:03 AM)esayem Wrote:  I’d like to see Boston U in the Big East playing in Agganis. The Big East without a Boston school is just strange….and yes I realize BC left for the ACC.

For whatever reason neither BU nor Northeastern seem to want it in basketball. With BC buried in the ACC there's a huge void in Boston when it comes to college basketball that either could fill (and they certainly have the money to make it happen), but the interest just isn't there on the organizations' parts.

(10-27-2021 11:10 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 11:03 AM)esayem Wrote:  I’d like to see Boston U in the Big East playing in Agganis. The Big East without a Boston school is just strange….and yes I realize BC left for the ACC.

For whatever reason neither BU nor Northeastern seem to want it in basketball. With BC buried in the ACC there's a huge void in Boston when it comes to college basketball that either could fill (and they certainly have the money to make it happen), but the interest just isn't there on the organizations' parts.

Agreed. BU only cares about hockey. Their school and fans don't give one iota about basketball. It is a shame really. It is a great school and major hoop would elevate its brand even more. Plus, Boston!

(10-27-2021 11:10 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 11:03 AM)esayem Wrote:  I’d like to see Boston U in the Big East playing in Agganis. The Big East without a Boston school is just strange….and yes I realize BC left for the ACC.

For whatever reason neither BU nor Northeastern seem to want it in basketball. With BC buried in the ACC there's a huge void in Boston when it comes to college basketball that either could fill (and they certainly have the money to make it happen), but the interest just isn't there on the organizations' parts.

What about Holy Cross???

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

(10-27-2021 11:23 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 11:10 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 11:03 AM)esayem Wrote:  I’d like to see Boston U in the Big East playing in Agganis. The Big East without a Boston school is just strange….and yes I realize BC left for the ACC.

For whatever reason neither BU nor Northeastern seem to want it in basketball. With BC buried in the ACC there's a huge void in Boston when it comes to college basketball that either could fill (and they certainly have the money to make it happen), but the interest just isn't there on the organizations' parts.

What about Holy Cross???

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

They're out in Worcester, which is "basically Boston" in the same way that Providence (the city) is "basically Boston" (i.e. it's not). In fact, if Providence is something like Bootleg Boston, then Worcester is Bootleg Providence moreso than "a place outside Boston". Holy Cross doesn't want it either - Patriot isn't exactly a tough conference for a committed school to dominate in basketball.

Good rule of thumb - if an east coast school hasn't been so good in their low-major conference that the A-10 has been forced to add them then they won't merit even a look from the Big East.

With much respect to Wichita State, the Big East is not a fit for them. VCU and Dayton, by rumored accounts, are being blocked by Georgetown and Xavier, respectively. Gonzaga, unless an arrangement with the NCAA is made allowing a men’s basketball-only conference affiliation, isn’t happening unless Fox over-compensates them and the conference to make it work as a member.

As much as many won’t like to acknowledge or admit, SLU is in the driver’s seat for #12. Past performance won’t be the key driver in the decision making process (although SLU has been strong OOC this past decade between Majerus and Ford). It will be based on institutional fit, long-term growth opportunities, market (both TV and recruiting) and value potential. Adding a SLU wouldn’t hurt the Big East; it adds content, adds BET sessions, adds tournament bids and higher seeds (statistically), new metropolitan market, modern facilities and a basketball-first athletic department.

SLU also adds a nice East/West split for non-basketball sports, allowing easier travel for non-revenue sports (especially volleyball, soccer and softball). They get paired with Creighton, Marquette with DePaul, Butler with Xavier, UConn with Providence, St. John’s with Seton Hall and Villanova with Georgetown.

I think SLU is in the Big East by 2025. They are once again projected as a top-A10 team again this year. Trajectory is strong. Just my opinion.

(10-27-2021 11:23 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 11:10 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 11:03 AM)esayem Wrote:  I’d like to see Boston U in the Big East playing in Agganis. The Big East without a Boston school is just strange….and yes I realize BC left for the ACC.

For whatever reason neither BU nor Northeastern seem to want it in basketball. With BC buried in the ACC there's a huge void in Boston when it comes to college basketball that either could fill (and they certainly have the money to make it happen), but the interest just isn't there on the organizations' parts.

What about Holy Cross???

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

It needs to be historically strong basketball schools only on the Big East list.

I feel like a school either:
-Needs to have been in the top 25 for attendance over the past decade
-Needs to have made it to a Sweet 16 at least once (if not several times)
-Needs to have a rabid fanbase that will travel to MSG for the tournament
-Needs to already be a regular staple on linear TV broadcasts

Big East will limit their options to Gonzaga, Dayton, Saint Louis, VCU, Wichita, Temple, or Memphis. Nobody outside of this short list brings enough value to make it worth expanding.

(10-27-2021 11:55 AM)UConnHusky Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 11:23 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 11:10 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 11:03 AM)esayem Wrote:  I’d like to see Boston U in the Big East playing in Agganis. The Big East without a Boston school is just strange….and yes I realize BC left for the ACC.

For whatever reason neither BU nor Northeastern seem to want it in basketball. With BC buried in the ACC there's a huge void in Boston when it comes to college basketball that either could fill (and they certainly have the money to make it happen), but the interest just isn't there on the organizations' parts.

What about Holy Cross???

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

It needs to be historically strong basketball schools only on the Big East list.

I feel like a school either:
-Needs to have been in the top 25 for attendance over the past decade
-Needs to have made it to a Sweet 16 at least once (if not several times)
-Needs to have a rabid fanbase that will travel to MSG for the tournament
-Needs to already be a regular staple on linear TV broadcasts

Big East will limit their options to Gonzaga, Dayton, Saint Louis, VCU, Wichita, Temple, or Memphis. Nobody outside of this short list brings enough value to make it worth expanding.

I presume you’re excluding any options from the ACC, B1G, PAC, SEC, and XII. I wouldn’t rule them out in 15-20 years or so depending on how things go with NIL and other possibilities.

(10-27-2021 11:43 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  With much respect to Wichita State, the Big East is not a fit for them. VCU and Dayton, by rumored accounts, are being blocked by Georgetown and Xavier, respectively. Gonzaga, unless an arrangement with the NCAA is made allowing a men’s basketball-only conference affiliation, isn’t happening unless Fox over-compensates them and the conference to make it work as a member.

As much as many won’t like to acknowledge or admit, SLU is in the driver’s seat for #12. Past performance won’t be the key driver in the decision making process (although SLU has been strong OOC this past decade between Majerus and Ford). It will be based on institutional fit, long-term growth opportunities, market (both TV and recruiting) and value potential. Adding a SLU wouldn’t hurt the Big East; it adds content, adds BET sessions, adds tournament bids and higher seeds (statistically), new metropolitan market, modern facilities and a basketball-first athletic department.

SLU also adds a nice East/West split for non-basketball sports, allowing easier travel for non-revenue sports (especially volleyball, soccer and softball). They get paired with Creighton, Marquette with DePaul, Butler with Xavier, UConn with Providence, St. John’s with Seton Hall and Villanova with Georgetown.

I think SLU is in the Big East by 2025. They are once again projected as a top-A10 team again this year. Trajectory is strong. Just my opinion.

I agree with Wichita not being the best fit and with Georgetown wanting to exclude VCU (who aren't what they used to be anyway), SLU just doesn't do anything for me (and many of the old Big East guard probably share my opinion). I know that Dayton is close to Xavier (who would object to their addition), but Dayton brings so much more to the table for basketball than SLU. Their attendance has historically been in the top 25 for most of the last 40 years and their fans are rabid. SLU's fan base just doesn't strike me as being as exciting. Sure, they bring a large market. But as we learned from CUSA in 2013, adding schools for markets doesn't always add money. I feel like Dayton would pull in more casual fans who don't have ties to the Big East.

So, if we rule out Temple and VCU as getting blocked for overlapping territory, Wichita State for poor fit, and Gonzaga for geography, you are left with Dayton, SLU, or Memphis.

Personally, if Dayton would really be a strong objection for the conference on Xavier's behalf, I would stand pat at 11 and hope that Memphis becomes disgruntled with their new basketball situation in the AAC. Memphis may not be a great institutional fit, but if the end goal is additional revenue and top flight basketball, sometimes you have to ditch the script.

I must disagree about markets with Frank. It's about how many viewers you reach not where. So doubling down on Chicago or Philadelphia is not a bad strategy if the new school does not overlap viewers. I think definitely the case with Temple and Villanova.Temples reach is to a different fans base and also reaches into the surrounding burbs and regions of southeastern Pennsylvania. Loyola Chicago would add to the large reach of Chicago's fan base -- whether enough to justify I don't know. Both are arguably much larger audiences than Saint Louis, and certainly more than say a Davidson or Richmond would bring.

Expansion is also about who is available. Memphis is never going to de-emphasize football, so they are not available. Gonzaga is too far away, Kansas is not leaving the Big 12. Temple seems to be the one school that really fits.

Saint Louis is the best overall candidate given location, potential and institutional fit.

Dayton would be strong but Xavier would balk.

Temple, though qualified, will get pushback from Nova.

WSU and Gonzaga are bad geographic fits, with the former also not a great institutional fit.

VCU would be a solid add but I find SLU more appealing overall.

Memphis, one of my teams, would be an odd fit on various levels. But, hypothetically, the Tiger program in the Big East would be highly interesting.

(10-27-2021 12:20 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I must disagree about markets with Frank. It's about how many viewers you reach not where. So doubling down on Chicago or Philadelphia is not a bad strategy if the new school does not overlap viewers. I think definitely the case with Temple and Villanova.Temples reach is to a different fans base and also reaches into the surrounding burbs and regions of southeastern Pennsylvania. Loyola Chicago would add to the large reach of Chicago's fan base -- whether enough to justify I don't know. Both are arguably much larger audiences than Saint Louis, and certainly more than say a Davidson or Richmond would bring.

Expansion is also about who is available. Memphis is never going to de-emphasize football, so they are not available. Gonzaga is too far away, Kansas is not leaving the Big 12. Temple seems to be the one school that really fits.

I agree that Temple would be a solid add. If the Big East was going to duplicate markets, that is much more appealing to me than Loyola Chicago. Loyola just lost their coach and they play in a pretty small arena. Temple is more historically relevant and would be again if admitted to the Big East.

I don't totally agree on Memphis. If you told me at the Fiesta Bowl in 2010 that UConn was going to de-emphasize football, I would have told you that you were crazy... yet here we are. If AAC basketball starts hurting Memphis's ability to get a good tourney seed or if the conference is barely getting two bids, a basketball crazed school like Memphis will get restless. If for any reason they can't sustain their current level of success in football and the wins and attendance start dwindling, you just never know what they may consider in an effort to save the sport that they have been the most historically good at playing.